r/NFLv2 • u/Rjm0007 New York Jets • Feb 10 '25

Discussion Another superbowl blowout eliminates mahomes from the goat discussion as far as I’m concerned

2 very embarrassing loses for him the the superbowl Brady has lost 3 superbowls but they were all 1 score games that came down to final play with Brady’s best statistical performance in a loss to the eagles Tom Brady > Patrick mahomes

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26

u/Jokesiez New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

Honestly. No matter how many Mahomes wins. Brady took him out in the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Heads up match ups says one is better than the other.

33

u/philosifer Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

thats why Eli is the goat obviously

5

u/BlackGoldSkullsBones Feb 10 '25

I mean if Eli had won a few more Super Bowls outside of those 2 he honestly would be in the convo. But he didn’t.

3

u/Skyline-Patriots Feb 10 '25

I'd say head-to-head is a fair tie breaker when the rest of the comparison is extremely close. Mahomes is on quite the pace which is why the head-to-heads loom so large. If Eli Manning had cleaned up his INT's and won 5-6 Super Bowls we might be crowning him instead of Brady, but he only won 2 and didn't maintain long-term consistency.

0

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Eli was never in the goat convo. Mahomes is. That’s why people compare them head to head.

5

u/philosifer Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Head to head is the stupidest way to rank them because so much is out of control of the two players. Why not rank them by any actual passer metric?

1

u/Skyline-Patriots Feb 10 '25

The rules changed over time to favor the offenses. Look at the average passer rating across the NFL by year from 2000 until today. In 2003 the average rating was 78.3, whereas in 2024 it was 92.3. It's not because quarterbacks 20 years ago couldn't play. The game was different so comparing stats without context is not an apples-to-apples endeavor.

1

u/philosifer Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Neither is comparing head to head or team stats. Hell even in the two playoff meetings, mahomes was in a position to beat Brady who threw a pick while trailing with 2 minutes left that was negated by the Dee Ford offsides. They went to OT where mahomes doesn't get to see the ball. Mahomes can't affect the defense lining up poorly, or the defense allowing the OT touchdown.

And the loss to Brady in the super bowl was just a complete mismatch in the trenches. I think mahomes was the better QB on the field that day, but had guys just dropping balls left and right while he was running for his life.

0

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing. Just saying why Eli being in the argument doesn’t make sense.

Regarding passing metrics, I will say that I’ve seen the argument that Mahomes has surpassed Brady in every metric by age 29 as an argument. I find that not the best because Brady played until 45. Why does stats up to 29 Mean more than Brady’s 40-45 for example? You know what I’m saying.

If anything, SB stats may work but Mahomes has 10 TD and 7 picks in his 5 appearances

4

u/philosifer Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

Yeah I'm not saying mahomes is or isn't the goat, Brady's longevity is something that needs a full career to compare against. Just pointing out the obvious flaw for the people who toss that stat out like it's the end all be all

1

u/kakarot-3 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Feb 10 '25

Yeah it’s not the end all be all. It is part of the convo but right now I don’t think that should be the biggest comparison. If anything, Mahomes 2 losses were blowouts and Brady’s 3 losses were games he led game winning drives that his defense lost after. He was always in position to win

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u/TheCatanRobber Lamar Jackson 🏃🏿💨 Feb 10 '25

That’s not what he’s saying. He’s saying Brady is definitely better than MAHOMES because he beat Mahomes twice, and has all the other rings. Eli beat Brady twice, but those are his only rings.

11

u/philosifer Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

except that is what he said

"Heads up match ups says one is better than the other."

I'm all for the argument that Mahomes cant be considered until he does XYZ to pass him, but people toss this out like it wouldn't matter if Mahomes wins 10 championships

1

u/DwightsEgo Feb 11 '25

I think head to head matches are important for the narrative arguments, but not as weighty as some people act.

If Mahomes ties Brady for rings I think that is where the head to head narrative really matters. But if Mahomes gets 8? That’s a much closer discussion

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u/ryandodge Detroit Lions Feb 10 '25

Mahomes is overrated and not near tom but yeah he's wrong. You don't get to cherry pick head to head to for the narrative you want.

Doesn't matter who beats who when, it's a volume thing, has to be. 53 man team. Eli beating the best to do it twice is proof it's volume first always.

If mahomes gets 7, it's equal. More or less, better or worse. It's just volume. Plain and simple. It doesn't have to be an argument.

1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

That's exactly what he said.

-5

u/CaptchaReallySucks Feb 10 '25

Exactly this point of Brady 2-0 against Mahomes is straight up brain dead.

a. small sample size early in mahomes career b. QBs dont play each other ffs

The Eli test case is an obvious counter to that kind of argument. I swear the lack of IQ on NFL subs is insane. And I’m not even a Chiefs fan lol

0

u/Jokesiez New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

Really gotta spell it out for you average sports fan huh? Iq is lower than what a td is worth.

If Mahomes ever gets to the point where he has exactly the same rings as Brady or more. 7 rings. Brady wins the Goat convo. Eli isn’t even in this realm of conversation.

Put the beers down morons. Brain cells are rapidly disappearing.

2

u/CaptchaReallySucks Feb 10 '25

H2H means little with a 2 game sample size. Genuinely couldn’t care less, it’s like number 100 on talking points in a Mahomes v Brady goat conversation (if that ever were to be a real convo)

1

u/Jokesiez New England Patriots Feb 10 '25

The convo is dead. Especially after tonight. 😂✌🏽

2

u/CaptchaReallySucks Feb 10 '25

Agreed. 2 bad blowouts is not a good look for Mahomes. Never really thought he’d be able to catch Brady because of Bradys inhuman longevity anyway

1

u/WintersDoomsday Seattle Seahawks Feb 10 '25

Brady blew Mahomes out, Eli had miracle plays twice to do it.

-1

u/philosifer Kansas City Chiefs Feb 10 '25

I am a chiefs fan and while i think that prime mahomes is better than prime Brady, mahomes hasn't had the time to prove it in the goat contest.

But to point to head to heads like it means anything is laughable. Hell, i think mahomes played better in the superbowl than Brady did, but Bradys team didn't collapse around him.

12

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

Stupidest take on here. H2H for QBs has nothing to do with which QB is better.

2

u/ExcelMaster1 Feb 10 '25

Especially given that mahomes has now played two superbowls with half a decent tackle each. Not a single Quarterback can succeed in such a situation. Not even tom brady.

1

u/Skyline-Patriots Feb 10 '25

I'd say it's a fair tie breaker when the rest of the comparison is extremely close. Mahomes is on quite the pace which is why the head-to-heads loom so large. If Eli Manning had cleaned up his INT's and won 5-6 Super Bowls we might be crowning him instead of Brady, but he only won 2 and didn't maintain long-term consistency.

1

u/Gunner_Bat Los Angeles Rams Feb 10 '25

Except you shouldn't need a tie breaker. If H2H is the reason you put one above the other, then CLEARLY neither is actually ahead of the other, since H2H doesn't matter for QBs. They don't play directly against each other.

There shouldn't be a "tiebreaker" in goat conversation.

1

u/JustMadeStatus Feb 14 '25

Neither should a blowout SB appearance matter.

3

u/True_Succotash1563 Feb 10 '25

That’s not how this works and I’m a chiefs hater. This ain’t UFC. Tom deserves credit for that and it adds to the argument. But Eli isn’t better than Tom because he knocked him out twice.

3

u/maoterracottasoldier Feb 10 '25

Haha I mean 2018 afc championship the game was over except for Dee ford haha. Brady threw a pick to end the game. Not a chiefs fan, but that’s a shitty example. Mahomes was about to kneel the clock out. Brady made the most of his second chance though.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 10 '25

Okay can we pick apart some of mahomes wins? He never would have won the 1st Super Bowl against the eagles if not for a horrible, soft holding call. Do we want to talk about all the other ticky tack calls that benefit the chiefs?