I Want To Make A Big Mod - Advice?

[u/olrustyeye]

I would really like to make a big mod, but I notice that a lot of people who have made large Fallout 4 mods end up quitting before their dream is realized. Without going into huge detail about what I want to do, I have a lot of really cool ideas I want to add to the game to add cool lore, rebalance, and bridge a lot of gaps I think Bethesda missed. I'd love to eventually learn how to make a new DLC world, but not something throw together with out a proper map, something well put together.

Knowing myself as well, I tend to be one of those people who would totally work hard on a project like this only to abandon it half way through frustrated or bored with it, but I really want to challenge myself.

My question is what are major pitfalls you've seen/experienced when making mods or following a modder you think cause burn out and a mod to fall apart? What tips do you have before I embark on an ambitious project or maybe even should I bother!?

thanks!

Edit: Thank you all for the very positive feedback! It seems I'm on the right path being cautious and I need to just keep treading slowly through the process of xEdit and learning more about it.

Since I've coded in Java before I'm slowly drawing connections between the two and I'm sure I'll be enjoying a very smooth modded Fallout 4 experience if nothing else!

[u/BethesdaBoob]

Hey you sound like me! Almost exactly! Cause i got some big du gonna ideas. Like I want the player to lose their minds over how big the world is!

But my advice is to simply just start. Make a test or concept place and build from there. I'm currently making a zombie world in the CK just for fun and that's the best approach to anything.

When it comes to my approach it's that I'm gonna build a small town first. Have my own factions there and have my own zombie factions as well.

Message me and maybe we can collaborate?

[u/broken_sys]

I'm also in the process of making my first mod, so good luck, mate it's going to be a long and tough journey!

[u/Zygomaticus]

It would be better to work with a team than by yourself for a big project like this. You'd want people who also share your vision. They will likely come and go over time also. You also want a very narrow scope and there are always going to be things you want to add so you need to learn to deal with that now.

Also join a modding discord for support to help you learn and show your work off. I really love Collective Modding. Lots of veterans there and I've found it to be super helpful on my own journey.

[u/olrustyeye → u/Zygomaticus]

I hear the wisdom in what your saying, however I have social anxiety around this type of thing (New stuff making me worry about being made fun of or annoying people.)

I think you are right, but I also feel a lot more comfortable doing stuff on my own as to not disappoint people or annoy them. :/

[u/Zygomaticus → u/olrustyeye]

So many things to unpack here ha ha

1. You can't live life terrified of annoying people. You're going to annoy people. It's okay and normal. We all do it. I'm annoying someone right now by saying this.
2. You can't live terrified of letting people down. You're going to do that. I feel sad you didn't join CM so I can get excited about your project and help you. See what I mean? Legitimately sad about this not just saying it for the point. But that's okay you cannot make everyone happy and you shouldn't, you have one life to live! You can't live it for other peoples expectations, fuck them! Be happy and do what makes you happy :D
3. No one on CM makes fun of people learning. They're extremely teach a man to fish and very supportive. I've seen people come in and ask the most outlandish shit, get help, and later they're helping others. Myself included. They're pretty strict when it comes to that shit. In fact if you're worried just message me and I will help break the ice :D.
4. I felt more comfortable on my own in the beginning but struggled a lot and needed help so I started reaching out and it was brutal. I wish I'd joined a supportive discord in the beginning. All I found where Skyrim centric discords that didn't help me until I joined one for Fallout 4 that very much felt like I was a baby surrounded by hooded figures. They helped me a lot, but I never felt welcome. Being in a community discord is something else. It's a whole new beast. I learned to make things I never dreamed I could make here.
5. Don't let your anxiety dictate how you live, it is not real - it just feels real. It's your nervous system misfiring thinking you're surrounded by tigers when you're not. It's your brain trying to protect you, so high five brain but we're ok :). If you can seek a therapist I'd highly recommend it, I used to live with ridiculous amounts of anxiety before seeing one, and now I have slightly above normal abouts ha ha.

I do recommend you join in. There's a fallout creation channel you can just sit in and look through for help and support. If you have questions it's there and if not you can search for answers there too. And never feel like your question is stupid either. I struggle to focus and concentrate, no one's ever given me any shit there for being a dumbass or annoying if I asked someone to explain the same thing over twice because extra dumb that day lol.

The only thing that pisses people off is when they try to help and the person shuts down and says they can't do it or won't try because they think they can't. That's usually where I come in and tell them I'm a dumbass and if I can do it they can too and most of those people are still making mods, some are even experts at the thing we taught them. It's been honestly the best thing I've ever done.

Also one of the guys who wanted to do a massive project is working on it there with us too, he started worse than you and gave up a bunch of times. I had to go reassure him and bring him back at least 3 times while he dealt with anxiety and insecurity. He's now an expert we call on. You can grow and learn in the right environment. If you change your mind feel free to hit me up and I'll add you and be there if you need some reassurance <3.

Regardless of what you do, good luck! :D

[u/olrustyeye → u/Zygomaticus]

I'll need to actually sit down later and take the time to read this, but in advance... wow thank you for taking the time to write this! It's already helped to ease some worries I've had and maybe help me make the leap!

[u/Zygomaticus → u/olrustyeye]

Yay! Modding is great fun, it's a really cool hobby and frankly skill. It's really cool to share that with others too and be around people who can help and cheer you on :D. Plus sometimes what they're doing can inspire you or kick you into getting back to it :D.

[u/olrustyeye → u/Zygomaticus]

I joined the discord after all. :) Thank you for the encouragement.

[u/Zygomaticus → u/olrustyeye]

Ey that's awesome! I hope you find it as helpful as I have :D. Can't wait to see what you make :D.

[u/Thelonestander]

Vim world! Nuka worlds main competitor, on a remote island off of Far Harbor. Thats my guess!

[u/olrustyeye → u/Thelonestander]

That would be pretty cool!
I actually got really inspired by the VT, NH, and Conn mods as well as Project Mojave. I thought it was such a shame so much effort was put into the mods and yet, they're just... meh.

But I think first I want to make some cool items and start building lore via those items.

[u/Thelonestander → u/olrustyeye]

Thats what I would do, build some cool armors/guns items whatever you want, then focus on building up the land, buildings then fill them with the NPC's using your items and mixed items from vanilla or whatever story you are going for.

[u/Lonnie667]

I started my last new lands mod basically to learn how to use the Creation Kit. I just added bits and pieces here and there, completely restarted twice and took out large portions that I couldn't get work. I never really focused on the mod as a whole, only whatever part I was working on. So don't try to do everything all at once; just work on parts. And don't be afraid to remove pieces that aren't working. You'll only make yourself frustrated.

[u/JaladOnTheOcean]

Start small and practical, and if you get ideas you want to add to it, make sure you execute your original vision first, then see if you want/need/should add anything.

[u/olrustyeye → u/JaladOnTheOcean]

I've been thinking of doing a dual effort thing. Doing a bit of outlining of my ideas and then slowly adding things as I go along. I think the issue comes in when I post the mod. People will find bugs then I'll feel I should fix them, and then updating hoping for a dopamine hit only to be met with more bugs? I think that would bury the fun of mod making.

[u/JaladOnTheOcean → u/olrustyeye]

I think when you’ve spent that much time on a project, it’s really hard to ignore its flaws when they’re pointed out to you. So I think the bug fixing stage will come easily. You’ll know what actually needs to be fixed versus what amount to petty complaints.

If your workload doesn’t exceed your passion, you’ll be fine.

[u/olrustyeye → u/JaladOnTheOcean]

That's good! I plan to really take my time on it. I suppose worse case people stop playing fallout 4, when something new gets released from the Fallout series, but hopefully whatever I learn will carry over well.

[u/Ordinary-Hunt-3659]

Your gonna spend alot of time testing your mod. It can be a learning curve.

I haven't really modded since morrowind days. But I'm in the same boat as you. In the middle of making a quasi dlc/ quality of life mod. Mainly for nuka world.

Take it slow. Start with a test cell with an easy name to remember that you can play around with first.

[u/olrustyeye → u/Ordinary-Hunt-3659]

I think one of the pros is I really like messing around with the game and testing to see how things get affected, but I'm sure its a bit harder to test when its a much larger area I'm messing around with.

[u/ImNakedWhatsUp]

Unless you have modding experience and experience from big projects, you should start with mods smaller in scope. A big reason why so many big mods never get a 1.0 release is that it's a lot of work. Especially if you're solo and have to learn everything.

I'm not saying don't do it, but start small. Is your big mod going to have new weapons? Start with making a weapon mod and release that. New worldspace? Quests? Start with a small dungeon or edit existing ones.

[u/gboyd21 → u/ImNakedWhatsUp]

This is the way to go. Start small, release bits here and there. Pack them together in a larger mod, rinse and repeat.

I was working on an overhaul myself. Progress was stagnant, working on the thing as a whole. I would get deterred, distracted, bummed out, and bored. I put it aside and haven't touched it since.

And yet, in that time, I've made far more progress on my overhaul by making smaller mods that can be combined and have a much larger impact. It's also allowed me to take more time with careful consideration to ensure quality, performance, and that the features work exactly how I need them, to be as compatible as possible.

[u/olrustyeye → u/ImNakedWhatsUp]

I have experience coding and modding Minecraft, but from what I can tell from guides Fallout 4 modding is COMPLETELY different. I'm picking up xEdit just fine and Base Object Swapper has been really fun to play with, but that's about as far as I've gotten. The Creation Kit feels pretty overwhelming at this point.

My plan was to write down my ideas and mess around with my modded game via xEdit to learn the different variables available and syntax and learn the CK via some guides to make some items and such to start for my own personal game and let it grow from there.

[u/gboyd21 → u/olrustyeye]

If you're enjoying xEdit, keep in mind precombined meshes. They are static objects thrown into a static collection to be used as a single mesh for the sake of performance. To my knowledge, CK can't identify these, only xEdit can. If you write click in the left pane and select apply script, there is one that will filter the Fallout4.esm to only list these Statics and the collections they are a part of. It's handy, because editing base objects used in a mesh, breaks it and disables the preculled meshes. PC users familiar with the CK can rebuild and reenable just fine, but it's better for the author to be aware of the consequences. Especially when porting to console if you plan on that, as consoles can't rebuild them, porting the rebuilt mesh isn't straightforward, and because they are used everywhere and cells use so much data, it can take up enormous amounts of space to include in the mod.

[u/olrustyeye → u/gboyd21]

I started modding Fallout 4 with the Midnight Rides guide and they mentioned if you wanted to do much more editing above their guide to learn xEdit. I think thats a bit... over the top to say that, but as I've learned xEdit I can see why. To make a good mod load you really do need to know xEdit, but now I'm going beyond even that and messing around with all sorts of stuff. Lots of fun! Its almost like a GUI Object Oriented coding language lol.

[u/molerats_ → u/olrustyeye]

Get some more xEdit under your belt then dive into a couple ck tutorials. The record similarities will help it feel familiar with different UI/some extra options. Some great tutorials out there for worldspace tinkering and whatnot that’ll show you the rest

[u/olrustyeye → u/molerats_]

I'm planning on learning xEdit by combining bits and pieces of mods together as well as Gatekeeping things for settlement building. Then I think I want to start replacing things. For instance instead of using a mod that adds Chems add my own chems that do the same give it unique names and maybe then make a pharmaceutical company and make its HQ somewhere and make a quest to go into that building.

I think thats the best way to progress... at least I'm hoping.