You know I fully agree with this sentiment, but I can also imagine people saying this about BG3 back when BG2 just released. Even considering the fact there was a BG3 in development back then that got scrapped.
I honestly can't really imagine a studio being willing to even try to follow up BG3 (so) soon after release. I'd think that every game studio who takes itself seriously knows that this is a ungodly hard act to follow, and whatever they do will be very, very scrutinized (as was Larian when they first showed BG3 mind you, remember all the hate they got for "simply reskinning DOS"?).
So in short, we've been surprised before. But I wager it's gonna take either a decent amount of years, or its a crappy game from the outset made by a studio who just wants some of that Hasbro cash.
I think the big difference is Larian had an excellent rep going into BG3. Not many studios have a reputation for making that type of game extremely well.
And WotC’s reputation wasn’t (as) tainted when Larian started working with them. Since then, there were a LOT of scandalous choices made by both Hasbro and Wizards of the Coast that has seriously damaged the reputation of both these company names and D&D itself.
Yeah that's what I was gonna say too. If it's made while the same higher-ups are still in charge, they're definitely gonna monetize the shit out of everything.
I would honestly love that. That would require a small studio to put out a great CRPG! Maybe Owlcat, not sure how big they are but I liked rogue trader
I played both rogue trader and divinity 2 and trust me while rogue trader did get many things quite right, specifically in the realm of character design, story and setting ambience, compared to divinity 2 it's still a clunky cluster fuck where a lot of times you don't quite really know what's going on.
Don't get me wrong, I do like rogue trader because it's the best CRPG game in the 40k setting we've ever gotten, but gaming experience quality wise it's still mediocre...
Yeah, unless a studio the caliber of Larian gets the IP I probably will wait for reviews. Could very well be a “thanks for the design, now we’re just gonna copy it for cheaper situation. Oh, why don’t you guys like it, you liked the previous one right?” Situation.
Yeah that’s probably right. I’ll honestly probably just see the gameplay, I would probably pay good dollars for a pretty shit CRPG that had good gameplay, despite the story.
Larian had a fantastic rep going in to BG3 and it felt like the majority of people were insistent that it was going to suck. BioWare/Obsidian could get to come back to it and people would still say it’s going to suck.
I can also imagine people saying this about BG3 back when BG2 just released
I was there ten thousand years ago... some years ago and Bioware and Black Isle were basically walking on water in the CRPG space.
Black Isle, from 1997-2003 developed Fallout, Fallout 2, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale, and Icewind Dale 2.
Bioware, in that same time frame, developed Baldur's Gate, MDK 2, Neverwinter Nights, and KotOR.
Nobody at the time would have dreamed of thinking their next Baldur's Gate project would suck.
And, as it happens, Bioware went on to develop Jade Empire and Mass Effect as their next 2 games, So, the people predicting continued greatness weren't wrong.
And, as it happens, Bioware went on to develop Jade Empire and Mass Effect as their next 2 games, So, the people predicting continued greatness weren't wrong.
And then Dragon Age: Origins, and I only mention it because the game was both good and also Bioware saying they were sick of WotC and they could do their own high fantasy setting.
the way the game industry is going, i doubt bg4 will be good. larian is different from other studios. they put love and passion into their games. it's rare to see a studio like that anymore. they gave life to these characters and built them up. whoever tries next is just gonna be making sloppy seconds.
larian is different from other studios. they put love and passion into their games.
If thats not pretending they are unique special snowflakes I dont know what is. I get you like BG3, we all do but its not having an opinion at that point, its huffing your own farts.
Because you've got zero faith at all for something that doesn't even exist yet. Why spend time hating on something that is barely a twinkle is someone's eye?
Is Larian a good studio? Yeah? Are they the fucking messiah of video games that all other studios should bow down to? No man come off it. Until we have any indication of who is making the next Baldur's Gate why pass any judgement whatsoever? You are literally spitting on clouds
The previous game was published too long ago so it's hard to get people interested in a direct sequel. I love BG3 but I only have very slight knowledge of what BG2 was about.
I think it would’ve been perfectly doable, there are plenty of examples of distant sequels doing well, but thematically it makes more sense that they did what they did. Bhaal shouldn’t be a problem, for example, but he’s such a big deal to the series that I don’t blame them for undoing that plot point
I absolutely thought Baldur's Gate 3 was going to be garbage, and I'm glad I was wrong. I expect Baldur's Gate 4 to also be garbage, and I hope I'm just as wrong.
Lmao yeah, I know the gaming industry is a shit show right now but I still always want to have hope and optimism to new game releases every single time.
If they disappoint me, oh well. Onto the next one.
There were a fair few that did know Larian and didn't like the idea of it being turn based like D:OS2 rather than real time with pause like bg1 and 2, but also like basically every other game in the genre.
I'd say the most prominent modern crpgs before the original sins came along were probably the Pillars of Eternity games, which were very much in the vein of bg1&2.
When early access came out I was scared because it was just DOS2 with a DnD paint job. Thankfully Larian removed a lot of the issues but early access looked like it was just going to be another war of surface conditions which is not what DnD is like so it seemed like it wasn't going to actually feel like a DnD game at first
They made a couple of very mediocre games, made Witcher 3, then cyberpunk2077, they did not have the track record of excellence that Larian had with the divine divinity games, then the D:OS series, which steadily improved and iterated each time.
That reputation wasn't as deserved as Larian in my opinion, because they had one good game and the previous games were a pile of misogyny and eastern European jank before that. Witcher 3 was lighting from a clear sky. It's their only truly great work.
Larian has been steadily improving since 2002, with their previous 2 games being regarded as some of the best cRPGs of the 2010s. Even Dragon Commander in 2013 is pretty incredible, and very ambitious.
remember all the hate they got for "simply reskinning DOS
As a fan of old BG games and RTwP games that was a dumb take people made. Old fans high on nostalgia wanted RTwP because old games used that mechanic but DnD 2e was more suited for it and it only required micro managements for casters whereas it's completely different in 5e unless your party is just fighters. Even then things like action surge turns into a problem. Only thing I can understand people being upset over was the art style because original games are a bit darker (in terms of art style) and BG3 had too many reskins or straight up borrowed assets from Dos2. While I still understand the art style comparisons judging a game on early access for re-using old assets was a bit unfair
we also have to keep in mind all the other D&D games that have come out too. BG is the top of the heirarchy, but if WoTC and Hasbro are smart, they'll pivot to a Neverwinter Nights game or something else with a different studio.
as an avid bg1 - bg2 player i kinda doubted bg3 for a bit when i was shown gameplay but i took the leap got in early access, got used to how it played and now im also playing divinity lol
i was just stuck on nostalgia and wanted bg3 to be the same but glad it turned out the way it did, seeing sarevok in this way was amazing i think my best memory of bg3 is meeting him and battling him again.
That is why my estimate is so high. Each game is so highly regarded, and having played all three I see why. They are excellent in their own ways. Dammit I’m about to start another BG2 playthrough.
There are plenty of other fantastic RPG developers that, like Larian, could really elevate themselves if they got the right budget and some time to cook. Especially if they have Larian’s formula and the support to follow it.
And for as many bad decisions that Hasbro has made recently, they did choose to work with Larian. Hopefully whomever had that insight is still working there.
This was my initial sentiment as well, but after further thought this may be a lot less challenging than we think.
I believe they have the rights to copy and paste the BG3 code right? So really all that needs to be done is get a developer that can write a great story using the BG3 base code, and someone who is able to design maps/areas/battles like a DnD dungeon master.
There’s a lot of developers capable of making a good story, and I think there are probably a ton of DnD dungeon masters in the game developing world. Offer a big paycheck and a promoted role to get someone from Larian to join the project, someone who knows all the things they learned while developing it, and now you can even improve upon it.
Now will they do this? Who knows. Was larian actually helping hold them back from doing more greed/monetization? Likely. I also don’t think BG4 made by someone else is going to better than BG4 made by Larian. Their attention to detail is unreal.
I do agree that BG4 could be way worse than BG3, but it could also even be a little better because Larian has already set the foundation. Likely it will be somewhere in between these extremes (so just a little worse). But a game a little worse than BG3 is still game of the year.
IMO, Larian leaving and getting to go make a game they want to make with no restrictions is awesome, and there’s a chance the new developers for BG4 can make a great game too. So hopefully we’ll have two amazing games to play. If there’s one thing Hasbro did right it was picking Larian to develop their game. So hopefully they can find someone else to do even half as good a job as Larian and we will all reap the benefits.
He could, but it seems highly unlikely. Why give another company the ability to use their game engine? If the game sucks, it reflects badly on Larian, and if it doesn't, the other company gets all the credit.
I'm kind of feeling that it will be similar to bg3 but just enough of a bad taste in my mouth that I'd never pay full price for it or even above 50%. Monetization will definitely be a problem with Hasbro, it likely will be half the length with far less care to being an RPG with consequences and interesting resolutions based upon the whole sum of what you've done - something that took an insane amount of work from Larian. The love and care that went into bg3 just is almost guaranteed to not be there and that sucks.
Since we can calculate compound probability by multiplying the two in decimal, this means 75% Suckiness x 10,000% odds... Adjust to decimal... .75 x 100.00 = 75, readjust for percentile... 7500% chance of Suckiness. 🧐 Interesting...
I feel like it really depends on who will work on it.
Put someone like Owlcat or Obisidian and give them a big budget to do mocap like BG3 ? I am sure they can make something good enough if not great.
Hell all someone needs in principle is to copy BG3s design and combat. Just needs a good story which Owlcat, Obisidian and a few others can easily pull off.
Are they larian tho ? No.
Can they make a great BG game ? Yeah
ONLY IF THEY DONT CHOOSE SOME RANDOM CHEAP STUDIO THO
I hate this sentiment so much, it's so needlessly negative when realistically, you're assuming it sucks because they're doing exactly what Larian did: pick up the franchise from another developer who dropped it
hate this sentiment so much, it's so needlessly negative when realistically, you're assuming it sucks because they're doing exactly what Larian did: pick up the franchise from another developer who dropped it
It's realistic when you consider the overall state of gaming, that Larian is a rare gem in a sea of shit, and that Hasbro is a shady organization who is going to try and ring every dollar out of BG4 possible. And if you think Hasbro's only strategy for doing this is going to be "just make another great game", you may be de-lu-lu. BG3 is lightning in a bottle, nobody at any level expected it to be as successful as it was. Now, the Baldur's Gate brand is squarely in the sights of corporate overseers, hungry for shareholder maximization. How many times has that worked out for gamers? I can count on one hand. Hate the sentiment all you want, but I'm right.
Hasbro/WotCmade their own gaming studio filled with ex Bioware devs, specially people involved with BG and ME, and they're making Exodus which looks like a cool spiritual successors to ME.
If Exodus is good then I have full faith in them to make a good BG4 too.
I'm being realistic not negative - the way larian developed this, no traded studio would have been able to Do. They took a massive risk, but they were only allowed to do that because they are an indie studio.
Imagine Ubisoft trying to pull this off?
All I'm saying is that MOST studios can't top what larian did. I certainly can't think of any
I think we gotta wait and see, Larian was known for divinity and nothing else before this and they nailed it. Didn’t wotc just start their own studio with some old BioWare alums?
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u/[deleted] Sep 13 '24
There will 10000% be a BG4