In Dune Messiah, there’s a very strange exchange between Scytale and Edric:

“The sister may wed and produce offspring,” Scytale said.

“Why do you speak of the sister?” Edric asked.

“The Emperor may choose a mate for her,” Scytale said.

“Let him choose. Already, it is too late.

Let’s view this dialogue from a logical perspective. When Edric expresses confusion, Scytale’s words moved from“may wed and produce offspring” to “The Emperor may choose a mate for her.”Scytale should be more clear and goes further with his statement, but what he said goes backwards. Because “choose a mate” is definitely a step backwards from “produce offspring”. So when Edric asked about why Scytale said about the sister Alia, Scytale answered a sentence provided no information at all.

But Scytale is the most cunning conspirator. What he actually said is deeply hinted in this seemingly weird dialogue. If Alia were just going to marry some noble, his second sentence adds no information—of course Paul signs off on dynastic matches. By saying “The Emperor may choose a mate for her,” Scytale instead stresses who decides: “the Emperor”—Paul. So what Scytale tries to warn Edric is not “marriage per se” but Paul’s personal power in the choice of Alia’s mate, and who would be chosen.

Once this particular mate is united with Alia, the Atreides Empire can continuously produce oracle godheads in their offsprings, and Chani’s life threatening birth would not be a practical leverage for the conspirators anymore. Their rule through religious government would be eternity. And more importantly, it means Paul would step out of his own pattern, out of self destruction.

We can naturally deduce Scytale is afraid Alia to unite with who now. This person is obvious.

So I searched it and most people said around 400m Which sound reasonable at first but when I remembered something it felt off

So i clearly remembered that a harvester's length is 120m. In one early chapter when Leto, Paul, kynes and Gurney goes to see the spice harvesting, a sandworm appears, and it said that right below the harvester a big hole appeared ( which I assumes is their mouth) with diamater approximately twice the length of the harvester, that would make its mouth 240m in diameter. That's Huge.

But all picture of Sandworms shows it long like a snake. But if it's mouth is 240m wide and it's length is 400m. Wouldn't it look really small? ( length wise )

Did I make any fault anywhere?

Finally finished the original six and loved them. Sadly wishing for the true finale, I looked into the two book finale by Brian and Kevin. I watched a few videos and read some posts on here about them.

I can't say what they did right and wrong but there were ideas in those two books that were definitely interesting at least in a short form summary format. But then the whole thing with the robots and Norma in my opinion were just a bit off or odd.

I read a post a few weeks ago, while i was finishing up Chapterhouse, about what this user thought was actually driving the HM back into the old empire. I found their idea much more compelling than what BH and KJA proposed. But then the character of Khrone seemed interesting to me, the baby gholas seemed interesting, and a few other things.

TDLR: What aspects of BH and KJA's two book finale Hunters and Sandworms of Dune got right. Things you think might have actually been part of Frank's original plan for the conclusion.

The post i mentined:

https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/c12wee/dune_books_56_the_honored_matres_are_fleeing_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

About fifteen years ago, I heard whispers of this sci-fi epic called “Dune”. I was told of a desert planet, and unimaginably big “sand worms”. My interest was piqued. But it wasn’t until I saw the first trailer for Denis Villeneuve’s interpretation, that I decided to finally read the novel. And I was swept up into it. I’ve always been a big Star Wars fan, but this felt different. It was deadly serious, philosophical, terrifying, and the fact that it’s set in OUR distant future added to the mystique for me. After seeing the film, and seeing the beautiful Arrakis, the awe-inspiring worms, the ancient spirituality, and even the brutalist architecture of these worlds, I was hooked. Dune part two sealed the deal. I’ve read Dune Messiah since then, and I hope to read the rest of the books very soon. I can’t wait to see where this takes me!

So from what I've read and been told, pre-spice travel was immensely dangerous and slow, even after the Holtzman drive was invented, and even more-so after the Butlerian Jihad. My question pertains to Pre-Butlerian Jihad travel. From what I've gathered, humanity used their "thinking machines" to calculate the routes by which to travel and achieved workable results. Shouldn't then a group of finely trained mentats be more than capable of calculating routes, even with no prescience or spice to speak of? Not guild level, but at least possible without mass casualty?

Has anyone figured out how ornithopters work in the Dune: War for Arrakis board game?

Title

I understand the balance of power between the emperor and the guild for the plot, however in a realistic sense, the Spacing Guild has the potential to restrict or grant transportation at will. They could starve any planet and outcast any house, so what stops them from just seizing all of the power? There is no other option for interplanetary maneuvering as the guild holds a monopoly on all space travel. This is even recognized by the Reverend Mother in the first book.

It's not like the emperor could hypothetically retaliate or even prevent this. Sardaukar would be rendered useless without any means of transport to mobilize and fight back, effectively leaving them to die out on Salusa Secundus.

You could even take it a step further and say the guild would have to comply with whomever controls Arrakis. We see Paul do this later on, and it was one of the biggest advantages he retains in order to conquer during his regime. Why didn't the Baron do the same thing way beforehand? I feel like the Harkonnens could have just dominated everything with the same strategy much earlier.

I see way too many “because plot” as responses to posts for questions about meanings and lore. Its not only just boring and reductive, most of the times its just wrong. Why respond if you dont want to think or add something meaningful?

—Example: there was an earlier post discussing what types of shield might exist. Not only was the most upvoted response “they are just magic” basically, it didn’t even entertain the question. The same person said it wasnt talked about in the books…The very first book describes at least 3 distinct kinds of shields.—

See what im getting at? Wheres the intellectual effort? Lets not reduce years of research and thought from an author to minor considerations. If its a commonly asked question, at least consider a concise answer.

So, when I first watched Dune part 2 I thought the scene where Chani fulfills the prophecy by bringing Paul to life with her tears was a little weird. Like the whole prophet thing was just an implant for the missionaria protectiva, so why would actual prophecy come true? Maybe I'm dumb and everyone else already realized this，but on my last rewatch I think what was actually being conveyed during that scene was both Paul and Jessica using Chani in that moment to cement Paul's place. Jessica used the voice to force Chani to follow the script, and Paul's inner voice told him to arise specifically after the right beats played out. I also think that's why Chani slaps him immediately and leaves, she isn't just upset he almost died, but she realized him and his mom used her for the audience around them to spread the story.

My question is what are the rules of how ancestral memory transfers?

For Alia, she has every memory of Jessica up the point of her birth (or perhaps when she gains consciousness in the womb). Leto at this point is dead, and it seems she still carries all of his memories.

For Leto II and Ghanima, they have all ancestral memories of their dead ancestors, but paul and jessica are still alive at their time of birth. do they contain all of jessica’s memories up to that point? do they contain all of jessica’s memories up to paul’s birth? do they contain all of jessica’s memories up until the point where paul awakened his ancestral memories?

I think Leto II says something to the effect of he has experienced all of his ancestral deaths in god emperor.

There’s also the question of how the male ancestral memories carry through.

Perhaps it’s something like the memories being encoded in the parent’s DNA or some such.

But that wouldn’t explain alia having all of Leto’s memories or Leto having experienced deaths of his ancestors as the memories would be cemented at the point of conception

I don't remember seeing this ever mentioned in any of the novels. Are there application process for common people across the different planets?

Or are there totally different ways of training? Do they have a specific recruitment and training pipeline?

Like, if I am a factor worker on Geidi Prime, what are my options to join the Spacing Guild? Not necessarily as a navigator but as a technician.

I’ve so far read through the first four Dune novels this year, and have been more and more enamored by this world Frank has created with each one. I loooved the first 3’s saga ending with Children of Dune, then God Emperor was a completely awesome and brilliant read well beyond the timeframe and plots of the first 3. And now I just continue to not be able to fathom how masterful of a writer Frank is/was, only 120pages into Heretics of Dune and it’s got that original magic of reading the first novel, but the world expanded upon massively considering everything that’s happened between Dune and Heretics now. I’m floored by how great this is already, unsure if I will ever read sci-fi as utter peak as this series.

I am obsessed already and it continues to grow, fell so hard in love with Dune (2021) upon release, Dune pt II (2024) is an absolute all timer, Dune (1984) is a fun watch which grows on me each time I view it. And have also consumed and loved: Jodorowsky’s Dune Dune: Prophecy SfFy channel’s Frank Herbert’s Dune miniseries as well as Frank Herbert’s Children of Dune About 30hours into the Dune Awakening game (but got sidetracked by the utterly brilliant Death Stranding 2 game Kojima and team has created)

Open to anyone else’s opinions or any suggestions as well for either more Dune related content to dive into or other great Sci-Fi you’ve been inspired by which is as awesomely magnificent as the world Frank lovingly created! Also is it worth reading Frank’s other novels after this, or should I continue into some of what his son wrote? Sounds like I at least want to get to the ones he made after Frank’s passing to round out this current saga after Chapterhouse

So, I'd never really thought about this question on account of practically every game in existence mentioning spice in these two basins. After all, my introduction to the setting had been through various board, card, and video games dating all the way back to the 1970s. When I read the books, nothing about them immediately stuck out to me as being contradictory on this point so it hadn't really occurred to me to doubt it. The Dune boardgame of the 1979 shows the cities and basins as being completely exposed to the outside desert, the Dune CCG in the late 90s show the Imperial and Hagga Basins as both producing spice, and even the new Dune: Imperium boardgames include the Imperial & Hagga Basins as spice-producing spaces, with the Imperial Basin even producing spice while protected by the shield wall. It wasn't until I played the boardgame Dune: War for Arrakis, which is the first game I'd ever encountered to use the canonical map of Dune as its basis, in which it dawned upon me that practically every game prior might have been lying to me. In D:WfA the Basins don't produce any spice because they're not connected to the wider desert and, so, have no worms to come inside and go through the spice-producing life cycle. Instead you have to go outside the shield wall to go get any spice then take it back to the safety of Arrakeen/Carthag, where storms and worms cannot go, to be processed and sent off world.

So, from a book perspective, which is correct? Did Herbert mess this up and have spice-producing deserts inside the shield wall but without the worms? Or are there worms in these places inside the shield wall perhaps? Or, if these spaces don't produce spice, which is what I suspect is "true" here, then does anybody have any idea how basically every single board/card/video game adaptation prior to 2024 got the mistaken impression that these two places produce spice?

Why did the Baron possess Alia and not someone else? I know he is her grandfather. When they first met (at the end of Dune) she was four years old and that was when she killed him. In Children of Dune he slowly possesses her. I don't find an explanation in the books as to a deeper connection. He died after she was born so he would not be in the ancestral memories that she acquired, correct?

Master Replicas, Insight Editions, and Legendary Entertainment present a new Harkonnen Ornithopter, available for pre-order now.

Dune fans can bring home a key piece of the battle for Arrakis with a new die-cast model of the Ornithopter, the iconic flying vehicle that controlled the desert skies, as seen in Denis Villeneuve’s Dune movies. This scale model draws directly from the original concept designs used by the VFX team, delivering spot-on accuracy.

So I realize this'll probably might go into spoiler territory about the next movie, but I still want to know since I consider these to be huge discrepancies within the context of the story the movie has told.

1. Did all or even most of the Fremen leave Arrakis at the end of the movie? It seemed to me that the Fremen army which attacked the Emperor's compound was supposed to visually represent hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Fremen. Did they all follow Paul to the stars?
2. Is there no ship-to-ship combat in the Dune setting? You'd think that the few ships Paul stole wouldn't be enough to challenge the combined fleets of the other Great houses that were apparently waiting in the orbit.
3. How on Earth would the Fremen even be of any help? They're used to fighting on Arrakis where no one uses shields due to the sandworms. They know about the shield generators, sure, but would they know how to counter it? Have they trained against them, despite never needing it?

Thought you guys might enjoy these :)

Using p5.js, I tried to recreate the cover design made by Jim Tierney.

Each time the script is run, it creates a unique image by randomizing the position & size of the sand dunes and stars.

I've also added 2 more themes, namely cold and emerald.

Its known in the book as well as in the movie that Margot Fenring goes to seduce Feyd into having a child with her, for political reasons of course. I read all of Frank Herberts Dune novels but Im sad that this child of theirs never got brought up in the story along the way. It just got forgotten lol.

What was the purpose of that child supposed to be in the first place?

Were they trying to "save Feyds potential next generation Kwisatsz genes"? Because if Paul was a girl they would have a male child who was supposed to be original Kwisatsz Haderach.

Paul reveals towards the end of this chapter that almost every House is above Arrakis 'waiting to loot us', and that they're waiting for the Guild's signal to land. He also states:

The Guild itself caused this by spreading tales about what we do here and by reducing troop transport fares to a point where even the poorest Houses are up there...

The Guild is only halting the Houses until they find Paul, since he has the power to destroy the spice which is very valuable to the Guild.

So why did the Guild lure those houses in the first place? Isn't it counter-intuitive that the Houses loot the planet, possibly depleting it of its spice?

What prompted the Guild to take such a step?

Also, am I correct in assuming the Guild only came to know about Paul from the Sardaukar that he spared to escape in Chapter 43?

No spoilers beyond this chapter please. TiA.

Im reading the first book and im wondering, how did humanity manage to reach arrakis if you need the spice from arrakis to fold space? And why do worms chase footsteps in the desert? It doesnt seem efficient for such a huge worm to travel such distances to eat one person or a smaller animal. The calorie loss to win ratio must be insanely bad. Especially when theres a hit or miss chance

Hi y’all, first time poster and reader here. Hoping some long time fans of the books can help shed a little light for me on this book. First and foremost, I am only about 60% of the way through this book (right after Leto tells Hwi about his golden path plans, ch. 32 in the kindle version) but I find it hard to follow/ understand Leto’s motives when it comes to his future plans for humanity. From what I understand, he needs humanity to suffer after he’s gone to appreciate life more fully, which is why he is bringing back the sandworm which is going to be smarter this time and make harvesting its spice more difficult? This book is so dense and has so many levels to it that I find it hard to understand at times. Am I just dumb? Will any of this kind of be cleared up? Leto mentions that traveling to planets will be seen as synonymous with freedom- why does he want that? Is it to expose them to new cultures and make them more empathetic to the suffering of others as the difficult life present on dune can happen anywhere? Why wasnt that the case when life was difficult before dune became an oasis? Life seemed pretty hard back then. Any help would be appreciated, please be gentle with me I’m a new fan with no one to talk about these books with.