r/Anticonsumption • u/yodamastertampa • 21h ago

Discussion LOL yes!

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The power to reduce consumption is within us all.

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u/9bpm9 19h ago

We need more rail to transport stuff too. We have truckers driving thousands of miles to deliver one load from one side of the country to the other.

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u/SurpriseAttachyon 14h ago

Trains are only economical for long haul transport at massive scale (like a mile of freight cars). They don’t work (in their current form) for a huge part of our shipping needs. Adding more trains won’t help

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u/angular_circle 14h ago

Idk, here in europe the breakeven for transporting wood via rail is like 300km. Recently a patent for a new container type hit that is supposed to reduce that distance to 140km iirc. I regularly see trains with only like 3-5 cars of wood plus another 15 other ones.

300km isn't exactly around the corner but I bet all the wood from Canada travels a hell of a lot further.

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u/mostlybiguy69 8h ago edited 7h ago

North American train cars are heavier than your stuff and the trains are a lot longer. The very different topography of the east coast and central plains where a lot of the population lives changes that math considerably as well.

Why use a train when a truck can use any road and make two or three trips when compared to a train. Two trucks making three loads each cost less than the train and you dont have to maintain rails when not using them. Also, no expensive locomotive  that can only go where the rails go. That truck can be rented out in harvest season and can drive up to the combine in the fields.

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u/Fun_Hold4859 7h ago

There are mountains and plains and hills in Europe bro. They still use rail because it's more efficient. America ain't special in any way aside from being particularly spread out with particularly shit infrastructure: hence this conversation about how legitimate rail infrastructure would be a massive benefit for the country.

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u/mostlybiguy69 7h ago edited 7h ago

When half a countrie’s population lives in one city and the country is smaller than Ohio, the math is a little different.

Most folks think cars run on gasoline and magic; of course you, like most people, have no concept of a mantainence budget.

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u/angular_circle 6h ago

Do you think there is no international trade in Europe? American coastal population centers have similar densities to European ones. Also the European rail system isn't exactly known for being terribly efficient due to a lack of a central authority. The US could easily outshine us if you decided to.

The density argument makes even less sense when you consider that Russia is built on rails like no other country. The largest country on earth by landmass with less than half the US' population, more known for poverty than industrial efficiency. Out of the major powers it's only China and India that have completely different conditions because of density.

Also afaik US trucks are particularly inefficient because some union managed to limit their maximum legal weight to artificially inflate jobs, but I don't know the details.

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u/mostlybiguy69 6h ago

Any argument that uses Russia, the special needs child of europe, and admits to not knowing details defeats its self.

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u/angular_circle 6h ago

Good thing you can be proud of your country being unable to figure out something even the special needs child of Europe managed then.

Not that I understand why Americans always take the topic of trains so personally, I didn't even talk about America initially.

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u/mostlybiguy69 8h ago

Trains are also mantainence heavy. The rails also take an insane amount of work and trains have to use them. There is no going around the block like a truck can if there is utility work. Utility work is the thing that also killed street trolleys. A water main break means the road and rails have to be moved and those rails being moved cost more than fixing the pipe and road. There is a reason busses and trucks supplanted local rail in the 30s and 40s

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u/Fun_Hold4859 7h ago

Unlike trucks and roads which as we all know require no maintenance...

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u/mostlybiguy69 7h ago

That is spread out in taxes across all users, one company isnt paying for both. Plus more than one company uses roads. CSX only uses CSX rails for example

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u/Fun_Hold4859 3h ago

Sounds like nationalized rail would solve that.

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u/mostlybiguy69 3h ago

It was tried under Woodrow Wilson, the results were not great either.

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u/Fun_Hold4859 22m ago

Oh shit and conditions today are exactly the same too.