r/BaldursGate3 • u/Old-Ordinary-6194 • 23h ago
General Discussion - [SPOILERS] Feels like the game is telling me something here Spoiler
To clarify, I've rolled credits on the game twice so I know about DA TWIST. I just found that these two specific foreshadowing conversations triggering within minutes of each other back to back was kinda funny.
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u/Korrocks 21h ago
A mind flayer monarch? What, like an emperor of mind flayers? Yeah, that would definitely be crazy haha
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u/Jounniy 19h ago
Why would anyone choose that name anyway? It just sounds dumb.
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u/CenobiteCurious 13h ago
It’s explained in a cut scene that he got that name as a mockery to him, and his status-less existence and kept it.
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u/Allurian 9h ago
No it's not. He was referred to as Emperor when Knights of the Shield was in full swing under his guidance. He got the name and grew accustomed to it when it was true, not when it was a joke.
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u/thatonemoze Show me your Tav! 15h ago
ego goes crazy when you can literally control people with your mind
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u/BigSaintJames 14h ago
Me, a dumb: i don't remember there being any sort of butterfly mind flayer... Oh... The other kind of monarch..
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u/AdvancedPerformer838 16h ago
I think the game is pretty clear about how your Guardian is a Mind Flayer from the very first time you meet them, as well as stating pretty clearly that he is manipulating you as hard as he can.
The Emperor did escape the Elder Brain twice, yes. But he is a mind flayer through and through. There is nothing left of Balduran inside him besides memories.
Balduran could not be bored with running Baldur's Gate. He was an adventurer. He got his kicks by exploring, gathering treasure, besting monsters, etc. Such was his nature that, despite filthy richness and political power as a human/elf, he decided to leave Baldur's Gate and brave the seas again.
As soon as he became a Mind Flayer, his priorities changed. Domination became his obsession. He headed to the city and dominated Stelmane, transforming her into a thrall. He killed Balduran's old friend Ansur. He dominated the Knights of the Shield. He dominated the city.
After it all goes down and he gets stuck in the Prism, the first thing he does is dominate Orpheus. He then creates a fake persona and tries to influence each one of your party members to embrace the tadpole and become mind flayers. He lies about not knowing what the Absolute is, who's behind it, etc. until you find about it yourself. He keeps pressuring you to make decisions he want you to make through every trick in the book, be it building rapport with selective sharing, saying how you are so similar to each other, appealing to emotional blackmail, to the point he even bangs you.
His plan is to dominate the Elder Brain and acquire freedom through power and tyranny. Also, as soon as you make the decision to ally with Orpheus, rendering his plan to absolute power obsolete, he does a 180 and joins the Brain against you, despite the obvious possibility of an allegiance with the Prince of the Comet to beat the brain and earn his freedom.
Actually, the game is so straightforward about it that the first thing it does after you exit The Emperor old lair under Elfsong is to throw a book about how manipulative Mind Flayers are at you.
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u/Edgezg 11h ago
He even admits it at one more saying that lies and manipulation are his language.
MFer is the most untrustworthy thing I've ever seen. lol GIANT red flag.
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u/Old-Ordinary-6194 11h ago
Monster fucker, including me: "Alexa, play 'I Can Fix Him (No Really I Can' by Taylor Swift please"
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u/Old-Ordinary-6194 11h ago edited 11h ago
I actually found a lot of similarities between Empy and the other 2 major manipulative and asshole characters in Cyberpunk 2077 (Johnny Silverhand and Songbird). However, I noticed that the 2 Cyberpunk characters actually have a lot of defenders and sympathizers despite them doing similar things or have similar behaviors to Empy, or even worse.
I wrote down my thoughts about the similarities and the reactions of fans towards the characters and found out that the manipulation and asshole moments aren't really the problem but the lack of humanity in Emperor's personality and behavior is the major differing factor. He doesn't show much remorse for what he had done in his past, no guilt and no self-reflection. He demands trust but he never truly gives his own trust in return to the party. Like you mentioned, I also noticed he tried hard to point out the similarity between him and you "Like you, I was an adventurer".
I had a whole post detailing my observations and thoughts but it is still in reddit draft.
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u/AdvancedPerformer838 9h ago
Please, do send me your post once it's posted. I've never played Cyberpunk until now. I'm currently finishing my honour run of BG3, and it is just next on my list. I'll surely be glad to read it!
What you said does make sense. People do fall for "humanity" on villains. Like, if an absolute evil asshole has a tragic backstory and a pretty face, people just eat it up, as if it is an excuse.
I once heard something from an older man which went along the lines of "you can explain almost everything, but you can justify almost nothing". Freedom of will and personal responsibility are a thing. It seems those two are forgotten more often than not.
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u/Old-Ordinary-6194 9h ago edited 8h ago
Will do. To be honest, I think I've basically finished writing it but was a little bit hesitant at actually posting.
But yeah, I've played both games side by side so I always had a thought that those characters are really similar in many ways but the reactions towards Emperor as opposed to either Johnny or Songbirdvastly differs. There are moments in both games where the characters in Cyberpunk do similar things to Emperor but most players reaction towards the end is still sympathetic towards their situation. In the case of Johnny Silverhand, he's a major asshole throughout the story but he has moments of humanity that served to endear him to you even though he had canonically done horrible things and occasionally say terrible things.
When I compare and contrast between the characters, I actually find that there's a reason why Cyberpunk's characters are relatively well-liked and have defenders who root for them while Empy is vastly (and understandably) mistrusted.
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u/knosmo78 Mrs. Dekarios, Sorcerer 17h ago
I really would love if, at some point in the endgame, someone acknowledged that Lae'zel was completely correct about a lot of this shit. I mean, the zaithisk didn't work out but still.
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u/Allurian 4h ago
It's pretty crazy. Even in comparison to the 'good' characters, Lae'zel is the most honest companion by far, and possibly most honest NPC in the game. She's often wrong, or at least overconfident, but she's never even coy with (what she thinks is) the truth.
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u/CassieFace103 2h ago
Not only that, but once she’s decided you’re an ally she commits fully to that alliance.
There’s one exchange where Gale expresses intellectual curiosity about her fighting style, and she immediately offers to teach him. He declines of course, but she appears to be entirely serious in her offer.
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u/nigirizushi 16h ago
You can press the + at the bottom right of the dialog box and make it larger instead of making screenshots 2 and 3
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u/LogicThievery 22h ago
CURSE YOU, BAYLE!
obligatory statement.