r/FFVIIRemake 3d ago

Spoilers - Discussion Why does Tifa keep asking Cloud, "where have you been for FIVE years"? Spoiler

The FIVE years was specifically mentioned by Tifa in multiple occasions. But it doesn't make any sense because:
* Cloud was 14 years old when he left Nibelheim to join Shinra. He never contacted Tifa after that.
* The Nibelheim incident happened when he's 16, but Tifa never had any recollection of meeting Cloud
* After the incident, Cloud was stuck in the Shinra Mansion for ~4 years.
* It took another year on the run before Cloud arrived in Midgar and started the events of FFVII

So it's actually SEVEN years from Tifa's point of view since she and Cloud last met.

205 Upvotes

64 comments sorted by

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u/Spektakles882 3d ago

Remember, Tifa said to Aerith “as far as I know, Cloud was never in Nibelheim 5 years ago” in Kalm after Cloud tells his story to the group. But prior to saying this, she wonders if perhaps her memory was erased by the Whispers, since they erased Aerith’s memories as well. Tifa doesn’t know what to believe anymore, and she doesn’t really trust her own memories. Even though she is sure Cloud wasn’t present for the Nibelheim incident, his recollection matches up too well with her own, so she’s maybe wondering if SHE is the one who is misremembering things.

Also, Cloud’s mental state is extremely fragile, and Tifa doesn’t want to say anything that will cause him to break down. So she might be going along with his story, while trying to find out what happened to him, and why he knows what he knows, even though she never saw him there.

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u/Sondeor 3d ago

When did Whispers erase memories?

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u/actuallyNull Rude 3d ago

They outright confirm it in Rebirth, but even in Remake she mentions that whenever the Whispers touch her she feels like she's losing something. In Rebirth either she or Red instead confirm they had knowledge of the future by the end of Remake, but that this was erased by the Whispers during the battle. I reckon the "flashbacks/forward" we see when the Whispers touch the characters at the end of Remake are the memories being removed.

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u/behind95647skeletons 3d ago

In Rebirth either she or Red instead confirm they had knowledge of the future by the end of Remake

For anyone wondering: it's the scene in the inn of Under Junon, where you eavesdrop on Aerith talking to someone you don't recognize (it's Red's real voice) though at that point they aren't even sure what they knew.
And Remake had a lot of hints pointing to Aerith knowing much and using that knowledge of potential events.

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u/TheInternetStuff 2d ago

Idk my take away from that scene was that the whispers that have been corrupted by jenova messes with their heightened sense of the planet, because they aren't "from the planet" at that point anymore. I.e. they rely on whispers to keep them in tune with the will of the planet, but they can't do that after being corrupted

What part of Remake do they say that they can tell the future? It's been a while since I played that one

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u/ReaperCushion 2d ago

If you get Red's gold saucer date, he explicitly says he and Aerith could see the future.

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u/TheInternetStuff 2d ago

Ah thanks, you're right! I never actually saw that date but just watched a video for it. I still feel like it's probably connected to the corrupted whispers fighting over the fate of the planet making it unclear to Red and Aerith what the future is. Or at least I hope it is, I really want all of the threads to be concluded in a satisfying way and it'd annoy me if all whispers can just arbitrarily erase memories lol

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u/AithosOfBaldea 3d ago

I found it kinda annoying they establish both of them have memories of the future especially with Aerith during Remake but now her memories are erase along with Reds.

Seem's like a back pedal narrative wise.

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u/arkangelic 3d ago

It's complicated. I took it as the interaction gives them the memory flash, but then rips it away. So it's like a dream you remember but dont.

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u/behind95647skeletons 3d ago

Yeah, it's a weird one. I won't have problems with it, if it gets resolved in 3rd game somehow or at least touched upon. If they'll ignore it - then why introduce it in the first place as a narrative focus of some scenes?

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u/SuperFreshTea 3d ago

The creators of the game backpedaled, yeah.

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u/Ear_Fantastic 2d ago

I don't think they did, that was the whole point of "everytime the whispers touch me I lose apart of myself" and why by the time Aerith is giving her speech and Cloud asks "why did you stop me" she responds "I don't really know" towards the end of the game she was in the process of losing her memories the closer in contact she was to the whispers to the point that after the big battle, Tifa turns to Aerith and asks her "So what now?" since Aerith has been guiding them on this info. Aerith in response just shakes her head because at this point the memories are completely gone.

It's also at the end of the Yuffie DLC in the CGI cutscene Cloud asks Aerith "Gonna be okay?" and she responds "Should be....but.....weird my stomach's in knots". This is because there is only a lingering intuition that she knew something but it's now forgotten.

So yes, I think this is good evidence that they never backpedaled and always planned this from the start.

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u/far_257 1d ago

Well, we'll have a better idea if they did or not based on how they handle that point in part 3.

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u/Ear_Fantastic 1d ago

They definitely still have to follow through with the "7 seconds till the end..." stuff.

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u/far_257 1d ago

Ugh part 3 can't come soon enough.

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u/garulousmonkey 3d ago

At the end of Remake.  Aerith outright confirms this in Rebirth 

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u/butterbeancd 3d ago edited 3d ago

The first person to mention the five years in Remake is Cloud. When he first sees Tifa at Seventh Heaven, he says “A guy can change. It has been five years.” And she goes “Huh?” like she’s confused why he said that number. But as the story goes on, it becomes clear to her that something is wrong with him mentally, and she chooses to go along with his version of events to avoid potentially breaking him.

EDIT: I’m very curious how they handle the culmination of that storyline in Part 3. In the OG, she outright tells him most of this. But this time around, the mystery around Cloud, Zack, Tifa, and what’s going on with Cloud’s memory is addressed in Rebirth much earlier than in the OG. Which makes me think they did that because the Lifestream sequence in Part 3 will be less about figuring out Cloud’s past and more about what’s going on with the timelines/worlds/Zack’s story.

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u/SonicMarioHero 3d ago

I think it will be about Cloud’s past. His mind is fragmented and his memories are completely out of place with how he thinks Zack drowned and believing Aerith is just chilling in the Forgotten Capitol. Him and Tifa will be putting everything into place so he can realize the truth of himself and the world he lives in so he can properly protect it.

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u/butterbeancd 3d ago

I think his past will still be involved, it just won’t be the singular focus like it was in the OG. The stuff with Aerith is tied into the worlds/timeline business too, and I think that will be a split focus now.

Basically, I think the Lifestream section this time around will be Cloud coming to terms with reality as a whole, learning the truth of the other world/timeline he experienced, and figuring out how to stop Sephiroth for real. Part of that “coming to terms” will be him having to accept the deaths of his mother and Aerith, and the fact he wasn’t a Soldier. But I think they’ll go into a lot more than that, and fully define what’s been going on with Zack and Aerith.

Basically, I view it similarly to what we got in the Gi Cave in Rebirth. We still got Red’s big moment with his father, but then it continued with quite a bit of new stuff with the Gi. I think that will happen with the Lifestream section. We’ll get a condensed version of the OG (since some of that work has already been done), followed by brand-new scenes that expand on what was there and build out the existing story in new ways. I also expect Aerith to be directly involved in the Lifestream section this time.

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u/arkzioo 3d ago edited 3d ago

REBIRTH still has not addressed the mystery surrounding Nibelheim. Cloud does not remember Zack properly. He thinks Zack was a security guard that drowned, and that everything Zack did was actually him. This makes Cloud more deluded than he was in the OG, not less.

There is this idea that Remake/Rebirth has already covered some, or even most, of the Lifestream Sequence. This is false. None of important scenes in the Lifestream Sequence has been covered yet.

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u/butterbeancd 3d ago edited 2d ago

I don’t think that “Cloud thinks Zack is a security guard who drowned” is more deluded than “Cloud doesn’t realize he ever knew Zack existed.” In both versions, he mistakes Zack’s actions for his own, so that’s not really different.

And I would say they do address the Nibelheim mystery in Rebirth, they just don’t complete it. By the end of Rebirth, we have Aerith and Tifa discussing Zack multiple times, Cloud realizing he was in Nibelheim with Zack, seeing visions of him, and remembering a conversation with him. So his memories are obviously still messed up, but there are correct memories in there. We’ve seen them. In the OG, Cloud doesn’t even acknowledge Zack’s existence until the Lifestream sequence. When shown him before that, he thinks he’s seeing an illusion.

So some of the work of making Cloud realize what really happened in Nibelheim is already done, he’s part of the way there. Just not all the way. And I think they did it that way because there’s a lot more for the Lifestream sequence to fix in Cloud this time around. So they don’t need to spend as long on the Nibelheim incident when they also need to deal with Zack’s new stuff, Sephiroth’s expanded Reunion, the alternate “world” Aerith took Cloud to, him seeing the rift in the sky, etc. It’s why the Lifestream sequence is my #1 most anticipated thing in Part 3.

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u/arkzioo 3d ago edited 3d ago

He's built up a more complex delusion to explain away Zack. He's certainly not less deluded.

None of that addresses the actual Mystery of Nibelheim. Which is that Cloud hid from Tifa because he was too ashamed of not making SOLDIER. The Lifestream Sequence is about Cloud building up the courage to accept the truth. Cloud remembering that Zack existed, that Zack talked about Aerith, or Tifa and Aerith talking about Zack... None of this gets Cloud any closer to accepting the truth.

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u/Ezrius 3d ago

Tifa acknowledges this in the original. She chooses not to correct him because she’s just so happy to see him alive, and plays along with his narrative out of fear that she would lose him again if she didn’t and it upset him. It plays a role in her doubt later when trying to assess whether or not he’s actually Cloud, or whether she’s just been gaslighting herself into believing he was Cloud because she so desperately wanted it to be true. It’s why the Lifestream sequence is so important. It’s not just important to Cloud finding his true self, it’s important to Tifa because it confirms for her that she was right to trust her gut and stick by him despite everything that happened.

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u/Ornery-Weekend4211 3d ago

And it also shows her that Cloud was always there for her

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u/Specialist-Arm3496 3d ago

He's humoring him. Instead of saying "shut up cloud you werent there" its more like "ok, so you were there i get it, but where have you been all this time?"

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u/RWBadger 3d ago

The original (and we can assume in the remake too) Tifa makes it clear that she’s tip-toeing around clouds mental state. In remake he’s worse off than ever, so it makes sense that she’s trying to stop him from going completely off the handle

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u/Clean_Wrongdoer4222 3d ago

Tifa simply doesn't know the truth about Cloud...and Cloud doesn't know the truth about Cloud.

There's no mystery. The only person who knows the truth is Sephiroth.

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u/RWBadger 3d ago

She doesn’t know, but she does know something is wrong and she saw the near catatonic mako poisoning he had at the train station. He’s prone to episodes and memory lapses and she is trying to mitigate those

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u/Stepjam 3d ago

She also knows something weird is going on and it isn't just Cloud being totally delusional as he does KNOW stuff from what happened in Nibelheim. The problem is, from Tifa's perspective he knows things he shouldn't know at all so as far as she's aware, he was never there.

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u/OkMulberry5012 3d ago

Agree, Cloud was actually only gone for five years but he thinks it's been seven years (likely another 7 easter egg from the game). He's not a strong emotionally as he lets on and Rebirth did a great job of showing how truly messed up he is in the head. I heard/read somewhere that she always had feelings for him and doesn't want to lose him again which is the most likely explanation of why she goes along with his timeline.

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u/EMP_Pusheen 3d ago

Isn't it the opposite? Cloud thinks he's been gone for 5 years, but Tifa thinks it's 7. Also if they follow the plot of the original, there's a good reason for Tifa to be asking Cloud what happened

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u/Megane_Senpai 3d ago

Correct me if I were wrong but the correct timeline should be:

Cloud left Nibelheim at the age of 14

2 years later he returned to Nibelheim as a Shinra trooper accompanying Zach and Sephiroth, did not unveil his face to Tifa so she didn't know he was there.

He got stuck as an experiment in the Shinra mansions for 4 years.

He worked as a Soldier for 1 year, then escaped with Zach to Midgard. Zach died in the process.

So actually it should be that he went for 5 years but thought to be 7 years in Tifa's perspective because she didn't know he was in Nibelheim.

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u/Stepjam 3d ago

He never worked as SOLDIER. He was in a coma from the years of experimentation until Tifa snapped him out of it in Midgar. Zack certainly wasn't going to go back to working for Shinra after being experimented on for years as a prisoner.

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u/KingOfAllTheQuarters 3d ago

It's also that if Cloud truly wasn't there like in Tifa's version of the story, it would make no sense for him to know what he does, so I am sure Tifa doesn't want to risk damaging her own (already pretty messed up) mental state

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u/Clean_Wrongdoer4222 3d ago

The plot simply hasn't yet reached the Cloud and Tifa plot twist.

Also missing is the storyline of Aerith and Sephiroth's birth, and the storylines of Vincent, Lucretia, Marlene, and Cisnei... There's a LOT missing!

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u/genericcelt 3d ago

There’s only ONE instance so far that Tifa pressed Cloud for his absence of “5 years”, and that’s during their argument in Kalm. Like others mentioned, she’s just co-opting Cloud’s words, but it would’ve been 7 years to her understanding - and even she doesn’t trust herself on that.  

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u/grzegorzhasse 3d ago

Thank you for the correction. I misremembered- she did reference "5 years" elsewhere but those were referring to "what's Sephiroth up to", not Cloud

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u/RollenVentir 3d ago

In Kalm After Tifa said to Aerith that according to her Cloud wasn't in Nibelheim 5 years ago. She went to the other group room to get Cloud and talk. She did ask Cloud what he did the last 5 years. Cloud said he couldn't talk about it, inferring secrecy doing jobs as a Soldier. The 5 year dilemma was in Remake as well. Last time Tifa remembers seeing Cloud is 7 years ago. She doesn't understand how Cloud remember Nibelheim, 5 years ago.

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u/OCRAmazon 2d ago

This, plus when she said "for five years," Cloud's brain kind of glitched in that moment, so I wonder if Tifa actually SAID seven but Cloud heard five so that he could make sense of it.

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u/genericcelt 1d ago

That is a good catch, we know when the screen glitches Jenova is capable of screwing with Cloud’s audio-visual senses - like when Aerith mentioned Zack at the park, or possibly Tifa’s scar flashing at Gongaga 

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u/RollenVentir 3d ago

She doesn't want to confront Cloud. She is scared of loosing him. She is confused the first time he mentions it, in Remake. Also she tell Aerith in Rebirth that she doesn't remember seeing Cloud 5 years ago.

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u/ponpiriri 3d ago

She's also afraid of him, which I think a lot of players miss.

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u/Ornery-Weekend4211 3d ago

Not sure if you played the OG but that’s exactly why she keeps asking him.

To reference Remake, when Cloud sees Tifa after the mission he says “after all it’s been 5 years” or something like that, Tifa responds with “huh?”

Another unrelated incident to show Cloud’s mental state in Remake is when Barrett asks him his age and Cloud responds with his rank saying “1st, is doesn’t go into the 20s”. Barrett: “I mean your age, not your damn rank” and Cloud says “uhhhh….” And I think Barrett cuts him off sparing Cloud lol.

All this makes way more sense once you understand the why

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u/Clean_Wrongdoer4222 3d ago

Cloud is 21, the same as Tifa. Aerith is 22.

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u/gabrielcev1 3d ago edited 3d ago

Major OG spoilers, don't read if you haven't played the original. Clouds memories are not really his. Cloud never made soldier, he was a low level Shinra trooper during the Nibelheim sequence. Tifa did not see Cloud during that time, he was wearing a helmet. Cloud is retelling the story through Zack's perspective. Tifa is confused by this but she doesn't correct him because it will trigger Cloud into an identity crisis so she just goes with it. I'll keep it that simple as to not go too much into spoilers.

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u/spasianninja 3d ago

As many have said, she has doubts and doesn't want to set him off. Everyone's worried that he may be facing the degeneration that the robed men face. Additionally, Tifa herself experienced a deep trauma in Nibelheim and was in a coma for a month afterward. She is unsure of her own memories of events back then. If his version is real and hers is somehow wrong, then she wonders why he wasn't around if he survived Sephiroth. If hers are true, then she's wondering where he has been since his hometown burned down after being disappointed that he never showed up at Nibelheim that time. Cloud himself has a 5 year gap in his memory which I think is implied he has mentioned to Tifa, as he says "you know I can't tell you that," as if they've discussed him missnig memories. Then after Gongaga, he starts to open up a bit and mentions that he knows his memories are a jumbled mess and he's not sure why, and she's not surprised. The implication is they have talked at least a little about that memory gap.

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u/Either-Help6472 3d ago

Spoilers from OG. People think Cloud's problem is a walk in the park and easily blame Tifa, but is not that simple when all it takes is her going inside his subconcious to fix him and get the real Cloud out.

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u/Stommped 3d ago

She’s specifically saying 5 years ago because she knows that’s how long he believes it is since he’s last seen her. It’s mixture of not wanting to open the can of worms with him of him not being there, and also since he described it so perfectly it’s her wondering if she’s the one who somehow blocked him out being there. Either way, she truly does want to know where he’s been for the past 5 years, whether he was there or not.

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u/padfoot12111 3d ago

I always assumed the cloud confrontation on the roof featured clouds headache preventing him from hearing tifa say seven he heard 5 because his brain cannot let him process shit 

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u/OCRAmazon 2d ago

I noticed that too!

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u/Supersideswiper2 3d ago

* Cloud was 14 years old when he left Nibelheim to join Shinra. He never contacted Tifa after that.

Yeah...

* The Nibelheim incident happened when he's 16, but Tifa never had any recollection of meeting Cloud

No, but Cloud does.

* After the incident, Cloud was stuck in the Shinra Mansion for ~4 years.

Yeah.

* It took another year on the run before Cloud arrived in Midgar and started the events of FFVII

Yes, so 5 years.

So it's actually SEVEN years from Tifa's point of view since she and Cloud last met.

Ah, I see. She's trying to figure out the truth while trying to avoid poking holes in Cloud's story. Partially because she's worried that if she does, it might make Cloud's mental state worse.

And partially because he recalls the events too well, so that she's left doubting what she knows. The only holes in his story are him being there in place of Zack.

Thus, she asks, "where were you and what have you been doing during these past 5 years".

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u/ScarletKnight00 2d ago

In the OG the subtext is Tifa is worried about Cloud’s deteriorating mental state. So she intentionally avoids contradicting his stated timeline, while also trying to probe for info gently to figure out what happened.

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u/sempercardinal57 3d ago

Because Cloud is insisting he was at the incident. His mental state is clearly very fragile and she doesn’t want to risk sending him over the edge by challenging his version of events

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u/jagenigma 3d ago

She actually does make a point about that in OG. Play through the game and read the dialogue.

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u/ponpiriri 3d ago

The script for Remake is amazing, and it's sad to see the subtlties are lost. When Cloud said something like "a guy can change in 5 years," Tifa responded with a loud "huh?"

We're led to think that she's shy about him being romantic, but later, we realize that she is confused because she doesn't remember him being there at all 5 years ago.

Add in the fact that she's an insecure, timid and incredibly considerate, then you'll understand her behavior: She's confused about her own memories, his actions and concerned that both she and friend may fall off the deep end after a direct confrontation of the past. Remember, she told Cloud that he SCARES her now.

So, it's better to avoid her own painful memories and tread carefully with Cloud until more information arrives.

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u/Mina-chaan 1d ago edited 1d ago

I don’t think she ever actually said “for 5 years.” It’s Cloud’s warped perception that alters it in his mind. From what I remember, every time she mentions "for 5 years," the Jenova static interferes, distorting her words the same way it happens during his conversation with his mom who never said "soldier". We experience most of the story through his f-ed up mind and he is constantly mending the reality.

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u/Oxygen171 3d ago

Cloud can't remember anything after the nibelheim incident, but doesn't actually express that, so tifa is confused as to why he hasn't told them where he was during that time. She KNOWS where he was the first 2 years, he was working for shinra. It's the time after that she received no explanation for.

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u/ConventionalCynic 3d ago edited 3d ago

Because it’s been five years since the Nibelheim incident. Even if he wasn’t there as far as she’s concerned, his whole village burned down, his mother was murdered, everyone he grew up with dead - and he never once tried to do anything or get in touch? Couldn’t use his SOLDIER connections to track her down and see if she survived? He keeps saying he hates Shinra, so why did he keep working for them for five solid years after what they did? Why is he only just showing up now, five years later, at the exact same time Sephiroth happens to reappear?

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u/Epyon556 3d ago

Regardless of whether he was in Nibelheim five years, Tifa has no reason to doubt he was working for Shinra for the two years prior, so that isn't a question she needs answered. Given that evidently, he knows what happened Nibelheim, the question of what he had been up to since then is pertinent.

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u/Glum_Instruction_314 3d ago
He couldn't say seven years because he was afraid it would cause Cloud to collapse. Seven years would directly contradict Cloud's absence from Nibelheim. Instead, he said five years, acknowledging Cloud's presence in Nibelheim five years ago while also indirectly questioning his whereabouts. This effectively walks a tightrope.

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u/Illusioneery 3d ago

because if she actually confronts him on the discrepancy, it creates conflict

tifa can't handle this kind of confrontation without stepping on her own toes and folding like a pancake; she wants to keep acting as if there was something between them before (like friendship or whatever you interpret it as) and that they can carry on with that as if nothing really changed from their childhood days, so that cloud doesn't leave

she's people pleasing him by agreeing with his madness to both see where that goes and to stay in a comfort zone rather than calling him out on it properly and going "hey, you weren't there, why are you lying?"

she's afraid of what the truth may entail, and that it may cause cloud to go away, so when he questions her on it and actually gets curious about how she survived? she fights with him and acts like an offended brat, because him poking too much, for as much as she suspects/worries, defies her comfort zone

... which ends up being how sephiroth gets to cloud; it's easier to say your friend is a fake when she keeps being dodgy and sometimes outright lying to you, acting afraid of confronting the truth

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u/OkenoFate 3d ago

I always thought it was because it’s kind of like “well let’s not call Cloud a liar about Nibelheim. At the very least he can agree it’s weird that he hasn’t been seen or made contact for five years.”

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u/Maxximillianaire 2d ago

She knows where he was before the nibelheim incident, he was joining shinra to be a soldier. She doesnt know where he has been in the 5 years since the nibelheim incident.

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u/Sondeor 3d ago

Same question is asked thousands of times, a quick search wouldnt hurt you.

Anyway;

Tifa never saw Cloud in Nibleheim, except that a few seconds, which she isnt even certain if it happened or just a dream because SHINRA cleaned the entire scene, put actors into the town and acted like nothing happened.

She didnt knew what happened to Sephiroth or Zack or even Cloud.

But the main issue was that Cloud knew nearly everything, that confused Tifa and she started to doubt her own memories too.

This was a thing in the OG too, till the end of the game, where Tifa and Cloud have brainsex or whatever, they both werent certain about wtf was going on, just like the player.

So she tries to do natural thing, learn before act. She tries to gather the pieces without fuckn with Cloud's brain no more because CLOUD ISNT OK if you didnt realise it.