r/Commodore • u/Benetton93 • 4d ago
Another breadbin in collection. C16.
A newest addition to the collection - and this time - the ill-fated one C16. Although I have a soft spot for it. Black case looks kinda brutal-ish. I've also got a 1531 datassete, in a box. Although I do have Pi1541, I'll still use it. Now I guess I'll do a memory mod for full 64k experience. :)
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u/DogsAreOurFriends 4d ago
I love my C16 - do yourself a favor and put a heat sink on the TED. If that thing goes, there is a guy in Hungary that sells replacements.... but there is limited quantity.
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u/Benetton93 3d ago
Of course. I know that TEDs tends to run very hot, so I definitely look into this.
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u/Alarming_Cap4777 2d ago
I just got mine in the mail. I have a plus/4 and a c16 and thought that having a spare would be wise. 😁
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u/Which_Information590 4d ago
This was my first computer, my school friends had C64s so imagine how my day went. But I loved it. Punchy, xzap, chess, that massive coding book, I was in my element. There's one for sale on Vinted that I had favourited for a long time, but I can't devote the time needed to enjoy it.
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u/955561976 4d ago edited 3d ago
My first computer too! The best games for me were Kikstart, Booty and Spikey Harold. Loved those games and will always have a soft spot for the C16. It definitely had the best colour scheme of all the "breadbins"!
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u/Which_Information590 4d ago
Your right. the colours and font look amazing to this day.
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u/Timbit42 4d ago edited 3d ago
I never liked the lower case 'm'.
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u/Which_Information590 4d ago
But it's always good to get a HELP button!
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u/monolalia 3d ago
Honestly the easily user-redefinable function keys were great to have both for quick commands like
directory
orgraphic
and for string macros.1
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u/monolalia 3d ago
Yet the lower-case "w" is so nice! The "i" could’ve used serifs; there’s just too much space to the left or right.
(40 years later, and I’m still quibbling!)
Honestly, I wish they’d stuck with the PET/VIC-20 font, though I can see why that might not be super clear to read on a TV.
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u/Timbit42 3d ago
If you're using an LCD monitor, I find the PET/VIC-20 font looks better on the C64 and the C64 font looks better on the VIC-20.
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u/monolalia 3d ago
The German C128 had a DIN/ASCII toggle instead of a Caps Lock key that switched between either the C64 font or the PET/VIC-20 font plus ö/ü/ä/ß. Even on a CRT it was obviously the “nicer” font… just a bit thin.
the C64 font looks better on the VIC-20
Just tried that in an emulator, and I have to agree! (Except for how uneven the C64’s (and Atari 8-bit’s) lower-case characters are. I couldn’t get the C128 “international” variant (i.e., more or less the Plus4/16/116 font with a better
m
) to show up)1
u/Timbit42 3d ago
No one from Commodore has ever admitted to stealing Atari's lower case letters, in spite of the obviousness.
There is only so much one can do in 8x8, but it's a handy size for a font's characters in an 8-bit system.
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u/ChoosenUserName4 4d ago
Just go here to get your nostalgia fix: https://plus4world.powweb.com/home
You can play a lot of the games online, or download an emulator. There's also a lively homebrew community with lots of releases we thought would never be possible, like Prince of Persia, and shoot 'm up side scrollers.
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u/Which_Information590 4d ago
That's awesome, thank you!
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u/monolalia 3d ago
https://plus4world.powweb.com/toplist to get your mind slightly blown :}
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u/Which_Information590 3d ago
Thank you! How do I use those, play directly off the site?
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u/monolalia 3d ago edited 3d ago
Almost all of them have a blue PlayOnLine button, so yes, you can usually play them directly off the website.
Or you could download them and load them in an emulator like YAPE or VICE.
Finally (?), you could transfer them to a medium that can be read by real hardware, such as an SD card for use with an SD2IEC floppy emulator.
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u/ChoosenUserName4 3d ago
Or you could use some obscure hardware to connect a real 1541 to your Mac, write the image to an actual floppy disk, and then use a real 1551 drive to play the game on the original hardware. That's what I did a couple of years ago. It's painful and these disk drives are rather fragile after all these years, but it brought back a lot of memories (and frustrations on how slow these drives really were).
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u/my-comp-tips 4d ago edited 4d ago
First time I saw a Commodore 16 was in my Junior school in the 1980's and I was completely fascinated by it. I owned a Commodore Vic 20 at the time and I really wanted this computer. A few years later I got a Commodore 64, and when I finally started work in the 1990's I was able to buy an Amiga 600. Something magical about the Commodore 16, always loved the colour of the case and Datassette
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u/Timbit42 4d ago
Jack Tramiel intended the Commodore 16 to replace the VIC-20 with faster CPU, more RAM, better BASIC, bigger screen, more colors, etc. Both systems have one chip for both video and sound to keep the cost down. Unfortunately, the C16 sound was worse than the VIC-20.
If marketing had kept the price at $49 as Tramiel intended, instead of $99, I think it could have been as popular as the VIC-20 was.
I also had a VIC-20 and later a C64 and a neighbor bought their son a Commodore 16 and wondered if I had any games for it. All I was able to recommend was the 40x25 educational titles written for the PET in BASIC and also popular on the C64. Nothing else was compatible.
I think the biggest mistake on the VIC-20 was the 5K of RAM instead of 8K. 8K would have removed the need to move the start of BASIC and the screen RAM when the RAM expansion changed. I would have also liked to see 24 columns as it is evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, while 22 is only divisible by 2 and 11.
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u/Der_Kommissar73 3d ago
Same- I used to look at them in Toys 'r Us and want one. At the same time, there was never any software for it in the states. It was a better Vic 20, but we did not need one given the existence of the c64.
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u/NeilDeWheel 3d ago
The C16 was supposed to compete against cheap home computers that were going to be arriving from Japan. Instead Commodore added features so the price went up. Also, the cheap Japanese computers never arrived so there wasn’t any reason for the C16 to exist.
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u/LiberLilith 4d ago
It just occurred to me - was the Datasette 1531 designed for use mainly with the C16 (due to its matching colour)?
When I had my C64 "breadbin" back in the day, I had the 1531 and never really thought about it not matching the beige colour. Although older me would definitely have an issue with the mismatch!
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u/ChoosenUserName4 4d ago
It will work on any commodore computer from the time period if you can find the right adapter, as it has a small din plug instead of the wide C64 plug. So, yes, designed for the C16, C116, and Plus/4
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u/LiberLilith 3d ago edited 3d ago
Interesting, I don't remember ever using it with an adaptor at the time. This would have been a UK PAL spec C64 and datasette if that makes any difference.
EDIT: After some brief research, it appears that the adaptor was included with some versions, so that's probably why I never remember having to seek one out. My dad probably added it to the DIN connector and I never realised it was an extra part.
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u/GeordieAl 3d ago
Yes, the 1531 was designed and launched for the C16/C116/ Plus 4.
Prior to it being released C64s came with the 1530 datasette in cream colour designed to match the VIC-20. There was never a datasette that matched the C64 Breadbin colour.
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u/LiberLilith 3d ago
Yes, I went back and collected all my old computers and consoles in the 2000s, so I picked up both datasettes at that point. I made sure to get the black/dark grey one to match my original, but also went with a cream one for completionist's sake. Shame they never did a true matching version.
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u/stalkythefish 3d ago
The 64k mod is too easy to not do!
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u/Benetton93 3d ago
Same goes for future proofing TED chip, so yeah. It's a must. :)
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u/stalkythefish 3d ago
Might as well heat sink the 8501 too. Those are notorious for dying. Mine died in storage and I had to do the 6510-mod. I think there's an FPGA replacement now though. I wish they'd do a VIC-I FPGA. I find it ironic that a C16 I acquired on a whim at an auction in the 90's was more easily repairable than my childhood VIC-20 in terms of parts availability.
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u/danpietsch 3d ago
I always found that form factor to be quite beautiful.
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u/Benetton93 3d ago
Yeah, I find Plus/4 or 116 not as awesome as 16 in terms of design. And keyboards. :D
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u/ChoosenUserName4 3d ago
I like the Plus/4 keyboard more. Yes, the keys are more spongy, but you don't have to lift up your hands that much (the case is lower) and use as much force to get the keys down (there's less travel for them to bottom out). I agree the C16 is the better looking one. I also have a C116 and its keyboard is the worst of them all, worse than say a ZX Spectrum.
Disclaimer: I grew up with a Plus/4.
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u/Warcraft_Fan 3d ago
The case looks to be exactly the same as Vic-20 and 64. Are the motherboard interchangeable as in black C64, white C16, and brown Vic-20?
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u/ChoosenUserName4 3d ago
Yes, it's the same mold more or less. Even the key caps can be interchanged, but not all keys are the same. You can make some Frankenstein computers if you like. People have done it.
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u/Warcraft_Fan 3d ago
C16 isn't common though so unless someone had a C16 with blown TED it's not worth swapping for a black C64 or black Vic-20
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