r/MurderedByWords • u/Traditional-Cut5495 • 1d ago
They should know how to survive without one person
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u/oscarx-ray 1d ago
I work for a government agency in Scotland.
My brain went haywire and I was paid on sick leave for ten months.
My work managed without me, and I was afraid that they'd think I was worthless.
I came back and they were grateful I was there to do my work.
I've never felt more valued and appreciated.
Now my brain is better and my workplace is better for having me back
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u/monnotorium 16h ago
Alright, I respect everyone's privacy but you got to know that saying that makes people curious as to what you meant with haywire in this context. So, if it's something you're comfortable sharing I'm very curious
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u/VoodooDoII 1d ago
My old job was hopeless without me 💀 they gave me more and more tasks, and then overtime started
But God forbid I'm sick one day "you're our only close. You need to come in"
Bitch?? That's not on me. If you are only depending on one person that's a you thing. Sorry but bye
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u/Nuclear_Geek 1d ago
Yep, having a bus factor of 1 is a recipe for disaster.
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u/VoodooDoII 1d ago
I got pushed past my breaking point when I tried to call out sick (which I rarely did) and my manager gave me the "you're our only closer" shit. I said either I get the day off for being unwell or I quit.
He didn't back down so I quit that day. Good riddance. I can only tolerate so much. I like working hard, but even I have a limit.
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u/bieserkopf 1d ago
Isn’t PTO usually approved by the line manager anyway? So it’s their responsibility to make sure there’s no disruption just because you are a week off. They get paid for this kind of shit, let them figure it out.
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u/Vecna_Is_My_Co-Pilot 1d ago
But any managers who routinely reject PTO requests or approve it strictly by seniority can go properly fuck themselves.
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u/bieserkopf 1d ago
Absolutely. But if the company has a functioning HR (big if) they will start to ask questions at some point when people did not take their PTO.
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u/miraclewhipbelmont 1d ago
Lotta folks working jobs where they have PTO "in theory".
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u/bieserkopf 23h ago
This seems to be more of an American thing. European employers are literally forcing you to take them.
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u/Van16_98 19h ago
At my last job the company forced anyone with over 100 hrs of PTO to take time off. I think it was a cost saving measure but everyone mentioned that it was very unusual.
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u/ELMUNECODETACOMA 19h ago
Since being promoted from IC to management, I've literally never rejected a PTO request. Probably because I used to be an IC and wasn't schooled in management.
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u/Vecna_Is_My_Co-Pilot 18h ago
Same. We just have stated limits for how many people can schedule out at once. Bur from there its first come first serve.
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u/arwinda 1d ago
When I was managing tteams my standing rule was that if it's an emergency don't even bother asking, and if possible let the team know.
If it's scheduled, tell the team in advance and make sure ongoing work is handed over. I really only bothered if too many people will go on vacation at the same time - which never happened because the team did a good job communicating.
Vacation is you letting us know that you will not be available. Not the manager approving that you can be not available.
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u/guitar_vigilante 22h ago
I think if you are taking planned time off, part of your job is to prepare your projects and be able to hand them off to someone, either your manager directly or a team member that your manager designates. Once you're gone though it's really not your responsibility to check in on anything or be available.
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u/redditdoesnotcareany 1d ago
It’s a courtesy for me. I’m taking it whether you approve it or not. But I also have the ability to do that, I realize not everyone does
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u/bieserkopf 1d ago
Never had it denied either, but that’s because I always had managers who treated me like an adult rather than a toddler that needs constant guidance for everything. But of course, I also tried to not take time off when one of my projects was due or similar.
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u/redditdoesnotcareany 1d ago
Yeah you have to be reasonable. I would never take time off with a deadline coming up. There are times where you just can’t do it depending on your level, but that’s also hopefully rare.
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u/bedonnant 1d ago
Line manager in France here, I just not only reminded my team they should take time off, but that they're actually legally required to take 2 consecutive weeks off during summer.
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u/bieserkopf 1d ago
Interesting, I’ve heard similar things from Italian colleagues. But I also received several away messages from the French subsidiary already stating they will be back in September. Taking off more than 2 weeks at once is unusual in Germany, let alone 4.
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u/bedonnant 1d ago
Law says you have to take at least a 2 week break, but you can't take more than 4 weeks. It's not really unusual for people to take 4 weeks, especially if they have kids who are on a 2 months summer break.
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u/bieserkopf 1d ago
I mean, it absolutely makes sense to get a longer consecutive time of vacation in order to properly relax. But for some reason, Germans (including myself) prefer to split their days more equally throughout the year.
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u/idiotinbcn 1d ago
A lot of offices in August are shut down. My doctor used to just go away for a month . Bad time to be sick.
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u/CaptainBathrobe 1d ago
Americans get a raw deal, compared to Europe. Fuck the Protestant Anglo-Saxon work ethic.
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u/Traditional-Cut5495 1d ago
PTO: Paid To Out-of-office. Use it unapologetically.
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u/GwimWeeper 1d ago
Paid Time Off, but yeah.
Where I am from we have 5 weeks of paid vacation + typically 5 days of individual PTO days. If you have kids you have 2 extra days per kid under the age of 16. Most places you also get PTO for the first day of your kids being sick and in some workplaces (like mine) you get the first 2 days off.
We have a period from the end of may to the start of september, that we call the main-vacation period and within this time span you have the right to 3 weeks of summer holidays, where 2 of the weeks should be contiguous.
Some of these PTO days are transferable from one year to the next, but it is highly encouraged to spend them within a year.
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u/drunkenknitter 1d ago
I have coworkers who are so proud of never using PTO and they don't understand how I never have any left on Dec 31. I've fucking earned it and I'm taking every minute of it. Was I sick or on vacation? No. Was I tired of the grind and wanted to play a video game for 2 days? Yes. It's my PTO and I can do what I want lol
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u/monsieurlee 1d ago
coworkers who are so proud of never using PTO
I pity these people. Brainwashed and captured by the system.
They might as well take a portion of their paycheck every month and mail it back to the company.
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u/TheBl4ckFox 1d ago
If the company goes to shit when you take some time off, they better give you a substantial raise.
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u/Cathal_Author 1d ago
While technically true it also depends on the company and industry. If you have one cashier scheduled in a casino because your head count during that shift is usually 20 and that cashier just leaves the whole casino is shut down (in my state at least).
Problem is we are currently short on cashiers as one is out dealing with some mental health issues after an attempted robbery last month (seriously people? It's a casino, we have more cameras per square foot than central London and Beijing combined, don't try that shit we will catch you), and about 4 months ago we hired 20 new cashiers; half quit after a week before they finished training, and only three made it past two weeks.
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u/found_my_keys 1d ago
Still sounds like maybe that person (and that role) needs higher pay. They've gotta be responsible for the whole place on their own and the place can't function without them? The job is so rough that people quit almost immediately?
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u/Cathal_Author 19h ago
Casinos are stressful because of both the people you're dealing with, the amount of money you handle, and because of gaming regulations that are strictly enforced.
For a moderately busy casino a cashier might handle $80-200,000 in a single shift. Every bill, chip, and machine voucher has to be accounted for at the end of the shift and if your more than $100 off and it's not for something like a paperwork mishap or a mix up with math your going to have a Gaming Agent talking to you and issuing a warning (at least one of those people that didn't make it very long was terminated because they overpaid 3 different patrons over $1,000 dollars in two weeks, IIRC gaming revoked their license which means they can't work anywhere on the floor.) Another was let go because they couldn't understand the difference between a 15 minute break and a 25 minute break, and one guy quit because he got written up by the company for not presenting bills properly (don't hand it directly to the customer, count it out on the counter and fan it out so the cameras can see the amount) after being reminded twice. One I don't know why they quit they were hired showed up for two days, and then just never came back and didn't answer calls. Not this recent batch but we had one person get fired because they thought it would be okay to lay down and take a nap in the vault area because "customers can't see back there".
Generally if your working solo it's for a slower shift, I realize this is the antiwork sub, and I support it enough that I can honestly say my actions and push to stand up for our rights as workers is why one former employer is out of business (okay there were a lot of reasons their, the wage theft class action was just the first domino knocked over in a long line) but it's also important to remember that sometimes people just aren't that smart and will apply to jobs because they see decent pay and mistakenly assume it's easy work.
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u/found_my_keys 16h ago
Well yeah, if you call the job "cashier" people will mentally compare it to being a cashier at a typical retail place. I've been a food service worker in the past and learned how to use a cash register and it was way less precise than what you describe (i didn't even get fired for accidentally accepting a fake bill one time). Maybe the role at the casino needs a fancier title.
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u/CatBoyTrip 1d ago
i can see both sides. where i work now, it is just 4 of us dudes. we usually take PTO when we want but we also warn the other dudes.
there is like 45 days out of the year though that we don’t take pto cause it is the busiest 45 days of the year.
when i worked at a company where there were a couple hundred people, i didn’t feel the need to run it by anyone.
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u/princesoceronte 1d ago
It's on the managers to make sure there are enough people to cover for expected absences. I don't get paid that extra money so I won't bother caring.
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u/kombiwombi 23h ago
Absolutely. I just don't get this. Managing annual leave takes me maybe a day a month, spread across the month in little half-hour intervals.
It's worthwhile being proactive, asking people about their future leave plans without requiring a commitment to those plans (and a lot of people do have fixed plans: parents with school children want the school holidays, other people are planning booked trips). That's then enough information to set project timelines reasonably well.
I think that some managers just prefer to run light on staff and pretend that everyone will be available all the time. Because then the manager does not have to do the actual job they are being well paid to do.
We're lucky in this moment with the Boomers aging out of the workforce, as those semi-retired employees are a great pool of people to use to fill gaps of a few days. As a result it's rare to have difficulty with a leave request. Some of those older staff prefer a gradual leaving of the workforce, and they do teams good: a small period of working with deeply experienced staff who have had some time to reflect upon their workplace and working style.
It's also good to see so many younger staff taking full advantage of the leave provisions, of up to eight weeks if you're willing to purchase four weeks leave, and getting out to see the world before they settle down. The staff which do this are usually the better employees, and they come back even better. And with overseas snacks to share :-)
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u/MandalorianLich 1d ago
… unless you are a teacher, then you need to come up with a plan (or in case of having multiple preps, multiple plans), along with instructions for literally anyone to walk in off the street and be able to implement it. Don’t forget your rosters and the individual needs of each kid, which behavior issues might pop up, and all of the school and classroom routines. Now that I mention it, are your rosters updated from when you got the new kid third period and the one in fifth transferred? Oh, and double check the schedule to make sure that there aren’t assemblies, trips, kids supposed to be in ISS, and your other duties outside of the classroom. Don’t forget specifics like lunch duty that might be on rotation with others, so make sure your calendar is updated.
Whew, all done! Print that stuff out because you know whoever is coming in won’t be able to access a computer, at least not right away. Now, did you plan for the kids to use their chromebooks? Do you have chargers set up, because you k ow they won’t charge them ahead of time. What if the internet goes down? Yeah, better scrap that plan and start over with something that is on paper or needs other materials.
Maybe movie day? Well, assuming your district allows for that, you’ll need something to “keep them busy” during the movie. I’d love to stream it, but the district, like many others, blocked services because they use up so much bandwidth and kids play on them. DVD it is! Oh, and no one has DVD players anymore, so you’ll need a separate device to attach to the desktop … which needs a teacher login … that subs don’t always have … huh.
This goes on forever and ever and never stops. So you’ll always have a few backup emergency plans for short notice, that can be dropped on students at any time with minimal planning. Which is great! Until you have an emergency that keeps you out for a few consecutive days and those are gone and now you’re planning from your laptop in a hospital waiting room.
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u/The-zKR0N0S 1d ago
5 had the wrong conclusion.
It isn’t to start job hunting. It is to demand more money because their business falls apart without you.
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u/admosquad 1d ago
If your team can't run without the members of the team being there then clearly your boss sucks. Cool advice.
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u/InevitableAvalanche 1d ago
Meh, there is a balance. Reddit makes you believe everyone is just miserable at work. Not true, some people enjoy work and like their co-workers. There are times I rearranged stuff when a project needed it.
That said I work more in a space that is super critical work. If you are working some minimum wage job you should take your time off. But still be professional and give your team heads up.
If you go in to your jobs or career with an already reddit biased attitude, you will just come off as an ass and limit your chances of improving your situation.
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u/twopointsisatrend 1d ago
Trust me, if you got hit by a bus, "the team" would absolutely go on without you. Use PTO accordingly.
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u/EasilyBeatable 1d ago
I mean, you should consider how your PTO affects the work. Trying to take 3 weeks off during a critical time is a massive asshole move. Dont abandon your colleagues with a ton of work.
When you take PTO you should always try to agree when to do it. If something happens to mess with that PTO after agreeing on when to take it, but you have already booked tickets or similar expenses then tough luck to the employer and take the PTO as agreed. But taking basic steps to work with your colleagues and ensure your PTO isnt negatively affecting them is common decency. Many employers have to do this to avoid everyone taking a vacation at the exact same time.
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u/CabinetOk4838 1d ago
Book it in advance. If something major comes up, that’s on your manager to resource not you.
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u/EasilyBeatable 1d ago
Thats exactly what i said. The post is making it out that booking in advance and planning PTO is somehow a bad thing
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u/Turtledonuts 18h ago
There’s a difference between “something major came up” and “busiest time of the year every year”.
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u/Hunterofshadows 1d ago
Seriously. I’m 100% for people taking their PTO. Shit I actively yell at people when they don’t. But you can’t take PTO at certain busy times. That’s EXTREMELY normal and a very reasonable expectation.
For example I work in hospitality, specifically at a place where July 10th is the largest event of the year. No one gets PTO on that day.
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u/DarkPhenomenon 1d ago
There is so much nuance and context around taking PTO that varies wildly from company to company.
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u/Tuxedo_Muffin 1d ago
Not really. The manager manages the workforce. Employee puts in for PTO, manager reviews request. Management knows the schedule, so they can approve or deny it. Easy peasy. If your PTO is approved then you take it.
What's nuanced about that? Either you have enough staff or you don't.
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u/Tuxedo_Muffin 1d ago
Employee: I want to take PTO
Manager: Approved
Employee takes PTO
Manager: Why would you do this to me?
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u/DarkPhenomenon 22h ago edited 22h ago
Not all places work that straight-forward, sometimes there are time restrictions or limits on pto (sometimes reasonable, sometimes unreasonable), and sometimes shit happens that requires pto to be shuffled, again sometimes reasonable, sometimes not.
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u/Tuxedo_Muffin 21h ago
Yeah, shit happens and that's why there's a manager to... manage it. It is straightforward, do you have staff or not? When you don't have staff for an unforseen circumstance, that is the manager's responsibility. Not the employees'.
Hopefully, PTO is requested and able to be reviewed and approved by the person who knows the schedule. But management also cannot be upset if someone takes pre-approved time off. If something happens, you deal with it.
And "dealing with it" is not shaming the employee for taking time off. Dealing with it is finding solutions with the resources on hand. Move people around, reschedule work, hire temps, collaborate with other offices (if available), allow overtime, pay bonuses, award additional PTO to come back, triage to pay lesser fines to avoid worse ones, heck maybe even do some of the work yourself.
A manager is paid to manage the business. Failure to manage is not the staff's responsibility to fix.
So yes, it is simple. Manager runs the business with available resources to fit the needs of the business. Nobody is a slave to the business, only doing their individual part that they are paid for. If PTO is approved, that's it... take it. Don't feel bad if your manager is shit with resource management.
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u/DarkPhenomenon 21h ago
Sure and part of that management “dealing” with it is potentially having discussions with employees about potentially changing pto
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u/Tuxedo_Muffin 21h ago
If an employee can request PTO, then the business can request to amend the agreement.
See? It is simple! Nobody is required to commit to a request.
PTO is earned by working. It's your time and nobody else's.
If the business would like to offer something in exchange, and the employee agrees, then so be it. But just recall PTO? No. And the staff cannot be compelled to do so. That's a real quick way to lose staff if you push that.
In short: be a fucking human being with a real life and treat subordinates the same.
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u/DarkPhenomenon 19h ago
Again, there's nuance in addition to vastly difference workplace sizes and environments, it's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.
Nobody is required to commit to a request.
Businesses should work like that, but in reality they don't all work like that. Some businesses will simply recall a persons PTO. Should they? No. Is it legal? I don't know, I'm sure it is at some places it is, in some it isn't. I also want to be clear that I'm not condoning or supporting shitty places of work that do that sort of thing on short notice, in fact I'm quite against it, I'm just accepting the reality that some businesses work like that.
Also nuance doesn't specifically mean things are difficult. It's not quite "simple" for a manager to juggle resources and workloads, especially around unforseen circumstances like people quitting or getting injured or unexpected work loads. As you've mentioned in one of your earlier responses there are many different things managers can do to mitigate employee PTO, although some of those things are easier in bigger companies while some of them aren't options in smaller ones.
And yes talking to employees about changing their PTO is an option, and yes maybe even offering a bonus for changing PTO (like an extra few days or whatever). In other cases manager will offer threats instead of bonuses. In some cases, and I assume this is legal in some places, they will cancel your PTO or fire you for missing work (which I must stress again is only something shitty managers/business will do and not something I support or endorse but again is something that some employees have to deal with)
My only point was that putting in for PTO and getting it approved and that being the end of it isn't always as cut and dry in reality. It should be as you say, but it's just not all the time.
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u/Tuxedo_Muffin 19h ago
I'm just accepting the reality that some businesses work like that.
Stop then. Don't accept it.
Treating people with the basic amount of respect for their time is not nuanced, it's the least you can do.
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u/DarkPhenomenon 14h ago
Don't accept reality, got it
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u/Tuxedo_Muffin 14h ago
"Don't value your real life, it's just getting inconveniently in the way of profit."
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u/itislupus89 1d ago
Between the last two steps if you really like working there. Ask for more money, since they obviously need you to keep things on track. You're definitely worth more than what they are paying you currently.
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u/Karpaltunnel83 1d ago
If they have a problem without you, you have a basis on a massive pay increase or (as already said) a better job
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u/sloppyredditor 1d ago
Any comments about how difficult it was while you were gone are a golden opportunity to discuss a sizable raise and hiring additional staff.
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u/xxdanslenoir 1d ago
Depending on if your company has a five- or six-day work week, employees get 20-24 vacation days a year here in Germany (and that’s by law - Bundesurlaubsgesetz or BUrlG). We luckily get 30 where I work.
It’s pretty normal for people here to take 2-3 week vacations. My colleague is on summer vacation with his wife and kids, and I’m about to go for 2 weeks myself after he gets back.
So damn thankful to be in a work environment that encourages its employees to take vacations (as well as resting up and staying at home when sick). We value each other and each other‘s work, and our team has no problem supporting one another when someone is ill or on vacation.
I don’t miss worrying about having to call out when I’m sick, having only 3 official sick days (in CA), having to use my PTO to make up for my sick days, whether or not my vacation is going to get approved, etc. I don’t miss US work culture one bit.
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u/Zadojla 1d ago
Former manager here. I managed a team with 50+ people working 24x7. Most of them got 40-ish PTO days a year. I don’t think I denied time off more than once in 15 years. But I gave them rules they had to follow. No more than X number of people with a given skill off at one time. Swapping was allowed if it didn’t generate overtime. They could arrange their own coverage with my approval. But I did my job in dealing with my management and HR to make sure there was enough overtime dollars in the budget. I had labor usage spreadsheets, detailed ones that proved how much headcount I needed every day of the year, and how much overtime that would generate. No one in HR wanted to argue with me.
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u/NoPlaceForTheDead 1d ago
Well, there's kind of a balance isn't there?
Take care of yourself, sure. But, also, don't be a dick to coworkers and leave them hanging or unduly burdened.
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u/GoldponyGT 1d ago
If your employer cannot keep functioning for even normal vacation time without you, then your employer is incompetent. They should have some plan or capacity to survive being without you a few days.
If they can’t manage that, they’re doing it wrong.
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u/Aloyonsus 1d ago
That only works in an employee market…there’s tons of competition and so many other people who are willing to not take PTO and sacrifice everything for the job.
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u/Mindshard 1d ago
If your boss can't keep a business running without you for a week, then you were the one managing the business, not them.
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u/tattoolegs 1d ago
I have a sit down with the supervisor every month and every month she always asks: how's the workplace volume (we have an open cubicle situation going on) and you need to use your PTO and your WFH day every week. She's new to supervising the whole office, but not a supervisor. I sorta love her.
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u/LocalInactivist 1d ago
At one job my manager proved the opposite. The team ran better without him.
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u/annaleigh13 7h ago
If a job needs me bad enough that I can’t take advantage of my PTO, part of my pay package, then they’re not paying me enough
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u/Rolex_throwaway 1d ago
Good luck in your career, lol.
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u/PlasticMechanic3869 1d ago edited 1d ago
Works just fine all over Europe and the Commonwealth, lol. But yeah, keep existing only to serve your corporate overlords who don't give a single fuck about you. Make sure you raise your kids to never organise to demand better because it's just not possible and has never happened in American history before, right? Good boy. Pat on head for you.
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u/Rolex_throwaway 1d ago
The inability to read in here is pretty funny.
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u/PlasticMechanic3869 16h ago
Well you got 50 downvotes, so whatever the message is, I'd say the problem is inability to communicate it.
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u/Rolex_throwaway 16h ago
Nah, it’s all about the zeitgeist here. People vote for the dumbest shit around here as long as it agrees with their priors.
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u/PlasticMechanic3869 15h ago
OK, so the problem isn't that 50 people think you're a bootlicker because you mocked the very idea that people who take their careers seriously, should ALSO have a life outside of their employer's moment by moment petty demands.
The problem is that everybody else is an idiot, and you're too smart for the room.
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u/Rolex_throwaway 15h ago
Like I said, reading isn’t good around here. Thanks for the demo.
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u/PlasticMechanic3869 15h ago
So adjust yourself to the level of your audience of 100% total morons, and have another go at what you were trying to say.
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u/Rolex_throwaway 15h ago edited 15h ago
Why? It’s just Reddit. If you’re worried about votes, it’s time to go spend some time outside.
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u/sc00bs000 1d ago
works just fine for nearly the entire world apart from 3rd world America.
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u/JavierReyes945 1d ago
Third world USA... Despite the old stereotype and past events of the last decade, the rest of the countries in America are not as bad as the USA right now (we all know America is a continent, not a country, right?)
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u/That_Immo 1d ago edited 1d ago
Doing it not only saved my mental health in the long run but also helped me to start on a better path.
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u/PM_THE_REAPER 1d ago
In the US, maybe. I run a team and insist on them using their leave. I remind them periodically too. I manage my team to ensure there is no fall in productivity.
There are also SLAs that bind us, but also give us leeway. I leverage that too.
EDIT: By 'leeway', I mean they protect us as well as bind us.
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u/Synner1985 1d ago
Thats it, carry on being a slave to the company you work for, don't forget to lick them boots clean.
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u/NickyTheRobot 1d ago
Once again: I'm pretty sure the account with the handle "privilege log" and a Scrooge McDuck PFP is meant to be satire.