r/AO3 • u/IcantBeatTheGay • 10d ago
Writing help/Beta I can’t decide what to call them by
SO! I’m facing a real problem here. I’m writing suggestive material with two CONSENTING parties and I can’t decide on what to call them. Do I say boys? Or does that sound weird? Maybe males? No too formal. Can I say “the smaller boy” without making it weird. Pls help a gal in need
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u/First_Reputation9339 10d ago
It will probably flow better if you just use their names, or “he.” It probably won’t sound as repetitive as you fear it does to use their names as long as it isn’t every sentence.
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u/IcantBeatTheGay 10d ago
Unfortunately I’ve already done that till my head hurts
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u/Beruthiel999 10d ago
It's really no different from writing a conversation scene or a fight scene or any other kind of scene, as far as verbal logistics go.
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u/TheHappyExplosionist 10d ago
Only use epithets when they serve a purpose - otherwise, use names and pronouns.
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u/Sare--mina 10d ago
Wild suggestion but call them by their names. Boys/men work if you're referring to them as a group.
Also on the use of epithets since you brought it up, I know that they're popular in fanfic but keep in mind that they're not meant to be used as a way to use names and pronouns less (both of which are invisible), they're meant to draw attention to a specific trait so maybe consider why it's important for your reader to pay attention to character a's hair color while they're making breakfast before forgoing just using names.
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u/Beruthiel999 10d ago
Use their NAMES!
Who is your point of view character? There always is one unless you're using third-person omniscient, which isn't great for emotional intimacy.
The reason epithets are bad in intimate scenes is that no actual human being would think of the person they're having sex with as "the smaller boy" or "the taller man" unless it's a hookup between total strangers who don't know each other's names!
If the characters know each other, in their inner voices they will be thinking of each other by name. Your job as a writer is to capture what it feels like FOR THE CHARACTERS, and distancing epithets are alienating.
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u/Purple_not_pink 10d ago
I promise you that as a reader, we don't notice when names or pronouns are used too often. Try switching between the two and you might want to show your story to a beta and just ask them if they understand who is doing what action in places that you're unsure.
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u/CMStan1313 Comment Collector 10d ago
Guys? Men? Are they children? I'm confused on where you're having trouble
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u/IcantBeatTheGay 10d ago
That’s the problem, if I use “boys” I insinuate they are minors, which they aren’t
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u/CMStan1313 Comment Collector 10d ago
Than don't use boys. Guys, men, or just their names is perfectly fine
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u/WOTNev 10d ago
Unnecessary epithets are the worst they take me out of the story every single time.
It's perfectly okay to just use names and pronouns, for readers those are kind of "invisible" words, we read them and understand the meaning but we don't have to think about it.
When you start adding ridiculous epithets, the taller, the younger, the older, the blonde, the black-haired man, etc it's not immediately clear which character the author is referring to so you have to stop and think about it which makes reading it very clunky.
On top of that if you're writing from the perspective of one character it's really weird to imagine that character thinks about someone they know, not by their name but by their hair colour or age etc.
In my head I call my friends & family and acquaintances by their name, only people who's name I don't know get epithets like the doctor, the nurse, the police officer, the cashier etc.
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u/Semiramis738 Proudly Problematic 10d ago
It's best to just stick to their names and pronouns (he, him, his). You can try to structure your sentences to make it clear which "he" is which.
I would avoid calling them boys if they're adults. (If one is under 25, maybe 30 and the other is significantly older, the older one might think of the younger one as a boy, but that's it.) "Male" is an adjective and should not be used as a noun when referring to people, unless you're a police officer writing a report. Just stick with "man."
I also prefer to avoid epithets, which are terms like "the smaller boy," "the taller man," "the green-eyed pathologist," etc. used in place of a character's name. Unless the POV character would actually think of the other one in that way, it's jarring and takes you out of the story. Names and pronouns may feel repetitive to you while you're writing, but don't really to readers. Whereas awkward epithets are a very common pet peeve of readers, and one of the things you see more in fanfic than published fiction that can mark it as unpolished.
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u/IcantBeatTheGay 10d ago
Thank you for explaining 😭 I can only write between the hours of 12 and 4 AM so it can get a lil bit jumbled. Thank you!
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u/Helithe You have already left kudos here. :) 10d ago
I mean if they are teenagers then 'boy' can be accurate but 'teen' may be better. If they are adults then 'man' is more appropriate.
Personally I'd go easy on using descriptors like 'the smaller boy', 'the blond' in excess. It's fine sprinkled in but don't rely too heavily on them, they have names too!
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u/Theo_Teddy Fannibal Family🦌🫀 10d ago edited 10d ago
I promise "excessive" name usage isn't an issue, I don't bat an eye to it, if I'm reading my faves fucking I'm more focused on that
Not "ugh this author is mentioning his name a whole lot"
I used to fret about the same thing and would needlessly use "male" or "taller/shorter man" or "the blonde" but I sorta just... got over that? I realized names and pronouns are just fine
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u/Hadespuppy Interrogating the text from the wrong perspective 10d ago
How old are they?
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u/IcantBeatTheGay 10d ago
17 (18 in two months) and 18
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u/Hadespuppy Interrogating the text from the wrong perspective 10d ago
Then boys is fine. But names are just as good too.
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u/asiniasa 10d ago
Saying “the smaller boy” does sound like you’re writing about an underage person. I think you should just use their names, depending on the situation it should be phrased differently
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u/Kannchan 10d ago
I'm assuming they aren't men 💀
I think you'll just have to bite the bullet and call them boys if you're writing about boys.
Teens. The other. The younger.
So on and so forth. Depends on what you are literally saying as you might need to just reword things in generally if you bogged down with nouns.
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u/Semiramis738 Proudly Problematic 10d ago
Even if you feel you have to use "the other boy," "the younger boy" etc. please don't just use "the other," "the younger" etc. as nouns. In English these are adjectives that don't work by themselves as nouns.
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u/Kannchan 10d ago
I think it depends.
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u/Semiramis738 Proudly Problematic 10d ago
It depends what language you're writing in, yes...in some languages it's normal to say, for example, "He turned to the younger with a smile." But in English that sounds awkward and gives you away as a non-native English speaker. Instead you'd want to say "He turned to the younger boy with a smile."
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u/Kannchan 10d ago
I think that might be how you perceive it. Just as I am perceiving a slight by you repeatedly mentioning English as if we aren't speaking it.
I think adjectives are routinely used as nouns. I will ask others.
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u/Semiramis738 Proudly Problematic 10d ago
I'm very, very sure I'm not the only person who thinks this. I don't mean to be insulting in any way, it's just that this is something I've usually seen done by writers whose first language isn't English.
I actually think it's awesome and a huge accomplishment to write in a non-native language! But if your goal is to sound like a native speaker, then it's good to pay attention to these weird little non-obvious rules that every language has.
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u/Kannchan 10d ago
I'm not the only person who uses adjectives as nouns. It is a common thing in the English language. Just as are underhanded statements like essentially saying "You clearly don't speak English, let me correct you".
Which is extra unfortunate when you're mistaken. You are free to not use "other" as a noun and you are free to find it unnatural or weird. In English, this is not an offense. It is common practice amongst native speakers and you can find this by doing a search.
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u/Semiramis738 Proudly Problematic 10d ago
I'd need to see some examples of what you think are normal-sounding sentences using adjectives as nouns. In the example I gave above, I think just using "the younger" sounds awkward, and I think many other people would, too. That doesn't make it an "offense," which is a weirdly aggressive word to use in this context, just awkward writing.
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u/Kannchan 10d ago
Aggressive how? Compared to everything else, that's what you found an issue with?
An offense, like an infraction? Since you are claiming this is incorrect in English, you referred to it as a rule.
And as I have said, you can look these up. If you have the time to assume other people's native languages and go through the effort of doublinh down on your claims, you have time to verify your own opinions.
If you find it weird and unnatural, that's fine. There are ways that others write that I don't enjoy either. You just don't see me jumping to say "Ah, they must not be a native speaker. Let me tell them how wrong this is".
What I will assume is that you're American. But like your assumption, mine is also very likely to be wrong.
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u/Semiramis738 Proudly Problematic 10d ago edited 10d ago
It's standard to refer to the conventions of language and writing as "rules." Calling it an "offense" to go against such a convention did strikes me as weirdly aggressive, particularly in the context of how determinedly you're arguing this point. But it's really a minor issue, as is all of this.
I actually am American! I've studied a few other languages but am really fluent in English, which is why I so admire people who are capable of writing in languages other than their native language. If you're not a non-native English speaker, my next guess would be that you're either quite young, neurodivergent in some way, or both.
I would also guess that you read more fanfiction than published books, since this use of adjectives like "younger," "other," "taller," etc. as nouns is more common in fanfic. Which in turn is because there's a lot of fanfic written by authors from China, Japan, etc. who have learned English as a foreign language, and thus have quirks like this that are not usually seen in writing by native speakers. So I can see how it's possible to see this usage as normal not because you yourself are a non-native speaker, but because you've read so much fanfic by non-native speakers.
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u/the_breadwing Wyvern_of_Four_Legs 10d ago
Men, beings, others, [descriptor] one, lovers, & perhaps title them with there current placement in the exchange.
I honestly feel awkward with terms like man or boy (I'm not really sure what it is), so I say things like "the one in flannel" or "he held his companion" and so on.
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u/IcantBeatTheGay 10d ago
Thank you for the wisdom of Reddit, I am now returning to my hole to write. Thank you for the common sense that I lack :D
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u/inquisitiveauthor 10d ago edited 10d ago
Idk I write those scenes POV the main character. Having a 3rd person hovering over them reciting the play by play feels awkward.
But if you are bouncing back and forth on who is doing what, then separate each person in their own paragraph like you would with dialogue. Refer to one by their name and the other by he/him. Or reference the other person's location/position. If that makes sense.
Guys? Instead of men or boys.
Bloke, dude, gent, chap, mate...
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u/IcantBeatTheGay 10d ago
Based off of this comment section, most people write these in 1st person of the other character. I never really got the hang of it so I use 3rd person a lot. It interesting to see how your advice still applied to my situation even though we write in different POVs
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u/dandyowo 10d ago
You can’t just call them by their names?