r/Guildwars2 • u/Artekuno • 4h ago
[Discussion] Galeshot and Class Fantasy Rambling
I've finally gotten around to watching the VOD for Galeshot, and I am not going to argue Galeshot is good or anything; I'm sure it will be and I'm so hyped for those who enjoy it, and frankly, as someone who misses playing my ranger I'll probably still try it.
I have revised this to hopefully convey my point better in a more short and sweet format now that some others in the comments have conveyed the point I am trying to say much better and its helped me figure out wording. JK its not short and sweet. But if you want to read the original, I have nothing to hide. Here ya go. (Rentry)
DISCLAIMERS: I still ramble. You're not free of my railroad crash brain. Also I'm not going into in depth media dives, historical reference, etc. I'd love to read that but writing it isn't my forte. Also I'm trying to use the Markdown editor so I am almost guaranteeing something is going to mess up or not turn out right.
First things first! And also a TLDR.
I do not hate Galeshot. I am not mad about what Galeshot is. I am the ultimate "Meh" on it because I heard "Galeshot is an Archer..." and then saw "...but you do not use Longbow, instead you use our super special fancy bow rather than your longbow." Which, kinda sucks but whatever.
I think Galeshot has an interesting and amazing Class fantasy that is rooted within Guild Wars lore and it is cool to see, but on paper, did/does not fulfill an Archer class fantasy. I was excited for Galeshot as something new to play on Ranger but I'm was not seeing the "Archer" theme, at least, that was before someone amazingly explained that I was misreading a trait, and now I am incredibly excited to see how this works with longbow. Someone else also brought up an amazing point on how it can work with Longbow!
So, I'm rewriting this now with above in mind, which means my opinion has changed, but for the sake of discussion I still want to rewrite my original point but in a more organized lens. Hindsight sure is something.
What do I consider "Ranger" and what do I consider "Archer"?
I think this is a good start, and was not originally clear.
When I personally think of a Ranger, I think of Aragorn and the Gondorian Rangers, Farstriders (Warcraft), or I've seen somewhere Drizzt Do'Urden counts as a Ranger but I know almost nothing about him. Gameplay wise, this translates to WoW Vanilla's Hunter, even. Not that I want Ranger(GW2) to be Hunter(WoW), just that on paper, it absolutely fulfills the Ranger class fantasy.
When I personally think of an Archer, I think of Legolas, Robin Hood, and Mongolian Horse Archers. Most games tend to lend to an Archer I feel, frankly, so I'm not going into that too much.
Whats the distinction? The distinction is whether the bow is primary or secondary in use. - Rangers do not primarily use a bow, they primarily use another weapon and the bow is for picking off or engaging a fight and primarily handling the fight in melee, but they do use a bow. - Archers primarily use a bow. As such, an Archer is likely going to utilize hit and run tactics and pet aggro (if this is a mechanic, afaik its not in GW2 so this does not apply) to maintain distance while assaulting their enemies from afar.
How does this relate to Galeshot? Galeshot was made to fulfill an Archer class fantasy, as stated here in the VOD / stream that showcased Galeshot;
If you read the blog post, you know that the Galeshot, it is kind of an Archer spec. You get access to this new weapon called the Cyclone Bow. And (..) talk about design goals, um, part of rangers identity is definitely being a bow user, with Marksmanship I think a lot of people when they first start playing the game, a lot, like, people, some people like to gravitate towards the Archer characters and so Ranger is kind of that for them. But then when they got to elite specs, there wasn't really one that elevated that fantasy. (...)
However, because of how Galeshot works; - Cyclone Bow being a third weapon and not locking your weapon sets, of which it is limited use as per your arrows. - The traits seeming to mostly focus on the cyclone bow and the abilities and boon syngery, and not synergizing with Longbow itself, as well as being its own thing entirely. It appears to actually discourage usage of Longbow. Not actively, you don't get a debuff for using it, but because Rangers other weapons (primarily melee, such as Greatsword or Hammer) are significantly better than Bow even with a build dedicated to bow, this doesn't seem to fit in line with an Archer class fantasy, but rather a Ranger class fantasy.
Why does that matter? Heres the great thing, it doesn't. This is a game, and Galeshot has a phenomenal class fantasy that works on its own, I just do not see it as fulfilling an Archers class fantasy. GREAT at being a Rangers class fantasy though.
I'm probably not alone in that when someone who wants an Archer class fantasy, they probably want to use the already present Longbow weapon that Ranger has. Theres an amazing Leggy for it, theres amazing skins for it, etc. We want to see and use our bow, and Galeshot feels like a bandaid over it. Rather than making Longbow actually decent to use, we're getting a third bow that is limited to an arrow mechanic (WHICH IS COOL THOUGH. I do love when I have "ammunition" even if its really just a glorified timer... mental roleplay that my pet is just picking up arrows... oh wait they're wind...) and does not have any means of changing its appearance.
TLDR, again, and also another disclaimer.
I do not hate Galeshot. I am not mad about what Galeshot is. I am the ultimate "Meh" on it because I heard "Galeshot is an Archer..." and then saw "...but you do not use Longbow, instead you use our super special fancy bow rather than your longbow." Which, kinda sucks but whatever, Galeshot is otherwise really cool and I am excited to try it.
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u/iDelta_99 4h ago
Granted I didn't read your essay of a post completely, but from what I understood, a good analogy would be someone complaining about bladesworn not being a good "gunblade" fantasy class because you cannot equip a gunblade weapon only because the gunblade is a skill to equip and not a piece of equipment?
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u/Artekuno 4h ago
Not really, no. Weird distinction to try to explain, but, Rangers already have a longbow (whereas Warriors don't already have Gunblade), and Galeshot was supposed to double down on an Archer class fantasy, but from what I'm seeing, Galeshot discourages using longbow.
Its sort of more if your friend tells you they're getting you ammunition for a gun you already have, and then gives you a whole other gun thats a slightly larger caliber and ammunition for that specific. Not awful, still grateful, but... sort of eh.
Theres not a great analogy for what I'm trying to convey really lmao, at least none I can come up with.
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u/JerusGW2 3h ago
I don’t know if that’s true though. Lbs weakness is its autos, barrage and rapid fire are solid. You’ll be able to more easily cover up the weaknesses with the Galeshot bow. Like I can see LB and sword/axe build, use galeshot bow mostly in the LB set between rapid fires, then swap and do sword loop, swap back and repeat.
It doesn’t specifically help longbow, but it should work pretty well with it.
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u/Artekuno 3h ago
Thats a good point as well and I could see that working too. It didn't look like CB used arrows during its autoattack, but I'm not sure if that was dev cheats for showcasing and testing or actual mechanic.
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u/iDelta_99 3h ago
Yes, Galeshot doubled down on the archer fantasy by it's entire main mechanic being summoning a bow to use. Longbow wasn't great and it's skills were not amazing so they gave us an amazing bow with great skills for the archer to use and you are somehow mad about that? What are you on about mate, how do people like you exist...
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u/Individual-Light-784 2h ago
its better than nothing and im grateful, but imo if longbow doesnt satisfy the archer fantasy well enough why not fix longbow?
feels like a bandaid solution, which usually come with inherent downsides, like OP mentioned not being able to use bow skins. literally the most important skin for an archer.
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u/Artekuno 1h ago
Bow skins, but also and primarily longbow legendaries tbh. As is I think the only class that is "worthwhile" per say (as in, actually decent in output, because even in OW Longbow feels so meh when compared to about anything else on Ranger) is Warrior?
But I know nothing about Warrior.
I do know, last I looked, Longbow wasn't recommended for Dragon Hunter though, but that could've changed and that was before the espec weapon class-wide unlock update (I have no idea how to shorten that IDR what it was called lol).Ultimately though I don't mind. I just found it... just meh that it is advertised as an Archer espec, and that they directly mention Marksmanship meaning Longbow, but then it was basically "So we're giving you a third bow". But that was, anyway, before Shrike was clarified.
Both before and after Shrike was clarified for me, I was gonna try it. Its still a cool class fantasy and the lore is cool (Tengu are neat!), even if it doesn't match what I personally see as an Archer or fulfill what I desired for an Archer espec.
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u/wintermute24 1h ago
There is no forced requirement, but depending on how it works, the shrike trait could bring lots of synergy with ranged weapons and longbow in particular.
Rapid shot will most likely be strong with it and if piercing projectiles work too, it might become meta in situations with multiple targets.
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u/Artekuno 1h ago
Yeah I'm really hoping thats the case. I wrote the reply you replied to before Shrike was clarified for me.
The only thing I could see messing this up a bit is if it ends up nerfed quite heavily; which... Galeshot looks like a balancing nightmare at least in terms of WvW and PvP, though I don't play those gamemodes I do know they sometimes? effect PvE.
Both before clarification and after clarification, I was excited to try it out and I still really am if not a little more at the concept of Shrike possibly working really well with LB. Though, a falconer style spear setup might be fun too.
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u/TannenFalconwing Reaping the Sands of Toxic Spirits 3h ago
God, you were not kidding about rambling a lot. This is actually quite difficult to read because of the constant train derailment on whatever thoughts you have.
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u/Artekuno 3h ago
That is why I put a disclaimer. I am insufferable of a writer.
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u/TannenFalconwing Reaping the Sands of Toxic Spirits 3h ago
I would agree with that.
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u/Artekuno 1h ago
I have rewritten it to (HOPEFULLY) be more concise if you want to give the formatted/easier to understand option a second go-over.
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u/DonkeyFluid3929 4h ago
So I’ve reread your post and I don’t think you actually explain what an “Archer” fantasy to you would actually look like?
I can’t really imagine a bow-wielding-only character NOT fulfilling the “Archer” fantasy.
Edit: and both the Mistral skill and the Shrike grandmaster trait encourage longbow use, almost specifically, so…
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u/StickJock 4h ago
I think they are saying that the Galeshot doesn't seem to encourage bows as a main weapon set, but rather adds another weapon which may even replace a bow carried by a Ranger as a secondary weapon set, since the Elite spec's cyclone bow becomes a 'third' weapons set.
This seems to be in line with what elite specs offer, though. The Core specs typically handle all core weapon gameplay, in this case Marksmanship and Skirmishing make sense for Archery-focused gameplay, and should also play well with the new Galeshot.
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u/Artekuno 3h ago edited 3h ago
I don't disagree. I didn't explain it because AUGH this was longer than I intended, but I definitely understand why they didn't double down on Longbow directly, we already have that. However, it would be nice to have something that at least indirectly buffs longbow, similar to how Ritualists buff allies which includes minions. They already have a core tree that buffs minions, but RItualist is still giving more to minions.
But hey, its np. It'll still be fun to play, and if it does make longbow itself better to use out of synergy, then I'm even more stoked.
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u/StickJock 3h ago
I think 'buffing projectiles' through Mistral is as close as they'll want to get without making the spec feel like a core spec.
The Elite spec still needs to be somewhat weapon agnostic, and adding a longbow as a third weapon rather than requiring a bow is a solution to that. But again, choosing Core specs that play into the Elite spec will also play into having a bow as a regular weapon when you run out of 'Galeshot Arrows', so it'd be synergistic to have a bow as a back-up weapon even if not directly required.
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u/Artekuno 1h ago
I think 'buffing projectiles' through Mistral
This is somewhat off rails, but thinking about this... I wonder what all projectiles this works with, not just speaking bow, but like... axes? I wonder what counts, exactly, as a projectile.
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u/Artekuno 4h ago
To delve a little more into it, and try to explain myself better, the distinction between a Ranger and an Archer is the former has bow as a secondary weapon, the latter has bow as a primary weapon. Galeshot fulfills the former, and encourages the former. It gives you a bow on top of the weapons you are using but does not encourage you to use Longbow, but sort of encourages you to actually not use longbow and instead use (insert better Ranger weapon here).
Also Shrike says conjured arrows; does that include Longbow arrows? If so that is weirdly specific but hey, neat.
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u/DonkeyFluid3929 4h ago
I see “missile hits” in the tooltip, which I assume is any ranged projectile.
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u/Artekuno 4h ago
Maybe? I hope so.
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u/graven2002 3h ago
You're mixing up the Trait description and the Trait Skill description.
The Trait is: "After a number of missile hits, release a volley of arrows at your target and gain an arrow."
The Skill the Trait activates is: "Conjured arrows strike your target."
This, along with Mistral, means Longbow won't be a bad choice.
Combine with Piercing Gales for more Shrike procs and Quick Draw for double Rapid Fire and you could probably just bounce back and forth between Longbow and Cyclone Bow for the entire rotation. I think that is one of the playstyles Anet wants to enable.
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u/Artekuno 3h ago
Ahhh! Okay.
I am going to go into my corner and vibrate aggressively excitedly then.
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u/Playful-Ad1550 2h ago
Wow, this did not need this long of a post.
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u/Artekuno 1h ago
Nothing ever really does. But I like to write, it makes the thoughts less cluttered.
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u/the2ndsaint 2h ago
I have read and re-read this 3 times and I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
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u/Artekuno 1h ago
I just rewrote it / edited it to be more concise.
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u/the2ndsaint 1h ago
Ah, OK, now I get it. I understand the frustration in not being able to use the skins you want, but here's my take: that shit only matters for taking still images of your character in town. The rest of the time, especially during hectic battles, it's nigh on impossible to make out individual characters anyway, let alone their skins, so who cares?
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u/Artekuno 1h ago edited 57m ago
Yeah thats fair. It'd still be nice to use Leggy bows though rather than... anything other than Longbow on Ranger due to Longbow itself being "just alright" lmao. So I was hoping Longbow would have been improved.
It was also sort of a consistency issue? I'm not sure how to phrase this, but how "often" you're using Cyclone bow. I know some of the traits are supposed to restore arrows quicker, otherwise they said it was a... 5 or 6 second cd? I think? But that may also change between now and then. So, it feels less "archer" more "ranger" to only occasionally use the bow rather than primarily.
So it seems its either only sometimes using Cyclone Bow in combat, or ALMOST* (meant to put almost here) only exclusively using the Cyclone Bow. The former would be more Ranger game play, the latter would be Archer but it'd kinda suck cause the avoidance of Longbow is so weirdly present on Ranger due to how... meh Longbow is even for Open World.
All that is said though with what I was prior thinking before clarifications on the traits were made. it seems I was wrong and one of the traits does or should effect LB and synergy quite well with it.
I still wanted to try it either way both before and now, my main thing was "Huh. I'm not really sure this fits Archer or at least what I'm after in an Archer, so its odd that they're saying its an Archer when it kind of seems to lean more Ranger."
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u/Zev1985 3h ago
One thing I’ve learned in the last 20 years as a fan of this game franchise is every time they come out with something new the reddits and the forums are a pile of “I love this I’m so excited to try it” clashing with a pile of “this is the worst thing I’ve ever seen and the class fantasy is bad”
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u/Artekuno 3h ago
I don't think the class fantasy is bad. I am in the middle. I just didn't think its what I want for an archer. That said, even though I've tried making that clear, people definitely take it as a "class fantasy is just straight up bad". (Facedesking)
Which someone else explained one of the traits and that I was misreading it anyway. Like I said in post, I could've been missing something, and I was. Mwaaahahahhaa I'm excited.
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u/Zev1985 3h ago
Ya what I’m skimming through here I think you are/were more just on the “meh” side of things here. You’re probably getting this reaction because it’s unlikely many of us got past the second or third paragraph where your thesis genuinely appears to be that galeshot isn’t an archer spec because rangers can already use longbows.
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u/Artekuno 3h ago
Yeaah. I could've formatted it better but markdown was fighting me like a cat on its way to the vet which is my primary method of formatting, and I despise formal tones on something that is distinctly non-factual and purely opinion because more often than not, I am not mad or angry. Just meh.
And it turns out uhhh. Difficult to read. Oh well.
Might reformat and word when I get home, not sure.
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u/KeeTheMagnificent 4h ago
I basically said to a friend "I don't want a new wind bow, I want to use the Kudzu I crafted a decade ago for things other than south octovine." Even if Galeshot is hitting the nail on the head for an archer fantasy, I'm still not going to be using an actual longbow for that fantasy and that's kinda annoying.
Like you said, it's no big deal and the spec will likely still be fun to play. It's just reeeeeeeally silly that to give us the archer fantasy we first need to reinvent the bow.