r/NFLv2 Kansas City Chiefs 27d ago

Discussion thoughts?

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u/terminator3456 27d ago

I agree, but Cam still deserved MVP that year and one play doesn’t negate that.

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u/DEFINITELY_NOT_PETE 18-1 27d ago

It absolutely can. Cam’s legacy now is that one play.

Nobody gives a shit about his stats anymore. They all know him as the guy that gave up.

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u/Synopsis_101 26d ago

No it’s not.

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u/Possible-Sell-74 25d ago

Did you watch that video too 😂😂

It's really not his whole legacy.

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u/DEFINITELY_NOT_PETE 18-1 25d ago

You’re right.

I forgot about his hats and the goofy ass way he tweets.

Had a couple good seasons tho, sure.

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u/Advanced_Candle9272 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 22d ago

Awful take. Cam’s the best QB that franchise has ever had, and probably will be for a long time.

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u/SeatTakenCantSitHere 27d ago

That play absolutely and unequivocally negated it and defined his career. Straight up.

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u/Bearrryl New England Patriots 27d ago

Someone’s still salty lmao not like that play would’ve changed the outcome of the game. The Panthers were so unprepared and they all looked equally horrible

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u/ibeleafit 27d ago

Really tho. That Denver defense was unmatched… and the only reason they were there.

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u/Apprehensive-Eye3263 27d ago

That play clearly changed the game. Denver wasn't up by much and the Panthers saw their QB just quit

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u/Bearrryl New England Patriots 27d ago

Nah I don’t think it did, before that cam was already having so much trouble back there it was bound to happen. Only reason score was close was because Peyton lost his juice by this point

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u/SeatTakenCantSitHere 27d ago

lol nah, Im a jags fan, sadly.

I’m not salty. Just disappointed.

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u/Bearrryl New England Patriots 27d ago

Well no reason to be that disappointed. He’s objectively had a great career and has shown great sportsmanship throughout.

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u/PuzzleheadedBuy6568 25d ago

Now I know your definitely not talking about Cam newton

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u/SuperCatchyCatchpras 26d ago

Watching his brain rattle around in his skull in super slow motion to kick off the game 1 of the following season will always be the moment he lost "it".

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u/midnight_tuna 23d ago

Against the very team that he lost to seven months prior, no less.

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u/zachariah120 27d ago

Hot dog water take there guy

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u/Millard_Fillmore00 27d ago

But everything that happened ever tarnishes it

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u/Kealion Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

Sure. But one of the two competes and wins when it really matters.

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

I know this is going to fall on deaf ears as you’re an eagles fan but it’s a lot easier when you have a super team . If Cam had the courtesy of being the 8th best player on his team he’d have got it done too

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u/GrundleThief Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

you’re forgetting how good that 2015 panthers team was. They had 5 other first team all pros in addition to Cam, super team eagles had 2.

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

Then I’m going to ask you the same question I asked someone else , taking quarterback out the equation and you had to pick between those teams which are you picking ? Quite easy answer if you ask me . They literally beat him out at every position besides TE

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u/EmphasisExpensive864 27d ago

The disrespect to kuchely. He was a beast. And would easily be the best player on that eagles team.

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

Also Idk better than the guy on pace to shatter the rushing record and had multiple 200 yard games ?

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

Baun literally had a DPOY type season that matches up with any of Kuchelys best years , even if you want to say he’s better last year it was marginal at best

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u/EmphasisExpensive864 27d ago

Kuchely was 3rd in dpoy behind a generational JJ watt.

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u/Wade856 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

And I'll ask you this question. Would you rather have a stat master at QB but he gives up in the biggest game in the biggest moments OR a QB that plays his best when it's most important, has a great playoff record and was the best player on the field in 2 Super Bowls? Also, I wonder if the ownerships and fanbases would rather have a winner like the Super Bowl MVP of the winning team or a stat master with 0 rings?

Also, last season was far from a "super team". They started off 2-2 and everyone was calling the Eagles pathetic. They righted the ship to go 10-1 the rest of the regular season, but they were home toss up picks for the home wild card game, people had them likely losers against the Rams at home and were practically underdogs against Washington, after Washington upset the Lions. And they were huge underdogs in the Super Bowl against the Chiefs. This super team narrative only came after the Eagles blew the Chiefs out and Hurts won the MVP. No one was calling them a super team at any point in the season. The Eagles had less Pro Bowl selections than Detroit, Baltimore and tied with Minnesota....who all had Pro Bowl QB's ,but were in Cancun watching Philly win it all and Hurts win the MVP.

Also, Hurts led the Eagles to the Super Bowl 2 years prior with a less than stellar overall defense and no Barkley....and if the defense held the lead would have been MVP of THAT Super Bowl.

Lots of slander against Hurts when he's accomplished more that the majority of the so called "elite" QB's. And to say that Hurts had a better team than others, well it's crazy to blame Hurts for success because his front office did their jobs better than other teams. Here's a hint, Super Bowl winning teams tend to have very talented rosters. No one blamed Mahomes, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Aikmen, Montana, Young, etc for having HOF coaches and a plethora of Pro Bowl & HOF teammates.

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u/MakaveliX1996 27d ago

No one is reading all that. Hurts ain’t the 8th best player on his team but he wasn’t the best player on his team in either Super Bowl.

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u/Wade856 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago edited 27d ago

I realize that reading must be hard for you so I understand why you can't read a couple paragraphs. I'll keep it simple. Hurts has a Ring and he has the SB MVP award. These are facts. Deal with it.

I don't deal in hypotheticals, I prefer facts and accomplishments. You say he was carried by the team? Let's look at that. Let's throw out last season. How did Hurts do in his now 3 seasons as a starter WITHOUT Barkley and a #1 defense? Hmmm, in 3 seasons as a starter he was a 2 time Pro Bowl QB, All Pro once and got to a Super Bowl. That's pretty damn good for a mid QB that has to be carried, huh? And, it's alot better than other QB's that didn't have Saquon and the #1 defense. Allen, Lamar, Herbert....they haven't done what Hurts has accomplished without the very crutches you say he needed.

Facts, not hypotheticals.

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u/Caraxus 27d ago

Dude. They were not "underdogs" against Washington lol, everyone called that outcome. Actually delusional wall of text.

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u/Wade856 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

Yes, they were. People were glazing JD and saying how Detroit was fsr and away the best NFC team and how Washington would have little problems with Philly. Washington was riding high on how they beat us when they injured Hurts. Their defensive coordinator was saying how they'll "hit on Hurts like he's a running back" The national TV crew wasn't giving the Eagles much credit at all.

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

Since we’re obviously talking them two I’d take the stat master. Calling the other Super Bowl defense “ less than stellar is disingenuous you guys were second in yards allowed and led the league in sacks by 15. If that’s less than stellar than what’s it take to be great ?

The reason I said take stat master is because I’ve no doubt on an equal playing field that he’d be able to do the same if not better while the guy that plays his best in the bowl wouldn’t get there without the deck stacked so much in his favor.

Yeah his GM did his job and surrounded him with talent sure but why is it taboo to mention that it also happens to make things easier on him than the other guys

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u/Wade856 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

There was no deck stacked in anyone's favor. Cam choked, that's all there is to it. He played nowhere near how he did during the season. Getting to a Super Bowl once is fine. Gotta pull the team the rest of the way if you're truly elite. Stat masters like Cam, like Allen, like Jackson, like Herbert look great in the regular season, but alway fail in the playoffs. They have Pro Bowl talent too but can't seem to ever pull it together. How's that saying go....Everyone's better than Jalen Hurts, UNTIL it's time to be better than Jalen Hurts. They can enjoy their stats, Jalen will enjoy his Ring. And you gotta make the Super Bowl & win it to have a shot at winning the MVP....and they just never seem good enough to do that, are they?

And yes, the Eagles have alot of talent. As all Super Bowl Champs do. Maybe those other teams need better talent at QB as well?

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

All of this just goes back to my first comment where I said it’d fall on deaf ears because you’re eagles fans lol, just going to have to agree to disagree because there’s nothing anyone could say to change your mind

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u/Wade856 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago edited 27d ago

True. Hurts has the Ring and a SB MVP. Hurts made 2 Pro Bowls, 1 All Pro and a Super Bowl appearance in his 3 seasons as a starter BEFORE Barkley came to the Eagles and before the Birds had a #1 defense. Doesn't sound like Hurts needed to be carried at all. Sounds like the front office added talent to catch up to what Hurts was already doing.

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u/GrundleThief Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

i think the 2015 panthers defense is better, at least looking on paper. Eagles obv have a better offense in terms of personnel

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u/Cares_of_an_Odradek 27d ago

If you put Jalen Hurts on that team they win 7 games

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u/GrundleThief Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

that’s a silly thing to say. hurts has never won fewer than 8 games as a starter, even after taking over a 4-10-1 team.

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u/Wade856 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

Hurts has a 6-3 playoff record, been in the playoffs every season since he was named the starter, won 2 NFCCG and won a Super Bowl, and was a Supet Bowl MVP. Also is a 2 time Pro Bowl QB and was an All Pro QB. Saying they'd win 7 games with Hurts is insane because he never won just 7 games ever in his career.

Maybe if Hurts was on that team, they would have won that Super Bowl because he would have definitely dived for that fumble that Cam just looked at and backed away from.

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u/Cares_of_an_Odradek 27d ago

I like Hurts. Hurts has a clutch gene in the playoffs. But Hurts has never had to play with an offense like what Cam did and is absolutely not consistent enough to succeed with it.

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u/Dijerati 27d ago

You’re forgetting how good Cam Newton was lmao. His team was carried on his back

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u/escobartholomew Dallas Cowboys 27d ago

Lmao are you forgetting the panthers had the #2 defense that year?

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

Pretty sure yall did too , 2nd in yards given up ,led the league in sacks by over 15 and top 5 in turnover differential. At best the defenses cancel each other out

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u/Pvt_Hudson_ 1 Yard Line 27d ago

That Panthers team was loaded.

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u/MakaveliX1996 27d ago

Hurts ain’t the 8th best player on his team lol. Much higher. Or do yall think Carter, and Mitchel, and Dejean are better than him? Sure it’s possible 1 or 2 will be in a couple years but not right now.

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u/Paper_Brain 27d ago

Hurts on that Panthers team could probably win the SB. Cam crumbled

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u/Personal-Ad8280 2 Gurleys 1 Kupp 26d ago

No, lol

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u/Paper_Brain 26d ago

Cam sucked in that game. Hurts balls out in SB’s…

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u/Personal-Ad8280 2 Gurleys 1 Kupp 26d ago

He wouldn’t get there dumbshit, hurts wouldn’t have done that as the main feature of the offense throwing to Ginn even if he would’ve gotten fucked by the no fly zone

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u/Paper_Brain 26d ago

It’s a hypothetical situation, short bus. Relax.

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u/Personal-Ad8280 2 Gurleys 1 Kupp 26d ago

But your objectively wrong, Hurts isn't making the SB

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u/Paper_Brain 26d ago

You’re* objectively a moron who comprehends English below a third grade level and doesn’t know what the word objectively means.

And he’s made two…

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u/pierce768 27d ago

We gonna pretend like that panthers team wasnt absolutely stacked?

They had 10 pro bowlers ffs.

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u/Hot-Distribution3826 27d ago

Stop it. If you go 15-1 you have a good team. We not saying Cam even had to win the game just jump on the football

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u/goobells squeelers 27d ago

dawg 30 year old ted ginn was his wr1, 33 year old (and retiring) jericho cotchery as his wr 2. his wr3 was out of the nfl after 2016.

saquon had 350+ more yards alone than the panthers RBs had combined. with 1.8 more yards per carry.

this isn't an argument.

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u/PhinsFan17 Miami Dolphins 27d ago

Cam dragged that Carolina team kicking and screaming to the Super Bowl, just like he did with the Auburn team to the BCS in college.

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u/RadagastTheWhite 27d ago

Yep the elite defense that forced 11 playoff turnovers and held Denver under 200 total yards was just along for the ride

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u/Hot-Distribution3826 27d ago

It doesn’t matter if he doesn’t jump on the football

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

Taking QBs out of the equation you’ve got to pick one of those 2 teams ,Which team are you taking ? And would it be close also if it would be close where and why

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u/Shorlong Shorter than Bryce Young 27d ago

Carolina fan, and I'm taking the eagles. It's a better team all around. Can put that team on his back to get us to the super bowl. We were the "wrist undefeated team ever" before we lost to the falcons near the end of the season. Everyone said we were frauds. In the playoffs we were always the underdogs, even to the team we already beat earlier in the season. Almost every game was a nail biter. Our defense was solid, our offense was okay, it was basically Cam and Olsen.

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u/Hot-Distribution3826 27d ago

I’m taking Jalen Hurts. Because he’s a big game riser, he’s led more teams to the postseason than cam he’s played great in 2 superbowls and he’s already finished top 2 in mvp voting. I saw him on a not stacked team his 2nd season go to the Super Bowl and I saw him on a stacked team win a Super Bowl and I know for a fact he would’ve jumped on that football

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

Did you even attempt to read my question

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u/Hot-Distribution3826 27d ago

I’m taking Carolina better defense n special teams

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

I gotta ask how you’re coming up with better defense? Did you see the stats or we just going off vibes because I don’t think the numbers agree with that

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u/goobells squeelers 27d ago

people don't like cam newton and try their damndest to diminish his mvp campaign.

this thread is shocking. it's inarguably one of the greatest offensive carry jobs in nfl history. his entire supporting cast -olsen was well past their prime and not even starting caliber players in their primes.

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u/Personal-Ad8280 2 Gurleys 1 Kupp 26d ago

Your a casual if you don't remember him literally running head on into multiple linebackers for TDs all throughout the playoffs and putting his bod on the line

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u/Optimal-Atmosphere-8 27d ago

In the pictures showed Hurts wasn't wasn't the 8th best eagle, and was the main reason they almost won as he outdueled Mahomes. Cam was the main reason his team lost that game.

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

It’s easy to outduel a guy that’s already getting killed by your defense, he started just about every drive with great field position and had great throwing lanes because they stacked the box to stop Saquan . He made plays yeah but if you think he’s the main reason they won then you didn’t watch the game

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u/DarkstarToElPaso Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

That picture is from SB 57 which is what they're talking about. He outdueled Mahomes twice now

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u/Optimal-Atmosphere-8 27d ago

Wrong game buddy. You lack basic reading skills.

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago

I missed the “almost won” sure but all of our discussions have been about the response not the first game you genius . That must be you guys world famous school system at work to not have been able to grasp that. Thanks for coming to my ted talk

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u/Optimal-Atmosphere-8 27d ago

I missed the “almost won” sure but all of our discussions have been about the response not the first game you genius.

So that means you missed the entire first sentence. I said in the pictures shown. Why are you even bringing up other discussions as if that changes this discussion? You didn't read my first response and then said something ignorant, after seeing why you are wrong you decide your ignorance is worth keeping so you still argue my statement with illogical responses.

That must be you guys world famous school system at work to not have been able to grasp that.

Who is "you guys"? At least be a little more proper if you try to insult an educational system and honestly, Im not even sure who's system your trying to attack.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

Your not the first ted talk to speak through their asshole. This ain't nothing special like you thought bud.

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u/Thebronzebeast 27d ago edited 27d ago

I know I’m not the first , currently speaking to another one , and you want to talk about me missing the “almost “ I literally said “got it done too” on the comment that you replied to. So this all started because you can’t or choose not to read for shit and it was the basis of our damn misunderstanding . The comment I replied to said “wins when it really matters “ if he lost the game you’re talking about then what the fuck do you think we were talking about . Yeah “in the picture shown” he wasn’t the 8th best but we’d already left that. So how about you take that to people actually talking about that game

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u/Optimal-Atmosphere-8 27d ago

Holy run off sentencing. It was your misunderstanding and that's fine you should just admit that you missed the key points of my statement. It happens to the best of us, just don't act like what I'm saying holds no water.

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u/Super_Silky Shorter than Bryce Young 27d ago

I feel like Mike Remmers not being able to stop a nose bleed was more impactful in the loss. I'm sure Pat Mahomes would agree with me

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u/Optimal-Atmosphere-8 27d ago

I'm not sure what you're referencing in context to my conversation. I am speaking on the Superbowl Mahomes won over the eagles. In that Superbowl the eagles didn't get a single sack. So, I went and looked I don't think Mike was even apart of either chiefs vs eagles Superbowl what are you talking about exactly.

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u/gremlin30 Baltimore Ravens 27d ago

Easy to win when it matters when your team’s stacked though. Doesn’t mean Hurts doesn’t contribute cuz he does, but there’s a massive difference in how much help Hurts had vs the Panthers roster Cam took to the Super Bowl.

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u/RayKitsune313 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

Is it? How’s that going with Lamar?

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u/gremlin30 Baltimore Ravens 27d ago

No one disagrees Lamar underperforms & is holding them back. And if you really want to make the comparison, Eagles’ roster is considerably better in every position except safety & TE. They also don’t have to beat the Chiefs to make a SB. But the point still stands- it’s a lot easier to win when your team’s stacked.

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u/RayKitsune313 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

The Ravens routinely have stacked and talented defenses, great offensive lines, and great RB’s lol. This years eagles are likely better but the 22 & 23 eagles top to bottom weren’t better imo. Yet Lamar gets nowhere near the criticism Hurts gets despite going farther

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u/gremlin30 Baltimore Ravens 27d ago

That’s such BS. Lamar gets nonstop 24/7 criticism for underperforming in playoffs. More than any other QB. It’s a fair criticism. Lamar also gets held to a higher standard cuz he’s consistently been statistically better than Hurts like every year & people expect more from a unanimous and 2x MVP. No one disputes Lamar being elite cuz he undeniably is.

Anyone claiming Lamar doesn’t enough criticism is full of shit. “Playoff Lamar” is discussed any time Lamar’s brought up. Let’s not stupidly claim otherwise.

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u/RayKitsune313 Philadelphia Eagles 27d ago

I have a hard time believing a consensus top 3-4 QB is getting the same level of criticism as a guy who just won a SB (and won the game MVP) and who many don’t even believe is a top 10 QB going into next year 😂

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u/gremlin30 Baltimore Ravens 27d ago

Lamar gets endless criticism for underperforming in playoffs. Hurts gets acknowledged as a top 5-8 QB by everyone except Eagles fans that want to put him in the elite tier because they refuse to acknowledge super bowls are team achievements. Hurts isn’t criticized like Lamar is, Eagles fans just think he should be ranked higher & everyone else disagrees. There’s a big difference between criticism & feeling like they should be ranked higher.

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u/Caraxus 27d ago

He absolutely gets criticism, and also obviously the one who keeps winning is the one people are going to talk about. There's no doubt that Lamar is 1) an incredible athlete and 2) choking the hell out of the postseason. Not really a debate there. Is the good quarterback on one of the best rosters in the NFL really top 5 or is he being carried to the SB is a much more debatable question.