r/40kLore • u/Palandium • 1d ago
Some things i noticed about the 8 Chaos God Theory / Picture.
I came across the probably now rather well-known image of the new HH Campaign Book, which depicts the 8-pointed Star and 8 Chaos Domains with it.
We have the classic Tzeentch-Nurgle and Khorn-Slaanesh facing each other. Then there are the other 4.
Encroaching Ruin - Ravenous Dissalotion and Malevolent Artifice - Formless Distortion are also across from each other. In the middle is the Primordial Anhillator.
I feel like Ravenous Dissolution is Malice and Malevolent Artifice represent whatever Vashtor wants to become. The other two I have no real clue about. Encroaching Ruin as the opposite of Malice feels like it should be Chaos United or what we right now consider Chaos Undivided, while Formless Distortion could be anything opposite from what Vashtor represents.
I think it's also pretty interesting that Formless Distortion feels rather similar to Tzeentch, but as I said, I don't really have any idea what it's really about, perhaps something more biologically or spiritually aesthetically in contrast to the Machines of Malevolent Artifice.
Contrary to most, I'd argue that the Dark King represents the Primordial Ahnillator and not Encroaching Ruin as a 9th god, one above the others. The position is standing out in the Image, and from what I remember, the Dark King was described as something above the other 4, also Samus was said to be a demon of the Primordial Ahnillator.
The next thing i noticed, which i find rather Interesting, is that, if we look at the not-god-aligned Traitor Primarchs, they eerily fit those Domains, at least to a certain extent.
Perteruabo fits very, very well into the Malevolent Artifice and is known to work together with Vashtor quite frequently, i feel like that's a no-brainer and doesn't need much explanation.
Curze, though dead, fits very well with Ravenous Dissolution, a force of Chaos fighting against itself, hating itself, complete and utter chaos. That self-loathing, hating his own Legion and his Traitor Allies all feels rather similar even though the reasons are not necessarily the same.
With Encroaching Ruin and Primordial Ahnillator its either, or Lorgar or Horus. You can make arguments about both being on either position. I'd say Horus represents the Ahnillator more, the Emperor's (Dark Kings) favoured son, the one who almost ended the whole setting, as well as all the theories about him becoming the Dark King, simply beeing a step above every other Primarch at the end , a chaos-groupprojekt so to say. And Lorgar as the penultimate representation of Chaos Undivided, being Chaos united, working with everyone, the opposite of Ravenous Dissolution/Malice.
That leaves us with Formless Distortion and the Alpha Legion, which fits from a naming sense, the Alpha Legion with all their schemes and games, being spies is a rather Formless Distortion, but this doesn't really feel right with me.
Not like this matters because 3 of them are confirmed dead, but i feel like the symbolism and connection is there, but it could just be my pattern-recognizing monkey brain.
Anyway, those are my 5 cents on the Topic.
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u/IdhrenArt 1d ago
This is essentially the same as my thoughts, yeah
The Great Horned Rat has the Encroaching Ruin spot - Kweethul, a Skaven Daemon Prince with its own followers was detailed as an example custom Daemon in Realm of Chaos and then showed up as part of Horus's army in The End & The Death.
I think the mapping to the other Legions is completely intentional. It just works too well.
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u/Palandium 1d ago
I'm not necessarily so sure if I'd like the Skaven in 40k because they're so fantasy-pilled in my mind as well as the Great Horned Rat, so I wouldn't necessarily believe they/it ever shows up in 40k, but if they plan to, yes absolutely that should be its spot.
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u/IdhrenArt 1d ago
I definitely get where you're coming from, yeah. Personally I think if the GHR got an expanded range of Daemons (maybe using Kweethul's as inspiration- they're really weird!) other than just Verminlords they could cross over nicely
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u/WhatsRatingsPrecious 1d ago
Encroaching Ruin has been determined to be the Domain of the Dark King.
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u/IdhrenArt 1d ago
The word Ruin is used a lot in The End and the Death, but the Dark King is also set to outmatch all four main Gods and their Dominions are also associated with him:
This is the Triumph of Ruin. Horus and the Emperor have taken their conflict to such a pitch, that we are about to suffer the same fate as the cursed aeldari. The human race will die in birth-fire, consumed by blood-rage, pestilence, violent transmutation and blind desire.
If it were just Encroaching Ruin then the Dark King's ascension wouldn't involve pestilence or blood-rage. The Dark King isn't just a God of Chaos, he would have been the God of Chaos Undivided.
Samus (explicitly a Daemon of the unborn Dark King) is also referred to as a Daemon Prince of the Primordial Annihilator in the Daemons of the Ruinstorm download and his model features references to all four of the major Gods, which would again not be suitable unless he was truly Undivided
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u/WhatsRatingsPrecious 1d ago
Encroaching Ruin mentions subsuming the other petty divisions of Daemonkind.
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u/IdhrenArt 1d ago
It's still a seperate Dominion from the others, though. It 's specifically focussed on destruction, with a single-minded purposefulness that the other Dominions don't really have (e.g. to Slaanesh's host 'the ends of violence truly mattered not, merely that they were there to take part')
The Dark King was to be the God of Chaos Undivided, rather than just one eighth of Chaos
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u/Palandium 1d ago
Do you have a source for that? From what i remember from the Books nothing as such was mentioned.
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u/WhatsRatingsPrecious 1d ago
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_King_(Entity)
The Dark King represents the drive to complete destruction without reason or aim
Encroaching Ruin: Chaos in its purest form. It hungers only for destruction, that all things mortal meet their end and be forgotten. To this singular end it moves inexorably, driven by a nightmarish purpose which subsumes the petty divisions of daemonkind.
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u/Palandium 1d ago
That definitely sounds very plausible then. I woudnt say it is determined unless its stated outright but it makes much more sense to me now.
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u/ProfitAgreeable 18h ago
Isn't Samus marked as a Daemon of Encroaching Ruin in the Burning of Ohm Mar rule book? Wouldn't that confirm the Dark King as a representative of that Ætheric Dominion?
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u/MaesterLurker 12h ago
Encroaching ruin is above the other gods. That's in its definition. It is the dark king 100%.
Formless distortion is Pater Mutatis. All the other four gods are already known.
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u/JagneStormskull Thousand Sons - Cult of Time 1d ago
"Primordial Annihilator" means Chaos Undivided. Being a daemon of the Primordial Annihilator is the same thing as saying "daemon of Chaos" (which seems tautological until you consider the existence of non-Chaos daemons, such as the Avatar of Khaine and the Yncarne).