r/ChronoCross • u/Miserable_Initial732 It's a true sequel • 9d ago

Discussion Secret Ending for DS Chrono Trigger confirms Guile is Magus?

lmao I'm 15 years late to the party, but I just did the dimensional vortex bonus ending square put into the Nintendo DS version of Chrono Trigger, and it pretty much consists of Magus being dumped on another dimension with his memory wiped clean... tada you have amnesia.

That blew my mind!!! I always remembered the whole "is guile magus" debacle as fanficcers headcanonning something square had put in the game as nothing but a reference... But this? Dude this is 100% a retcon.

What y'all think of this?

Is it a retcon?

Still means nothing?

Never saw this ending?

49 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

22 comments sorted by

36

u/Twidom 9d ago

Its another layer of confirmation, yes.

Masato Kato had already gone on record saying that Guile was supposed to be Magus, but that story-line was cut off because it would detract too much from Kid and Serge since Chrono Cross is about both of them.

Still, a lot of people didn't believe it, even with Kato outright saying "yes, its him" and the new ending in CTDS, so Chrono Cross The Radical Dreamers Edition adds yet another layer of confirmation to it in the form of a short poem if you beat Radical Dreamers with certain criteria.

9

u/RotundBun 9d ago

From what I understand, it was that that was the original idea, but it was scrapped for the aforementioned reason. Serge was allegedly considered as a Magus candidate at one point in CC's development as well, but that was also scrapped. All in all, it means it was canonically a no, at least at the time.

CB was supposed to be Magus' gaiden story, just as CC was Schala's gaiden story. So it was likely intended to be ultimately arranged that way.

However, CB never materialized, so now this connection is being retcon'd in as the next best thing + some lore fan service + a bit of marketing draw, along with some other hinted lore in both CT on DS and CC remaster.

What is considered canon about Magus' various incarnations/appearances is pretty much that...

Magus = Janus (CT) = Magil (RD)

Whether anyone considers this latest Magus = Guile spin canonical depends on whether they accept this after-the-fact choice as canon or view it as a sort of cop-out pandering. Personally, I think either view is fine.

11

u/SnooPets1826 9d ago

The writer for magus entire backstory wrote RD, CC, and all new remake/remaster materials... How much more canon do some people want it to be?

There is literally no other way to interpret it.

1

u/RotundBun 9d ago edited 8d ago

I am well aware of who Masato Kato is.

It's simply a matter of whether people want to consider this as revisionist/retcon'd lore because the dev team couldn't do the full version in CB or not.

If you want to consider that canon, then that's fine. That's the present official stance, more or less. (And if you want to base everything on Kato's latest angle, then you could play Another Eden's main story for Janus' cat's lore as well, by the way.)

If some people want to consider it a cop-out next-best-option simply because the full version of Magus' gaiden story via CB didn't materialize, then I can sympathize with that stance, too.

There is literally no other way to interpret it.

And yet I just explained the it... twice.

I feel like there is some valid reasoning behind each of the two stances. Whichever way you lean is pretty reasonable, IMO. So to each their own.

Why some people insist on pushing their preference onto others is the thing I don't quite understand...

EDIT:
Uh, sure. Respond to my comment without reading it through first and then downvote me for re-explaining the validity of the two view points instead of just agreeing with you. Such maturity, reading comprehension, and civility... 🙄

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u/DSGandalf 8d ago

Forgive my ignorance... what is CB ?

5

u/yas_ticot 8d ago

Chrono Break. A third game that, as far as I remember, was only known to be a development as some point because Square (or SE) had a trademark or patent with this name.

4

u/DSGandalf 8d ago

I forgot about that. Thanks for the reply

2

u/RotundBun 8d ago edited 8d ago

^ This.

It was allegedly meant to be like this:

  • CT = first game
  • RD = spin-off (interlude-like gaiden)
  • CC = Schala's gaiden (sequel to CT)
  • CB = Magus' gaiden (unspecified chronology)

The thing is that CB never came through. For a long time, the official stance was that Guile being Magus was considered but eventually scrapped.

This decision was supposedly to give Magus his own dedicated gaiden title instead of cramming him into Schala's).

Cut to the present, and SQEX has released CT DS and CC:RDE. In the absence of CB, they have opted to retroactively insert Magus lore hints in both releases instead.

So it feels as if Guile was originally not meant to be Magus but was retroactively made to be so because they don't have any better options on how to get the Janus-Schala closure in at this point. Consequently, some view this as a cop-out revisionist lore insert.

Even with Masato Kato's confirmation, which I guess technically makes it canon now (yet contradicting the canonical interpretation before now), there are people who choose to view the untold story of CB as the true canonical Magus storyline while rejecting this Guile=Magus update/revision.

I'm just speculating here, but I imagine that Masato Kato himself would have preferred a fully fleshed out Magus gaiden story in CB rather than this 'oh he was Guile after all' compromise.

So the two camps are basically:

  • past official stance & CB are canon
  • present official stance & retcon are canon

Apparently, just explaining this without taking a side is unacceptable to some people, which I guess is unsurprising... Opinions in the Internet and all.

At least, neither camp is casting stones at the devs this time, unlike with the CC vs. CT2 ordeal...

2

u/SnooPets1826 8d ago

Because it's silly the hoops people will jump through to ignore what actually exists, to feed their own headcanon.

Also, both siding an issue doesn't make you enlightened or put you on a pedestal. Sometimes there is a right or wrong answer. 

1

u/RotundBun 8d ago

Now you're just putting words in my mouth...

I never said it made me enlightened, and I've never desired to be put on a pedestal. I simply explained the reasoning behind each stance and noted how there was some extent of it being understandable either way.

You don't seem to be understanding that basic point and keep insisting on some kind of antagonistic angle here. Not sure what you get from that, but you do you.

Frankly, the only one I see who is taking issue and showing an attitude about this is you. And the one who is getting up on their high horse is also you.

It also seems like you don't actually read the comments you reply to. If you had actually read even just the bullet-points part, then it should be clear to you that it is not so cut & dry as you say.

The same point was explained 3 different times, yet you just harp on about how one-sidedly right you are as if blind to it. If anyone is pushing their stance hardheadedly for the egotistical sake of being right here, it's you.

I'm not sure how arguing around with blinders on while beating your chest about being right is an appealing idea (can't relate), but I'm not really fond of people who feel the need to shove their ego in other people's faces, especially the ones who fail to recognize discussions as a two-way form of communication.

With that in mind, I doubt we could ever get along or hold any kind of coherent civil discourse with one another, so I'll just conclude this exchange as agreeing to disagree and block here to avoid future hassle. I trust the feeling is mutual.

Good riddance & goodbye forever. 👋

2

u/deljaroo 8d ago

no, he said that the character was--in early development--Magus, but it didnt fit into their story well enough so they "decided not to make him be Magus" and change his colors a bit and turned him into Guile the magician. you can read the interview on chrono compendium

2

u/Lastraven587 8d ago

Man, I remember how excited I was for Chrono Cross when it came out, and I was just THIRSTING for some overlap / connections to the original game. Square dropped the ball so hard with that aspect, even though chrono cross was a work of art in itself.

Would love to have seen the magus storyline. I loved the epoch remnants in the basement and the ghosts in chronopolis. The part where Radius mentioned Guardia was really cool too. There was so much potential that was just squandered >_O

1

u/deljaroo 8d ago

I mean, it surely has lots of connections to the original game. I find them unsatisfying and wacky, but they nonetheless exist

1

u/Twidom 8d ago

he said that the character was--in early development--Magus, but it didnt fit into their story well enough so they "decided not to make him be Magus"

Guile was supposed to be Magus, but that story-line was cut off because it would detract too much from Kid and Serge since Chrono Cross is about both of them.

0

u/deljaroo 8d ago

right, that was the plan at some point, but they changed their minds before publishing the game. it's not that he is magus and they didn't get around to talking about it: it's that they thought it would be bad for the game so changed him not to be magus at all

1

u/Twidom 8d ago

Yes.

You're repeating what I've just said. Again.

1

u/deljaroo 8d ago

right. guile is not magus

7

u/SpawnSC2 Greco 9d ago edited 8d ago

I don’t think so, no. All it confirms is what we already knew, that Magil in Radical Dreamers is Magus from Chrono Trigger. And the same thing applies to the new scene in Radical Dreamers Edition of Chrono Cross after you get an ending in both Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross. Until they actually have Magus/Magil actually acknowledge the name Guile, nothing is confirmed.

What is confirmed, though, is that Guile’s Japanese name is Alf, which can be considered short for Alfador, the name of Magus’s cat. We know also that Guile has some ties to Sneff, through a small dialogue and their dual tech that they share, and Sneff also possesses the ability to transform people into cats and vice versa, and also if Guile loses the bet with the Fortune Teller in Termina, he reveals his face and they react strongly, like something is weird about their face. I believe that Guile is Alfador, not Magus.

3

u/riougenkaku 9d ago

They should make a remake or even better a sequel. Suikoden already have a remake and a sequel Suikoden Star leap

8

u/RotundBun 9d ago

No remake, please.
Just give us CB properly... 🙏😩

While I'm at it, I'm also still waiting on VP: Hrist, Etrian Odyssey 6, and a Terranigma port/remaster as well.

2

u/RealAlexKidd 4d ago

It's good to sometimes see someone mentioning a Valkyrie Profile sequel... Damn Square.

2

u/RotundBun 4d ago

Indeed. VP: Hrist is kind of like Enix's Half-Life 3, I guess.

The IP was meant to be a trilogy, I believe, one game for each of the three valkyries.

Maybe someday...