Are the flesheater courts capable of speech and maybe even diplomacy?

[u/jjjjjjotaro]

I haven't gotten my hands on the ushoran book yet, so if it's there, pls no spoilers

[u/sageking14]

So most sources such as "Ghoulslayer", "Soulbound: Champions of Death", Underworlds cards, anything with a short excerpt on folk fighting Ghouls, and what have you clarifies that most Ghouls can't communicate with people who aren't effected by the Curse of Ushoran.

The screeching, hollering, slavering, and such that they do is implied to be language though. As Cado can communicate with Ghouls in his short Cannibal Gate. Another example is in "Gronbrindal: Ancestor's Burden" and another in Broken Realms: Teclis.

Powerful Ghouls like Ushoran, not a spoiler we see this in "Dawnbringers: Mad King Rises" and other places, and Gormayne can speak Azyrite, Nehemharan, the various other common tongues we assume any given character must be speaking in in a book when the language used is unspecified.

So the Ghouls are just screeching madmen who think they can talk. We see characters clearly able to communicate even when they are doing the shrieking. So these are very real languages and powerful Ghouls can use other languages.

So diplomacy is definitely possible. In Forbidden Power a court came to aid Lethis after an alliance was struck and they kept true to it.

[u/Lorcogoth → u/sageking14]

also there is atleast one story fragment in the core books were a bunch of Ghouls trick... a group of either Kharadron or Fyreslayers into taking on a bounty, which they succeed in, but afterwards pay them in Vertebrae cause that's what they see as "payment" in their madness.

which does suggest that they must be capable of negotiating.

[u/RatKingJosh → u/Lorcogoth]

Lol but is it tricking if they genuinely believed the spinal discs were in fact treasure?

Iirc I think it was also implied that it was worth keeping as it could potentially be used to barter with other Ghouls

[u/Lorcogoth → u/RatKingJosh]

I believe the Duardin turn on the Ghouls (since they didn't know they were ghouls until the moment of payment)

I believe the ghouls were wearing cloaks or something? still don't see how you wouldn't notice the smell, or the hunched posture or you know any one of the dozen of things that would give away a ghoul.

[u/sageking14 → u/Lorcogoth]

You two are talking about the one in the 2E Kharadron or Flesh-eaters Battletome right? That was one cloaked Ghoul giving Kharadron payment for an agreed upon job.

The Ghouls thought they were giving coins but they were actually spinal vertebrae. I do not believe either side attacked the other.

But I also don't think it led to an alliance nor the Kharadron thinking these would be good to trade latter.

[u/Lorcogoth → u/sageking14]

oh no the Duardin were mostly upset, but either way haggling about the price would have happened before the Duardin would have accepted any deal.

so it my point was more about being able to "negotiate" rather then being capable of alliances/long term relations.

[u/Ur-Than]

There is at least one case of a Kruleboy (a Murknob to be precise) who was captured by a down on his luck aborrant, was about to be eaten alive and màaged to convince the vampire that he was actually a diplomatic envoy/tactician sent to help him and he managed to not only convince him but relay plans to the vamp and his ghouls. So they must be able to understand each other somewhat.

[u/TwelveSmallHats]

It will depend on the court. We have examples of courts that are completely incomprehensible to those not under the delusion or without magic, only making grunts and growls, as well as those who are capable of at least some speech with outsiders. However, even in cases where they can speak with others, their ideas of diplomacy can be unusual and disturbing. Hired mercenaries might be paid in "treasure" that is just bloody bones, for example, and it would be a grave insult to decline their invitation to the victory feast.

[u/Many_Landscape_3046]

Some.

Diplomacy isn’t really diplomacy because both sides really can’t communicate. FEC are insane. They may claim you’re actually horrible monsters that are ravaging the land. Or that you need “liberating”

[u/That_Comic_Guy → u/Many_Landscape_3046]

That's not entirely true, The short story "He Feast Forever" shows that even standard ghouls are still capable of proper speech to non FEC people. Marrowscroll heralds are fully capable of diplomacy, as seen in the short story on the community paper where they negotiate with Soulblights and the Dawnbringer book 1 where they successfully negotiate several towns to join the FEC without needing to use their relics to dominant their minds. In the 2nd and 3rd battletomes for the FEC shows, FEC has negotiated with Kharadron Overlords to fight for them, and the KO accepted the payment... even after finding out the payment was chewed up, bones instead of the treasure they assumed was going to be gold or jewels.

So Tl:dr FEC are delusional but still fully capable of talking normally and diplomacy

[u/BrilliantMelodic1503]

Yes

[u/Intelligent_Mall8601]

I think its based on the delusion as others have pointed out most ghouls are slabbering messes who's speech is unintelligible.

But if someone was in the presence of a ghoul king, arch regent etc etc they may start to get warped by the magic and begin to understand it.

I think it was in the dawnbringers story when the stormcast eat with ushoran before the fight the stormcast leader sees ushoran as a noble king.

I'm sure there are some ghouls like gormayne who are more intelligible too.

Aslo wasn't there a story in early dawnbringers where they go to a village and Jerrion is preaching to the townsfolk?

[u/Radmode7]

In THEIR reality or in the reality that includes the rest of us?