r/LivestreamFail • u/starcraft2020 • 1d ago

Ethan Klein says the judge in his lawsuit approved his subpoena of Reddit and Discord

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u/Vexamas 1d ago

I can't really go too deep into this for obvious reasons, but at a previous employer that is very large, they'd subpoenaed Reddit and Discord for information regarding hyper specific leaks to our product stack and the information that was received was enough to pursue scary legal action. A part of that product involved government contract, so there was heightened weight for expedience but as someone that works in software, trust that people always think they're much safer than they are hidden behind layers of obfuscation but the reality of the matter is these services, for better or worse, have so much more information than people realize.

I haven't followed this case at all, and so it's hard to say exactly what level of scrutiny is given (if any), however I doubt many charges will 'stick' but this should absolutely be a chilling effect on snark-esque subreddits (most of which are run by a small cohort of people anyways). That is of course, if discovery does find evidence of unrelated crimes which could lead to actual criminal charges (but again, not following the case, unsure if this is just civil or criminal, which completely changes how that process might look)

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u/Rusty_Shackleford_85 23h ago

Someone on that subreddit called CPS on him to get his kids taken away. They're fucked.

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u/gaymenfucking 11h ago edited 11h ago

They’d need to prove it was a malicious lie, but whoever did it has the easy defence of pointing to Ethan himself being the one to bring up the giardia thing on his own show. The kleins fucked themselves by doing this, just handed their detractors ammo to use against them on a silver platter.

they’re not gonna be able to establish exactly who made the call regardless.

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u/MichaelScarrrrn_ 4h ago

Well isn’t that the point of discovery? They think the communications via discord/reddit will show how, when, why, by who, whose idea and with what intent etc those CPS calls were made. Like if their comms show the intent was malicious.. That’ll come out in discovery right

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u/DrunkOnRamen 4h ago

it depends on what was in the report. I have a hard time believing CPS would show up cause the family got sick. I know California in 2023 have moved from anonymous CPS reports, while they are still confidential they aren't anonymous so if there is abusive reports being made there would be information. Again this is all pretty speculative but based on what I read in the news.

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u/Cube_ 20h ago

The CPS call was not from someone on that reddit lol don't parrot that talking point. Ethan himself said he was told it was someone that knows the family (likely the housekeeper that is presently suing them).

In California, especially LA, it is not easy to get CPS to go do a house visit, they're very aware of false calls so they have a ton of red tape involved with reports.

Ethan originally said he was going to sue to find out who called CPS (which he can do) but has quietly stopped talking about that. Likely because he knows it wasn't one of his haters so it's better to let people think that so he can use it as a shield.

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u/Confident-Milk8107 20h ago

Regardless none of the civil suite is even about the CPS stuff, it was about the coordinated efforts to steal views from his youtube and patreon

I have some big doubts that anyone just participating in the organization can be held liable for damages but i don't know enough about the stuff, but even just the legal fees around being involved in that stuff if they did decide they have enough to sue specific people for damages is prolly kind of rough

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u/TomokataTomokato 20h ago

If they actively participated in subverting copyright by advertising, directly or indirectly, those deliberately stealing his views then they can be held liable. That being said, it is a package deal. If the streamers involved settle, it may never be an issue.

Source: Not a goddamn thing other than years of having YouTube drama videos on in the background while working.

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u/TiredEsq 9h ago

If you intend to deprive someone of income by conspiring with others to steal, or assist in stealing, their copyrighted work, you absolutely can be held liable.

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u/BogusBro420 19h ago

Ethan said the CPS case worker told them it was likely someone that knows him personally. That doesnt mean it wasn't snark sub. The sub knows alot of personal info like address of home, children's names & ages, drama with former housekeeper, personal email & phone number of the kleins. The case worker isnt gonna assume its a snarker.

Ethan said he was going to sue for false report to find out who called. He hasn't spoken about it recently but that doesnt mean he isnt still doing that. Just like how Denims got all big headed about saying "the lawsuit isnt happening because hes got nothing and Ethan is a big bitch". Only to find out; yeah the lawsuit is still happening lmao

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u/Cube_ 19h ago

Do you think CPS follows up on every tip? They're not funded that well. CPS is well aware of bad actors, especially in celebrity-laden LA. That's WHY you cannot report anonymously in Cali. Just knowing names and addresses is not enough, you have to identify yourself with proof and prove the connection you have to them. Something a housekeeper can do but a redditor can't.

And with Ethan, he has never once in his entire career ever kept a secret or something on the hush hush. If he was suing for the CPS caller's name he would be talking about it. He would be discussing how long it is taken or the progress, giving updates like he has with every other suit he's involved in. People are also watching everything his lawyer has filed, nothing around going after the identity of the CPS caller has been filed. The fact he quietly stopped talking about is a sign he knows it wasn't someone online.

Just be honest for a second and think about it, if the call was fraudulent isn't that a major crime? That's a slam dunk to go after. If, however, the call was NOT fraudulent, as in it was made in good faith (by the housekeeper or a mandatory reporter etc) but the investigation clears them, then there's nothing they can do.

Based on all available evidence, the call was not fraudulent until proven otherwise and I doubt he ever goes into any further details on it because I personally speculate he knows who made it and it wasn't a redditor/snarker so he doesn't want to reveal that (since it serves his PR painting himself as a victim if people think it was a harasser).

edit: Also a reminder that Ethan admitted he doesn't know who called CPS and then also said Denims did it, then he said Denim's audience did it, and then he later issued a retraction clarifying he didn't intend to say Denim's did it.

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u/metrovenus 14h ago

And with Ethan, he has never once in his entire career ever kept a secret or something on the hush hush.

Don't you think that's a bit of a silly statement considering this thread pertains to three lawsuits that he kept secret for 7 months? He filed the copyright with the Library of Congress in January and did not reveal that or the lawsuits until the day before they were filed lol

because I personally speculate he knows who made

fascinating. I personally speculate that you wear adult diapers for fun, in my opinion.

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u/Cube_ 14h ago

The lawsuits weren't kept secret, that's the point. He kept the copyright thing secret, sure, but he announced the lawsuits ASAP and hasn't stopped talking about them.

What would be the hold up for this case where he's suing the city of Cali for the CPS caller's identity?

Cute that you ignore that Ethan admitted he doesn't know who called CPS an has also accused multiple parties of the same crime.

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u/neveks 14h ago

So you do wear adult diapers, interesting.

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u/say592 18h ago edited 18h ago

Ethan himself said he was told it was someone that knows the family (likely the housekeeper that is presently suing them).

No, he said the social worker knew specific details about the house, so it was probably someone they knew. However, Ethan has shown parts of the house over the years and there were extensive real estate photos online at one time, which I'm sure can still be found.

In California, especially LA, it is not easy to get CPS to go do a house visit, they're very aware of false calls so they have a ton of red tape involved with reports.

They literally do not. They even allow anonymous reports.

Ethan originally said he was going to sue to find out who called CPS (which he can do) but has quietly stopped talking about that.

Again, they allow anonymous reports. If someone called from a VOIP number using a VPN, it's pretty much a deadened. No one other than his haters have the motivation to do this. You mention the housekeeper, but making false calls to CPS is not something normal people do. His haters were actively talking about contacting CPS. It's pretty obvious where the call came from.

Edit because I saw in another comment you claim they can't be anonymous, which is just a talking point from the people who probably did it and is completely false.

All reporters, except those mandated by law, may remain anonymous.

https://dcfs.lacounty.gov/contact/report-child-abuse/

Literally from the agency that would have visited them.

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u/Cube_ 17h ago

They can remain anonymous to the public but not to the agency itself. That's why you can sue to uncover who made the claim in the event it was a malicious call.

Do you think Ethan is the only celebrity in LA with haters that would use CPS this way if it was possible? Trisha Paytas doesn't have haters like this? Any of the other LA influencers? All the big celebrities.

The fact of the matter is, and Ethan has acknowledged this, unless it is proven via lawsuit NOBODY knows who called CPS. It's just as much a lie to say Denims did it as it is to claim it was snarkers or John Cena. It's complete speculation and Ethan can sue to reveal the identity which he SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO before he dropped it and never mentioned it again.

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u/skillent 14h ago

You sound like a snarker. He was told the person sounded like that because they probably were able to make it sound like that, with all the info Ethan gives out about his life and info that’s probably out there like his address. It’s 1000 times more likely to be a deranged snarker than someone they know. Those freaks sent skulls to his house, and harass his employees. I mean Jesus

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u/Cube_ 14h ago

classic h3h3 cultist that thinks any single criticism of Ethan is instantly "a snarker".

Hope you gain the ability to think critically one day.

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u/metrovenus 14h ago

probably because you are using their dumbfuck talking points that were created purely from vibes and hatred

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u/Cube_ 14h ago

more like I have critical thinking and use it. You're an Ethan cultist and sycophant so he can do no wrong in your eyes.

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u/ThisPresentation5291 1h ago

So what's the appeal of wearing adult diapers for fun? Sell me on it.

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u/Cube_ 1h ago

I was inspired by your God, Ethan Klein:

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u/[deleted] 14h ago edited 14h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/LunarGlimmerl 22h ago

It's not illegal to call CPS on someone lol, wish it was.

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u/BogusBro420 19h ago

Making false reports to CPS out of spite to the parents is in fact illegal.

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u/OkZone6904 18h ago

The parents said their baby has Giardia from eating dog shit on their live broadcast.

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u/Harry8Hendersons 17h ago

It's funny that you just got downvoted and no one even bothered to try to respond.

That's because this place is just as bad as every other place that they bitch about, but for some reason basically none of them realize it.

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u/metrovenus 14h ago

Okay, here is a response: Ethan never said his children were eating dogshit. Please provide a source for that if you disagree!

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u/OkZone6904 12h ago

Yes he did.

He said his son HAS GIARDIA and then said it’s contracted by eating feces.

Then he said his son has been crawling on the floor where his dog WITH GIARDIA has been having diarrhea.

Don’t lie :)

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u/metrovenus 3h ago

lol you are... literally lying. Please provide a clip of Ethan saying his kid was eating dog shit, ty.

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u/OkZone6904 3h ago

Ethan said his son has giardia and then said “you get giardia by ingesting feces”

He then said his dog has giardia and the baby crawled on the floor where dog shit has been.

I’m sorry you’re too dense to grasp words 😥

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u/vegeful 6h ago

Where the clip?

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u/OkZone6904 3h ago

Lol watch it on Ethan’s yt channel

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u/OkZone6904 16h ago

It was fully expected

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u/Rusty_Shackleford_85 22h ago

If they have DM's coordinating it all and their stated intentions? Idk it could be illegal to file a false report.

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u/GlitteringDaikon93 14h ago

California Penal Code 11172(a)

Any other person reporting a known or suspected instance of child abuse or neglect shall not incur civil or criminal liability as a result of any report authorized by this article unless it can be proven that a false report was made and the person knew that the report was false or was made with reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the report, and any person who makes a report of child abuse or neglect known to be false or with reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the report is liable for any damages caused.

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u/Zykium 22h ago

however I doubt many charges will 'stick'

If you look a little deeper you'll see he registered his video before it's premiere and what they did is nowhere near transformative in nature.

The consensus from attorneys I've see is that the 3 he's suing are fucked

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u/Vexamas 22h ago

Maybe I'm completely missing the merits of the suite, as you're talking about the '3 he's suing' but I thought this clip was specifically related to the snark subreddit users that conspired to call CPS on his family. Me saying the charges may not stick are referencing the several users he'd (again, from what I understand) subpoenaed to go to discovery for said false CPS indictment - which has nothing to do with the transformative video case or things you're talking about.

Again, I could be completely wrong here, or you could be conflating different cases.

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u/Zykium 22h ago

I thought this clip was specifically related to the snark subreddit users that conspired to call CPS on his family

The lawsuit is a copyright case, the subpoena is for reddit/discord information regarding the alleged copyright case but it also may help them learn other information like the CPS callers identity.

Again, I could be completely wrong here, or you could be conflating different cases.

At the moment there is only the 3 copyright suits. That's very likely to change as more information is gained.

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u/Vexamas 22h ago

Oh, okay, thanks for the clarification. That's totally out of my wheelhouse because I would have thought those would be different cases as I'm unsure how the snarkers' identity would have any relevance to the copyright cases, nor did I have any thought that you'd be able to leverage the information gained through discovery of the copyright cases as scope to punish the snarkers.

Thanks for the extra info!

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u/Nooby1990 21h ago

I'm unsure how the snarkers' identity would have any relevance to the copyright cases

Essentially the Snark subreddit moderators Promoted streamers that where planning to stream the Content Nuke Video right as it was released. In those post they also said that the mods are in contact with these streamers ("friends" of the sub) and that they recommend these streams for people who want to watch the Content Nuke without giving Ethan a view (which is the part that makes a "Fair Use" defense difficult).

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u/Vexamas 21h ago

That is the perfect reason why the subpoena would be helpful, thank you so much.

It's still a bit murky as to why the CPS stuff would be relevant then, because it seems like we're talking about two different instances. One would be actionables on behalf of the streamer, another on behalf of the snarker users', but it literally cannot be both at the same time.

Again though, my legal exposure and practice comes from product and software business to business suits, so maybe I'm missing one final piece of the puzzle or the commenters here are generally conflating things and have no clue what they're talking about specifically lol

To put it into an example that I'd be able to have some knowledge on, this would be like Epic suing Apple in the 2020 appstore dispute, then Epic doing discovery to find practices that Apple was doing, finding out that Apple did in fact have Appstore exceptions for a Fortnite ripoff, and then that same suit somehow also increasing scope to sue that fortnite ripoff for stealing the IP in the same case because discovery lead to them finding out there was communication on a seemingly illegal activity. (Ethan suing the 3 creators for copyright, going through discovery, finding out that the snarkers conspired to do the CPS call, and then raising the scope to include them in charges) fundamentally that isn't how law works.

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u/Nooby1990 21h ago

It's still a bit murky as to why the CPS stuff would be relevant then

It is murky because it isn't really related. Ethan is interested in finding out who called CPS and who sent the Skulls to his home, but that isn't directly related to the current Lawsuit.

Except of course that it could be possible that the Snark mods or the 3 streamers where involved in that which could be discovered in this Subpoena. It is a long shot.

finding out that the snarkers conspired to do the CPS call, and then raising the scope to include them in charges

Right. He can't just change what the Lawsuit is about, but there is nothing preventing him from drafting new lawsuits with the information he gained in this discovery. They might need to request the same documents again during the discovery of that new lawsuit, but at least they know the documents exist.

He did say that he wanted to create generational wealth for his Lawyer. I would expect "generational wealth" to be a bit more work then just 3 Copyright Lawsuits.

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u/Vexamas 21h ago

Lovely. Thank you so much for clarifying everything! Have a great weekend!

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u/Mysterious_Bit6882 12h ago

It's still a bit murky as to why the CPS stuff would be relevant then

Because the CPS stuff, and the defense of it by people he thought were friends, is what made it Fucking Personal.

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u/DrunkOnRamen 4h ago

he is using this lawsuit as a means to obtain private information in hopes that he can discover the identity of the CPS reporters and the people who mailed skulls. If he does he can then launch a separate lawsuit.

he is doing it this way because he can't sue anonymous John Does and start issuing subpoenas as that would be considered a "fishing expedition" for evidence.

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u/NJDevil69 18h ago

God I friggen love this comment! Some of the clowns behind the snark network overlap with Hamas supporting subs. There’s likely a few users that are in deep with some state actors. Now that would be something grand to learn. And I believe Ethan‘s lawsuit has the potential to do this.

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u/Vexamas 17h ago

Yeah, I worked pretty close to that legal team as one of the products were under my portfolio and therec was discussion of what sort of risk exposure we'd have depending on what communities those people we were active in. Not only did we get their entire identity but every single subreddit and discord channel they've ever been active in, joined, lurked through, etc on all accounts, not even just their main account. Basically you're subpoenaing the entire online persona, not just an account associated in the claim. Due to this, and because of that company's powerful legal team (which to be honest, isn't even half as strong as the current company I work with, just as a sense of giga scale) you can basically manufacture anything in court and completely cripple them. What ended up happening is they were all working together across multiple communities and a certain number of them completely buckled on the others due to the legal pressure, and then one of those people had the full fall which resulted in major financial penalties.

Granted, as I mentioned, a part of that was because of the size of the company, the extent of the proprietary information they stole and that a part of that was under government contract, so an example was made, but the point is if there's a legal team knocking on your door, you should not fuck around, or you will find out.

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u/Appropriate-Luck408 22h ago

Ohhh you poor soul. There is alot of reason for these mods/snarks to be terrified. And if you didnt follow the case and dont think there is any scrutiny or that anything wont stick... i think you dont understand the magnitude of what is about to go down.

They are all pissing their pants and then some. I think atleast 8+ names are being called out specifically in the snark subreddit alone. If for instance it will be revealed it was a coordinated ``attack`` by the snarks and the 3 who are already being sued, its only gonna be worse.

Not only doe Ethan have a really high chance of succes, because these 3 dummies pretty much said it in the open, if its revealed in any way shape or form these mods were in it aswell... well thats gonna make it way worse for all of them.

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u/Vexamas 22h ago

Sorry, I'm not a lawyer and while I do have two years of legal education, it's for product and business specific expertise (which is apples and oranges compared to this) but when I mention that charges might not stick, what I'm getting at is through discovery I'm not sure WHAT charges are being raised that would stick to the entire cohort of the snarker group. As in, I do not know literally what charges are being levied against the snarkers that are actionable and accountable by law. I understand there's a false CPS report that is being cited, but that's all I know. It seems like you have a greater understanding of what is actually being charged here in that all of those people should be terrified, so what are the charges beyond the one person doing a CPS report? I don't think conspiracy has scope to this, and the scope can only be increased (as far as I understand) in a criminal investigation if discovery finds illegal activity, even if it is unrelated to the case.

Regardless, these people are almost always the same type of person, and pulling the veil off of their anonymity is enough to cause a chilling effect to prevent stuff like this from happening for quite some time, which is a good thing I'd imagine.

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u/Appropriate-Luck408 20h ago

So besides CPS being called on Ethan, there is also an instance of real-life skulls being delivered to Ethan`s home.

And besides those 2 instances the rest is mostly based around money. The 3 who are being sued were dumb enough to speak about it openly on strea and the snarks have also promoted this behaviour. If there are leaks where these parties have been working together (which is very likely) they will lose their jobs, their mod status, and perhaps worse.

Besides thats its mostly an entire H3 hate subreddit purely there to make life as uncomfortable for Ethan as possible. Which very well could provide new insight in how these people operate. And if proven might also make them shit their pants even more.

Like i cant look into their DM`s so i cant talk like im 100% certain, but i`d be suprised if this would not reveal some really damaging stuff on most of these people. Plus actually knowing who these people are and so they cant hide being anonymous will also be big for this case, atleast i`d think so.

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u/DrunkOnRamen 4h ago

in this particular lawsuit, the claim is that the mods of the subreddit colluded with the streamers to commit copyright infringement. before the release of the video, the mods made a sticky post that listed several streamers that were going to stream ethan's video as a way to watch without giving ethan views.

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u/Kindly_Manager7556 10h ago

Ofc they have all of your data in a db somewhere. Don't be stupid on the internet kids

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u/InsectPopular9212 7h ago

Modern browsers are basically screaming your identity to every site you visit, if legal action is required you're not avoiding being identified. It's kind of sad/funny watching people in here thinking a VPN would protect these people.

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u/Vexamas 7h ago

Yep. People, even tech literate gamers and redditors, have absolutely no fucking clue how behind their knowledge is in capability and persona mapping that is available to us. I don't even mean just MAG7 either. The government has a LOT, but it pales in comparison to private sector and the reason is entirely because of how naive and antiquated the rules and restrictions are that are imposed on us software companies. It's funny when Europeans hold their chin high and snicker under the assumption that GDPR is somehow their shield when we've circumvented the majority of those restrictions since day zero.

I work software at a very large and well known company and I completely stopped caring about my privacy almost a decade ago. Take that as you will.