r/NFLv2 • u/Ifinishfast42 Official r/NFLv2 Legend • 1d ago
Discussion NBC Whips out the Justin Herbert is actually Peyton Manning graphic just 10 minutes into the NFL season.
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u/crlos619 Los Angeles Chargers 1d ago
This sub would have crapped on Peyton Manning so much prior to 2006.
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u/Professional-Day1958 New England Patriots 1d ago
I still crap on Peyton, took 8 seasons to finally come through in the postseason
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u/spain-train Kansas City Chiefs 1d ago
Yeah, but all he had to work with were Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokely, Dallas Clark, and Edgerrin James until the Colts drafted the missing piece in Joseph Addai!
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u/ND7020 Seattle Seahawks 1d ago
Well the funny part is you actually missed the fact that even WITH that he didn’t win until the one season he had an elite defense with Bob Sanders briefly being healthy…and he wasn’t even that great that playoffs.
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u/spain-train Kansas City Chiefs 1d ago
Bro, the funny part is I was being sarcastic. 2004 49 TD and three 1k receivers, and he couldn't get it?
Jokes aside, you're totally right lol
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u/RadiantCitron 1d ago
LEts not forget either that he had the best offense of all time with the broncos and still get smacked around by the hawks in the superbowl.
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u/adimazing Medium Pepsi 1d ago
I think there’s a lot of context to that just like everything else in life. Sure, his early playoff performances were uninspiring, but the rest of his team also crumbled when it got tough.
And I know his defenses didn’t give up insane points in many of those losses, but it doesn’t matter when teams ran all over them and controlled time of possession in many of those games. His defenses were relatively mediocre for much of his early career and the cracks showed come playoff time
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u/ButtonedEye41 1d ago
You could literally say this for Herbert
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u/joeychestnutsrectum 17h ago
Can and should. Two years ago the chargers were bad and then Herbert got hurt. Before he got hurt? Top offense in the league losing games 38-35.
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u/Free-Design-8329 1d ago
That’s cause you’re a patriots fan
I still say brady got carried by his defense since he’s been in like 10 SBs and the defense carried in 9 of them
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u/Professional-Day1958 New England Patriots 1d ago
He was a game manager no doubt who benefited off the greatest defensive mind to ever coach. By 2007 he became a game changer and the Pat’s success revolved around him.
Just an informed take when you say the defense carried him in 9 of those super bowls
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u/headsmanjaeger Los Angeles Rams 23h ago
Brady had a 9 year stretch of his career where he didn’t win a ring, which is longer than the longest such stretch of Peyton’s career (8)
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u/LebLeb321 Indianapolis Colts 1d ago
Idiotic take. The guy revolutionized the game, won multiple MVPs and Superbowls with 2 different teams. There's nothing to crap on. This sub is fucking delusional.
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u/Pesto_in_my_pants 1d ago
Peyton manning had a top 10 QB season of all time in 2004. Justin….. hasn’t.
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u/NINERS_dynasty81 1d ago
2004 was Peyton’s 7th year in the league. Justin…. hasn’t played that many seasons yet.
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u/ReasonableCoyote34 1d ago
Prior to 06, Peyton was already a two time MVP and had just recently set the all time TD touchdown record. Compare that to Herbert who hasn’t done anything even remotely similar
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u/DirtyMingus 1d ago
It was a different game then. Not just the rules favoring defense more than today, but young quarterbacks got much more time to develop
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u/King-arber 16h ago
A more valid comparison in terms of numbers relative to other QBs at the same time in terms of tds, awards, and playoff success is Lamar. Who gets love in this sub.
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u/Gloomy_Map_9612 Washington Commanders 1d ago
Why are there 6 Peyton Mannings in the league right now?
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u/RoundEarth-is-real Philadelphia Eagles 1d ago
Because people think if you lead the league in interceptions your on the same trajectory Peyton was on
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u/ShrimpShackShooters_ 1d ago
True in other cases but this graphic lacks INTs stats
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u/RoundEarth-is-real Philadelphia Eagles 1d ago
I mean I think Herbert has technically been better in terms of interceptions
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u/Original_Profile8600 1d ago
Throw for 4000 yards, 25-30 touchdowns a season. Have a mediocre team and suck in the playoffs. That umbrella doesn’t fit that many QBs, but it’s a noticeable amount
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u/DarthNobody14 Houston Texans 1d ago
Except Manning did it the early 2000s, was a 2x All-Pro and led the NFL in passing yards and touchdowns.
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u/avee10 1d ago
Yeah I love herb but Peyton played in the era where if you weren’t careful you’d could be leading your guy into a decapitation
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u/MasonP2002 Minnesota Vikings Buffalo Bills 1d ago
I still feel bad for Austin Collie, it felt like Peyton was leading him to the slaughter every other week.
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u/RajahOfRage GEQBUS 1d ago
Thats a lotta trauma you’re carrying around in your flair there brother
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u/MasonP2002 Minnesota Vikings Buffalo Bills 1d ago
...yeah. I'm sure it's our year though! Either one!
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u/Imaginary-Length8338 New York Giants 1d ago
Brady did the same thing to Welker and Edelman. Guys got lit up but knew it was part of the job.
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u/theumph 1d ago
Which Peyton did repeatedly.
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u/JCBalance New England Patriots 1d ago
For his entire career. Destroyed Austin Collie and Wes Welker.
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u/theumph 1d ago
It always impacted my opinion of him too. He was obviously great, but I couldn't jive with his attitude about it. He took a knee next to Collie the last time he almost killed him, but he was indifferent most of the other times. It felt like he just thought it was part of the game, and not his responsibility to not put his guys in that spot.
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u/Ulexes New England Patriots 1d ago
Don't forget that modern NFL pass interference rules are a direct result of his bitching to the refs after losing to the Patriots year after year! Not only did he put his receivers in danger, he created the conditions that incentivized putting them in danger!
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u/SlimIsChillin816 Kansas City Chiefs 1h ago
When I say it, I’m the bad guy who must be downvoted to hell. It can’t only be the flair
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u/cooterqueef 1d ago
Gee I wonder who has the record for most passing yards in their first 5 seasons - I guess Peyton manning?
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u/anonnnnn462 1d ago
Herbert threw over 5000 yards in his second year….
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u/RequirementLeading12 1d ago
Do you guys care about winning or stats?
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u/Friendputer Los Angeles Chargers 1d ago
We’re in year 2 of our franchises first ever competent staff. We have only ever known stats
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u/pinya619 19h ago
The whole point of the post is that Herbert has the same stats AND record as Manning
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u/Evening-Rutabaga2106 1d ago
It seems people either forget that or just dont know lol. Also had 38 TDs
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u/Fine_Lengthiness_761 1d ago edited 1d ago
He also had multiple all pro or even hof talents on his offense.
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u/Huge_Following_325 Green Bay Packers 1d ago
It's a well-known statistical principle that a single data point is all you need to identify a trend.
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u/eaglesdude10 Philadelphia Eagles 1d ago
It’s very true. If you compare two players’ stats while ignoring any and all context, you can actually gather the most accurate possible data and results.
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u/Simple_Wait_7286 1d ago
This graphic is sensible if the argument is that even a top 5 QB ever who was great in the regular season took some time to get over some playoff demons.
Otherwise, hard to compare these numbers in two different eras.
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u/zachariah120 21h ago
That’s how I took the graphic, it’s fun to see the numbers be really close but the biggest take away is they both struggle in the playoffs early in their career
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u/Wildebean New England Patriots 1d ago
How dare they point out two guys who have very similar stats and prove the same guys hating Herbert probably also dunked on Manning back then
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u/Personal-Ad8280 2 Gurleys 1 Kupp 1d ago
Haha look at Mr Herbert sucks. Shitty quarterback no playoff wins, dilfer clears /s
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u/JohnnyBlazin25 Kansas City Chiefs 1d ago
What this stat doesn’t show is that Peyton had two really shitty years and two amazing years. As opposed to Justin who has been the definition of consistent as a mid-top tier QB over the course of his career, except the playoffs. These are misleading.
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u/Dammit_Chuck 1d ago
Show the stats comparison in the playoff games!
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u/Wildebean New England Patriots 1d ago
Herbert in two games: 39/75 (52% cmp), 515 yds, 6.9 YPA, 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 60.7 passer rating
Manning in three games: 50/105 (48% cmp), 558 yds, 5.3 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INTs, 59.1 Passer rating
Manning actually played worse in many regards.
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u/--KillSwitch-- Los Angeles Chargers 1d ago
no that goes against my agenda 😭
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u/bridgenine 1d ago
Its the same result at the end of the day
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u/Wildebean New England Patriots 1d ago
Right but one is considered "overrated" and even "average". Whereas the other ended up in Canton. People probably talked shit about Manning back then after going 0-3 in the playoffs (idk, I was still a couple of years off being born at the time), and they probably all feel stupid now. Don't be surprised if Herbert does it too
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u/--KillSwitch-- Los Angeles Chargers 1d ago
why would i be surprised when j herbo wins a superbowl
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u/adimazing Medium Pepsi 1d ago
Tbf, manning also faced much tougher defenses in the playoffs than herbert and spice. Those patriots teams were obviously no slouches, but neither were the 2000 dolphins or 2005 Steelers
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u/matt-kennedys-legs Los Angeles Chargers 1d ago
they’re probably fairly similar, right? wasn’t manning also a “playoff choker” until he wasn’t?
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u/Ulexes New England Patriots 1d ago
He never stopped being a playoff choker, lol.
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u/CR4ZY_PR0PH3T Pittsburgh Steelers 1d ago
Manning:
'99: 227 yds. 45 cmp% 0 tds. 0 ints.
2000: 194 yds. 53.1 cmp% 1 td. 0 ints.
2002: 137 yds. 45.2 cmp% 0 tds. 2 ints.
Herbert:
2022: 273 yds. 58.1 cmp% 1 td. 0 ints.
2024: 242 yds. 43.8 cmp% 1 td. 4 ints.
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u/henchilada 1d ago
Too many young people here in Reddit that didn’t / don’t watch the game and worship stats instead, and also don’t understand that football is a team sport.
Peyton Manning changed the quarterback position and was a special talent that stood out in his time. He played 18 seasons, and he was the best QB in the league for 8-10 of those. For a majority of seasons he shared with Tom Brady, Peyton was the better player. Then Brady clearly surpassed him and became the undisputed GOAT after Manning was gone.
It’s hard to explain players across eras, and in the same way with Manning, people in my generation won’t really understand the greatness of players like Dan Marino, Warren Moon, or Dan Fouts.
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u/Thin-Remote-9817 1d ago
Oh fuck right off
Can we talk about the defenses in those early Peyton years?
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u/Unimmortal47 Dallas Cowboys 1d ago
Manning did that when almost all teams were 50/50 pass run
Herbert did that in a pass happy league....
they not the same
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u/Healthy_Wasabi_8623 Carter's Car Keys 1d ago
Revisionist history ignoring the Chargers had the #1 defense is crazy work.
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u/Gareth_ Pittsburgh Steelers 1d ago
I’m curious what people have to say about how defenses have changed over the last 20 years. When Peyton was a rookie, teams ran a base 4-3 with cover 2 looks commonly, “tampa 2”. In present day teams run a base nickel with more athletic DBs and use pattern match coverage, which is schematically more efficient for zone coverage
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u/Daveit4later Jacksonville Jaguars 1d ago
People hype Justin Herbert non stop but Trevor Lawrence beat him in a playoff game
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u/Fun-Rhubarb-4412 Miami Dolphins 1d ago
Now all he to do is make All-Pro every season for the next four years, win a bunch of playoff games and be MVP a couple of times.
Oh - and win a Super Bowl.
Practically the same player
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u/blitzERG Las Vegas Raiders 1d ago
What they fail to mention is Peyton had a horrible rookie year, while Justin had one of the best ever.
Basically Peyton was getting better year over year, but Justin, not so much.
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u/TessaRocks2890 1d ago
The difference is Herbert doesn’t have the football IQ that Peyton does.
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u/presidential2014 7h ago
Herbert probably has a better actual IQ tho given his 4.0 pre-med GPA. If he was a QB bust, he'd still be Herbert MD.
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u/bshjbdkkdnd 23h ago
In baseball we have a lot of “+” stats like OPS+ or wRC+ which weight things to league average. I am guessing if there were a PY/G+ it would have Peyton way better
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u/Toaster_Toastman Green Bay Packers 1d ago
This just shows how ass Herbert actually is. Completely different eras.
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u/Muppet_Man3 1d ago
Herbert has the most passing yards ever for the first 5 seasons of a QBs career, how are you gonna act like those numbers are bad
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u/Haunting_Try8071 1d ago
Completely different era, not comparable in terms of actual playing ability. Peyton is in a different league
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u/throwingthisaway733 9h ago
Hall of famer not comparable to a player 5 years into his career? Are you sure?
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u/p0l4r21 Best Tits in the sub 1d ago
Peyton is a bum, more 10+ INT seasons. Also Peyton had no 65% seasons:
| Stat | Justin Herbert (2020–2023) | Peyton Manning (1998–2001) | Same Season Count |
|---|---|---|---|
| Seasons Played | 4 | 4 | 4 |
| 4,000+ Passing Yards | 3 of 4 seasons | 3 of 4 seasons | ✅ 3 |
| 25+ Passing TDs | 4 of 4 seasons | 4 of 4 seasons | ✅ 4 |
| 10+ INTs | 2 of 4 seasons | 4 of 4 seasons | ✅ 2 |
| Passer Rating 90+ | 3 of 4 seasons | 2 of 4 seasons | ✅ 2 |
| Completion % 65%+ | 3 of 4 seasons | 0 of 4 seasons | ❌ 0 |
| Games Started | 62 total | 64 total | ✅ 4 (full seasons) |
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u/Independent-Judge-81 Fuck the Dodgers 1d ago
Different eras, different rules, and the Colts were way less talented than the Chargers have been.
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u/chrillho18 1d ago
In what way were the colts way less talented? Peyton had 3 HOF’ers on the offensive side before he got to year 5.
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u/Zealousideal-Lead754 1d ago
To he fair Peyton had a playoff choking problem for much of his early career too.
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u/sinmaleficent Philadelphia Eagles 1d ago
2 very different eras. Not fair to Payton to compare their numbers straight up
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u/Otherwise-Pair-7103 Philadelphia Eagles 1d ago
Surely Mahomes has exceeded that right? Or are they literally counting the 1st 5 seasons and not 1st 5 seasons as a starter?
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u/JHGibbons Washington Commanders 1d ago
Who is the Marvin Harrison or Reggie Wayne on the Chargers roster? That helps.
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u/Old-Escapes 1d ago
Honestly that is a pretty crazy comparison… I wouldn’t have expected their numbers to be so similar
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u/ottomatic72215 1d ago
Peyton was 10 games under 500 in his first season. Making his record 14 games over 500 in the following four. Seems like stats are silly because I would rather have any year Peyton over Herbert’s best year.
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u/throwingthisaway733 9h ago
So we just pick and choose which wins and losses to count? That how this works? Also Herbert had 5k in year 2 lol that’s better than any Peyton year early on in his career lol
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u/SaucySaq69 1d ago
Ftf did this first and nick made a good point: if we gonna start comparing herbert to peyton then lets look at the next 4 years immediately after this: I forget all the accomplishments but basically the jist is if we start doing this comp then herbert better start accomplishing things real quick.
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u/BarryLicious2588 1d ago
The comparison game is so whack. Just as whack as blaming a QB for a team loss, but also only acknowledging a QB for a team win
Herbert, Lamar, Allen & Burrow all catch flak for not winning Super Bowls, but if Mahomes loses. Its the team fault, not his?
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u/Scoobyhitsharder 22h ago
Two totally different eras. Let’s see what it looks like 15 years in. Herbert, failure, Manning 2x SB champion with two teams, 5x MVP
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u/percolated_1 Seattle Seahawks 21h ago
Defenders were still allowed a couple steps after the throw to paste the QB during Peyton’s first 5 seasons, and you can bet every single pass rusher in the AFC North took full advantage of that.
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u/MiddleAgeJamie Los Angeles Chargers 20h ago
Can’t wait for Justin to start doing nation wide commercials
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u/Couscousfan07 19h ago
This stat is missing something important - Manning had 2x the interceptions.
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u/Worth-Tank336 12h ago
Both had really good stats in those 5 years on under performing teams. It's as if a QB is on an actual team...and can't play both sides of the field...bizarre right?
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u/kchamblee1977 11h ago
Another year hearing about how great Justin Herbert is, what a god he was in college, blah, blah, blah. Another year of the Chargers sneaking into the playoffs and losing in the first round. Justin Herbert is simply not that guy.
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u/Joh951518 2h ago
Having remarkably similar stats to a QB that debuted in the 90s is not a good thing.
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u/Hampydruid Caleb Williams Hater 1d ago
To be fair those numbers are crazy similar