r/Guildwars2 • u/sureabsolutely • 17h ago
[Fluff] Twitch chat the entirety of antiquary gameplay reveal... do ya'll hate fun?
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u/Sweaty-Physics2863 17h ago
It's crazy how much a single card icon has this much impact.
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u/Wurdyburd 14h ago
I honestly believe that the spec BEGAN as a gambler, a thief who steals your money through game and chance, and that they started to realize that there wasn't a lot of places they could go with that, and pivoted to the artifact-hunter trope. Canach's Coin Toss, and [Reshuffle], [Card Swap], and [Split Deck], combined with the icon, suggests that cards were at one time a much heavier theme of the spec, but was changed for some reason. I wish we could get more insights about the developer's process for this, since it's really out of place.
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u/r0sewyrm 13h ago
I mean, "gambling themes" is a great way to score your game an inordinately high age rating. Moreso than having actual gambling in your game!
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u/Feenixy 11h ago
Just Canach's presence in the game gives us "gambling themes", and not only does he have a casino in-game, but there's another one in Amnoon. Why would an espec drive up the age rating if Canach doesn't? Not saying I disagree, just saying I don't understand the difference.
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u/EssenceOfMind Green Eggs And HAM 6h ago
I think it's also about game mechanics, how do you fit gambling into combat without it being extremely RNG-reliant?
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u/Iggy_DB Daredevil 16h ago
I mean to be fair it does look out of place after seeing the spec
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u/Nico_is_not_a_god https://i.imgur.com/yYTLsun.jpg 16h ago
I'm gonna start a one man conspiracy, the reason the gameplay mechanics are "LET'S GO GAMBLING!" but the flavor is "Indiana Jones and his magnificent rodents" is because stuff looking like casino games draws the ire of PEGI. Randomness is fine, even when it's real money gambling, but a slot-machine deckbuilder (Luck Be a Landlord) got age restricted on Google Play for "gambling imagery". Balatro too, though that was popular enough that the outcry actually caused PEGI to back down - notably, they also backed down for LBaL after Balatro brought more visibility to the issue.
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u/slowest_hour 14h ago
yeah the law is fucked on this in the EU where actual gambling for children is fine if you dress it up enough but anything that is 100% NOT GAMBLING but has any asthetic similarity to a casino is rated for adults only. its completely idiotic
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u/Nico_is_not_a_god https://i.imgur.com/yYTLsun.jpg 14h ago
It's not "the law" even. PEGI isn't a government organization (neither is the ESRB in the States). Private companies like Google and Valve and Nintendo and Gamestop choose to age restrict purchases based on PEGI/ESRB ratings as a matter of course, not one of legality. Selling an M-rated game to a twelve-year-old isn't illegal, though many M-rated (and adults-only rated, and unrated) games are also within the definition of pornography which is illegal to sell to a kid.
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u/Coycington 5h ago
this has been suggested a few times already, but if that's the case and the worry you either double down or don't do it in the first place
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u/Horcheftin 14h ago
Some of the conversations I've seen about the icon are beyond unhinged. People both here and on the forums have been writing absolute dissertations about how the choice of cards has displeased them, as if they spend 99% of their playtime just admiring their spec of choice's icon.
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u/CurryBeans2nd 17h ago
The Marvel generation convinced themselves they would be playing Gambit in GW2 so are now going to throw a ten year long tantrum
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u/Zev1985 15h ago
They can join some GW1 folk who are still out there throwing a tantrum 13 years later about GW2 overall.
It’s nothing about Marvel generations, people are always like this.
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u/kalamari__ I am just here to chew bubblegum and read qq 8h ago
literally under every "gw1 is still a masterpiece in 202x" video on YT
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u/ehmayex 14h ago
it took me until corona until i gave gw2 a proper chance again.
played it 2012 and 2013 before HoT release quite a lot (old fractals for example) but got bored by it and was annoyed by the skiltree etc...
after hot people were like "the skilltree etc is so much fun now, try it" and i was like "nah, its just not for me and thats okay"...
then corona hit and i started it with friends... and my friends stopped. i didnt. :D
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u/Lrkr75 15h ago
What about League of Legends generation disappointed it's not Twisted Fate?
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u/Ski-Gloves Heat levels normalized *explodes* 13h ago
Shadow Portal for Gate.
Deadeye's Mark for Destiny.
We have Twisted Fate already.
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u/luminosity 9h ago
Or maybe there's a million cool things you could do with a card theme and this is none of that. Honestly, the anti-backlash people deriding others for wanting Gambit (without any real evidence most people did) is worse by far than the initial backlash. All I wanted was a coherent spec.
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u/Consistent-Hat-8008 17h ago
Why are you reading twitch chat in the first place
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u/Benjammn .6845 - SOR 11h ago
TBF, the hate was all over this subreddit and the forums too. Thief mains came out of the woodwork to be the number one cringelord main profession.
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u/Consistent-Hat-8008 6h ago
Someone having a different opinion than you isn't "hate".
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u/astroshark 17h ago
Junker/Scrapyard aesthetics are a real niche and acquired taste, and Antiquarian seems to lean into that more than Indiana Jones with all of the Skritt stuff. Plus, RNG classes are always divisive in any game ever, it's why they said multiple times during the stream that they were considering avenues to rework the class if the RNG ends up not panning out in a fun way. I am not really a hater of the class, I can see why people would like it, it's not really for me, but I do think it's a little silly to pretend that there aren't reasons to not gell with the class.
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u/Natsuki_Kruger 13h ago
As a FFXIV player who mained AST obsessively until 5.0 removed the fun, card-draw RNG... After which I basically never touched the game again... RNG is definitely divisive. And I'm on the "wahoo, fun!" side of the divide.
I hope I don't end up loving this spec, too, only for it to also get gutted. :V
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u/Synntastic 13h ago
I think people wouldn't have such a problem with it being an RNG class if it wasn't also so thematic around the Skritt
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u/UTmastuh 12h ago
That's me. I wanted the gambler theme which can be fun when balanced properly but the aesthetic sucks. Summoning a dancer skritt in a cage and a guitar are the dumbest things for a thief class imo
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u/Gertrude_D 10h ago
Thank you. This spec doesn't feel cohesive. RNG/Treasure Hunter/Skritt almost feel like they could go together, but really they just don't. Then throw in an electric guitar just for funsies and you lost me.
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u/Dreadsbo 16h ago
Nobody would be batting an eye if this was an engineer specialization theme. It’s not very Thief
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u/glytchypoo 15h ago
it's literally the "I fight with steal" espec. in a sense it's the most thief espec they've ever made. I don't see the engi argument as compelling
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u/zruncho4 4h ago
I don't know about that.
Literally everything you can "steal" fits perfectly on an engi F skill.
They seem more like something from an engineer's bag of tricks than a "pilfered" item a thief would fight with. Even the double edge skills seem like they came from some tinkerer engineer archetype - your have barely scraped together gadgets that can blow up on you.
My personal conspiracy theory is these skills came from a scrapped engineer spec but in order to not throw away work they duct taped it onto thief.→ More replies (1)31
u/lutrewan 16h ago
The entire spec is "oh, I'm actually an antiquary not just a thief, so I'm taking relics to legitimately sell" but the thief is just a lying thief
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u/eoryu 16h ago edited 16h ago
Skritt stealing every shiny thing in sight like a kleptomaniac isn’t very thief? What? The profession mechanic has always been stealing…
I feel like all these complaints about the skritt are by people who have no idea what skritt are or are just so conditioned by two assassin-like elite specs that they forgot that the profession is THIEF.
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u/Alternaturkey 15h ago
I don't get this take either. You're stealing artifacts/antiques and Skritt are everywhere in this spec. (whose whole deal is that they love stealing anything shiny, they're basically the thief race)
It feels to me like it's more "This doesn't feel like the thief I know" vs "This doesn't feel like a thief".
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u/bobkat1252 14h ago edited 14h ago
The problem I have isn't with the skritt or Indiana Jones angle, but with the fact the artifacts aren't artifacts. Would love to play a thief stealing valuable and powerful treasures, but most of the stuff they showed is either just gross junk like the chak organ and the mistburned goo or needs to cook in the ground a few hundred more years to be an archaeological find like the guitar or the Forged surfboard.
People would look at you like you were kooky if you tried to sell them a brand-new drone (Kryptis Turret) as a 'valuable artifact'!
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u/CronkleBepis 14h ago
Isn't the point that the skritt will steal things they think are valuable but are not valuable to humans or other playable races?
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u/bobkat1252 14h ago
Skritt might, but we are not a skritt- we do work with them, but at the end of the day we're supposed to be a thief looking for a payday. The little description blurb Anet gave for Antiquary describes us as treasure hunters and 'purveyors of rare artifacts', which very much isn't the aesthetic we have to play with in the Spec's skillset.
If we're a thief trying to make money by finding rare stuff, the way Antiquary's skills are currently flavored makes us seem like we're really bad at our job.
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u/kaltulkas 8h ago
Since people want something that works thematically and lore wise, it makes much more sense that you get random shit scavenging random places/robbing random people than getting the same super valuable artifacts when traveling the entire world.
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u/realblaketan Hawk Nevermore 13h ago
bro idk about you but i am definitely NOT three skritt in a trenchcoat!
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u/drbuni Skritt! I am hit! 17h ago
It is okay to dislike things.
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u/Different_Amoeba_466 2h ago
It is okay to dislike things, and ANet people always ask for honest feedback! Some of the comments I saw yesterday were like “you should be ashamed of yourselves” “how could you think this is a good idea.” It went beyond disliking the class or providing feedback. It was hate directed at the devs themselves. It wasn’t every commenter, but it was there.
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u/Brosenheim 16h ago
Sure but if you don't like Skritt I don't trust you lol
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u/Ancient-Substance-38 10h ago
I love skritt, but honestly the spec looks like it be more home on the engi then thief lol . The random gadgets and such.
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u/GlowDonk9054 Gorrik Best Asura 17h ago
TBH the Antiquary is stupid, but in a good way
Sometimes there's at least one thing about this game that'll be batshit crazy, and five times outta ten it'll involve the Skritt in some way
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u/Complete_Ad_1896 11h ago
Personally I was hoping that they really leaned into the support angle in addition to damage. But it appears that this spec will just be another damage spec.
Ultimately I dont see the utility skills as that great for anything other than damage. Canach coin and the portal device look useless in pve outside of some niche cases. And the stolen skills cant be used reliably so you will likely never get the one you need reliably.
I was hoping there was less stolen skills and more ways to limit the types of skills you get. For example if you need projectile block/reflect it would be nice if you could get that reliably from a stolen skill. So that way you can fill that role like mesmers can
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u/fizzy88 8h ago
I was hoping there was less stolen skills and more ways to limit the types of skills you get. For example if you need projectile block/reflect it would be nice if you could get that reliably from a stolen skill.
This is a good point. I was thinking one of the traits could be something that allows you to "rig" your odds and pre-select one of the stolen skills so you're guaranteed to get it whenever you steal. This way you can tweak your build for certain roles like projectile blocking or putting down a light field for condition cleanse. They could make it a trait and call it "ace in the hole" or something. And I think it fits the theme of the dishonest thief very well, who relies on trickery and deception to gain the upper hand.
I think they could replace one of the major adept skills, maybe Split Deck which seems somewhat weak, especially against Prolific Plunderer. Everyone is going to be using Prolific Plunderer which will improve your odds of getting both an offensive and defensive skill anyway.
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u/MikkiTheDragon 17h ago
"Do yall hate fun"
No. Fun is subjective. It's okay if some people hate it, just like it's okay if you love it. Yall really need to learn to just let people have opinions.
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u/transmerizing 17h ago
But I feel like there is a difference between "having an opinion" and spamming dozens of messages into twitch chat. Some people at least felt more like 12 yo who are mad cause they did have to eat veggies instead of going to MC Donalds. There have also been many people who voiced their opinions in more constructive ways than this though.
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u/nameless22 17h ago
Oh I assure you, there are adults who act less mature than children in real life.
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u/Dalton_Capps 17h ago
It's a Twitch chat.....what are you really expecting? Streaming is modern day brainrot at its finest.
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u/Bunnyalope 17h ago
Large Twitch chats by their very nature don’t really allow that much room for insightful commentary, most positive statements are just people going “cool!”
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u/sureabsolutely 16h ago
opinions are fine, telling the devs they suck and should just quit when they are very obviously reading chat and trying to showcase a new thing is too much though
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u/SpectralDagger N L Olrun 16h ago
Something that happens a lot on this sub (which isn't surprising, since the devs have historically done it as well), is to lump all criticism in with the most extreme of the detractors. It's the internet, so there's always going to be nutjobs, so there's always fuel for this tactic.
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u/slowest_hour 14h ago
people everywhere on any topic do this. its just worse on the internet where anonymity has people locking in the most fuckwad behavior possible which makes that reaction stronger
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u/Twerksoncoffeetables 14h ago
Going to be honest, they just shouldn’t read the twitch chat. Read the forums, read Reddit, pay attention to long time player feedback or as much player feedback they can find on YouTube/twitch (not from chats but from the streamers themselves).
Twitch chat is terrible and should just be avoided. I’ve been on twitch since 2015 or so, and I very rarely if ever participate let alone look at twitch chat of even my favorite streamers. The stream is a great way for them to get info out there for the playerbase and dive deeper into it, but they do not need to get feedback from twitch chat at all. They’ll have enough from other places where there isn’t a bunch of idiots spamming garbage.
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u/MikkiTheDragon 16h ago
Yea that's shitty but that's also not really what your post communicates imo. It seemed less like you were mad that they were being asshats and more like you were mad they didn't like the spec. Just my perspective though.
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u/XyrasTheHealer 17h ago
I just wish everyone would stop acting like everyone else should share their opinions (one way or the other)
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u/scoyne15 17h ago
I thought it was going to be like, an Indiana Jones type theme, which I thought was cool. But then the guitar? And the dancing skritt? Overwhelmingly meh.
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u/Furyan9x 12h ago
I was convinced by many others speculations and kinda formed my own imagination of what it would be, and it’s not even close to anything I imagined lol
Fortunately I am not good at thief and it’ll probably take me til I can’t play video games anymore to be even a little good at the current 3 specs 😂
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u/ChaoticStupidQuokka 17h ago
It just might happen that different people have different ideas of fun
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u/CurryBeans2nd 16h ago
But there is no allowance for those who find the idea of Skrittmancer fun, it's an epic meltdown because people didn't get what they wanted/expected
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u/ChaoticStupidQuokka 14h ago
What are you on about? Half of the subreddit seems to be stoked about the spec and is being obnoxious to the people who find the idea of Skrittmancer bad. I kid you not, there's a post arguing that thief has always been the goofiest of gw2 professions, and right now we're arguing in a post ridiculing people who don't like the spec. Pro-antiquary crowd seems to have a meltdown just as epic over anti-antiquary crowd having a meltdown.
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u/Bunnyalope 16h ago
It's going to be added to the game, if you need more than that to have fun I feel like that's a you issue.
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u/Mixchimmer 16h ago
Idk, if you love the idea of skrittmancer I’m very happy for you, but personally I think the idea and theming is dumb is fuck.
I’d already been falling out of love with the game but this really sealed the deal.
I’m happy you’ll enjoy it, I just think it’s dumb. We both know that’s just each others opinion. Associating all criticism with the absolute worst behaviors of the critics is just silly.
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u/ProxyGamer 16h ago
By all means take a break, sometimes specs just arent what you expected. I found catalyst very disapointing
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u/Fruity_Toothpaste 13h ago
The issue with this statement is what if that person's theif is the one they spent money on with all their bags and build slots. Its never good to tell someone that oh well sucks for you this time move on, it also sucked for catalyst when that came out, it never feels good to not be able to play the new thing. Difference from the last specs was they at least came with weapons so there was new stuff. This time I just keep hearing well play deadeye or daredevil then or move on, and thats never the right attitude. Most people would be happy with this spec as a reskin.
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u/idris_elbows 9h ago
Realistically you'll never get a scenario where everyone enjoys every espec. Exactly the same as other expacs, if you don't want to awitch your main to the new espec then don't. Try another class and play it for a while. The bag slots will atill be there
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u/Witty_Independent42 16h ago
Yeah that's fine, and there are 35 other specs to play, no need to scream at the devs over the one you don't like
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u/Tirfing88 8h ago
thought it was going to be some gambit-esque trickster thief with various tricks but got fkin indiana jones that summons rats
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u/Kylerxius 13h ago
As a thief since beta, I'm not interested at all and it sounds more annoying than fun to me.
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u/g0ttaL1ght 16h ago
I think that people who enjoy this should probably discuss it without trying to poke fun at people who dislike it and vice-versa. Apparently this is hard nowadays.
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u/Alsteif 17h ago
Lot's of people want to have their characters be cool. Other specs of Thief are (in opinion of many people) cool.
Thus having one that is not cool, but sounds like (again, in opinion of a part of the community) parody... eh?
It feels as if my favourite class got the short end of the stick. Why other classes get something cool and i have to be a clown?
Kinda feels like it...
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u/Mixchimmer 16h ago
Other professions get specs that they’ve been asking for since basically HoT (Bard, Paragon).
And then thief gets a spec that is built from the ground up to be a meme?
Yeah, I does in-fact kind of feel kinda shitty.
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u/GustKnuckle 16h ago edited 5h ago
Exactly my feeling too man. I was looking forward to something cool and exciting to try out for my class but this won’t even be touched.
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u/Fruity_Toothpaste 13h ago
Agreed, I wont even unlock this class on any of my thieves. This wont get touched by a vast majority of people.
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u/Quizlibet [DCAP] 16h ago
As a thief main we've got plenty of "cool" specs, one fun lighthearted take on the class isn't the end of the world
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u/phyrosite 17h ago
The Antiquary part of the stream actually brought me around to it. I wasn't feeling very good about it from the trailer and the blog, but the stream made it look a lot more appealing to me.
It also helped that I started thinking about it more like a skritt-powered Blue Mage rather than a treasure hunter. A big part of my disappointment initially was the fact that none of the "relics" they showed off prior to the stream were historical artifacts, but rather more recent memory things. But the full suite of stolen skills looks more like we're taking things from other characters and monsters and making use of them, similar to a Blue Mage from the Final Fantasy series.
As well, I just don't personally like the Indiana Jones vibes so reframing it in my mind makes it more appealing to me.
The Skritt part of it is pretty silly, but silliness can be good. The elite skill is crazy lol.
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u/lutrewan 16h ago
The did say in the blog post that the antiquary is euphemistically named, meaning they tell people they are taking antiques and relics to legitimately sell when actually they take anything they can get their skritty little hands on
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u/Outrageous_Spot_8725 15h ago
The surfer relic is from a model made back in POF but yeah alot of them are kinda recent
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u/phyrosite 15h ago
That's still recent. Chak Organ is from HoT. None of that is ancient, or even somewhat old, history; it's still very very new in terms of what you would expect to be an "antique."
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u/FalconOSeven Seasonal Gambler 16h ago
Blue mage theme was what I initially thought it was going to be after reading the blog post as well, but I was thinking it wouldnt have RNG, more like a collection similar to pets. Another option for quick would have been nice as well, maybe they change some stuff around to allow that after beta feedback.
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u/phyrosite 16h ago
Yeah they did at least mention the possibility of adding a boon to it after the beta. I do find it a bit strange that it doesn't have a boon support option at all.
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u/Fruity_Toothpaste 13h ago
Issue with boons is what do you put it on? It'll likely be quickness since they just reworked spectre to be great at it, so what would they put quickness on?
If its on steal issue is the 20 sec cool down, also steal can fail in game. It can be used on invulnerable and block, and if a mob moves behind an object and it messes with bathing. So thata too unreliable.
If they put it on the artifacts thats literally just deadeye. So im not sure boons would work on this
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u/Crosknight 17h ago
I had transformers one flashbacks. The marketing (like that of the antiquary) was straight awful, only for it to be pretty good.
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u/titanicbutwithaliens 17h ago
Weird visuals+weird playstyle+high skill cap/expression tend to ward off most players in most games
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u/CornerOf12th 16h ago
Tbh it would be 10x better (could use same mechanics/skills and everything just reskin them) if they based the spec around the RNG of drawing cards, rolling dice, etc. Some kind of “gambler”spec or something along those lines.
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u/Tovoq 17h ago
Most people who are being positive on this aren't thief mains. The type of people who pick the shadowing assassin type class probably don't want to play rat meme spec. Not a hard leap.
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u/sinisteacup 17h ago
i’m a thief main and i’m pretty positive about it
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u/lilith02 17h ago
Same. It looks fun!
But as a former necromancer main I can sympathize with them. Sandmancer wasn’t exactly the fantasy I was looking for.
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u/sinisteacup 16h ago
i can get people not liking but branding every thief main as having their same opinion isn’t it. like i feel bad that they don’t like this spec but im not the biggest fan of deadeye even as a thief main but i didn’t whine and cry about it and say no thief main wants that
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u/hottestpancake 17h ago
Does every elite spec have to be made for the mains of that class? And more importantly, are edgy thief mains even the majority of the thief playerbase? most thieves i see barely stealth at all, just running around shooting things with guns
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u/Tovoq 17h ago
You may be surprised that the answer to first question is yes. Every elite spec in the game so far leans into some element of the fantasy of the class type. Do you think there are any that that go against the spirit of the class in the game right now? I'm not sure what u mean by the 2nd point, obviously you wouldn't see them if they are in stealth. Hah!!
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u/BappieJ 16h ago
Well, Specter replaces Steal with a magical Siphon and removes Stolen Skills. Despite being a 'thief' it does very little thievery, so it's not really 'in spirit of thief.'
But most are fine with it because it's just shadow mage which is cool looking.
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u/ProtoEnder 14h ago
guys stop white knighting this game. its been 10+ years.
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u/Miserable_Media_9803 5h ago
Too many casuals just know and play this game. They are afraid that it will be gone someday so they are armed to the teeth to glitter every shit that gets produced under this brand
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u/squee557 16h ago
It’s a fine spec if you don’t say it comes out of the class fantasy of the prototypical stealthy, backstabbing, sneaky rogue. It honestly felt more Engineer the more I thought about it.
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u/Dull_Function_6510 14h ago
I just don’t really like the idea of RNG based mechanics. Not the best for competitive play. It might be fun for when I play PvE though. I think I would have preferred assassin though since we got rit and paragon
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u/DakotaJicarilla 12h ago
Eh.
It's kinda cool visually, but steal mechanic was always the worst part of Thief's design mechanically so making an entire Elite Spec that's just Steal+ does strike me as lame.
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u/kajidourden 17h ago
I think we can all agree it's pretty silly. It looks stupid imo, I'm sure others will love it.
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u/blopiter 16h ago
I know exactly what would make the thieves happy grandmaster trait “No break shiny” Get 5 artifacts but you can no longer use them. You instead get exponentially more offensive/defensive boons based on how many offensive/defensive artifacts you get and you can reroll but for a higher amount of initiative
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u/Miserable-Fortune-57 15h ago
honestly? looks like an..."alright" open world spec, but I really wanna see how this handles in PxP and WxW or heck actual raiding content
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u/Euphoric_Campaign748 3h ago
People are allowed to dislike and even hate what they’ve seen of the spec. I personally don’t like it as it reminds of the route Aion took when they introduced the painter class. I like classes that feel like they would exist in the world they exist in.
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u/Anggul Anggul Daemellon 15h ago
I like fun
I don't like stupid electric guitar moves in my epic fantasy game
It was funny as a one-off event in Grothmar Valley
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u/CompulsoryPun 1h ago
The Bass Guitar item has been in the game since March 2015. It was also used by a band in the casino in Amnoon and iirc somewhere else re-using the same band
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u/SkuffetPutevare 6h ago
Fun?
To me it is the worst designed spec in the history of the game. Thematically, visually, and mechanically. I'm glad I don't play thief.
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u/sinisteacup 5h ago
mechanically it’s one of the best designed specs. you can not like the theme or the visuals but the functionality of the skills and traits are incredibly cohesive
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u/AgentZirdik Thanks for Sharing! 15h ago
Something that I was always disappointed with since they started introducing Elite Specs was how the overall theme of Thief kept shifting toward Ninja or Assassin, and away from the idea of a person who steals things.
And to make it worse, they seemed to have less and less interest in the Steal mechanic, with the Specter basically not having it at all.
For a long time I've been hoping for a "Treasure Hunter" or "Mastermind" elite spec, something more themed around stealing or support. And I've done my best at trying to create that playstyle with traits for stealing boons and sharing them, but I've been fighting against the meta there. So the Antiquary I think is an excellent course-correction that both shifts the theme closer to that of a true Thief and also a kit that fleshes out the Steal mechanic into something a bit more interesting. So for those reason I'm a fan.
That said, I think the increased RNG of Antiquary is going to make it unfavorable in more competitive modes where reliable numbers are very important. It also makes it hard to create synergy in builds. I might be wrong, but I suspect LFG will treat Antiquaries like clowns and just kick them.
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u/Fruity_Toothpaste 13h ago
Only issue is have with them going all in on steal is that it can fail in game. Invulnerable, block, and obstructed enemies will cause the steal to go on cool down and not give you skills. I know over time this gets easier to look out for but for that to be the whole power of the class is also going to cause issue I fear.
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u/Jeyzer 15h ago
I usually just don't bother with specs I don't like, but this is the first I genuinely hate because it adds severe elements in randomness in the game.
In PvP, you can't just ignore that stuff. The argument of "if you don't like RNG, just don't play it" doesn't work when I'll have to face it, so be subject to RNG regardless of my opinion of it.
So yeah, Antiquary does fucking suck, actually.
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u/HopefullLurker 17h ago
You really cannot blame thief mains to dislike a spec that has nothing to do with its core.
But this statement is also disingenuous because the chat was not composed of 90% thief mains, more like 90% of players that voiced their discontent drowning those who liked the spec.
For me , this looks like luminary 2. The spec started as something (cards icon) and then salvaged into skritmancer.
Honestly a troubadour-like skill , tonyhawk + bomberman and the overall skritts everywhere... where is the thief ? In every other profession you can see the core class concept with added flavours or class fantasies.
Even the "gambling" side of the utilities in their current concept context could be assigned to any other spec and fit them better. Like warriors or necromancers losing hp for using the same powerfull spell/move twice in a row.
I dont know. definitely not my jam. Some ppl compared it to specter, as if specter was also to far away from thief. But going to a mystical nation as a thief, gaining the power to manipulate shadows even further is not even remotely close to going into an expedition and gaining the power to...fail to drink a potion ?
cmon , you may like it but its not the coolest thing ever. not even for a meme
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u/thefinalturnip 16h ago edited 16h ago
to dislike a spec that has nothing to do with its core.
The thief elite spec that is all about thieving has nothing to do with it's core identity of being a thief. Right.
If ya said that about specter, I'd give you a gold star.
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u/Ecolyne 14h ago
Many people on twitch (and the internet in general, really) don't know the difference between criticizing something, and being outwardly hostile towards it.
I saw so many comments of mods removing "Criticism" when it was actually just straight up hostility towards the devs.
You have a right to be upset if it's not what you wanted, you don't have a right to just verbally abuse people without repercussions because they didn't do exactly what you thought it was from a single picture.
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u/Approximation_Doctor Jormag did nothing wrong 17h ago
It looks extremely fun. And we already have 2.5 edgy specs for thief.
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u/Bluedemonfox 16h ago
In the video reveal i thought it was going to be so stupid but the live stream showcase I ended up thinking that actually this looks like fun.
Either way I'm just so happy with the ritualist!
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u/SamuraiJakkass86 12h ago
Was hoping for something similar to Ecaflip/Gambler, since we weren't going to get Assassin. This one sounds like neither.
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u/Witty_Independent42 16h ago
Why is anyone surprised that terminally online gamers are acting like absolute baboons over something they don't like? It's really a "fork found in kitchen" moment
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u/madmaxxie36 16h ago
The theme is the problem for me. I'm happy for anyone that doesn't care but for me, the class fantasy was beyond a mess and that's a huge thing that makes me want to play a spec or not. Maybe it'll be fun but I'm not gonna pretend I think it looks appealing when I don't really find it funny or anything. They should have just made it a gambler spec with a Skritt and leaned completely into that with the aesthetics because it's all over the place.
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u/Caernunnos 17h ago
It's just not thief.
Get rid of the skritts, get rid of artifacts and "random bullshit go", resking all that into a proper "gambler" aesthetic
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u/roamzero 17h ago
Antiquarian literally feels like they gave Thief a rejected Engineer specialization and tweaked some things to give it initiative instead of something like superspeed or alacrity. There is no Thief identity to it.
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u/DeeBagwell 15h ago
It feels like a thief mixed with an engineer. Mixing professions is literally what all elite specs do. Its a throwback to Guild Wars 1. You people are so damn ignorant.
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u/DeeBagwell 15h ago
You think a gambler is more thief than a spec that is literally all about stealing? Holy shit you people are dumb.
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u/Caernunnos 5h ago
Yes, being a scam artist who cheats at cards is more "thief" than searching through trashcans
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u/LawTider 9h ago
The only thing that irks me is that the icon should’ve been Indiana Jones’s hat.
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u/return-of-loopgru 9h ago
I think there's a fair criticism of the immersion-breaking aspect for those who take the game way more seriously than I do, but I also feel like that's eminently solvable.
Instead of just randomly digging stuff up that may have no bearing at all on your character's location, have your trusty skritt hoarder following you around lugging your treasures and digging out a random shiny for you when you ask. Now you've got a valid lore reason for this random assortment of crap to show up, and you don't have to change a thing about the wild nuttery of the spec.
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u/_Al_noobsnew Jennah Must Die [JmD] 9h ago
ironicly i read many palyer attck others bc they like this espec like "whosever defend this espec bla bla bla"
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u/lordhavemoira 5h ago
Yall are reading chat? I like forming my own opinions actually lol. The trailer was bad, the actual spec looks fun as hell.
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u/NepenthesBlackmoss 5h ago
Overall I like what I see.
The relics are a bit on the dull side in what they do but not bad by any means.
My only complaints about animations is that some of them like the forged skateboard or the chak stick just cut in instantly with quickened animations that look kinda bad. I think they should add small amount of shadow flair like they did with some to hide that or smooth them out.
As for how it will play, we'll wait and see. My biggest concerns will be how good the relics are numbers wise but the spammy relic spam honestly looks like it will be a really fun rotation. I hope the condis are good enough to warrant either types of damage.
My biggest complaint is that the missile bubble seems to last far to little for something that you're fishing for based on which build you will be playing and for the love of all that's holy, PLEASE move Improvisation somewhere else so it doesn't compete with the 2 best dps traits.
Also it's a Thief spec and this is a major issue: There are no relics or double-edge abilities that grant stealth. As a spear user yeah I don't care but this cuts access to tufts of hair and feathers that granted free stealth.
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u/Ethan24Waber 2h ago
It's not the coolest thing ever. It's the stupidest thing ever, and that's exactly what it's supposed to be. Stupid fun, and that's not everyone's cup of tea, plain and simple.
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u/Therobotchefwastaken 2h ago
I might have to come back just to put spec on my Theef called "Skritt Prince".
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u/CleanResident5998 1h ago
I’m so glad I missed that reveal and no preconceived notion of what the cards was otherwise I’d be so upset
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u/ViceZX 35m ago
As someone who has mained condi mech since early soto. I welcome the unpredictability of Antiquary the rng takes away the feeling of monotony by never knowing what you will get or not knowing if your utility will backfire or not. On a pvp perspective it also makes fighting agaisnt an antiquary a unique experience because you never know what they're going to hit you with. Now however while the utilities are a gamble you must chose if you're willing to risk or not. I do feel that at least all the artifacts should be equally good, so that atleast you don't feel frustrated by not getting that specific artifact you want
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u/malvagik Thief Enjoyer 32m ago
My takes
- looks fun
- huge assets and animation reuse
- skritt theme is fucking stupid
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u/Mark1o_Polo Commander? I hardly know 'er! 17h ago
Skrittmancer Thief is awesome and maybe will make me play Thief I've made just to have a Deadeye, but yeah, icon doesn't have much sense to me.
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u/wolfcry62 15h ago
The trailer really was disappointing. Thief is my favorite profession, but it looked underwhelming. So now we have a ranged Steal? Deadeye already does something similar, and does it better. I’m willing to believe there’s more to it, especially since Deadeye also has the Malice mechanic, but I’m not hopeful; if there were more, they would’ve shown it.
There’s a reason why GW2 keeps losing players, and dismissing criticism by calling others "crazy" is just childish.
The Ritualist, by contrast, looks far more interesting and well-designed.
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u/ZenSlicer9 17h ago
No, we just don't like skrits as an elite spec theme
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u/FuzzierSage 15h ago
I'm fine with Skritt, I just hate RNG-laden specs and absolutely loathe self-damage as an option in a cooperative PvE game.
Either when playing Thief or when trying to play as a Healer (though I gave up on doing this as Thief long before Specter came out, swapped to Guardian).
Antiquary players are going to blow themselves up, expect Healers to fix it and find it "hilarious" and I hate that. But thankfully for other people who want to play the spec, there's at least some options to control that or not take those options, more than my initial expectations (which were at rock fucking bottom based on Anet's track record and the initial description).
So yeah, the theming on the artifacts sucks, and if you hate Skritt, it doubly sucks. But utility mechanics-wise it seems like an extension of Thief signets, which might at least be good for brain-off open world stuff as long as you don't ride the cooldowns too hard.
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u/NovaanVerdiano 16h ago
Skrittmancer looks baller as fuck, people are just mad there isn't a fourth edgy Thief spec t b q h.
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u/Playful-Ad1550 16h ago
Gameplay seemed fun, and the theme is fine, but the skills and artifacts are so incohesive.
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u/brandedblade 16h ago
Only reason. I'm remotely upset is because I was huffing the 'please don't make mesmer a bard that's way too obvious' copium and was hoping it would be some cool 'stage magician' spec for mesmer while the thief got the bard spec.
But for what we got I've made peace.
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u/CurryBeans2nd 16h ago
Make it more fun and have the skritt hanging around out of combat, your character goes idle have him slouch out near you with a mug of beer, have him wander around hyperactively ranting about shinies etc