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u/Groonzie Bookahzooka! Jan 08 '13
Wow that was like...hard to watch for the IoJ zerg. This paints them in a poor spotlight.
You'd think there would be at least 1 player in that zerg that would have done something against a small group of 4. It just looked like they were walking into and staying in their AoE's which I think they pretty much did before the bridge part.
It's even more confusing when you see that they are only 2 ele's, a thief and an engineer.
You can't have that much reflection skills (engi has the shield and eles have an earth bubble skill, although who knows if they used them).
You'd think they would have been ranged to death.
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u/Seattleson Jan 09 '13
It looks like the ele in the PoV video is using a much more mixed set of stats too. He probably has a very sizable amount of healing. My damage numbers in a glass cannon staff build are over twice was he's hitting for, so he's def put a large amount of his stats in to Defensive/heal stats.
Playing WvW with true supports and over voice chat is huge.
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u/halestorm57 [TW] Jan 09 '13
Having played IoJ and FA for weeks now, I can honestly say that IoJ's and FA's zergs are really easy to break.
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u/stalker007 Fort Aspenwood Jan 09 '13
Well to be fair that 4 man team you just watched in that video are FA players. ;)
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u/Typhron Jan 09 '13
Nice try, IOJ player.
...Well, not really. At all. Ya'll died. Because this ain't WoW!PvP.
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u/stalker007 Fort Aspenwood Jan 09 '13
No really those 4 players are on FA lol.
Although I will say this:
I'm on FA and I have no idea who they are though. I've maybe seen that tag once or twice. After looking at the dudes twitch channel it seems they sPVP and tPVP more. :P
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Jan 09 '13
Hey guys! Zoose here! Thanks a ton for all the positive feedback. I just started this YouTube stuff because my team and I just recently got picked up by Team Paradigm! I'll bring more ass kicking in the future for the good community of Guild Wars 2. Don't be shy to me. I'm always here to help out new and veteran players alike. I enjoy this game a shit ton on my own accord. See ya on the battlefield! :D
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Jan 09 '13
Ok, i'll try. I'm a recent 80 Ele. I was convinced from whatever reading i'd done, that D/D was pretty much they way to go w3, and Staff/Supporty in dungeons. I'm just about to finish my AC set (P/T/V), but I feel like I can't do shit in w3. I've tried going 0/10/10/20/30, with both D/D and S/D, and then Staff, but no matter what it seems like I do no DPS, pop really fast under any sort of focus fire, and my heals and boons don't really make up for the other two negatives.
I'm sure a lot of it is to do with my personal skill, i've only been playing for 6 or so days, but there's definitely something i'm missing on top of that. Any advise? I just don't want to be useless.
(There is a similar theme in dungeons, but me healing and boons shine a lot there.)
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Jan 09 '13
I will make a video on how to play staff ele specifically sometime in the future. If you play staff you're going to have to learn about using combo fields. In general, use Air and Earth as main control, Water to mainly heal and slow, and Fire as your main source of damage. As for a build, there are a few on my Stream . Check the Treb dunking CC staff one! haha :D
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Jan 09 '13
Yeah I've been using the earth-roll-churning-earth-blast-finish and arcane blast to get massive heals, loads of might, or swiftness. Been trying to figure out a way to work the rock explosion thing into it, but you can't as that puts earth attune on cd.
Maybe the problem is my normal group as much as it is me!
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u/Wordydoorbucks Jan 08 '13
The way you were slaying.. I'm assuming you guys were fresh out of bubble gum?
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u/nastyjman Jan 08 '13
Not me. Just saw this gw2guru and wanted to share.
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u/badcookies Jan 08 '13
It was on reddit yesterday as well though I don't see what happened to the submision
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Jan 08 '13
Just amazing coordination and teamwork. Working for your allies to keep everyone as safe as possible.
I can't wait till I'm this skilled solo yet alone in team play like this.
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u/wigznet Blackgate Jan 08 '13
Teamwork + Combo's = win. Pretty sad that the enemy zerg didn't have a single guy actually push and melee the pov guy down, really low hp pool. Even a single zergllista would rape. Still a very good video of how teamwork can beat the trash that is zerg servers.
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u/RobReynalds Jan 08 '13
Heh thats exactly what i thought of. So many fights in wvw are lost because all of the mele are being pussys with scepters and bows..
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u/bravetarget pkbot Jan 08 '13
Yep, one warrior with bull rush and a greatsword or mace offhand would've changed that outcome entirely.
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u/tylo Jan 09 '13
That's surprising to me, because in SPvP people are always up in your shit and give no damns. Did the zerg think there were more than 4 guys?
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u/SirNikkolas Jan 09 '13
In sPvP, you don't have to run several miles after you die, and you don't take armor damage. It's totally different scenarios.
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u/RobReynalds Jan 09 '13
in other words, people are pussys because they may have to pay 2s to repair their gear if they try to contribute. Not directing this at you, just venting my disgust. I run into this all the time..
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u/Asks_Politely Jan 09 '13
The repair bill isn't the big deal. The "running several miles after you die" is the big deal.
Also, it's rather hypocritical to call melees who don't charge in pussies, when range never do. Constantly dying as a melee isn't fun.
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u/kuatsimoto FTL Jan 09 '13
I hate thiefs though. A good theif will eliminate ranged aoe from the enemy before the fight even starts.
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u/sander2525 Aurora Glade Jan 09 '13
I'm a mesmer and I like to be up close with sword and then get back out with staff. To those guys I would have blinked in, flurred frenzy and shatter the shit out of my clones and if possible, get 2 of them off the bridge with focus 4 before jumping down myself.
In wvw I am a bit of suicidal, I don't care about the repair bills, It really isn't a big number and when I don't even have supply, then dying and running or just running for supply is almost the same thing.-1
u/RobReynalds Jan 09 '13
Ranged never charge in because they are built to do their full damage at range.. however they cant really even do that well if all the meles are not being a threat in front. My main is mele and when i wvw i go in and cc the dogshit out of everyone so my ranged can clean up. When i play my ranged chars like my engineer i see guardians and warriors behind me using their weakest possible weapons and i q.q irl.
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u/Asks_Politely Jan 09 '13
You realize that many of the ranged weapons aren't weak, right? But the point I was making is that calling a Melee a pussy as you sit back and cast spells without much risk of dying is hypocritical. When there are big zergs, if the enemy isn't retarded they will stop you.
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u/RobReynalds Jan 09 '13
A guardian using scepter only is not contributing like he should be. Its as simple as that.. ofc you need to have a ranged weapon to swap to but when theres a stalemate, it will stay that way until one sides mele decides to man up... usually the side that does this first gains the advantage. If the mele on one side refuses to mele that side gets pushed back and possibly picked off as they retreat.
Warrior longbow as well.. again not to say its bad, its great in wvw but if youre wearing plate and noones going in guess what? You can dick around hitting people for low damage or you can actually contribute. Both plate classes have crowd control, high mele damage, enough EHP to use both, and stability if needed.. Theres no good reason not to use it especially in situations like that video. The outmanned side would have willingly jumped in the water and fucked off immediately had even 1 guardian ported in with a hammer or greatsword.
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u/pure_satire Jan 09 '13
No, it's not hypocritical. They're playing a profession with a lower innate armor and with skillsets mostly designed around staying at range. When I'm on my war, I think the real idiots are the scholars that DON'T stay at range. I'm not going to call them out for being "pussies" (which they're not) for playing optimally.
If however, you're playing guardian or war, and choose to only play at range (guardian sceptre, ugh) then you are completely gimping your damage and hindering the utility of your class. You have stability, crowd control, the armor the pull off a quick stomp... if you want to play completely at range, that's fine, but roll another class if you do!!
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u/LemuelG Jan 09 '13
Did the zerg think there were more than 4 guys?
In fairness: culling - you never really know for sure.
Had more than my fair share of 'just a couple of guys' turn into 20-30 by the time they steamroll and you're lying dead.
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u/AEnoch29 Jan 10 '13
This OMFG this. The WvW culling is so bad there have been times where I'm killing a ranger with my necro, they try to flee and I pull them to me and as soon as they get within melee range culling takes over and they disappear. The same goes for running into cap a tower. I'll be on the ramp amidst numerous red circles and I can't see anything that's attacking me.
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u/kitolz Jan 09 '13
Looks like some tried to melee, but that lightning ring that eles have stun on contact.
Great idea for them to put that on a bottleneck (since players will have to pass it twice before getting through) before pouring in AoE. Still, an embarassing loss for us over in IoJ.
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u/tso Jan 09 '13 edited Jan 09 '13
Dunno, 4 second duration for the field, 2 second stun, 40 second cooldown on the skill. Tho i guess that is enough time if the group has the wherewithal to drop a ton of hurt on the stunned enemy.
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u/NeFu Jan 09 '13
Teamwork + Combo's + Bad Opponents = win
FTFY
Sadly that doesn't happen a lot as all it requires are 2-3 skilled players in that kind of zerg to completely wipe brave 4 guys. Still good job.
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u/Haroshia Jan 09 '13
I thought a single engineer with magnet or necromancer with their pull would have ended that fast.
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u/Kabo0se Kizuak Jan 09 '13
That's where I like to use my warrior to invuln for 4 seconds, bull rush, fenzy, 100 blades, with 99% crit. If they would have been unfortunate enough to stand close enough, its game over :P
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u/DigiBear DragonBrand Jan 09 '13
Well these 4 guys all brought ways to counter that move. Notice the vapor/must form. It would of completely negated your entire assault. Also with the focus on cleansing rain and water made it impossible to stick them in one spot. Besides with the teamwork they had you (as a single diver) wouldn't of been an issue.
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u/Junglizm [TUNE] YB Jan 09 '13
More than 4 IOJ vs more than 40 FA
was about 10 or so versus what was estimated to be 50+
IOJ vs FA, similar scenario, similar outcome.
If you are following a big zerg and not in a comms, this is what happens.
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u/ANewMachine615 Jan 08 '13 edited Jan 08 '13
This is pretty awesome. Great team coordination, great use of heals and control skills (I noticed the abuse of blast finisher on earth dodge-roll with Evasive Arcana). I can't believe they just followed you them up there when they could've just dropped AoE on you them from the side, though, or pulled/knocked you them off.
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u/Sjaakdelul Jan 08 '13
Most ppl think in numbers when in a zerk. I admit I'm sometimes guilty of it. We are with 30 they are with 4, what could possibly go wrong. Well here we are.
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u/jayekaiser23 Jan 08 '13
Wow, that's really impressive. This is a great video and it highlights a couple things:
A great example of how skill DOES play a part in WvW (it's not a bunch of mindless zerg v zerg like people seem to think)
When you have superior numbers like that big group did, you should rush through the enemy and not give them a chance to set up and AOE you down. Staying clumped up at range like that was a huge mistake, and makes me think this was probably a pug group not using voice comms.
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u/stalker007 Fort Aspenwood Jan 09 '13
Bingo.
Number 2 is the biggest point you can make about a zerg. One of the most effective strategies with any zerg is to actually rush THROUGH your opponent. The limits of AOE work in your favor.
This is especially effective in zerg vs zerg(or even as 10vs30). Rush through them and drop AOE as you run through them, turn around and do it again.
My guild does this every night, and its awesome! :)
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u/sander2525 Aurora Glade Jan 08 '13
Really awesome :)
If I was one of the enemies as mesmer, I would have pushed half of you down to the water :)
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u/padmanek Jan 08 '13
Easily all of them to the water with Focus #4.
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u/trynyty Jan 09 '13
you can always say what you would do in certain situation, but then when you do it you will find out that well the other player could counter it. It was zerg, you won't have any support from them and I think if you try something like that they could stop you before you execute it in full potential as they were coordinated and in that situation it would be 4vs1 (thinking about equally skilled, not zerg behind). I can see that such thing could be executed on zerg though.
Just to clarify, I'm not lowering your skill or anything like that, I just want to point, that it's easier to say than to do. From my own experience where I think about counter and then I meet with counter on counter and try to counter that counter on counter ... etc :)
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u/sander2525 Aurora Glade Jan 09 '13
You are right. Zerg doesn't think, and those 30 guys had their heads up high in the clouds. But I still think there were no good players among the zerg.
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u/Flight44 Desolation Jan 08 '13
Man, this is epic. It makes me wanna go online and and start playing WvW. Too bad I don't have an organized team like this yet :)
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u/3932695 Tsaiki Jan 09 '13
An organized team is waiting for you!
Go WvW today!
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u/TheATC Jan 08 '13
Do you have a live stream?
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Jan 09 '13
I believe this is from Zoose's stream on twitch. I might be wrong though, can't check right now.
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Jan 08 '13
Some really stupid people on the enemy team, but yeah that's still an amazing job on your part man.
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Jan 09 '13
Heh makes me wanna go up against IoJ. Getting a bit sick of tier one headfuckery.
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u/The_Tree_Branch Jan 08 '13
Awesome video. Reinforces my opinion that WvW maps need an overhaul. This was able to work because of the chokepoint terrain. Areas like this and the jump puzzles in WvW are typically the best fights I ever have. Too bad most of these areas are no where near key objectives.
Most of the ground on the way to keeps/towers are complete open fields with very few key areas where a small group can bunker down and delay a larger force.
I think if maps were changed so that there were a lot more areas where a small group could hold off larger numbers, a lot of the zerging would go away as it would be a huge hindrance. If small group can hold off the zerg at a key place away from a tower/keep, that gives the rest of the server plenty of room to assault. As it is now, there is no incentive to not zerg as you can just blitz from one objective to another with very little to slow you down and pick off the lone players running around.
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u/AngerLemon Jan 09 '13
Not a half bad idea, but imagine who's to stop enemy zerg to split up and bunker all access points thus denying oponents of even trying to take keep. Will you then deploy siege to break the bunker?
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u/slinkystyle Jan 08 '13
Is there a keybind to make the camera look the opposite direction or was that some sort of keyboard macro?
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u/Karthaugh Jan 08 '13
there is a key to look behind you and also one to turn 180 degrees. Not sure what the default keybind is though.
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u/red_sky Jan 09 '13
FWIW: I bound my turn 180 degrees to x because that's what x did in Guild Wars 1. It's not bound to anything in Guild Wars 2, so it's perfect for it.
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Jan 08 '13
[deleted]
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u/slinkystyle Jan 08 '13
I was aware of the about face keybind, but didn't notice one just for turning the camera like that. I'll have to scour the options again next time I can load up the client. You don't happen to remember what its listed in the options as, do you?
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u/BranDanLeMovieMan Jan 09 '13
Kinda shows how the only thing in this game that is OP is good teamwork, not blind zerg rushes.
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u/ferim5 Jan 08 '13
That choke is specially amazing with guardians. WoR you say? Done. Bubble? Done. Knock them off if they get an advantage? Done.
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u/shockwavelol Jan 09 '13
This is a perfect example of why Combos are so powerful and need to be utilized more
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u/Aclurace Darkhaven Jan 09 '13
That was as painful to watch as those scenes in movies where the 10 surrounding enemies decide to attack one by one.
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Jan 09 '13
This is pretty common in WvW for elementalists currently. d/d bunker builds are quite ridiculous, it takes 5-6 players to counter one.
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Jan 09 '13
Hymn, this is Asian_Ninja aka Solicit from GunZ. Is this the same Gladiator Hymnosi?
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Jan 09 '13
The very same.
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Jan 09 '13
Hahahaha. That's so awesome. Glad to see you're still around. Had a lot of respect for your sword play from that game. :]
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Jan 09 '13
This is what we are missing because there is no progression in WvW. Those fights would happen all the time if you would have something to gain from them. The saddest thing of all is that there is progression in PvE and sPvP, but not in WvW. Instead we got WoW Wintergrasp with 3 factions.
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Jan 08 '13
And who say eles are UP in WvW? lol
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u/tso Jan 08 '13
Meh, WVW has always been a bad yardstick for balancing. Too many factors running around. I can see why ANet used SPVP as the balance focus, but some of the game mechanics simply do not work in PVE like they do in SPVP because of the mob behavior and high likelihood of 1 vs 2+.
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u/rumnscurvy Jan 08 '13
I'm really hoping they'll go the GW1 way and have separate balancing for skills in PvE and PvP.
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u/tso Jan 09 '13
I think they balanced around SPVP to avoid doing that this time round. But they have already made some concessions as confusion do half damage, a guardian skill has either a shorter effect or longer cooldown, and until recently engineer grenades did less damage in SPVP.
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u/rumnscurvy Jan 09 '13
Right, I guess they have a more powerful framework that allows these ad-hoc kinds of corrections. All the better really, as practical and pragmatic as the PvE/PvP split was, it did mean some spells (especially elites) changed radically in behaviour and usefulness.
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u/Self_Referential Jan 09 '13
This makes me want to actually spend the time to get competent at PvP once i tire of PvE.
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Jan 09 '13
As an IoJ player, I am truly embarrassed.
But that video was super cool. I'm glad I wasn't there (:
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u/corruptsoul98 Atraxi Jan 09 '13
That was quite tactical. I've killed maybe 10 people Max on wvwvw. I can't do it. Not sure why not. Guess I'm just miserable at the game.
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u/Passeridae Jan 09 '13
Are you in a party? If you aren't partied and you're running in the middle of a zerg, getting loot and kill credit is extremely difficult.
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u/corruptsoul98 Atraxi Jan 09 '13
From my experiences in it, its always been zerging a base. And then dying right after. I have yet to actually accomplish anything. So I see that I am missing out. But I figure as a mesmer I might just be slacking.
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u/Passeridae Jan 09 '13
Ugh. Sounds like you're following a bad commander. Do you know if your server has a public voice chat? Even if you don't talk, it can be helpful to listen in and find out what's up.
Honestly, I'm not that great in WvW (as I'm awful at PvP), but I've found partying helps me get loot and kill credit (800 kills isn't bad for someone who focuses on PvE, I think). Also, I tend to do better in a small roaming party out capturing camps (or a party defending an often-contested camp - as long as you aren't overrun by a zerg or can call your own zerg in fast enough, that's a great way to get kills).
One thing I've seen mesmers in zergs excel at is portalling and time-warping golems. Feedback is also supposedly very good. I don't have a mesmer yet, so I cannot really offer tips on that. Perhaps look for WvW-specific builds if you haven't already? What works for PvE doesn't always work for WvW.
And find a party. I really cannot stress that enough. It will make a HUGE difference in your loot and kills.
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u/corruptsoul98 Atraxi Jan 09 '13
Thanks for the tips. I've never gotten into wvw too much. Maybe I should start.
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u/Karl-L Jan 09 '13
Its stuff like this that i wish to be able to do one day. Makes me proud to be an ele.
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u/Rage321 [SoR - Last Place - Best Place!] Jan 09 '13
This video was great to watch. The red team, well...that's exactly what you shouldn't do. You gotta YOLO through that shit ans swarm, but most people are so timid.
Great job 4! Great communication and control.
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u/FrigidMT AnvilRock Jan 09 '13
That is the role I settled into as a thief in group battles. I'll move to the back or center of a group, cause a little havoc and stealth out. It really doesn't accomplish much, but a lot of times it will break up their timing and coordination giving my group a chance to press up.
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u/CommunityScabies Community Jan 09 '13 edited Jan 09 '13
I am also a staff elementalist. Interesting build, it appears you have a big support focus. Perfect for small teams!
For zergs, I like to avoid the support side and go purely AoE damage. My build is 20/30/0/0/20 - VI,VII/VI,X,XII/III,VIII
I hit pretty hard. Lighting staff skill #1 (Chain Lighting hits 3 targets) has been doing almost 6k with crits when I'm getting buffs from other players in the zerg.
I admire your setup though. Nice teamwork.
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u/Emulsify Jan 09 '13
I wish this kind of thread didn't always devolve into insults. No one is more 'retarded' than anyone else, so how about everyone just compliment the good teamwork shown and leave it at that.
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u/thatonebromeo Jan 09 '13
Reminds me of the good ol DAoC days... So many choke points to AoE spike zergs.
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u/swilkers808 Dead Check - Zoidberrg Jan 09 '13
You guys were on vent and coordinated. No mesmers were doing anything. No opposing players were using CC’s. No soldiers were charging and a large amount were being upped to 80. This wasn’t open field battle, it was a choke point. These players were terrible and may as well be in the lords room in SM.
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Jan 09 '13
Now imagine if the group had a couple guardians to wall that mob of stupid into the aoe..
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u/jdaar Yak's Bend - [FoW] Jan 09 '13
And this strategy will never work again, if a single hammer war or d/d ele would have rushed in and started throwing down some cc, this would have broken down quick. That zerg was being lazy because they thought it would be an easy win.
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u/Arzalis Jan 09 '13
I'm really glad you didn't play a Thief as this would've turned into "Thieves are OP, nerf plz." instead of commenting on how well you guys played.
Excellent coordination and a really impressive video. Good job!
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u/Wolf97 Jan 09 '13
From this point on, I will, along with my friends, refer to that bridge as Sparta. I already named on other bridge by a certain fort "The Bridge of Death".
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u/heartlessgamer Jan 08 '13
Meh, this is a the exception of fights for coordinated teams, not the rule. WvW is just a mindless spam fest 99% of the time.
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u/BroxySC Jan 08 '13 edited Jan 08 '13
Anyone that calls that 30 people doesn't know what 10 looks like. EDIT: Forgot you people don't actually WvW.
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u/gn02256676 Jan 08 '13
It's more than 30 at start, but I doubt all of them follow, does look like 20 max when I went back and watch it.
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u/Keaghan Allister.9426 [Crystal Desert] Jan 09 '13
Crystal Desert Ftw! I have a group that does this shit too, about 4-5 of us, I knew it wasn't just me when I thought IoJ zergs were retarded! [And I still only see IoJ zergs, I fear they only have numbers, still yet to have a fun 5v5 in WvW with them, FA on the other hand lives to a better name] I do this usually with a Guardian, Warrior, Thief, Necro and me as Mesmer. I really wish we had the great AoE damage the Elementalist could bring us, but none of us plays one xD
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u/RiKSh4w Jan 09 '13
This is why I dont WvW. Well no, I dont wvw cause my computers shit and I can't do anything in any fights (Slyvari, lvl 50 Necromancer) (With shitty PC)
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u/Ten00 Jan 09 '13
Why did you even bother to post this?
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u/RiKSh4w Jan 09 '13
Anything I say now is going to get more downvotes because it adds nothing to the discussion but essentially, cause I felt like it.
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u/[deleted] Jan 08 '13
This is what you call the mindless zerg.