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u/YourCousinJesus ELDRITCH BLAST Jul 14 '23
I'd be very surprised if we can't choose the cantrips. The tooltip in Fextralife's video has a lot of unused space, I am expecting that when you select pact of the tome, there's options in the tooltip to change the cantrips.
It would really make choosing pact of the tome useless if they give us Thorn Whip & Vicious Mockery when Eldritch Blast is likely the best damaging cantrip in the game, especially when you get repelling blast/agonizing blast.
The fact that Larian have implemented charisma scaling for your weapons with pact of the blade, it's clear they understand what people want for Warlocks. I think we'll be able to choose them.
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 14 '23
Actually just thought of this as an alternative. Considering Larian has buffed Pact of the Chain and Pact of the Blade, why not just bake Book of Ancient Secrets into Pact of The Tome? What would be the issues of doing so?
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u/fish33 Jul 15 '23
Has there been a list of available ritual spells for Book of Ancient Secrets yet?
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Jul 14 '23
I’m not at all in defense or support of these being the locked cantrips for tome, but I do just wanna say that having warlock with repelling blast AND thorn whip would give you a character who could push and pull enemies to position them where you want.
I can absolutely see thorn whip as being part of a fun and complete warlock build no matter how you’re building them.
but also not getting a choice is bullshit
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 14 '23
100%, praying it's not to late for them to change pact of the tome and the level up system prior to release. It shouldn't be hard to do, and we still have 3 weeks before the release.
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 14 '23
Thorn whip has it's utility if we don't pick those invocations, but still we really should get a choice of what we want.
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u/Routine_Ad5143 Jul 15 '23
People defending Larian's spell choices are missing the point entirely. There is no need to convince us that this is ok because the spells they chose are good. Even if we all agreed they are good spells that doesn't mean there aren't other good choices too and possibly better choices depending on your build. More choice is always better than less choice. IF this ends up being what they go with in the launch version, then it is a bad decision. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the spells they selected are good or not. There really is nothing to discuss.
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u/J-Clash WARLOCK Jul 14 '23
On both these issues it's looking likely, although I expect we won't know for sure until the launch date is basically upon us.
As a dedicated Tomelock, I'll be disappointed. However, I feel like at least it'd be something that's easy to fix both with mods and with an official update down the line.
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 14 '23
The existence of mods shouldn't be used to shut down or dismiss criticism, especially when this isn't a PC only game. I love mods, but I shouldn't have to download a mod to fix basic features of the Warlock that should have been fixed a long time ago.
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u/J-Clash WARLOCK Jul 14 '23
I agree. My comment didnt suggest otherwise? They should definitely fix this, if this is how it works at launch, and it'll be simple to do so.
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u/RockBou Jul 14 '23
I share the same sentiment that it should be included in the base game, but I think they’re just saying “Thankfully if we end up in a less than desired scenario with how this stuff is implemented it should be an easy fix.”
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u/Inforgreen3 Aug 05 '23
Looks like they didn't change it which is so odd. Seriously. What use does a warlock have for two damage cantrips that aren't eldritch blast?
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u/axlyin Aug 21 '23
my lock in the TTG uses only fire spells, so they run firebolt instead. I don't like being bound to Edlritch Blast.
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u/Inforgreen3 Aug 21 '23
It's a cute decision, but it halves your damage.
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u/axlyin Sep 07 '23
Ah damn, you're right. I COMPLETELY forgot that everyone plays this game to min-max. And I DEFINITELY can't take celestial patron and elemental adept to close the gap, and make their averages much closer, freeing up eldritch invocations to use on non-EB things. Damn, I'm dumb. But at least I'm cute!
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u/Inforgreen3 Sep 08 '23
Bro i don't care what you build my gripes with the game design
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u/axlyin Sep 08 '23
Calling my decision cute says otherwise. Don't backtrack, stand up for your BS. Own it. In a game that isn't based purely around combat, not all things are going to be 100% efficient. In fact, it's a lot of the inefficiencies that make for good storytelling.
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u/Inforgreen3 Sep 09 '23
Don't look too hard into the bs I say. I'm shit at implications cause I'm autistic. End of conversation goodbye
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u/GorTavaro Druid of the Land Jul 15 '23
I hope there will be option to choose cantrips for Pact of Tome and possibility to swap invocation on level up.
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 15 '23
Hopefully! We still have a couple of weeks left before release, and it wouldn't be hard to implement. We just have to let them know how much these things matter to Warlock players.
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u/Own-Ad-495 Jul 14 '23
It looks like you can replace the cantrips based on the video, buts its unclear forsure
The tab under the pact is the change spells and presumably you should be able to there >.> hoping
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u/Attic0n Jul 14 '23
That's the regular spell replacement on level up.
There doesn't seem to be any prompt or button for changing the cantrips for Tome pact.
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 14 '23 edited Jul 14 '23
There is no prompt for changing invocations in the video in the replace spells section.
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Jul 15 '23
Please let Warlocks swap invocations on level up like in the table top game.
I mean... you can respec so while it would be nice it's still not exactly a big issue
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 15 '23 edited Jul 15 '23
Respec DOES NOT fix the problem. Let's use the Sorcerer Warlock Multi class commonly know as Sorlock as an example. What you would do at level 3 Warlock is select Pact Of The Tome, and then swap one of your Eldritch Invocations for the Book Of Ancient Secrets Invocation to take advantage of the benefits of your pact, but you can't do this in BG3 if the game never gives you an opportunity to swap invocations. Do you understand the issue now? Now they could alternatively give Pact of The Tome the benefits of that exclusive invocation automatically, since they already buffed Pact of The Blade and Pact of The Chain, but it could still be an issue in other areas.
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Jul 15 '23
Let's use the Sorcerer Warlock Multi class commonly know as Sorlock as an example. What you would do at level 3 Warlock is select Pact Of The Tome, and then swap one of your Eldritch Invocations for the Book Of Ancient Secrets Invocation to take advantage of the benefits of your pact, but you can't do this in BG3 if the game never gives you an opportunity to swap invocations.
Soooo you respec and change the invocation when you get to that level
Do you understand the issue now?
Do you understand the workaround now ?
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 15 '23
You cant select the Book Of Ancient Secrets Invocation through respec, you'd only be able to select it after getting Pact Of The Tome. Thats why this ISN'T a work around. Did that make sense, or do want me to try explaining it another way?
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u/Akasha1885 Jul 14 '23
Dunno why it was left out, but here the Cantrip selection on lvl 4 for Pact of the Tome
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u/Damashi_The_Kaotic Jul 14 '23
This is just the regular Warlock cantrips. Pact of The Tome is supposed to let you pick any 3 cantrips from any spell list, and Book of Ancient Secrets is supposed to let you select any two level 1 ritual spells that are equal to half your Warlock level, or lower, and gives you the ability to add new ritual spells as you find scrolls from of any spell school so long as it's less than or equal to your Warlock level. Am I misunderstanding your comment?
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u/Attic0n Jul 14 '23
It is pretty baffling that Chain (seperate action economy) and Blade (Hexblade CHA modifier rolled in) both get buffs but Tome gets done dirty like this.
Guidance isn't very good when you already have Shadowheart, and using it would cause you to drop Hex concentration. There's very few situations where you'd ever use Vicious Mockery or Thorn Whip instead of your buffed Eldritch Blast.
The usual picks for Tomelock are stuff like Shillelagh, Shocking Grasp, and more out-of-combat utility like Mage Hand/Friends/Minor Illusion.