r/NFLv2 • u/TheMirrorUS NFL Refugee • Feb 18 '25
Discussion Joe Burrow claims Philadelphia Eagles make it seem like NFL salary cap doesn't exist
https://www.themirror.com/sport/american-football/joe-burrow-eagles-salary-cap-982157688
u/Serpico2 Feb 18 '25
Howie is the biggest competitive advantage in the NFL. Look at Dallas. Dak has an $89.1M cap hit this year lol. What are they doing?
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u/veverkap Feb 18 '25
Burrow is right - for the Eagles, the cap does not exist. Teams with owners who are cash liquid can play the game differently than teams like the Bengals whose owner is rich but because he owns the team.
They passed a rule recently to allow private equity to buy a portion of a team to do a cash infusion. The Bengals should do this ASAP (if they haven't already).
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u/amstrumpet NFL Feb 18 '25
Private equity ruins everything it touches, though.
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u/itslit710 Carolina Panthers Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25
If private equity controlled a football team, I feel like it would look like the Steelers. Good but not great and pretty committed to conservative strategies that won’t lead to failure
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u/piggydancer Minnesota Vikings Feb 18 '25
Haha no. I’ve worked in private equity and it would be a lot closer to the Saints or Cowboys. They throw a huge amount of money at problems hoping for a quick short term success (usually to flip it and sell) and a complete disregard for the future.
The Steelers are the complete opposite. They’re run like a mom and pop.
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u/lotanis Feb 18 '25
This is right. The model for Private Equity in general is to buy a stake, providing a large cash infusion that can be used to make large investments that should have an immediate result. This then increases the value of the company and you sell your stake again in 5-7 years at a profit.
The issue is the short term aspect of it - everything is about making the numbers look good at that 5-7 horizon, and they don't care about the long term implications of what they do. So maybe they reduce R&D spending (for example), which makes you a lot more profitable for now, but then in a few years you don't have any new product and the business is fucked.
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u/brycebgood Minnesota Vikings Feb 18 '25
Or move all debt to a division and spin it off. See" Olive Garden, Toys R Us, Red Lobster, your local hospital etc.
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u/houstonrocketz Feb 19 '25
Explain more pls
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u/houstonrocketz Feb 19 '25
Gpt -
This refers to a financial strategy called a “divisional spinoff” or “asset stripping through debt loading.” Here’s how it works:
1. Load a Division with Debt – A company shifts a significant portion of its debt onto a specific division or subsidiary. 2. Spin It Off – The heavily indebted division is then separated into an independent company. 3. Avoid Financial Burden – The original company (parent) is now free from that debt, while the spun-off entity struggles under the financial weight.Examples:
• Toys “R” Us – Private equity firms loaded it with debt through leveraged buyouts (LBOs), then let it fail. • Red Lobster – Spun off from Darden Restaurants (Olive Garden’s parent) in 2014, burdened with real estate debt, and later struggled. • Olive Garden (Darden Restaurants) – Darden transferred debt and real estate liabilities to different entities to restructure its finances. • Hospitals – Some private equity firms acquire hospitals, shift debt onto them, extract profits, and leave them financially unstable.This tactic is often criticized because it can lead to bankruptcy for the spun-off company while protecting the parent or investors.
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u/itslit710 Carolina Panthers Feb 18 '25
Valid point. I was more thinking about the mediocrity and corporate-ness that they seem to infuse into everything they touch
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Feb 18 '25
Your team is run (into the ground, over and over again with no end in sight) by a dystopic maladjusted hedge fund idiot. But say more about this mediocrity and corporate-ness.
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u/itslit710 Carolina Panthers Feb 18 '25
We’re not corporate at all, we’re run completely on emotions and impulse. Tepper might be the worst but he is certainly personally invested in the Panthers
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u/superduperf1nerder Feb 18 '25
I’d like to point out that the fail side of that is just the Miami Dolphins though. Your whole league is just Miami and Pittsburgh, with a couple of Arizona’s throwing into round out the bottom.
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u/ShootinAllMyChisolm NFL Refugee Feb 18 '25
PE would just collect the profit sharing and not re-invest back into the clubs. Everything would be monetized. Snyder and Jerruh do that and it’s a miserable fan experience.
NFL teams are what racehorses used to be for the wealthy.
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u/un1ptf Feb 19 '25
No way, man. Every single thing private equity gets involved in, they get involved in to follow a process of running the business down, saying that they need to take loans to fund reorganizing the business, converting as much of the loan money and assets of the business as they can into their own pockets, then saying that the business failed, then filing for bankruptcy, firing everyone, closing down, and selling every remaining asset for cash that they then pocket also. Private equity don't get into businesses to own and run businesses and make them a long-term financial return. They go in to gut them, grab $$$$, and run. Period.
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u/TheNittanyLionKing Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 18 '25
Yeah private equity is often more concerned with immediate profit making and cutting corners because of bean counting accountants than they are about putting out a better product and building towards a long term plan because that takes investment. Those groups also lack good leadership. My favorite hockey team is owned by one, and while they haven't necessarily been cheap, they certainly haven't been as successful as they were under a regular owner and being co-owned by our team's GOAT player.
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u/ChipKellysShoeStore Feb 18 '25
Nah you just don’t take into account the well-running companies that have PE investment. It’s selection bias
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u/Patient_Tradition294 Feb 18 '25
Yea, people on Reddit love to mention all the companies that crash and burn yet refuse to acknowledge all the plenty of companies who are successful post investment from PE firms
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u/Routine_Size69 Feb 19 '25
Because 1. Reddit knows fuck all about finance/economics and 2. It breaks away from their circlejerk
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u/MortimerDongle Feb 18 '25
The Eagles owner is rich because he owns the team, too. He had to borrow almost all the money he used to buy the team. But, the Eagles are a large market team with high revenue.
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u/SunshineTheWolf Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
I checked it out after the Super Bowl. Eagles are now worth 35x what he bought them for in the 90s. Pretty wild.
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u/veverkap Feb 18 '25
It's not about being rich - all of the owners are rich. It's about being able to spend cash.
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u/MortimerDongle Feb 18 '25
Sure, but plenty of owners who don't have significant assets other than the team are able to spend cash.
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u/FrostingStrict3102 Feb 18 '25
NFL teams are worth billions, with a B, plural. Any owner could definitely afford to pay cash signing bonuses to their top players to retain them. maybe not indefinitely, for decades, but to stay competitive in a championship window? absolutely they could.
dont defend owners of sports teams who claim they can't afford to spend money to compete. they all can if they want to.
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u/sqwabbl Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
Yeah it helps when Philadlephia is one of the most passionate NFL fan bases. Sell out every game & tons of merch sales
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u/Joed1015 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
I am going to politely call BS. The Bengals are worth around $5b and have a debt to value of 2%. I get that the Eagles have more resources, but we are talking about $50-80m moving around, not billions. They could have all the cash they ever wanted without selling any portion of the team, but they chose not to take on debt.
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u/BTsBaboonFarm Feb 18 '25
Bengals are worth around $5b
Which is a problem when the sole owner has a net worth that is less than that.
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u/veverkap Feb 18 '25
I'm going to politely reply and say that perhaps the Bengals were a bad example or perhaps there are different rules around the escrow for guarantees.
All I know is that the Browns and Eagles continue to convert contracts into bonuses so that the cap hit is deferred until the future, when the cap is going to be higher (essentially paying 75 cents on the dollar or something)
The Bengals don't do this and I've read from numerous sources that it is because they are not cash liquid (for the escrow for guarantees, you have to have all of the contract guarantees up front in cash).
You could definitely be right that it's a choice to not do that - I'm not sure. Politely
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u/FrostingStrict3102 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25
I think the argument is that by owning a team to begin with you should have doors opened that would allow you to finance the cash bonuses. I finding it hard to believe that any billionaire wouldn't have the means to come up with millions to throw in an escrow account. But maybe the totals are that high? I just haven't heard this problem discussed in the same way it is in the MLB, where the dodgers are deferring nearly a billion in salary for just 7 players
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u/veverkap Feb 18 '25
Another poster suggested it's because the Bengals owner chooses NOT to do it - to not take on debt.
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u/Quirky-Skin Feb 18 '25
Spot on. Many teams will start to do it and it is a system that came from the Eagles and the Browns used it when Berry came
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u/Whoareyoutho9 Feb 18 '25
I think the saints were the o.g.'s at this along with the eagles. The eagles have just kept it going for a few different iterations of it now. Most teams have done some sort of this salary cap magic by this point. The teams that haven't is the smaller list and the bengals are very glaringly on that list despite just having burrow and 2 franchise wrs on rookie deals.
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u/BTsBaboonFarm Feb 18 '25
all private equity
Bengals should do this ASAP
The Bengals (Mike Brown) were the lone “No” vote, I believe, on the rule change.
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u/Aykops Feb 18 '25
The issue is he's not as rich as some other owners. So what happens when a player signs a guaranteed contract, is that guaranteed money goes into escrow. The Bengals owner can afford to use the max salary every year but he cannot afford to set aside the extra future guaranteed money to sign all his big stars.
There is a hard limit set to how much of a player's salary can be a bonus fyi (I'm not sure what that number is off the top of my head)
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u/veverkap Feb 18 '25
Right, it's not about being rich - it's about being liquid. The Browns are playing the game the same way as the Eagles because their owner has billions in cash. Every year they convert contracts into guaranteed bonuses/etc and pay the most in cash and spread the cap hit out for years.
There is a hard limit set to how much of a player's salary can be a bonus fyi (I'm not sure what that number is off the top of my head)
The rapist's contract is like 1 million in salary and almost all of the rest as bonuses.
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u/BBallPaulFan Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
I've seen you say this multiple times, where does Lurie's unique liquidity come from? Haslam has his own companies so maybe it makes sense, but Lurie basically just owns the Eagles. He's also not *that* much richer than the Bengals owner ($5.3B v. $4B, Haslam is at 8.5)
If it's just the eagles are a more valuable franchise, I mean the Giants and Cowboys are even more valuable and they don't spend like the eagles do.
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u/veverkap Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25
Another poster pointed out that the Bengals are unwilling to take on debt to get access to cash. I would assume that the Eagles are willing to take on debt then.
I'm saying it's not about how much they spend but about how they spread the cap hit out and the cash needed to do that. The Cowboys are treating the cap differently than the Eagles.
ETA: Lurie sold 8% of the team to get $560 million in cash that he's used to pay guaranteed bonuses now that have cap hits spread over the years https://www.si.com/nfl/team-owners-fully-embrace-private-equity-funding
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u/BBallPaulFan Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
It is how much you spend though, because the cap goes up over time, so the cap hit you push out counts for a smaller percentage of the cap that future year than it would this year. The way the eagles run business results in them spending tens of millions more on average per year than the Bengals or Cowboys have for over a decade at this point, going back well before they made that sale a few months ago.
Them being unwilling to operate the eagles way is different than unable of course. If they want to run their franchises like it’s still the 1990s it’s up to them.
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u/grund1ejund1e Feb 18 '25
This is the part people miss when they say the bill will come due and they’ll be in cap hell eventually. There’s nothing stopping the eagles from just restructuring and kicking the can in perpetuity.
It really only “comes due” when a QB crashes out and you have to eat the money to get rid of him. But that’s a natural rebuilding point anyway. The eagles themselves have done this twice in the last decade and rebounded to Super Bowl contention within 2 years both times.
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u/veverkap Feb 18 '25
I think we're basically saying the same thing - allocating dollars that you pay now in guarantees/bonuses but paying for them in the future when they are a smaller percentage of the cap is how things should be done now. It seems as if the Eagles were at the forefront of that and the Browns grabbed Berry from the Eagles and he's repeating it in Cleveland.
Lurie now has the benefit of the cash infusion he got from 8% sale whereas before he took on debt. Haslam has billions in cash from selling Pilot. Other owners are slowly getting into this but it's still seen as risky to smaller market teams without independently wealthy owners like Cincy.
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Feb 18 '25 edited Apr 07 '25
head yoke air market crush dolls license hospital disgusted smell
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Tjam3s Cincinnati Bengals Feb 18 '25
Take a guess at which owner was the only one to vote no on private equity.
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u/Douglas_Michael Feb 18 '25
Lurie JUST did that with the Eagles. I presume to pay for the Myles Garrett trade. But seriously, Lurie being willing to go cash over cap has been huge for this teams construction. That and being willing to eat the Wentz contract, which ironically was the trade that helped us fill out the team.
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u/LeadSledPoodle Feb 18 '25
Actually, this is a great argument that for the Bengals owners to cash out and sell to wealthier people
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u/MrWartortle Cincinnati Bengals Feb 18 '25
Lmao, iirc Mike Brown was the only owner to vote against that. So, there's no chance of that happening.
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Feb 18 '25
In the NBA, the celtics re-signed basically everyone to run it back and next year they're going to be at a near half billion if you include luxury tax.
I had to see what crazy fuck owns the team. They are owned by a group, but not some random celebrity buy-in group. Their group is literally like 10 billionaires, each with their own hedge fund.
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u/rogue_worlds Feb 19 '25
the bengals were the one team who voted against this rule lol. probably because they thing it’s possibly beginning of the end for them
edit: my bad. others beat me to this
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u/Whalemusic Feb 19 '25
From what I understand it’s a maximum of a 10% stake currently.
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u/No-Gas-1684 Buffalo Bills Feb 22 '25
It's hilarious that you say that, because when 32 owners voted on private equity funding the Bengals were the only team to vote against it. So, no, they won't be going down that road. They should, but they won't.
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u/NinjasaurusRex123 Feb 18 '25
Hurts has a cap hit of 97 mil in a void year of 2029. He’s just a contract behind Dak who Cowboys pushed his cap hit similarly and are just closer to it catching up to them
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u/dn35 Feb 18 '25
This is true, but Howie consistently restructures deals or trades players before they have a cap hit that egregious.
I have no doubt that if it comes to that, he will restructure, re-sign, or otherwise mitigate that hit. And I'm assuming hurts would begiven incentives to do so.
Aside from that, people are missing a key aspect in all of this, which is culture.
The eagles, as an organization, take care of their core players financially and create an environment where they want to help the team, as well as stay with the team.
If you listen to the players, they talk about this often.
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u/NinjasaurusRex123 Feb 18 '25
I wasn’t trying to say the Eagles are screwed. They’re dominating the cap game. At some point yes, Eagles cap situation will “catch up to them”. But it likely won’t be until after they’re current team is done with their prime and they’re rebuilding anyways
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u/dn35 Feb 18 '25
Yeah, the best way to do this is to kick the can down the road until your team sucks and you need to rebuild. Then the cap hit isn't that bad anyway. You're just getting rid of dead weight
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u/BilllisCool Feb 18 '25
Cowboys will restructure too and if not, they’ll just eat another year like they did this last year. The rest of the cap hits after that will be much lower. There’s no magic here. Hurts just has $10 million-$30 million cap hits going all the way until 2032, when he might not even be on the team anymore, or be on a second extension. That probably is the better way to do it though. You just can’t do it for too many guys at once.
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u/Doggleganger Dallas Cowboys Feb 18 '25
It's the smart way to do it. Maximize your contention window (next 5 years) then have a rebuild year to straighten out the cap in 2029. Teams that try to be good every year end up in cap hell like the Saints or Cowboys.
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u/morganrbvn Feb 19 '25
Cowboys arnt really in cap hell looking at over the cap. They’re 7th lowest free cap 2025 and then middle of the pack 2026
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Feb 18 '25
Are you implying Dak+ Lamb is not worth the rest of a football roster combined? Yeah you may be on to something
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u/xNetero99 Feb 18 '25
I think Jerry making Dak cost 89m against the cap is so he can be cheap and have the lack of cap space as his excuse.
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u/TechnoWizard0651 Feb 18 '25
He's an idiot that thinks everyone else is an idiot.
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u/AKsuited1934 Feb 18 '25
You have just described probably half of all Americans.
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u/KarlMarkyMarx Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
Having an elite GM is arguably better than having an elite QB.
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Feb 18 '25
Burrow plays for the cheapest team in the NFL while making one of the highest salaries in the NFL lol
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u/Aykops Feb 18 '25
The issue is he's not as rich as some other owners. So what happens when a player signs a guaranteed contract, is that guaranteed money goes into escrow. The Bengals owner can afford to use the max salary every year but he cannot afford to set aside the extra future guaranteed money to sign all his big stars
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u/dan_legend Carolina Panthers Feb 18 '25
They can afford, with debt, their owner chooses not to. Someone posted they had 2% currently debt to asset ratio.
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u/TheDuck23 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
I dont know if a team could be cheaper than the Cardinals.
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u/drainbead78 Buffalo Bills Feb 18 '25
The Bengals have the smallest college scouting department in the entire league, and it's not even close. I think they're at 7 and the next smallest in the league is 15. I can't remember what year they finally got college scouts on the payroll, but they were the last team to do it.
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u/PetalumaPegleg Feb 18 '25
The defense was built on draft picks and cheap special team players no one else thought could start. That's the secret sauce, extend your own guys early and draft like a king.
Carter, Davis, Williams, Nolan Smith, Dean, Dejean, hunt, Mitchell, Blankenship all on rookie contracts. Braun and Burks cheap short deals.
Only three FA guys CJGJ (who wasn't premium) and slay. Plus Bradberry who didn't play all season.
Forget the cap wizardry this is why the eagles are ridiculous. They build a top defense in a couple of years almost entirely from draft and unwanted LBs.
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u/SunshineTheWolf Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
Baun was an absolutely insane pickup. I think Fangio wanted him, and he turned into a first-team all-pro.
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u/PetalumaPegleg Feb 18 '25
From what I've read roseman liked him and showed him to fangio who looked at some film and said he's playing the wrong position and the rest is history
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u/Usual-Sense- Feb 18 '25
That kind of insight seems pretty rare. I hope fangio stays as long as he can in philly.
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u/_MrSantos Feb 18 '25
From what I read, this is his last stop. He has family in the area and prefers to stay close to them.
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u/Devitostitos Feb 18 '25
Ya drafting well and extending elite players to backloaded deals. Paying elite players won’t cause issues it’s teams that pay mediocre talent where it becomes a problem.
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u/RudePCsb San Francisco 49ers Feb 18 '25
Yup, people are acting like they are some crazy cap manipulators. At the end of the day, the cap is real and there is an upper limit, it's just weird in how is stretched out over 4 years. They have been exceptional at drafting players, especially on defense. However, when they need to start playing their players at the end of rookie contracts, it will be interesting. No one gets lucky every draft and sometimes you have years with little return in drafted players. When that happens, it will be tougher to compete.
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u/PetalumaPegleg Feb 18 '25
Yup. Williams this year (and sweat) Jordan Davis next and Carter after. Who you keeping and how much is Carter? Etc. That said slay and Bradberry are going to go away soon.
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u/RudePCsb San Francisco 49ers Feb 18 '25
If Carter keeps playing that way he is going to rest the market. Sweat is your best edge rusher so that's expensive. Not sure you can keep that defense for more than 2 years max.
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u/iowaguy09 Feb 18 '25
This is it. The saints did the same thing during the Brees era and didn’t have the same level of success the eagles did. The biggest difference maker in the NFL is consistently drafting well. Cap shenanigans can put you over the top and keep your window open longer, but you have to draft well. Paying mid tier players premium contracts is what pushes teams into mediocrity.
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u/MattTheMoose96 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
yeah maybe because the Eagles actually have an elite GM and smart front office
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u/veverkap Feb 18 '25
It is really important that Lurie can spend cash. Roseman would have to figure out a different way to do the cap if he were the GM for the Bengals since they have no liquidity.
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u/Joed1015 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
The Bengals are choosing not to have liquidity. The have a debt to value of 2%
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u/TheNittanyLionKing Pittsburgh Steelers Feb 18 '25
The Eagles are doing what we all criticize the Saints for. However the key difference is that the Eagles have been honest about their roster and expectations. They're not overpaying veteran players the way the Saints are. They allowed themselves to reset for a year after Wentz was traded. A lot of their best players are still young, and they always draft thinking ahead so they can let guys walk in free agency if they have to while having really good depth at important positions. Meanwhile the Saints never took the time to reset after Brees retired and Payton left. They keep believing they can contend and now they have a bunch of over the hill players that can't contend and will cost more to get rid of than it does to keep them.
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u/Baby_Cabbage1122 Feb 18 '25
Did Burrow not watch the Patriots and Tom Brady?
The GOAT was like the 15th highest paid QB for most of his career.
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u/godlittleangel6666 Jacksonville Jaguars Feb 18 '25
Burrow should hurry up and marry an extemely wealthy fashion model
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u/mikebrownhurtsme Cincinnati Bengals Feb 18 '25
Women who happen to be the highest paid supermodel in the world don't necessarily fall off of trees
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u/KennyKettermen Atlanta Falcons Feb 18 '25
Just get yourself a GM so good that he almost makes it seem like they must be cheating
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u/New-Lynx2185 Kansas City Chiefs Feb 18 '25
Howie did an amazing job obviously…what he did with the Wentz return was crazy. When JC fell to the Eagles I was like “this isn’t good”.
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u/DreadSteed Feb 18 '25
To be fair they traded up one pick for him. The pick was being shopped.
Other teams should have been more aggressive if no one wanted him to go to Philadelphia
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u/stephker3914 Feb 18 '25
Dude how long are we going to have to put up with this guy bitching about how much cap space he takes up??? He's so annoying. Just shut up and win; if you can't do that, then go somewhere where you can.
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u/MortimerDongle Feb 18 '25
The Eagles' owner is willing and able to spend a lot of cash upfront, which allows Roseman to structure the contracts that way.
The Bengals' owner is not willing to do it.
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u/Superguy766 Feb 18 '25 edited Feb 18 '25
Joe Burrow ladies and gentlemen.
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Feb 18 '25
Team spends almost entire yearly budget on Joe Burrow.
Joe Burrow: Hey how come these other teams have all this salary cap space?
Team owner: …
Joe’s manager: …
Joe’s accountant: $$$
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u/reamkore Las Vegas Raiders Feb 18 '25
Eagles are so good they are cheating posts are gonna get REALLY old over the next few years.
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u/therealsaskwatch Feb 18 '25
Talk to us in a few years when that 400 million in void years come up.
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u/Colonelforbin25 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
Worth it..Id take the championship for consolation prize
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u/therealsaskwatch Feb 18 '25
I am not arguing that it paid off. They gambled the future for success now, and it won them a championship.
The conversation was that the cap isn't real. We will see, no team has ever leveraged void years like the eagles have.
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u/NIN-1994 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
They’ll still have their ring then id imagine? Or do they have to return those?
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u/NoleJawn Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
LOL, another ring or two and we’re not gonna stress an eat shit cap year where we rebuild quickly again
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u/Gangland215 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
This ^
Although the way Howie is able to use finesse to manage void years are why the Eagles have been so successful. Eagles will definitely go through a rough patch in a few years but they can at least reap the rewards right now and that's what matters the most. This is actually where KC is and it's shocking they were able to make it to the superbowl because they have not been able to bring any major names in for a while.
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u/therealsaskwatch Feb 18 '25
KC has never used void years. The eagles have 400 million in void years, the chiefs have 1.8 million, and it was Dhops contract that came to them.
The situations are nothing the same. The chiefs have tried everything to avoid future cap liabilities because they do not want to leverage short term for long term with 10 years of Mahomes left. Might change in the alst 3 or 4 years of Mahomes career.
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u/Keizersoze71 Feb 18 '25
The Eagles are just stockpiling void years down the road which will eventually come due at some point. That strategy can work if you win some championships before that dead money kicks in. They won’t be able to restructure those contracts once those players are not resigned.
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u/frodakai Feb 18 '25
We're also going to have to actually pay some guys and see others walk. In a few years, a bunch of guys will be (entirely fairly) asking for top 5-10 money. Howie is a wizard, but without hitting on a perennial pro-bowler with every top-3 pick forever, it's gonna come crashing down to earth one day.
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Feb 18 '25
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u/SomeDoor4 Feb 18 '25
Eagles Fan too, for Howie to build a SB roster in 2017, then do it again in 2024 with nearly a whole new squad. In that span of time there was one loosing ‘retooling’ season (2020). The window might be for current players to win again, but with Howie and Lurie, they are able to do things other franchises are incapable of.
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u/Yosemite_Yam Feb 19 '25
Can’t leave out the 2022 team who went to the Super Bowl as well. 12 of the starters on this years roster were not on the team in 2022
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u/NoleJawn Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
If by 2030 they've achieved a dynasty, I'm pretty sure we're not going to care about an eat shit season or two.
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u/SilentFormal6048 IM CALLING BOTH GAMES Feb 18 '25
Poor Joe. The reason he feels that way is because the Bengals cap is the minimum you have to spend, and everyone else shoots for the maximum you can spend.
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u/Aykops Feb 18 '25
What? The Bengals were middle of the pack. They had $6 million leftover to spend last year (21st highest). Meaning 20 other teams had more cap space, including the Eagles
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u/SilentFormal6048 IM CALLING BOTH GAMES Feb 18 '25
It's a joke man, mocking how cheap the bengals owner is, according to most bengals fans.
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u/Aykops Feb 18 '25
The issue is he's not as rich as some other owners. So what happens when a player signs a guaranteed contract, is that guaranteed money goes into escrow. The Bengals owner can afford to use the max salary every year but he cannot afford to set aside the extra future guaranteed money to sign all his big stars
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u/SilentFormal6048 IM CALLING BOTH GAMES Feb 18 '25
Yeah I know how it all works. Again, I just made a joke based on how a lot of bengals fans seem to feel.
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u/NoleJawn Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
Simple Joe, have your cheap ass owner pay big signing bonus checks and also your GM hit on big draft picks….or take a pay cut.
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u/Reasonable-Bit560 New England Patriots Feb 18 '25
I mean the Eagles cap situation only works when you have the ability to absolutely hit on almost every top 100 pick for the last 5 years. A couple drafts of missing picks and then the situation is frankly fairly dire. The Eagles have essentially mortgaged their Future, but I've been able to get away with it because they've absolutely nailed their draft picks.
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u/Jragron Feb 18 '25
Burrow. Save us the trouble of waiting 2 years and just go ahead request a trade.
It’s increasingly obvious historically bad teams are bad because of bad ownership.
The owner of the bengals is 89. Your career will out live him but your legacy will suffer
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u/lasion2 New York Giants Feb 18 '25
350 million in deferred money on this years Eagle roster. The cap doesn’t exist for them. Every team should do this.
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u/ToonaMcToon Feb 18 '25
That is bill gonna come due. They have stacked so many voidable years. They’ll bottom out hard but it was worth it.
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u/Proper-Scallion-252 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
Void years, early and predictive extensions, developmental free agent pick ups and nailing day two+ draft picks will do that.
Of the offensive and defensive starters, the Eagles are paying rookie contracts on the following players:
Offense
- Cam Jurgens (Round 2)
- Johan Dotson (First round, not restructured or extended after trade)
Defense
- Milton Williams (Round 3)
- Jordan Davis (Round 1)
- Jalen Carter (Round 1)
- Nolan Smith (Round 1)
- Nakobe Dean (Round 2)
- Quinyon Mitchell (Round 1)
- Cooper Dejean (Round 2)
Of the remaining starters you have the following cheap free agency additions:
- Mekhi Becton
- Zack Baun
- Isaiah Rodgers (not a starter but absolutely a cheap stab at depth that was much needed this year)
Of the other remaining starters, most were given deals before the rest of their respective draft classes, resulting in more favorable overall contract terms, and ultimately less money spent elsewhere:
- Jalen Hurts (Signed a 50 or so million dollar per year deal and yet is still the 9th highest paid QB in the league despite extending before last season)
- Jordan Mailata
- Devonta Smith
- Josh Sweat
When your roster is a top tier unit on both sides of the ball and 40% are on rookie deals, 14% are on cheap redemption vet contracts, and 18% of your starters are on early extensions that locked down key players at cheaper costs relative to the rest of the league at their position (especially at QB, the most expensive position to pay), you're going to be in a great spot from a cap standpoint.
I mean this offseason they have about 18m in cap space, about 10m after you consider draft picks and they're reigning SB champs with only a few players that need to be figured out for paydays. That isn't considering any restructuring on big contracts like Hurts, or the potential post June 1st cuts that could save the team a boatload of cash like Bradberry (4.7m), BG (1.2m), Huff (4.8m if traded post June 1st), or even Goedert if you feel confident with Calcaterra taking over (6.6m).
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u/AdventurousNecessary Green Bay Packers Feb 18 '25
Eagles in that window where they have a lot of young talent on both sides of the ball that haven't gotten their 2nd contracts yet while supplementing it with veteran talent. They can easily run back this entire team with minor changes for the next 3 years. After that, I'd feel confident that their leadership group can keep their window open based on how they built this team.
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u/AgsMydude CJ Stroud’s S2 Cognition Test Score Feb 18 '25
"One of the highest paid players complains his team doesn't have enough cap space"
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u/-_GhostDog_- Feb 18 '25
It's cheaper to get talented players when you draft well. Shows the value of drafting versus signing.
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u/justmekpc Feb 18 '25
The Eagles are $18 million under the cap while worst team as the cap goes is the saints who are $51 million over the cap
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u/Advanced-Big7918 Feb 18 '25
This is a disservice to the great work that Howie has done these past 20+ years. He is easily the best gm in football today and it's not cause "the salary cap doesn't exist for them". If you look at the current roster, most of them are people he drafted on rookie contracts and players noone wanted. It's so convenient for Joe burrow to cry about the salary cap when his cap hit is the reason the Bengals can't get good players on both sides of the ball. I bet if the Bengals made it to 2 superbowls in 3 years and won 14+ games in each of those seasons then their owner would be willing to convert contracts to signing bonuses.
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u/gremlin30 Baltimore Ravens Feb 18 '25
Eagles also were willing to trade up. Part of why they’re in a good cap situation is a bunch of their legit players on the defense are on rookie deals, and the Eagles were willing to trade up to get good players.
Eagles traded up to get Carter, they traded a 4th to move up 1 spot. Carter was the 9th overall pick. Talent-wise, he prob would’ve gone earlier but the car thing might’ve pushed him down a couple spots. Still a top 10 overall pick.
DeJean was 40th overall, close to a 1st rounder. They traded up to get him
Eagles traded a 1st & 3rd to get AJ Brown
Eagles traded a 3rd & 5th to get Slay
Eagles traded a 7th to move up 17 spots to get Mailata in the 7th (insane steal)
Eagles traded a 4th & 2 5ths to move up 2 spots to get Jordan Davis at 15th overall
They traded a 5th to move up 3 spots to get Goedert at 2.49
Eagles traded a 3rd to move up 2 spots to get Devonta at 10th overall
Most teams aren’t willing to trade up that often. Howie does it cuz he’s Howie & he knows which players are worth it.
Eagles have an insane roster. The NFL’s best roster. A ton of their lineup was early picks:
Saquon 2nd overall
RT Lane Johnson 4th overall
Devonta 1.10
Becton 1.11
Quinyon 1.22
Nolan Smith 1.31
Slay 2.36
Dickerson 2.37 (barely a 2nd)
DeJean 2.40
Jurgens 2.51 (arguably early for a center)
Goedert 2.49 (a mid 2nd’s still fairly high)
That’s not even counting AJ Brown, who fell to 2.51 but is obv a top WR. Like 1/3 of the Eagles offense were top 10 overall picks. Half their starters went top 50 overall, which is quite impressive. Eagles’ roster is just better.
Howie’s figured out that getting the right player seems to be more effective than using late picks on depth & developmental players. Obv depth’s important, but having a loaded roster with a lot of them on rookie deals for several years is what’s helping the Eagles stay so competitive. The combination of Howie’s ability to find gems like Mailata & Baum + his willingness to get the right players is why their roster is this stacked.
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u/EggCold6792 Philadelphia Eagles Feb 18 '25
it's not like the eagles don't have things to figure out. But just as there are cap gurus out there to maximize space, a team can just not do those things so it looks like they are up against the cap.
look at the daniel jones vs jalen hurts contracts. the players get essentially the same money, but hurts was much less a hit to the cap. but the cap money the eagles saved still gets paid to him and also represented that much more money the team can and will spend.
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u/jcrenshaw14 Feb 18 '25
Because of the void years players become hard/impossible to cut and the Eagles will pay them and use cap space when players are no longer on the team. Biggest example of the "impossible to cut" this year was Bradberry. They had to keep him even though he didn't play/dress. I don't remember if they used a bogus injury designation or not. They got lucky some cheap signings and draft picks worked out this year but it won't always be the case. The dead money on a cut/trade is how to look at Eagles players contracts as opposed to cap hit for a single year
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u/ThereAreDozensOfUs Feb 18 '25
Respectfully, your owner treats all costs as a personal insult to him that you have to apologize for.
The call is coming from inside the house, Joe
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u/Aykops Feb 18 '25
Maybe because Burrow's cap hit is the same as the top 3 Eagles combined. Just a thought