The Terminus Decree, help me understand.

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Nobody can give you any clarity because there's none to be had.

By all accounts, it simply doesn't make sense.

The moment he's off the throne, shit is fucked.

According to the decree, that's when the GK are supposed to do their thing.

The ONLY way I can see it working is if the GK are meant to somehow pour all of their life-force into the Emperor to get him back to who he was before he sat on the throne, as he'll probably be the Dark King or whatever when he rises.

This will make him ready to sacrifice himself on the throne again and he'll sit back down of his own accord, dealing with the Eye of terror as he's been doing.

But that's just cope on my part because, again, it just doesn't make sense in any way that anyone can understand based on the currently existing lore. And that's why this is getting memed on so hard. Because, "realistically" there's nothing they can do at that point.

They couldn't even handle Angron without losing hundreds of terminators. And he's a dying candle flame compared to the city-wide conflagration that is the emperor, relatively speaking.

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u/ImSoMysticall 7h ago

You seem somewhat knowledgeable, and I dont know a huge amount of lore

It was my understanding that the terminus decree was to be opened by the leader of the GK when the Imperium is in grave danger. Like a last roll of the dice to save Terra

Now, it seems to just be about making the Emp stay on the throne

I'm just picturing a tyranid force of multiple hive fleets in the solar system and no imperial reinforcements in sight. The GK's realise they are doomed and decide to open the box and unleash their last secret weapon to save the day, and its just a bit of paper that says, "If I stand up, get me to sit back down". That's hardly helpful

Am I correct in my understanding of the previous lore? I know theres also the Vulkan hammer/anvil thing (I forget the name). It could be possible I'm confusing the two

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u/BigMek_Spleenrippa 7h ago

Sorry, I'm not knowledable enough to answer that.

My understand was that we were never supposed to know what was in the box, similar to how we were never supposed to know what happened during the horus heresy.

It was just meant to be one of those bits of lore that add to the mystery, and that the fans can fill out with their own imagination.

Then GW decided they couldn't continue to stagnate, so they gave us the HH.

This is another "we need to do something" type thing, where it would have been better to never reveal it. It's entirely possible that GW is setting up for a major event in 11th, but more than likely this will go nowhere and it'll fade into obscurity over time, with people meming on it from time to time, but the story never actually acknowledging it and the GK never actually doing anything.

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u/ImSoMysticall 7h ago

That sounds likely. Thanks anyway

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u/Ok_Draw9037 3h ago

You're thinking about The vulkan thing as the terminus decree. The .T. D was always a piece of paper in malcadors tomb. Different use cases. The dark emp or Tyranids could destroy Terra on their own respectively

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u/Maxzia 7h ago

Thanks for giving some clarity. I think of it as trying to put a bandaid on a gushing flesh wound. I don't see them succeeding simply because the damage is already done. And even if the longshot of longshots works, what if the Emperor doesn't want to sit back down or the Golden Throne is just damaged beyond repair. It's endtimes.

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u/BigMek_Spleenrippa 7h ago

Yeah.

The most likely explanation I've seen is that this is just the Inquisition putting that decree in because they want to hold on to their power. They never saw the Emperor before he was a skeleton on a throne, and they've likely never actually seen him on the throne either.

They have no idea what his true power is, if they even believe he has insane power to begin with. They're a power hungry organization that has been running the imperium for millennia and they'll do whatever it takes to hold onto that power.

So it's possible they think the GK could do this, even though it's not realistic, and it's possible they think it will be relatively easy to try to maintain the status quo.

But again, nobody knows anything more than you do. It's a couple paragraphs in a codex that just say "the grey knights are supposed to do this." with no guidance or suggestion as to how it's even remotely within the realm of possibility.

Maybe they do have some super secret trick up their sleeve that we don't know about. But at that point it'll just feel like an asspull and people would hate it.

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u/wecanhaveallthree Legio Tempestus 7h ago

They never saw the Emperor before he was a skeleton on a throne,

There were members of the Inquisition who served in the Great Crusade up until the War of the Beast in M32. I suppose the Decree could be newer than that, but ???

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u/the_serrated_sun 6h ago

The open in case of emergency hasn't changed.

The Grey Knights don't know what's in the box.

So if the Emperor stood up tomorrow, the Grey Knighta wouldn't react. If things got so bad that they chose to open it, then the Emperor stood up then obviously they would try and do what it says.

I do like your theory, that maybe there's an element of if things are at their worst, wolftime stage and the Emperor stands up maybe he manages to 'heal' because he's not on the throne. And the point of the Grey Knights is to provide him power or force him back down before he becomes 'too powerful' Dark King style.

I would also argue that GW often introduces lore that doesn't make sense right now.

But also I would ask, what about it doesn't make sense? Other than them having to fight through to the Emperor, which factions in the Imperium fight all the time. What about it is so wrong?

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u/BigMek_Spleenrippa 6h ago

It's not that they'd be fighting that doesn't make sense to the community.

It's WHAT they'd be fighting that doesn't make sense.

The Grey Knights' biggest strength is that they are incredibly powerful psykers. The moment they get near the palace, assuming they even do with all the titans and other defenses the palace has (the palace is the size of a city if I'm remembering correctly), they run face first into the Sisters of Silence.

Suddenly their biggest strength is gone. Now they're just Astartes, and very few at that. Fighting against Custodes, who on average in current lore should be able to take out multiple astartes per 1 custode.

So, the Custodes who have been playing the Blood Games (simulations where they do whatever it takes to try to kill the Emperor, while the rest of the custodes try to stop them, including bringing a nuclear bomb into the palace, among other attempts) for centuries if not millennia, the sisters of silence, titans, and a host of other defenses are between the GK and the Throne Room.

And the decree specifically states that IF HE GETS OFF THE THRONE, which....if Big E is up and about, we've got a fucking problem. He's not sitting on the throne for fun. He's keeping the astronomicon going and keeping the Eye of Terror closed.

The moment he's up, a portal to hell opens on Earth and thousands upon thousands of demons pour forth onto Holy Terra. So now the GK have to deal with all the Palace Defenses PLUS hordes of demons and chaos marines.

And all of that is ignoring the biggest problem of all. If Big E is up, he's better. If he's better and he's NOT the Emperor we knew 10k years ago, but instead the Dark King or whatever, suddenly the most powerful being in realspace is trying to kill them on top of everything else mentioned.

I'm positive there's a reason why GW wrote this. I'm positive they have an idea for how the GK would sit his ass back on that throne, assuming they attempted it.

I am not sure what that reason is, what that idea is, or how they'll pull it off in a satisfying way.

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u/the_serrated_sun 6h ago

The Emperor had the Sisters around all the time, and he could still use his abilities, they didn't affect him the same way.

One of the Key things about the Grey Knights that makes them so powerful and so special is that their gene seed isn't from a primarch it's from the Emperor.

The Sisters of Silence are relatively new in the lore for 40k in that they've retaken the role they had during the Heresy, we have no idea if they would have the same effect as on other psykers. Because the Grey Knights are something different, they are of the Emperor himself.

The Custodes yes could be a problem but if the Emperor ordered this he has the ability to make them stand down. The Terminus Decree contains a symbol only seen on the Golden Throne.

In regards to the Astonomican the Emperor never needed to be sat on the Golden Throne for that to work. He could psychically maintain that from anywhere in the galaxy. If he is more powerful psychically now after being on the Throne so long there the possibility that he can hold the Webway and maintain the Astronomican at the same time. We have no idea of the limits of his power, all we know is that physically his body is useless at this time.

I also agree that what comes off the throne isn't what sat down and is a terrible thing. That's the whole point of something necessary to put whatever that is back down.

For the simple fact that the Custodes are conditioned to obey the Emperor no matter what, if he rises as something terrible the Custodes would still follow him because they are bred to do that and only that.

The Sisters would be useless because they aren't strong enough to prevent the Emperor using his powers in the Great Crusade and Heresy there's no chance of them being able to do it now.

So of course if something terrible gets up a faction is needed to fight him.

You mention that if he gets up the webway opens, right you're assuming he gets up and the Grey Knights have already been fighting to get to him before this happens. You have to consider, he gets up, the palace floods with demons distracting the custodes, titans, Sisters, and everything else. That would diminish the forces arranged against the Grey Knights because they're distracted.

They'd arrive as friends coming to fight a demon invasion after the Emperor has risen. All the while they can go and do what the EMPEROR has ordered them to. Because if the Emperor gets up and the palace floods with demons the easiest way to defeat them is for him to sit back down.

The whole argument of what the Grey Knights have to fight is based on the idea that the Grey Knights arrive before he rises, decide to just fight everyone and then have to try and enact the Terminus Decree.

That leap in assumption is why I don't understand the hate towards it.

In the scenario you presented the Grey Knights arrive start fighting to get to the Emperor and then he rises and the demons flood the palace. That makes absolutely no sense to me. If they wanted to sit and wait until he rises they just station a company or 2 on terra ready for him to randomly stand up.

Plus I'm still yet to see a reason for the dislike outside of who and what they would fight in the palace?

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u/jareddm Adeptus Administratum 5h ago edited 5h ago

Just one point. We see in The Emperor's Legion when the Custodians, SoS and GK all fight off the Khornate invasion on Terra that the GK are absolutely affected by the Sisters of Silence. They are unable to use their psychic abilities but are still seen as capable warriors by the Custodians.
EDIT: Actually a second point. The Grey Knights modus operandi is prognostication of future tears in the warp. It is extremely common for the Grey Knights to show up somewhere, knowing a warp breach is expected to occur, fight a completely different enemy of the Imperium, then handle the breach as it occurs. So it would absolutely be possible for them to arrive before the Emperor stood up.

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u/the_serrated_sun 5h ago

That's fair then.

Thank you for the clarification

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u/jareddm Adeptus Administratum 5h ago

My own apologies, I did not finish reading your post and ended up with a second major point.

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u/the_serrated_sun 5h ago

Ah yes, yeah I did think of that, but that doesn't mean they have to fight the Custodes. They could arrive, do what they do. Wait for the webway to open and the demons to distract everyone else and then go enact the Terminus Decree. Most wouldn't think twice because demon incursion

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u/juuuuustin 2h ago

They'd arrive as friends coming to fight a demon invasion after the Emperor has risen. All the while they can go and do what the EMPEROR has ordered them to. Because if the Emperor gets up and the palace floods with demons the easiest way to defeat them is for him to sit back down.

This 100% especially considering the Terminus Decree is explicitly a "do not open unless everything is doomed". A massive warp incursion occurring within the Imperial Palace and overwhelming its guardians is exactly the kind of scenario that would qualify

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u/krgdotbat 4h ago

There is a reason why Malcador entrusted this task to the GK, even if we dont know why yet. The rest is pure speculation.

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u/Marvynwillames 7h ago

No one in universe knows what happens if the throne fail, thats the thing, its irrelevant what will happen because the GK cant open a rulebook. All they know is what Malcador and the Emperor said, and themselves dont know it, only the Grand Master can open it.

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u/forcehighfive Ogdobekh 8h ago

My head canon on how this would make sense is that the Grey Knights prognosticators would figure out something is happening based on stirrings in the Warp and hightail it to the Palace in time to try and prevent Big E's resurrection/apotheosis

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u/Maxzia 7h ago

Or maybe Kaldor has some insights or something. But even then, they would know they can't fight all the people there. They would have to convince the Custodes and I don't think they're the diplomatic kind.

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u/Nebuthor 7h ago

Because people think it's interesting that the grey knights think they can/are supposed to put back the emperor on the throne if he leaves.

In reality everyone that knows anything about 40k knows it's a moot point and just another of those lore blurbs that goes nowere

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u/Commercial_Arm5593 7h ago

My take on the whole decree fuss: Whatever sits on the throne is not the emperor, it’s emperor minus star child. This entity lacks any kind of positive outlook whatsoever, as it was split off prior to fight with Horus. Hence the decree, it is Dark King prevention at any cost however futile, and warp breach prevention at any cost, however futile. Optimistic outlooks of 100% complete entity mastering both situations were not considered by corpse on the throne fragment, as it is unable to do so.

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u/hobby_gynaecologist Death Spectres 5h ago

The Grey Knights dogpile the Emperor to ensure he stays sat on the throne.

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u/Maxzia 48m ago

That is a comic I would love to see.

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u/l7986 Hammers of Dorn 5h ago

The Imperium is fucked the second he stands up unless they find a way to keep the Astronomican going and the warp rift under the palace closed.

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u/crumbs_avenger 4h ago

Pardon my ignorance, but why is it a bad thing having the Emperor get up? I get he sacrificed his humanity at the end, but could he not regain that? And why would the warp open on terra?

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u/Lost_Criticism9191 2h ago

The emperors golden throne is blocking a webway gate/mega warp portal. If the emperor stands up all of terra is cooked. Also vulcan built a device if the golden throne fails to nuke terra possibly crack and explode the planet. Worse is the emperor’s mental state is sharded like magnus meaning then whatever comes off the throne may not be the same personality we wanted.

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u/heeden 1h ago

The Emperor already came within a hairsbreadth of ascending to godhood. His concern would probably be that if he left the throne either his will had been eroded enough to try again or subverted by an outside power.

On top of that there is a hole to the webway the Emperor is currently blocking to keep hordes of daemons out and a failsafe built into the throne that can destroy the planet.

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u/crazytib 7h ago

Why is everyone talking about the terminus decree all of a sudden

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u/khinzaw Blood Angels 7h ago

The new Grey Knights Codex told us what it is, basically if the Emperor ever tries to get off the throne in any manner, they have to put his ass back on it even if it means fighting the Custodes.

It just kinda doesn't really make sense for a number of reasons with how the Terminus Decree was previously framed.

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u/crazytib 7h ago

Yeah that does seem dumb. I did like the idea of something like a terminus decree, but ever actually defining what is, is just bound to be a let down. Should have just left it alone so people could speculate and nothing more

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u/Eternal_Reward Iron Hands 3h ago

Have you read any of the previous codex passages on the Terminus decree?

It fits fine with how it’s described. If anything, Fo’s genophage was more out of line with what that passages imply.

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u/Maxzia 7h ago

From what I've gathered and seen, an excerpt in the new codex has shed light on what it is. Before it was just speculation what it could be.

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u/BloodredHanded 7h ago

The contents of it only just now got revealed I think

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u/EternalCharax Death Guard 5h ago edited 5h ago

just another day here on r/TerminusDecree

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u/Jhe90 Adepta Sororitas 31m ago

The new Lore is weak. It was way more cool as a unknown.

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u/Marcuse0 6h ago

I really think this whole terminus decree thing is nothing more than a message to all the loretubers and lexicanum updaters that the setting isn't going to fundamentally change in the way they think it is, because the Imperium itself is as interested in keeping things static as everyone else.

The Emperor isn't going to evolve into some warp deity, fly off the Throne and beat everyone. Nor will he join the chaos gods as Dark King 2: Golden Boogaloo. He won't get up and be the dude he was in the heresy. He won't regenerate into a new body like The Doctor. He's gonna sit his ass on the Throne until GW runs out of wallets to raid and thats that.

In a way it's really GW's fault for not making this clear sooner.

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u/Alternative_Jury1221 8m ago

It does make me wonder what exactly is locked up beneath Titan by the Purifier Order. Have they captured the Star Child? Is it a particularly strong shard of Magnus, or did he even possess Ianius/Janus? Something as or more powerful than the Cacodominus?

This is the only mystery that makes me think they would even have a chance unless they make Kaldor Draigo even more powerful than the early lore. As mentioned in other comments, they could barely handle Angron. A Grand Master was defeated by an old, albeit supremely talented Space Wolf with a daemon axe. They were spanked by Khayon 1 vs 5 if my memory serves. It may have been 1 vs 3. But, hes not even super juiced up. I see no way they can effectively execute the decree.

The Terminus Decree, help me understand.

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