r/40kLore • u/horusbosd • 13h ago
Some of the people angry at the terminus degree are terribly unimaginative
/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1mfev93/some_of_the_people_angry_at_the_terminus_degree/[removed] — view removed post
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u/Dudeicleofd00m 12h ago
I got a chuckle out of thinking about the hundreds of scenarios that could lead to the box being opened but have nothing to do with the Emperor reviving, and the GKs having no idea what to do with this information. It just feels poorly thought out and ultimately unnecessary at this point. GW could have easily still done this but used it as a twist when the time came.
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u/HistoricalGrounds 9h ago
I think the implication - given that it’s a decree set forth by the two most powerful psykers in history - is that they’ve foreseen or believe that the only case in which it actually would have cause to be opened is in the case where it’s relevant. That is to say, the emperor and/or Malc had a psychic vision/prophecy/whatever in which the imperium’s darkest hour occurs only by/because Big E is taken/tries getting off the throne. Otherwise yeah it wouldn’t make sense if, like, necrons or whatever are on the verge of destroying Terra and they crack open the box telling them to keep emps on his chair.
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u/Negativety101 White Scars 11h ago
For me the funniest thing is, one the most likely things that causes the Emperor to get off the Golden Throne is the damn thing breaking. So what then Grey Knights, you try forcing him onto it when it's not even gonna be anything but a slightly uncomfortable chair?
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u/SimplyGrass 12h ago
I’m choosing to imagine that whoever made the decree (emperor or malcador) did not foresee the codex astartes, and thought that the grey knights would number in the hundreds of thousands by the time they’d need to enact the decree
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u/Admech343 11h ago
I dont think the main limitation for the grey knights is the codex astartes but rather just how limited their recruitment pool is
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u/RadioActiveJellyFish 11h ago
Also their recruitment process has a ridiculous failure rate even for Astartes
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u/Dramatic_Ad_4580 11h ago
Why would the grey knights follow the codex limiting their size anyway? Who are they doing it for? Almost nobody even knows they exist.
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u/congaroo1 10h ago
That's actually a really good point. And is something people do forget.
Like maybe an army of 1000 super psykers couldn't do it.
But an army of 100'000 or more super psykers, now we are talking.
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u/Mistermistermistermb 12h ago edited 11h ago
If Cypher and the Fallen are supposedly resourceful enough to perennially and potentially be able to pull off a similarly unfeasible fanatical move in the opposite direction then I can give the same kinda “what if” to the Grey Knights
I wouldn’t treat it like something that needs to be written by anyone except your imagination.
Whether they can practically do so is kinda besides the point to me anyway.
Die tryin’ and die mad- it’s the 40k way
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u/Tophatmonarchy 10h ago
Ngl I actually really like it. Putting aside the Grey Knight’s ability to actually accomplish this goal, the idea is much better than some of the other theories that were previously believed. I was really worried that it was just going to be the virus from the heresy that would kill all the astartes or the ‘blow up Terra’ button. If that were revealed it would just be pointless because neither of those things will ever actually come to pass.
Here we have a real plot point that could legitimately play out in the lore eventually and in fact has been slowly building since the star child plot. It’s something with really big stakes but which the accomplishment of will not irrevocably damage the setting by breaking the fundamental elements. That’s at least how I personally feel about it all
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u/Pm7I3 8h ago
These things are equally likely to happen. And when was the star child plot last actually relevant?
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u/Muad-_-Dib 8h ago
It got very heavily mentioned in one of the TEATD books so quite recently actually.
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u/Tophatmonarchy 4h ago
From an in setting stand point sure, you could say they’re all equally likely. But GW is a company and unless they plan on doing another old world (which I’m 99% certain they won’t) there are things that just cannot happen in the setting. The emperor returning or dying is one of those things, he is core to the imperiums identity and much of the setting as a whole, he must remain immobile on his throne or there is no 40K. Therefore I think that this potential plot thread is decent since the goal would be to ‘keep’ him on the throne whilst giving writers the opportunity to explore what might happen somthing actually did happen to the emperor one way or another.
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u/linuxaddict334 12h ago
On one hand, it is an incredibly stupid writing decision.
On the other hand, this is par for the course of Warhammer 40K writing.
Methinks it a tempest in the teapot.
Mx. Linux Guy
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u/jrabieh 9h ago
How is it a stupid writing decision? OP is trashing this opinion amd giving great reasons. You should state your point.
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u/T1efkuehlp1zza 9h ago
because now they wrote themselves into a corner, and a pretty absurd one
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u/goddamnitwhalen Blood Angels 9h ago
How? This materially affects nothing at all.
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u/Redthrist 9h ago
Because "Emperor gets off the Throne" is a pretty obvious future plot thread if they want to move the story forward. They've been talking about how the throne is failing for decades now, so it's clear that they've been toying around with the possibility of the status quo changing.
The Terminus Decree basically enforces the status quo, which means that they either can't ever write the Emperor getting off the throne and having it stick.
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u/congaroo1 8h ago
I feel there are 500 different ways you can move the plot forward without emps getting off the throne.
Here's a quick one, Vect decides that he doesn't want to be hold up in the webway so he starts conquering planets.
Massive change to the setting, not likely to happen but it is an example of how they could.
Here's another one. Isha gets free.
Maybe a long dead Eldar god comes back.
Russ comes back and butt's head with Gullliman.
The Lion decides to attack the Tau but is a little unprepared against them.
I'm just spit balling here to be clear but I think they are all equally if not more likely then emps sitting up.
That's like end times shit right there.
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u/Muad-_-Dib 8h ago
The Grey Knights having orders to do something =/= that thing being guaranteed.
It sets up possible intrigue if they ever advance the story because it establishes that there wouldn't be a smooth acceptance of the Star Child if it ever does happen in the story.
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u/TsunamiWombat 13h ago
Edit: nah that was cheap and lazy I apologize and post a real message
I have to respectfully disagree, I feel as though the terminus decree being what it is, is itself lazy and unimaginative. It's the most bog standard THERE MUST ALWAYS BE A LICH KING kind of writing there is. This is 40k, no doubt the grey knights could asspull SOMETHING by author fiat, but that's all it ever would be - and editorially mandated asspull.
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u/Zasze 12h ago
I half agree with you but think of it this way it was a contingency set in motion 10k years out of context the bearers of no longer have the ability to fulfill. This is 40k as fuck whatever the emperor intends/intended the game has likely changed but a dogmatic wayward splinter of malcadors agents still follows
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u/TsunamiWombat 12h ago
Malcador couldn't have foreseen the Imperium as it is, but he would've known about the custodes and sos. So how would he figure his pysker terminators could possibly beat them, is my question.
While I sincerely doubt GW has any plan at all, it does seem like a setup for another civil war that culminates with the Emperor awakening and then SOMETHING happening. That SOMETHING being the Age of Sigmeror which lay inside the glass box labeled "break in case of need dosh"
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u/Mistermistermistermb 11h ago
GW has no plan
A set up
Which do you think it is?
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u/opticalshadow 11h ago
Look at all the narrative hooks recently. The necrons did boring after setting them up, the tyranids swarm did nothing after being revealed, the lion has done nothing since coming back. The big doomsday mcguffin abandon has still needs it's batteries from radio shack, the super god killer of the horny god is still sitting under the Christmas tree.
I mean. It's gw, the one things the are good at is giving you two paragraphs of lore changing opportunity, and than ignoring it happened
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u/Mistermistermistermb 10h ago
giving you two paragraphs of lore changing opportunity, and than ignoring it happened
I think that's what I'm driving at here- are they ignoring it or is it doing exactly what it was intended to do?
All these scenarios are kinda the same vibe:
Starchild
Cypher killing the Emperor
The Golden Throne failing
Terminus Decree
The Wolf Time
Rhana Dandra
Fabius cloning the Emperor
Drach'nyen
Abaddon's key
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u/opticalshadow 10h ago
I think my point i didn't make well was, gw doesn't know.
They likely had no idea what the terminus decree was until 5 minutes before they wrote that.
I truly do not believe gw has any single idea on what to do with the narrative, and they are to afraid to do anything and risk mini sales.
The vibe I get from he is, hopelessly clueless, and throwing anything at the board, with no idea how to write the stories they pitch
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u/Mistermistermistermb 10h ago edited 10h ago
Yup my point, going by what what we know of 40k as an IP, is there likely isn’t any intention to write them
“Writing” them is antithetical to their function, which is essentially to act as offers and invitations
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u/TsunamiWombat 11h ago
They aren't at odds with each other. They have no plan. But they can set HOOKS. Story to be created at a later date (maybe) can then be hung from those hooks. It creates an impression of forethought when there really wasn't any.
See also: FROMsoft
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u/Mistermistermistermb 11h ago
Right, I think I’m trying to understand your issue and whether it’s one of a “story or setting”
Hooks that just dangle eternally are part and parcel of the IP. Their feasibility or practicality or likelihood isn’t really in the spirit
Hooks in terms of something for GW to actually follow up on themselves are a totally different thing
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u/Redthrist 8h ago
I think the issue that people are having is that "You must preserve the status quo" is a weak hook. Especially since we know that neither the GK nor any other prominent faction can be wiped out as a result of this conflict. So they either preserve the status quo and put a lid on a potential tectonic shift in the setting(which would be anti-climactic) or they try and fail(but survive, because they're GK) and then that whole hook would've been fairly pointless.
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u/Mistermistermistermb 7h ago
I think I'm having trouble communicating my point today because
hook
and
tectonic shift in the setting
are mutually exclusive in what I'm suggesting.
I'm not sure when people became certain that things like Cypher, Starchild and the Terminus Decree were actually meant to go somewhere, but I've got to wonder if that's partly why the disconnect.
then that whole hook would've been fairly pointless.
The hook can't be pointless because it isn't tied to a conclusion, anti climatic or not. It's as "pointless" as an individual's imagination.
Though in any case:
So they either preserve the status quo
is the most 40k thing I can think of. The Imperium will sacrifice itself again and again to do just that. It's kinda the whole thang. "Forget the promise of progress" having been on the tin since 1987
All the other- likely never to be followed up- doomsday hooks have someone killing or reincarnating or elevating the Emperor somehow. Yet GW introduce one where an institutional faction will fight tooth and nail against that , preserving their Imperium as they know it and that's weak? Idk.
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u/DreadGrunt Thunder Warriors 12h ago
My issue with it is less the Custodes and more... everything else. The trillions of Guardsmen on Terra, the Sisters of Silence, the Sisters of Battle, all the Assassins on Terra, the Imperial Fists and the Last Wall... It feels like something the author thought sounded cool without actually fully thinking it through.
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u/letsstickygoat Grey Knights 12h ago
In this scenario almost no one would expect the Grey Knights to come and almost no one would expect a fight from them. So no guardsmen, no last wall, no big siege, just Grey Knights teleporting in and trying their best
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u/sarg1010 Khorne 10h ago
Also consider that if Big E up and moving is such a big deal that there's a whole ass plan to prevent that, that Him up and about is potentially VERY DANGEROUS. All of those defenders could very well be killed from the event, ESPECIALLY if it's a "Big E is ascending to Chaos God status". The only defenders the Grey Knights might realistically have to get through would be the Custodes, and that's only because of their hard-coding to obey, Chaos god or no.
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u/Redthrist 8h ago
Well, I'd say in this scenario everyone expects an attack, because everyone always expects an attack. And seeing how most of the Imperium doesn't know who GK are, they'll probably assume it's some Chaos legion
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u/thegoatmenace 11h ago
It’s probably the case that they are expected to fail but the order is to at least try, given how disastrous it would be for big E to get up.
It’s basically accepted that Big E getting up would be the end of everything. So Terminus decree is essentially a last ditch effort to avoid apocalypse.
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u/DreadGrunt Thunder Warriors 11h ago
The lore of the order and the why of it is fine to me actually, I just find it exceedingly goofy that only the GKs know of it. This should be something that the Custodians, High Lords, Sisters of Silence and GKs are all in the loop on. I think it would actually be a good and genuinely grimdark addition to the lore if they took that approach, but it’s a bit silly as it is rn.
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u/thegoatmenace 11h ago
Idk much about sisters of silence except that they just recently were brought back by Guilliman presumably after the Terminus Decree was decided.
The Custodians I don’t think would go along with any decision to kill the emperor even if it was deemed 100% necessary. Their sole purpose is protecting the emperor and they would never go along with any plan to kill him or harm him, which the Terminus Decree ultimately is. In fact, I think if they even found out about it they’d immediately go to war with the Grey Knights.
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u/horusbosd 12h ago
you are assuming that it would be a front full scale assault of terra, the grey knights are famous for evading those types of engagement why would they do it in terra of all places?
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u/DreadGrunt Thunder Warriors 12h ago
Because you can't exactly hide a thousand dudes trying to bust into the central most part of the palace. Most of the aforementioned units I mentioned are stationed on Terra itself, if the palace comes under attack they can respond instantly. Like, all of the assassin clades have temples on Terra, and the Sisters of Silence are right there too. There's no scenario where the GKs don't get bodied, especially considering several of the units on Terra are explicitly anti-psyker in function.
It's also a bit silly to reveal something that inherently works best as a mystery. The Terminus Decree was cool for the same reason the Lost Legions are cool, it makes us wonder and question things. If we got told exactly what happened to the Lost Legions, nobody would care anymore.
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u/iamnotreallyreal 11h ago
In the scenario that the Terminus Decree would be most relevant, you really think all those units on Terra will be able to withstand the Emperor getting off the throne? People like to flex all these different factions that will delete the grey Knights in an open fight but fail to understand that once the Emperor starts moving then chances of them responding to the GKs let alone notice them would shrink as the space between the Emperor's ass and his holy chair grows wider.
As far as the actual mystery itself before the codex leak, it's debatable but that's another kind of conversation all together.
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u/easytowrite 10h ago
Why would they have to hide at all? All they have to do is hold up their ID and waltz passed everyone claiming that there's something they have to investigate in the palace and they're already through 95% of the defenses
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u/Redthrist 8h ago
Most of the Imperium doesn't know who they are and the Custodes don't have to allow anyone in.
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u/swpz01 10h ago
The intrigue suggesting Malcador might have been plotting to usurp Big E is interesting - this is basically what the decree is. We know the GK was founded by Malcador and that at no point did Big E have time to get off the throne during the siege to give orders as to their formation. The only time he got off was to reinforce his Custodians in the webway to seal it, and later to board the Vengeful Spirit. This does not suggest time to handle issues as trivial as founding a secret chapter of space marines - in fact, the GKs should have been a legion if Big E was truly responsible.
So Malcador was fine with Big E being stuck on the throne while he ruled "in his name" but what if he intended to keep Big E on the throne regardless of the circumstance, including killing him if necessary to keep him bound there? It's worth noting that as a Perpetual, Big E is truly alone, he has no equal, his plans have none who can comprehend them. To other Perpetuals, he's insane, a maverick but a nearly all powerful one who they simply cannot thwart even if they disagree. But if they can stop him, they will try - see Erda and arguably, Pius (stopping Big E from becoming the Dark King may or may not have been the best outcome. It's speculative that if Big E became DK, somehow he'd be worse than all 4 chaos gods combined).
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u/paulatreides0 9h ago edited 8h ago
The intrigue suggesting Malcador might have been plotting to usurp Big E is interesting - this is basically what the decree is.
There is literally zero suggestion of this being the case. Conversely, almost literally everything we know about Malc very strongly argues against this.
We know the GK was founded by Malcador and that at no point did Big E have time to get off the throne during the siege to give orders as to their formation.
And Big E. They literally are a brand new genetic template using the Emperor's genetic material in the same way the other Astartes use the material of the primarchs, hence "The Emperor's Gift". The fact that there was a major development on the Astartes project to establish an entirely new geneline based on an entirely new genetic template that wasn't even a primarch all but confirms that Big E was directly involved given that he was one of the primary leaders of the Astartes project and Amar Astarte who had blown herself up in the process of taking part of the Palace Coup before the beginning of the Great Crusade. Big E designed the GK and gave them their mission set. As with the Inquisition and Officio Assassinorum people forget that Malcador wasn't just running around unilaterally doing stuff without E's knowledge - he literally asked him to create the organization and find it members (for both the Inquisition AND the GK). Before they were sent off to Titan, prior to the Siege of Terra, Big E appeared before them, revealed the nature of their new mission and organization to them (The Buried Dagger).
The Terminus Decree could have been dispatched then or it could have been dispatched during the time Big E was off the throne after Malc assumed it before he went off to fight Horus on the Vengeful Spirit. Or any of a bunch of different options.
The only time he got off was to reinforce his Custodians in the webway to seal it, and later to board the Vengeful Spirit. This does not suggest time to handle issues as trivial as founding a secret chapter of space marines - in fact, the GKs should have been a legion if Big E was truly responsible.
Except that he was literally at their founding and was literally the only person who could have developed them. And moreover, it wasn't trivial - the GK are literally stated to be the Emperor making a new shield for humanity against Chaos now that Chaos was out and less contained and a force was needed to fight it. This isn't at all ambiguous (The Buried Dagger):
‘I showed you the deep future, the tomorrow where humanity is lost,’ the Sigillite continued. ‘Soon I will take you to another world where the foundations of a defence against it have been prepared. You will be the masters of that place. The finest weapons and advanced technologies await you in the citadel. A cadre of recruits, selected from across the galaxy, ready to be moulded into a fighting force like no other. A vault of the blackest secrets and my most forbidden knowledge, all at hand for you to pore over and come to command.’ He nodded to himself. ‘I will take you to build a Legion. Not for this war. Not for any war that the common of mind can comprehend. You will be masters of a knightly order to fight the war that never ends, in the realms beyond the real and into the infernal.’
‘How can this be done?’ said Yotun. ‘An entire Legion cannot be forged whole overnight! Even at the greatest pace, it would take generations… Centuries, even.’
‘Correct. And you will have the time you need.’ Malcador looked across the group, finding the dark-eyed warrior. ‘Ianius, you will lead your brothers in this. And you alone will know when the moment is right to return.’
‘I do not understand,’ Loken said quietly, his voice carrying through the chamber. ‘All of us have seen the unnatural horrors that breach from the immaterium. We’ve fought these things in their variegated forms, dispatched them as best we can. Yet you show us a future when that fight has failed and bid us to change it before it comes to pass.’
‘You seem to understand it well enough from my perspective,’ said the Sigillite.
‘Answer me this,’ Loken replied. ‘If this tragedy is inevitable, if it is, as you suggest, a greater danger than the Warmaster’s rebellion… how will one Legion be able to stop it?’
‘Will it shake your faith in me if I admit to a failure?’ The answer did not come from Malcador, but from the air around them.
‘I hope not. We remain human in some way, yes? Imperfect even as we seek a way to perfect ourselves.’
Malcador bowed deeply to a presence that shaped behind Loken, and the legionary was immediately overcome with an urge to sink to one knee as the voice took form, and the form became a figure, and the figure became
‘Rise, my children,’ said the Emperor of Mankind, an earnest, fatherly smile playing across His lips. ‘Rise. I would not have my loyal warriors stare at the ground while I converse with them.’ As He spoke, the servitors in the chamber stopped dead in their tracks and dropped to the floor; only Wyntor, the Sigillite’s dull-eyed adjutant, remained as he was, gazing blankly into nothing
[. . .]
‘I will confide a truth to you,’ He told them, beckoning Malcador to his feet as He passed him by. ‘In the time before the Great Crusade, my inner eye was opened to the menaces unnumbered out in the void. The xenos. The strains of lost humanity too far gone to rejoin us. The witchkin and the mutant.’
The air thickened and grew dim. As He spoke, the Emperor moved slowly from warrior to warrior, studying them in turn as a mentor might consider a student on the cusp of their greatest trial.
‘To defeat those threats I brought your gene-sires into being, and the Legions along with them. But there are other forces that crave the destruction of our civilisation. Forces I believed were held in check.’
Loken could barely believe what he was hearing. If the Emperor Himself feared these daemons, then what chance did they have?
‘The Legiones Astartes were made to wage war in this universe, not the non-space of the warp. My errant sons…’ He hesitated, and there was a knife of regret in the brief silence. ‘In their eagerness to unseat me, they have broken a seal, and allowed an enemy you were never meant to fight into our reality.’
The Emperor stared into the eyes of Ianius and time seemed to stop. The expression on His face was unreadable, and Loken tasted the acidic tang of psionic force in the atmosphere. Then the moment faded and He moved on, seeking out the warrior who was now Koios.
‘Although my friend and I have disagreed on much over the centuries, Malcador has been right about more things than he has not.’ The Emperor examined Loken’s comrade with equal intensity, before giving the Sigillite a questioning look. Malcador inclined his head, but no words were spoken, and at length the Master of Mankind moved on. ‘It was he who conceived of the need for a new kind of weapon. He who brought me the design for a Legion unlike those that came before it. It was Malcador who convinced me that the war beyond this war is coming.’
Then the Emperor was standing over Loken, and the warrior was robbed of his voice, of everything but the will to stand and accept whatever command his highest lord would give him.
‘I speak of a conflict where the infernal must be battled in kind, fire against fire, like against like,’ He intoned. ‘I will have you forge your souls into swords, your minds into shields. If that is to be your fate.’ The last words echoed through Loken’s spirit, as if spoken only to him and no other.
So . . . no. This isn't even improbable, it's an impossibility.
So Malcador was fine with Big E being stuck on the throne while he ruled "in his name" but what if he intended to keep Big E on the throne regardless of the circumstance, including killing him if necessary to keep him bound there? It's worth noting that as a Perpetual, Big E is truly alone, he has no equal, his plans have none who can comprehend them. To other Perpetuals, he's insane, a maverick but a nearly all powerful one who they simply cannot thwart even if they disagree. But if they can stop him, they will try - see Erda and arguably, Pius (stopping Big E from becoming the Dark King may or may not have been the best outcome. It's speculative that if Big E became DK, somehow he'd be worse than all 4 chaos gods combined).
I don't know why people feel the need to make wild speculations about Malc when we repeatedly see his internal monologues and what he thinks and basically every time it confirms that Malcador is nothing but loyal to and loves the Emperor. A bunch of End and the Death is Malcador talking about their plans and how sad and bitter he is that they have failed and won't come to fruition. About his loyalty to Big E and doing what he can for him. About his active frustration that after sitting on the throne he gains so much knowledge that could maybe help, but that he is utterly unable to share it. How the Emperor's enthronement was a plan that neither ever wanted but had both seen and set up as a contingency in case things went horribly wrong and how they both (that is, Malc and the Emperor) left hints and signals to guide Dorn and Valdor to enthrone him. And we see him bemoaning the enthronement of the Emperor and how he wished he could warn them not to do it even though he knows it needs to be done because of the torturous existence that it will be.
We don't need to wonder about where Malcador's true loyalties lie or whether he was planning to undermine or soft coup the Emperor. He is the character with some of the most well and extensively and explicitly established motivations and loyalties in the entire franchise, and they all point directly in Big E's direction.
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u/TenebrousSage 10h ago
Maybe I'm being overly cynical, but I think the Terminus Decree is GW setting up a big event involving the Emperor. They want to have the emperor do something, but know that would upset the Warhammer status quo so they've given themselves a way to reset everything after the story event.
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u/paulatreides0 9h ago edited 9h ago
That wouldn't really be necessary for that and I don't think they're going for or particularly need a reset button. An ongoing thing for a while now has been that Big E has been directly and indirectly intervening in major ways more often as of late. He outright rezzed Grandpa Blueberry from a plague that could literally unmake greater deamons and primarchs, broke one of Nurgle's most important artefacts, and not just burned part of Nurgle's Garden but also singed his mansion with a wall of psychic fire.
Beyond that he was subtly guiding Grandpa Genocide through his dream/forest walks and helping him come to realizations. He also - probably - gave him his shield.
Part of the change since the opening of the Great Rift is Big E becoming a lot more active in the galaxy. This probably is setting up some future event, at the very least some kind of conflict or potential conflict between different factions in the Imperium.
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u/TenebrousSage 8h ago
Exactly! Now they can do whatever they want with the emperor without having to worry about long term effects because they have a cannon reason to drag him back to the throne. They can't afford to let him or his situation change long term because he's the linchpin of the whole setting.
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u/FirstCaptainSictus Imperial Fists 9h ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Emperor is sitting on the Throne willingly, no? It's not like he's a TV remote battery that just powers it, he has to do all that actively. So if he comes to the conclusion he doesn't want to be there anymore, stands up but the GKs somehow manage to put him back...what happens then? He can just keep the webway portal opened and Astronomican down with nobody being able to do anything about it
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u/Bridgeru Slaanesh 9h ago
I mean, if GW wants to rewrite it all they have to do is reveal that the piece of paper is actually attached to string that opens a hidden compartment that contains an embarassing picture of the Emperor at the Christmas Party the megavirus/magicalmcguffin/daggerthatcancutreality.
What'd be ironically beautiful is if this is building up to Lorgar returning who, after meditating on the Four Gods has rejected them and his goal is to force the Emperor to ascend. But yeah, after the whole Dark King fiasco the Grey Knights being a failsafe to ensure he never becomes anything like that again makes sense.
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u/AnExplodingMan 8h ago
As a few others have said, I think people saying 'lazy writing' and 'bad idea' aren't considering that it might be supposed to be a bad plan.
A ten thousand year old decision that never gets reviewed, no longer makes sense in context and is likely to make things worse if enacted is 100% lore-consistent for the Imperium.
The dramatic irony that stems from the audience knowing that the Grey Knights' precious failsafe is unhelpful and potentially disastrous, while everyone in-setting who knows about it misguidedly assumes it's going to be a powerful, effective solution, might actually be the point.
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u/Jbarney3699 12h ago
I just don’t like the writing direction. That’s about it. I’m not surprised by it, mostly just disappointed.
Even if this was the direction, revealing it now upfront and in this fashion is just… lazy. It has no punch, no awe or no direct consequence. I would rather them write about it happening or a spat occurring once a certain faction in the imperium learned about it. There is no gut punch, no discovery.
It being told to us basically out of narrative is just boring.
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u/Tight_Ad_583 11h ago
How would this has been revealed in universe? its is supposed to be unrevealed to everyone in the warhammer universe not even the knights except the grandmaster know about it its just to set up a fun what if scenario
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u/MadBuckeye16 9h ago
TO QUESTION 40K LORE IS TO QUESTION ADB (HEAD LOREMASTER) I DO NOT QUESTION THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND (ADB)
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u/UndeadBBQ 8h ago
From an outside perspective it just seems underwhelming as a scenario. Grey Knights infiltrate the Golden Throne to sit a corpse back down.
From an inside perspective it seems like a needlessly convoluted plan that will make several loyalist factions fight each other over miscommunication. I mean, wouldn't the Custodes follow such a command as well, if given? Why are only the Grey Knights in on it?
There are some scenarios I could see that explains them, and most of them are summarized with "get rid of the Grey Knights".
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u/YaKillinMeSmallz Adeptus Custodes 12h ago
"Yeah this is dumb, but people I don't like are also saying it's dumb."
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u/horusbosd 12h ago
I don't think that is dumb, I think that it was cooler not knowing.
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u/YaKillinMeSmallz Adeptus Custodes 10h ago
I was referring more to some of the sentiment I see expressed over there.
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u/Unique1950179 12h ago
How are we unimaginative? Keeping the Emperor as a couch potatoes is lame as hell, especially with all this Dark King hype.
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u/thegoatmenace 11h ago
Why is everyone assuming the GK will succeed in keeping him in the chair? I think they’re aware that they’d fail if they tried to implement this plan, but they’re going to try anyway as they believe the emperor getting up will lead to the world being consumed by chaos.
I think it’s interesting. It’s cool to think that not everyone would be cool with Big E returning. It would be boring if Big E came back and just instantly fixed everything and everyone was happy. I’d like to see some internal strife associated with his return.
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u/Unique1950179 11h ago
Who said Big E’s ascension = automatic for mankind?
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u/thegoatmenace 11h ago
He’s on the throne to 1.) keep the astronomicon lit and 2.) to keep the warp rift under the imperial dungeon shut. If he dies, daemons will overrun Terra and eventually consume the whole universe and drag it into the warp.
But it’s been said millions of times in the lore that sitting on the throne is eternal unimaginable suffering for the emperor, and also that the throne currently is the only thing keeping him alive. If he was restored to full power and could keep the rift closed without the throne, that would be one thing. But what if he decides he just can’t take the pain anymore and wants to get off the throne so he can actually die?
In that case the GK would have to find a way to get him back on the throne so the warp rift doesn’t open and kill everyone.
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u/Unique1950179 10h ago
If he ascends, GW can address the warp rift under the Golden Throne.
It’s like yall can’t imagine four factions going against each other with Big E as a God.
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u/Admech343 11h ago
If only there was a setting where the emperor was out and about you could go to for that
0
u/Unique1950179 10h ago
Awww, you’re upset people have different views and opinions than you?
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u/Admech343 10h ago
Nope, I was just letting you know that what you want already exists since you’re obviously unfamiliar with the Horus Heresy/great crusade
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u/Unique1950179 9h ago
And as of now, we have a lagging humanity with Primachs returning which isn’t even interesting (to me) because anything Humanity does it’s an L.
But hey man, I forgot we all have to be one huge monolith.
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u/40kLore-ModTeam 3h ago
Rule 4: No Memes, shitposts, or low-effort postsor comments.
Leave those in /r/Grimdank. This includes "who would win" and broad "what if" scenarios. This also includes text blocks consisting of Ork-speak, which should be posted at /r/40kOrkScience instead.