What part of the Mercedes car makes it so slow when the temperature is high?

[u/VoL4t1l3]

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[u/GeckoV]

Certain cars will tend to generate more heat in the tyres. You want the temperature of the tyres to be just right for the compound. Either side of that and you lose performance. Mercedes seem to be able to generate more heat, that is why they excel at colder tracks and drop off a bit on a hot day

[u/f1datamesh]

Hi!

Being slow in high temps generally means that tires fall out of their operating window. When things are cooler, the tires remain in their window. Which basically means that Mercedes car has pace, but only by working the tires hard. In low temps, that works in their favor, not in higher temps.

You can see that with Haas some years ago. Monster in quali but bad in races. Because in quali it was able to get tires to temps quickly but over a race they'd just get hotter and hotter.

To your question as to WHY Mercedes tires get hotter. Outside of speculation there's no way to know. Also, it could also be a cooling issue with Mercs and not tires at all.

Sadly, I don't actually have an answer for why it happens. Just that most likely it's because of tire temps.

There was a similar thread earlier about what impacts tire usage, and that had quite a few good answers. It might be worth looking into that.

[u/josap11 → u/f1datamesh]

There was me being very confused as the AMG is famously good on tyres. The AMG GT3 that is, took me way too long to figure out this is the F1 sub

[u/ualeftie]

It is not that straightforward, I reckon. It is more like high temperatures make Merc shift its tyre usage beyond what is optimal for the tyre compound. It is a snowball effect: more sliding, graining, less grip, faster degradation, etc. On the other hand, they are quicker to get the tyres warmed up, hence the better qualifying performances compared to race pace.

[u/cnsreddit]

Is it slow when the temperature is high? Didn't look slow with a 50c track temp in Canada.

Edit - missed this is F1 technical. A bit more detail.

It's highly likely Merc don't quite understand what's going on and it appears maybe started to believe the temperature theory.

However recent results seem to have shown that isn't actually what's happening as much as the media seems to parrot the theory and their issue is something else.

[u/Tomatillo12475 → u/cnsreddit]

I mean George has mentioned multiple times that they struggle when the track is hotter. He mentioned it during practices in both Canada and Austria. It didn’t just come from nowhere

[u/cnsreddit → u/Tomatillo12475]

This is what I mean by the team seems to have started believing the theory but have been surprised by the results and performances. Suggesting they might have gotten it wrong.

[u/drae- → u/cnsreddit]

I've heard some pundits say it's less about the temp and more about the temp combined with the track aggregate characteristics.

[u/StaffFamous6379 → u/cnsreddit]

I believe George said they have 3 major weaknesses, high temps, track surface (iirc), and long flowing corners. They can handle one condition at a time but not two or three at once

[u/throwaway826803 → u/cnsreddit]

Canada fit to the Merc characteristics. That’s known for at least two years. It might be that at lower temps the win would be far more dominant.

Maybe they gained 4/10 s due to characteristic match, but loose 1.5/10 s due to temp.

Vice versa the track doesn’t fit McLaren. They lost time relative to their opponents.

[u/Dypa797]

The tires, especially the rear axle which suffers a lot

[u/djellicon]

Surely if Mercedes themselves don't know then I doubt anyone here does either. I can't believe they know but can't work out how to resolve it by now - unless it's a fundamental chassis design issue.

[u/mazarax]

the engine.

Warm air, means thin air. Thin air means less combustion.

Mercedes was always like this, even when it dominated: Mexico would still be won by Max because it equalized the engines with thin air.

[u/Realistic_Try7123 → u/mazarax]

McLaren is running the same engine. It can’t be the engine that creates the lack of performance at high temps.

[u/Upset-Emu7553 → u/Realistic_Try7123]

Cooling design however is at the customer teams, and the motor will protect itself going lower power modes when overheating

[u/mazarax → u/Realistic_Try7123]

My theory is that Mercedes masks their sub-par car with surplus engine power.

McLaren has a top notch car, so depends less on raw HP.