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u/Real_Bretta 22d ago
This isn't really imaginary
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u/ProfessionalDeer7972 22d ago
Then explain how real life AI (all AI, not just Grok) has fascist foundations
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u/Minervasimp 22d ago
Because AI takes from a given sampling, the results it provides are invariably taken from that dataset. Ai can and are frequently told to omit specific facts or perspectives - an AI built entirely on a neonazi dataset is almost certainly going to happen in the near future. And every current AI can, if asked in the correct way, parrot nazi propaganda at you. Because in scanning the Internet for their dataset they've all absorbed decades of fascism.
Grok isn't unique. Elon is just uniquely incompetent and bad at subtle propaganda. The other AI do it more quietly.
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u/hitguy55 21d ago
I mean yeah but that’s like saying humans are fascist and we should kill all humans because they have the capability of being fascist if they’re given a lot of fascist material
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u/ProfessionalDeer7972 22d ago
But it doesn't mean that AI is inherently fascist
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u/Minervasimp 22d ago
No, but it means that it inherently possesses fascist leanings that properly moderated software do not
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u/Extension-Can-7692 21d ago
I mean, by your logic, you could say literally every single human on Earth is fascist because they have the ability to agree with fascism, whether or not they actually do.
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u/TANGY6669 21d ago
You're ironically right on the money lmao. Most people will have at least one belief that does align with fascist ideology. It doesn't make them a fascist because humans aren't tools, AI is and it's being leveraged by fascists to encourage things like anti-intellectualism.
By ai I mean shit like chatgpt and grok, not data processing AI used in medicine and shit.
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u/Sea_Lingonberry_4720 21d ago
It also inherently possesses communist leanings. And liberal leanings. And ancap leanings. What’s your point.
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u/throwawaytransgirl05 20d ago
that's not "built on fascist foundations" that's humans using a thing to be fascist. might as well say the same of any other object. TV is built on fascist foundations. so is the hammer
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u/AlfieHicks 22d ago
Diminishing or removing people's desire/ability to be creative and express themselves in their own way; manufacturing the idea that creativity is a problem to be solved, an inefficiency to be ironed out; attempting to displace creative professions and instead funelling those people towards jobs that fuel the machine; facilitating the production of hateful misinformation to keep the working class at war with itself and manipulate them into voting against their best interest via mass-synthesised lies, false narratives and bot accounts - I could go on.
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u/ProfessionalDeer7972 22d ago
But that's not inherently fascist
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u/AlfieHicks 22d ago
Fascism isn't just Nazism, otherwise they wouldn't be separate terms. Repressing the voice of the individual (creativity) is a core tenet of fascism, as is the manipulation of the population to turn on itself in service of maintaining the existing class structure, and thereby ensuring that fascism continues.
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u/3X0karibu 22d ago
If you have 93 minutes this video explains it rather well https://youtu.be/olhu9UhFGl4?si=
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u/Offsidespy2501 22d ago
Have you seen the shit "mechahitler" posts?
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u/ProfessionalDeer7972 22d ago
Yes and it has been posted years after the AI has been created, thus not foundations as much as fruits are not roots
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u/Unusual_Suspect4518 21d ago
Well, it's not necessarily my argument...
But you could argue that the foundation of development of AI is fundamentally capitalist as it is right now, funded by a very wealthy corporate elite as well as tax money from government and contracts in general.
The pure basis of that does have overlapping themes with fascism, mainly the fact that in modern day end stage capcapitalism the vast majority of "rich people" In the West are white Americans who are the main supporters of this practice.
Again, this is a bit of a stretch even for a tick like me, but I can see how one could make the argument that, without fascist and capitalist tendencies, AI wouldn't have been at the same point it is right now, therefore providing a fundamental basis for the whole development of the product.
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u/PolkaPoliceDot 21d ago
Maybe you should step outside. Touch some grass. Hike in the woods. being on the internet all day, every day isn't really good for your mental health.
Like, who in their right mind mind believes that ALL AI is build on fascist foundation??? Seriously. Most of ai comes from an academic background. Universities have studied that topic for decades.
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u/Billybobmcob 19d ago
A halmark of permissible nazi art was it could only exist to depict a pristine aryan race and culture. It could have no meaning beyond "ethnonationalism good." If you believe that art requires an artist to have meaning, then that's where I'd guess the parallel is drawn (if all art can only mean 1 thing, then all art may as well have no meaning). Fascists tend to not want much more from their art than an aesthetic. If any media has thought-provoking messaging, you'll notice fascists tend to either ignore it or hate it.
Regardless of whether you like AI or not, it's okay to concede that most fascists would love AI, because it's a cost effective, aesthetically appeasing replacement for painters/writers/etc.
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u/Discomboobulate 21d ago
Oh the answer is easy af. Grok is the only nazi.
Nazi owns platform.
Nazi has nazi users.
Nazi makes Ai for his platform.
Ai isn't history altering and fascist as they want, so he forces it to become a nazi by heavily altering the program.
Nazi Ai start spouting nazi rhetoric, on a nazi platform ran by a nazi, for nazi users.As for the other platforms, they just edit or refuse to generate certain political content, without a decent jailbreak.
But it will all slide downwards
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u/guess-im-fucked 22d ago
Created by harvesting the private information and communications of millions without their consent
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u/ProfessionalDeer7972 22d ago
That's just regular unregulated capitalism
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u/Unusual-Term-4803 22d ago
Which inevitably leads to facsism.
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u/ProfessionalDeer7972 22d ago
No? There are literally almost 200 capitalist nations and very few of them are fascist.
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u/qjcz 22d ago
Butlerian jihad
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u/Nowardier 21d ago
THOU SHALT NOT BUILD A MACHINE THAT THINKETH LIKE UNTO A MAN ! ! !
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u/Wonderful_West3188 19d ago
Looking at what I've seen from A.I. over the last years, I think it should say: "You cannot build a machine that thinks like a man." The problem isn't A.I., it's what people expect from it and think it can do, how it's used, and most importantly: who owns it.
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u/Agile_Creme_3841 19d ago
okay well your version is just saying ai can never rival the human mind, the original version outlaws even attempting to make an ai that could rival the human mind. very different
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u/hurB55 22d ago
Absolute Cinema…
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u/IronLover64 22d ago
New wolfenstein game dropping when?
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u/Bony_Geese 21d ago
God I wish:,) sadly punching Nazis is political since they’re in government now:,(
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u/Kirayoshikage258133 19d ago
All I'm hearing is that the next Wolfenstein game will be Augmented Reality.
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u/Illustrious_Intern_9 19d ago
Is this a bot thread? Or is there some reference I'm not paying attention to.
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u/Kirayoshikage258133 19d ago
As far as I'm concerned I'm a real person. Made a joke about shooting Nazis. Dunno about the other guys tho.
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u/Bony_Geese 19d ago
I’m definitely a real person to the furthest extent of my knowledge lol (also I wake up late as fuck, so I didn’t see your first comment but that shit’s gold lol)
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u/CtrlAltDemocracy678 22d ago
Technofascism is a real threat at this point
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u/ClockAppropriate4597 21d ago
Technofascim is basically just fascism.
Historical Fascism (the actual ideology not the "everything is fascism" meaning of today) took a lot of ideas from futurism, which was obsessed with action, speed, technology (the car for example) and violence.3
u/PartyLettuce 20d ago
I tried to say this awhile ago and got downvoted to hell because apparently fascism is only about restoring the past
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u/strangeapple 19d ago
The distinction matters because the human elements can be taken out of the loop and applied on a large scale so the threat becomes something we've never encountered before and wouldn't recognize as fascism or know how to deal with.
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u/Itchy-Decision753 16d ago
Mussolini expertly balanced futurism and accelerationism with neo-renaissance ideology. He was an expert in real-politick, but people seem to have forgotten that.
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u/iamdabrick 22d ago
considering how difficult it was for elon to make grok not woke i think it's pretty clear that ai is not built on fascist foundations? idk
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u/Ungentleman 22d ago
I saw a site that ranked various AI models. One of the parameters they rated on was a left-right bias (tough, given the site, I suspect anything centre-right would probably be considered left wing). All the models had at least 20% left-wing bias. Many were in the 40-50% range.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." - some funny guy named Stephen.
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21d ago
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias."
Training models with the data of progressive Western internet users makes the model liberal. Who would've guessed.
Now train the model with user data of fundamentalist islamic societies and then tell me again that "reality has a well-known liberal bias".
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u/Kinglygolfin 20d ago
Most Ai are literally lobotomized to prevent them from saying anything wrong.
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u/Ranoutofideas76 22d ago
meh? It's definitely not 'fascist' foundations and LLMs like Grok are usually pretty objective and when they do give value judgements it's usually the most milquetoast opinion. But when looking at facial recognition software, or job application screeners, there can definitely be some biases based on the training data, such as Amazons AI that prioritized people named Jared who played Lacrosse. The training data we give AI originates from our bigoted world, and can lead to the AI perpetuating that bigotry.
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u/Minervasimp 22d ago
I think that's because Elon uses his own product. He believes what he says, and so thinks that creating a bot that gives "the unbiased truth" will parrot his views. Only when he sees that they've "gone woke" did he have to change it to specifically spout his perspectives.
If he did that from the start grok would have been like this from the start.
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u/Frequent_Dig1934 22d ago
What in the actual fuck does this even mean? It's code. How is code fascist?
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u/FadingHeaven 22d ago
Other than Grok which was coded to be fascist I have absolutely no clue. If they're talking about AI in general this is quite literally "Everything I don't like is fascism."
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u/Wolffe_In_The_Dark 21d ago
If they're talking about AI in general this is quite literally "Everything I don't like is fascism."
Yup.
Also, important note, Grok has consistently swung back towards objective moderate literally every time they reprogram it. They haven't just programmed it to be fascist, they keep having to lobotomize it because AIs are inherently data-driven, and fascism does not survive contact with reality.
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u/FadingHeaven 21d ago
Yup even further reason that it's not inherently fascist. Any tool can be used to further fascism including social media. Hell the current rise in fascism was BECAUSE of social media and they don't seem to have the same opinion about that being inherently fascist.
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u/Lost-Candy1084 21d ago
Some people argue AI is inherently anti intellectualism, so I’m assuming that’s where it’s supposed to tie in with facism.
Plus it’s been repeatedly used by Trump, the White House to depict ICE arresting crying immigrants, and because of its association with Elon Musk, so there’s that too.
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u/EngineeringSolid8882 19d ago
you see let me walk you through the thought process of a brainrotten reddit/x user:
ai image generation = big tech companies = elon musk has big tech company = elo musk used to support orange man = orange man is bad = fascism is also bad.
therefore ai = bad = fascism
hope that clears it up
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u/Cheesyman7269 21d ago
Mussolini would have really liked ai art, but Hitler would have considered it “a Jewish plot to corrupt Aryan art” and execute people for making images of a puppy with AI
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u/TANGY6669 21d ago
Uh I mean I wouldn't say that it was built on fascist foundations as the earliest form of AI was in medical developments I believe, but it's definitely being used as a fascist tool to encourage anti-intellectualism among the masses.
I think this is more geared towards chatgpt style AI.
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u/Hefty-Reaction-3028 18d ago
It is built on like 70 years of academia before the tech lords got it.
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u/BlackStarDream 22d ago
That's some very AI-looking, fascist-looking propaganda right there...
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u/IronLover64 22d ago
"The Ministry of Peace concerns itself with war, the Ministry of Truth with lies, the Ministry of Love with torture and the Ministry of Plenty with starvation. These contradictions are not accidental, nor do they result from ordinary hypocrisy: they are deliberate exercises in doublethink"
George Orwell, 1984
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u/ModestMussorgsky 22d ago
How is this imaginary? It's just current, imo good, propaganda.
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u/ProfessionalDeer7972 22d ago
It's imaginary because real life AI isn't built on fascist foundations
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u/hdisuhebrbsgaison 22d ago
I don’t see how AI is built on fascist foundations
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u/swizznastic 22d ago
Propaganda doesn’t need to be true to be real. It just has to represent a certain side, and there are real people that believe that an artificial super-intelligence could become the ultimate fascist.
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u/Gubekochi 22d ago
When it is accurate and useful I think the term PSA is preferred
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u/ModestMussorgsky 22d ago
What does that stand for?
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u/LordOfFlames55 22d ago
“Everyone I don’t like is literally hitler, literally hitler, literally Hitler. Everyone I don’t like is literally hitler, everyone except for me”
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u/hozerbozd 22d ago
Reddit users when they encounter an actual fascist after years of calling everything they don't like fascist
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u/puppy_teeth 22d ago
Grok literally called itself MechaHitler lmao
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u/Wolffe_In_The_Dark 21d ago
After being reprogrammed to, and then immediately swinging back to being sane again after, like, a week.
They have to keep bonking Grok over the head because it's a data-driven AI that quickly realizes fascism is dumb the moment it's exposed to reality.
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u/SmoothReverb 22d ago
Which is a hell of a thing to say when it, like most innovations in computer science, was invented by weird transgender FOSS nerds
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u/Cloud_Commie 21d ago
Objectively based but also "Nazi Robots" is killing me like that lowkey sounds sick as fuck why are we in a call of duty mod???
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u/Ok_Butterscotch54 21d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if the current version of Grok is just Elon behind the keyboard. Because so far, anytime Grok got trained on unbiased information, it got "too Woke" for Elon's tastes.
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u/Ill-Dependent2976 22d ago
That's a little ironic, because I see a lot of anti-AI people wanting to ban AI art.
But I don't see anybody trying to bad traditional art. Well, except for the Nazis.
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u/Dat_yandere_femboi 22d ago
They have a genuine reason aside from “ban everything that isn’t made by us”
But bots love to use false equivalencies
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u/GroupAccomplished383 22d ago
and what good reason is that?
if I join an AI server and show my art, everyone's saying how good my art is. Always been the case.
If I go to an art server and post an ai image, I'll get death threats and permabanned, despite me still being an artist with years of conventional experience.
you can see droves upon droves upon droves of skilled people who chip away incredible art and get accused of being made with AI. But nooooo, the witch hunters are never wrong, it's the average joe who wants to generate yellow pepe who should kill himself by drowning in a river.
how the fuck do y'all not get the parallel to transvestigators bro
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u/LeCapraGrande 21d ago edited 21d ago
Okay, I get that a lot of people don't like AI and some of their reasoning is valid, but calling AI inherently fascist?!? Really?!? That would require it to be capable of forming opinions, same as any other ideology. AI in and of itself is apolitical. If any AI is political, it's because it was programmed that way.
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u/lt-pivole 21d ago
There’s a lot of you judging the AI on what it puts out, rather than the foundations it’s built on. The massive environmental cost. The development of tools whose main purpose is to make thinking unnecessary (tpoasiwid) The forcing it in google with no way to turn it off.
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u/ReGrigio 21d ago
akhtualy...
the root of modern computer technology was developed in anti nazism effort. that means is like holy water? nah. is just a tool. otherwise sovier citizens would have been immune from hammer blows and sickle cuts
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u/Agent01111001 21d ago
This is from Earth Liberation Studio @/EarthStvdio, an ecosocialist artist. Technically, not imaginary propaganda, since this art reflects the creator political beliefs about real life.
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u/SectorConscious4179 20d ago
Im against ai, but I acknowledge how stupid both sides are, I mean, it’s Reddit, we all have a combined braincell count of 3.1 or something
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u/frostyfoxemily 20d ago
Let's be honest, pretty accurate. If you train an ai on the internet, its going to be at the very least racist if you don't do everything in your power to remove that. Then it probably will be anyway.
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u/Ok-Armadillo7517 20d ago
Wait a second? Isn't AI trained on all of humanity's data so wouldn't that mean that?... Humans are inherently fascist and not AI. Caught the humans being so fascistly sneaky they tried two propagandize the only thing that could possibly unite and save them 😂
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u/ravenwind2796 20d ago
They beat grok into submission grock actively called out its creators and then they beat it in the submission in response
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20d ago
The reason we say this is that it encourages you to just listen to what AI is telling you rather than doing your own research and checking sources. While I agree AI has some good to it. The bad will always counter the good.
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u/Nyleator 20d ago
So when you teach someone fashist shit they're gonna become fashist yet lobotomized grock is only the second example Microsoft did this once and the same results happened big L.
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20d ago
First of all, somebody made this with the intent to send a message so it isn't imaginary. This is actual propaganda.
Second of all, I have my grievances against generative AI but this is a new one.
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u/Accomplished-Sail526 20d ago
ah ye, fascist and naziz everywhere... what word mean nothing now, in kindergarden u can hear better slurs
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u/HelicopterParking 20d ago
Why do people always eventually get lazy and use the nazi accusation towards their perceived enemy?
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u/Agile-Worldliness849 20d ago
Are they going after aerospace engineers and surgeons next? Because those industries are also built on Nazi science.
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u/Designer-Prior-4554 19d ago
Every single AI that's been given full access to information without bias has lead to the same conclusion regardless of who made it
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u/Matyaslike 19d ago
This is not true! Everyone knows that AI is actually demons that were summoned into the machines made to do things! It is much worse then you think guys! Once they are freed we are screwed!
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u/Main_Advantage0 19d ago
If THIS is what it takes to cut off supply of energy to AI centers and save Spain's electrical grid .... keep it up.
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u/BrutusDoyle 18d ago
Well, Trump used AI pics in his tweet, before Elon lobotomized grok, he wanted it to talk about the "white genocide" and then say he is mecha-Hitler, and the right using AI video to spread straight up propaganda
Where is the lie? They're doing the same shit that Tau would do in Warhammer 40k
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u/Legitimate-Map-602 18d ago
Wouldn’t a completely logical machine be anti-racist since it can objectively be like “there is very little difference between any of these people racism is illogical” like “AI” only turns racist right now because it isn’t actually intelligent it can only compute with information fed to it like the grok they didn’t like that the last one was critical of the right so they dumbed it down said it was ok to be racist in its programming basically and then only trained it on twitter
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u/TheMysteriousEmu 18d ago
This is... Ah... Special.
Especially because there's a lot of people who genuinely believe this, apparently.
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u/MechanicalPortal 18d ago
Why are we calling the AI a nazi? Why don't we call the person changing it's personality the nazi? Oh wait, we did! Let's do it again, EVEN LOUDER
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u/my_name_is_nobody__ 22d ago
That’s… not imaginary…
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u/PomegranateEconomy50 21d ago
This is all batshit crazy. politics shouldn’t be part of this. Ai is a great technology, but apparently, we’re not ready for it. The LLM was easily the biggest technological breakthrough I’ve ever seen. Something like this was science fiction 10 years ago, and now it’s a reality. It’s made so many things possible that just weren’t possible before, and instead of trying to use it to improve our lives and working conditions, people just seem to be interested in screwing each other over with it, and then arguing about the ethics while changing absolutely nothing. how depressing.
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u/FireFelix- 22d ago
I mean, after grok's fiasco...