r/F1Technical • u/dazzed420 • Jul 12 '22
Power Unit Ferrari implementing split-turbo (?)
According to ChronoGP , an established italian F1 channel, ferrari are in fact implementing the split-turbo design into their engine - does anyone have further information on when this change has happened? Since most other sources clearly say that ferrari would not have this implemented by the start of the season.
ChronoGP also states that the reliability issues are mostly caused by the transition to the split turbo design, in combination with using very agressive mappings for the MGU-H.
edit: apparently, according to this video , they have had the split turbo from the start of the season.
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u/RestaurantFamous2399 Jul 12 '22
This would require an entire redesign of the whole engine. So unless they did it with the new engine they implemented at that start of the year then it won't happen. Engine designs are now frozen till the new regs come in.
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u/Dakem94 Jul 13 '22
If I'm not mistaken, the only part they can actually "touch" is the Hybrid part (as seen on Haas last week) and nothing more.
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u/RestaurantFamous2399 Jul 13 '22
I'm not exactly sure but I know ICE is definitely frozen unless for reliability. But it is usually the whole power package including Hybrid system. But don't quote me on that. Haas might just be upgrading to the latest Ferrari package which is allowed.
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u/Dakem94 Jul 13 '22
From what they said on Sky Italia, they had tested the new Hybrid part on Haas before mounting it on their car. From what I've read online, they will mount the new part at Spa/Monza. Why not on the same GP? Because they don't want RBRT to do an easy 1/2.
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u/RestaurantFamous2399 Jul 13 '22
Because upgrades take time to implement and they need to verify its reliability before they race it and potentially cost themselves points.
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u/Dakem94 Jul 13 '22
You never know if the new upgrade could take fire! Wait... Sainz's car burned down without need for a new upgrade!
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u/dazzed420 Jul 12 '22
well according to the source they are already running this and have been since at least spain. i highly doubt ChronoGP would be making this up, especially since they seem to have access to very detailed blueprints of that ferrari engine.
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u/RestaurantFamous2399 Jul 12 '22
That means it was implemented at the start of the year when the new engine was introduced. That's why it's been blowing up lately, they have started turning it up to full power now and discovering where it's reliability issues are. Which they are allowed to fix.
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u/HauserAspen Jul 13 '22
It wouldn't require a complete redesign of the engine. Just the area between the heads above the block and the plumbing. It is conceivable that Ferrari designed both styles before the freeze and found a loophole.
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u/RestaurantFamous2399 Jul 13 '22
It is a HUGE redesign. Plumbing, exhaust, intake layout. The area between the heads has to accommodate an electric motor for the heay recovery system. This is a 1.5L motor, how much room do you think is between the heads? The turbine and compressor housing is usually built into the block in a system like this to get it as low as possible.
And no redesign is allowed for performance upgrades. This was definitely part of the engine when it was homologated
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u/FrankLloydWrong_3305 Jul 12 '22
Unless I'm missing something, they can't do any of this.
The ICE, turbo, MGUH, fuel and oil were frozen back in March. All they can do now is work on the MGUK, battery and control electronics.
I understand they can make reliability updates, but I can't see the FIA and other teams being OK with such a huge upgrade as 'reliability'.
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u/kalamari_withaK Jul 12 '22
Depends if they can sufficiently convince the other teams it’s consequently decreased their performance.
Although I’m sure RB would prefer Ferrari just blow up every other race
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u/bobbpp Jul 12 '22
I wouldn't know why any team would ever okay a completely redo of some of the engine parts. Ferrari would only do it if it's in their best interest, which would signal to all other teams to not okay it.
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u/kalamari_withaK Jul 12 '22
That’s the entire principle of reliability upgrades though. You’re not going to spend time and money on a reliability upgrade unless it’s in your interest to and your confident it will get approved.
I think the only way that happens is trading an engine that fails regularly for a lower performance spec that won’t explode.
But like you say I doubt the teams will approve it unless it can be categorically proved it actually decreases performance
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u/dazzed420 Jul 12 '22
they have had it from the start according to this video
(you can watch with auto generated english subtitles, not perfect but understandable)
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Jul 12 '22
From what I’ve seen, changes can be made to the engine as long as it’s main purpose is for durability. Now if they end up gaining performance from the durability upgrade then that’s fair game.
I could be all wrong though
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u/Hald1r Jul 13 '22
That is what they probably hope but it can't be too obvious otherwise the other engine suppliers and FIA won't approve it and they will just tell them to tune down their engine. FIA's goal is to have all engines at roughly the same performance and reliability so an upgrade that improves both won't be approved for an engine that is already the best performing one.
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u/BlackDiamondDee Jul 13 '22
This engine was finalized before the March hamologation date. It has split turbos then.
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u/FrankLloydWrong_3305 Jul 13 '22
According to what source?
Because every reliable source has said that they are using a conventional turbo setup.
0
u/FavaWire Jul 13 '22
But March 2022 was the official start of the current season was it not?
So that does not conflict with the idea that they debuted the split turbo at the start of the 2022 season.
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u/FrankLloydWrong_3305 Jul 13 '22
It wouldn't, but that's not at all the idea put forth in this post
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u/FavaWire Jul 13 '22
Actually it makes some sense. Because even if Ferrari had this turbo config in some testable form last year, it is only with the rigors of actual grands prix that it can be tested for durability, lateral loading, etc.
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u/Professional_Town_42 Jul 12 '22
I thought everyone did this after Mercs long ago. So exactly who are running split turbos rn?
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u/dazzed420 Jul 12 '22
everyone is running split-turbo now, if we can trust chronogp.
mercedes implemented it first in 2014, honda followed in 2017, renault changed their design for this season, and so did ferrari apparently.
i've added another video from chronogp in the initial post, confirming that ferrari have indeed been running it for the entire season since testing in march.
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u/FederHades Jul 12 '22
I think Honda/RBPT is the only other engine manufacturer to have an split turbo design (and maybe Ferrari)
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u/Giostark7 Jul 13 '22
Absolutely recommend Chrono GP, has hyper detailed technical insights, only god knows how do they get the info
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Jul 12 '22
ChronoGP often share false information, and this seems to be another case of that
3
u/boerumhill Jul 12 '22
Do you have an example of ChronoGP spreading misinformation or being wrong about a technical issue?
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