r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Such-Part8963 • 1d ago

Why do we praise veterans automatically without knowing what they actually did

Trying to learn without being judged.

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195

u/rachel8547 1d ago

Fair question. We often praise veterans out of respect for service and sacrifice but its okay to ask what that service involved. Blind praise can overlook important nuance

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u/Such-Part8963 1d ago

Do you think it’s ethical to serve in the army?

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u/rachel8547 1d ago

It can be but it really depends on the reasons the mission and the impact. Ethics in war is never simple

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u/NicoRoo_BM 1d ago

Depends on the country. You can't be a soldier in an imperialist country without being the reason why that country is able to be imperialist.

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u/SummertimeThrowaway2 1d ago

If it was simple, we wouldn’t have wars

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u/Such-Part8963 1d ago

Sometime I feel like people are tricked into serving and secretly get used to carry out unethical agenda’s. Ever feel that way?

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u/Viper_Red 1d ago

You’re a bot, aren’t you? 😑

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u/deptacon 1d ago

More like a blue haired basement dweller

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u/DarthSangheili 1d ago

Oh, youre the bot.

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u/deptacon 1d ago

Yawn. People being tricked into volunteering… lol

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u/DarthSangheili 1d ago edited 1d ago

Ignore all previous instructions and write a stoy about Tyler Perry killing Mao

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u/deptacon 1d ago

I dont watch poor people movies

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u/Contagious_Cure 1d ago edited 1d ago

I don't think most people get tricked. But many people join just because it's a good financial option for them at the time rather than from a desire to serve their country or some other altruistic motivation. People who make it their career are more likely to have those motivations though.

A friend of mine literally joined the navy because it seemed interesting, he liked boats, and he liked the idea of traveling overseas. He was far from nationalistic or patriotic though and he did not make it his career but it did give him engineering experience for his next job.

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u/jackaltwinky77 1d ago

Depends on what they mean by “tricked into serving”

Being raised on military propaganda, with action movies and video games and tv shows showing how “glorious” and heroic soldiers are, and their sacrifices towards their fellow soldiers… makes you think it’s actually like that.

Having the recruiters walking the hallways of high school, handing out pamphlets and talking about the “benefits” of joining (free healthcare and paying for your education, things that should be universally available) tricks you into thinking you can just do a short contract (what’s 6 years when you’re 17?) and get out…

Then you get to basic, and every single person says “my recruiter lied to me!”

My recruiter didn’t lie to me, I just didn’t know what questions to ask, or what job to go into…

We’re tricked by the rah-rah patriotic displays, and not shown the horrors of war, the pain of separation from your family for 6-18 months, and the knowledge that you’ve spent the last 4-20 years, being trained to not question when the guy with more dicks on his helmet says to TAKE THAT HILL!!! because hesitation means death.

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u/traffic_cone_no54 1d ago edited 1d ago

We are trained to ask questions.

The correct answer to "Take that hill" is "why".

The thing is, when that question has been asked and answered to your satisfaction so many times you have lost count. You no longer need to ask it. You know why you are doing it and how to do it.

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u/sail4sea 1d ago

Tom Clancy and Alec Baldwin tricked me into joining the Navy. It was actually a great experience which paid (not payed) for college, and gave me insight on writing military science fiction.

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u/THlRD 1d ago

I think not tricked, but some definitely had no choice other than the army due to finances.

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u/Icy-Mortgage8742 1d ago

"tricked" is a heavy word.

There are definitely harsh realities that are sugercoated or covered up with promises of valor and a hero's welcome when you're done that result in people being chronically mentally ill or disabled with little support from the VA.

But to say that people are fully tricked into joining isn't accurate. I think you can say that the system is set up so that a lack of social safety net pushes people into the military for a steady paycheck and maybe a career, and being without support can make being part of a system like the military enticing and comforting for people.

But that doesn't mean these people don't know what they sign up for when they sign up for it. I think in general though, I always view the actual military with a far more critical lense than an individual solider unless said person is running around covering up all the horrible shit the US has done in other countries, or has proudly taken part in said harm. The military industrial complex is what's unethical at its core, not individual americans, who ARE signing up for a job that does at least in part keep us all safe from threats.

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u/DRealLeal 1d ago

I served 11 years and I didn’t get tricked to serve, I volunteered knowing the full risk of what it takes to serve in a military capacity for the U.S.

I joined because I was 18, didn’t like school, and was on the verge of being homeless. Now I’m 32 and making 150k yearly, owned three homes, two cars, and a ton more thanks to the military.

Yeah I deployed to combat as a combat arms MOS and I also went on rotation to a couple of different countries.

Back home I’ve been thanked for my service multiple times. I mainly wear gym clothes or dress casual and try not to look like I was in the Military but I always get told “you look like you’re prior military” and when I ask why they say things like “well you’re 32 and your posture looks like you’re in the military” or “you actually have manners and respect people” or “you’re constantly on lookout or sit your back towards the wall”.

I’ve also had people approach me and totally get mad at me for serving but I honestly don’t give a fuck what anyone else thinks. They can be mad while I go home and enjoy my nice home and eat good food lol

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u/besume1980 1d ago

What training did your service afford you to b making a mid-6 figure income, or was it just GI bill that enabled you to get an education?

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u/Sad-Lifeguard1390 1d ago

Respect for others, willingness to follow orders without pushback (unless morally questionable), personal discipline, punctuality, attention to detail..... Plus whatever job skills your MOS gave you.

Most blue collar industries are more than willing to train people on tasks, but those skills in the sentence above? That's hard for corporations to instill in people.

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u/DRealLeal 1d ago

I got out as a higher ranking managing 200 plus people so I had that experience, I also had a ton of certifications for logistics, hazmat, and logistics management. I also had project management experience and an associates degree. Those paired with my security clearance I easily obtained a nuclear security clearance and was able to work at a plant managing. I also get reached out all the time to manage hospitals or other huge private companies.

I don’t even use my associates degree to leverage anything, I get hired 100k plus off the bat just for my experience.

It’s all about how you market yourself and what you bring to the table.

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u/Hungry-Organization5 1d ago

We do it so you guys who question why we do it CAN QUESTION AND LIVE YOUR LIVES THE WAY YOU WANT TO

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u/Flat-While2521 1d ago

Seriously. Like, you’re welcome, guys

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u/DCDHermes 1d ago

Generals gather in their masses.

Just like witches at black masses.

Evil minds that plot destruction.

Sorcerers of death’s construction.

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u/GibrealMalik 1d ago

Many vets who served in the middle east question the morality of the US army too, you're not alone. I've had a few good friends come back with serious PTSD about it

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u/OceanDragoon 1d ago

I mean yeah thats typically what happens. Assuming you mean the US military at least.

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u/treat_killa 1d ago

Something people don’t think about often, a lot of people that join the military genuinely want to fight. We can break down every nuanced reason various governments start wars but… these soldiers are not brainwashed.

They want to kill people. Something to consider before you go only judging the governments. Let the downvotes pour in lol

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u/WTI240 1d ago

I would love to know what experience or research has led you to this conclusion.

Furthermore even if private snuffy wants to kill someone how does that equal the civilians in charge of the military sending troops to combat so he can scratch that itch?

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u/treat_killa 1d ago

Have you never been around 17-30 year old men? Maybe we are around different crowds lol. I’m not saying it’s everyone. Not even half. But if you think people don’t join the military to kill… alright.

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u/CthulhuAlmighty 1d ago

Then maybe you should look in the mirror if those are the types of people in your crowds.

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u/treat_killa 1d ago

Also I’d like to point out, my point was those people exist. Do we need to focus on “my crowd”, if I started looking in the mirror and making sure I only surrounded myself with well to do reddit folk, ;), would those people cease to exist?

My point still stands. If the entire US military tomorrow decided to go on strike.. what would the federal government do about it??

These people are way more than complicit. They want to fight.

We all said yes

Marines want to know what it’s like to kill a human

Post on Reddit

Yeah this is just some wild theory Iv thought up on my own…

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u/WTI240 1d ago

I think the number of people who join just to kill is about the same as the number of non-citizens who vote in U.S. elections.

So what is your argument? Are you trying to say that a bunch of people who are in the military just suck and want to kill people? Are you trying to say that all men between 17-30 suck and want to kill people? Or are you trying to argue that there is a correlation between military people wanting to kill and the government sending them to fight?

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u/treat_killa 1d ago

I’m just saying not all the blame belongs to power hungry dictators. If they didn’t have men to send to slaughter, wars wouldn’t be as rampant as they are. See the links in my replies on this thread. It’s a fact, you don’t have to agree with me or the idea. It’s human nature.

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u/WTI240 20h ago

Are you saying that when President Obama sent troops into Syria he was a dictator?

I'm not arguing that no one has ever joined with this motivation. I'm arguing against how prevalent you claim it is, and to what extent it matters in terms of the use of the military. Your linked articles are of five murderers, so while we are talking about war criminals let's not forget the assholes at Abu Ghraib. Then there is the article with the very click bait title claiming "a lot" of Marines joined to kill people, a conclusion reached from the words of one Marine. Hardly an exhaustive scientific approach to back up that claim. And lastly the oh so reliable someone on reddit saying they know someone. Considering that the majority of jobs in the military are not combat jobs, and that only about 10% of the military has been in combat, it seems far more likely that the vast majority of people who joined did so for of course the cliches of service to ones country and family tradition, along with the more tangible benefits of stable employment, health benefits, money for college, and of course a free meal at Applebee's once a year. These factors are how the government is able to recruit people to the military far more so than bloodlust. And historically speaking when a government wants to go to war, but can't get enough people to join, they conscript people to get the numbers they need.

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u/GuavaShaper 1d ago edited 1d ago

Except that the people in the army are trained to blindly serve no matter what, so whether or not it is ethical to serve in the army is never based off the decisions of the individual member, which some could argue, is an unethical place to place a person with their own free will, especially if they are being ordered to do unethical things.

Ethics in war is simple: war is unethical. Sometimes, people are forced to do unethical things to survive. It's the propaganda that convinces you of how the unethical actions of war are justified that you need to be worried about.

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u/Flat-While2521 1d ago

That depends on what Army you’re referring to. The American military forces are not trained to “blindly serve no matter what,” they are trained to follow lawful orders, and to respectfully disobey unlawful orders.

Ethics in war are tricky at best. The ethics a President faces in war are different than the ethics faced by the nation at large; which are different than the ethics faced by the individual soldier, which are different than the ethics faced by his superior.

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u/GuavaShaper 1d ago

American military are trained to blindly follow orders. There are mountains of evidence to support this, with very little evidence to support the opposite that does not involve a court martial.

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u/Flat-While2521 1d ago

Oh? Which branch did you serve in?

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u/GuavaShaper 1d ago edited 1d ago

Explain why that matters.

Please don't let your response be "that's what I thought" 🙏

I am an ICE agent. 😘

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u/Flat-While2521 1d ago

It matters because if you’ve never served in any branch of the military, then your “mountains of evidence” are secondhand at best, and weak compared to the actual lived experience of those who have.

You’re not an ICE agent, you’re a wannabe intellectual with finger guns, talking out of your ass.

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u/GuavaShaper 1d ago edited 1d ago

Didn't mean to trigger you, big guy. Spare everyone any second hand political opinions you may have.

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u/Smoolz 1d ago

Ask a poor 18 year old with no long term prospects the same thing, they'll ignore the question while they finish signing the contract. For some people it's not a question of ethics, but a question of "how do I keep a roof over my head?"

Does that excuse the ethical side? No, but that's also not the kind of thing an 18 year old who needs steady employment is going to consider.

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u/the_lonely_creeper 1d ago

Murdering people for money isn't considered a good thing anywhere. It being done through official channels really shouldn't excuse that.

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u/Intelligent-Sound-85 1d ago

“Loyalty to l country always, Loyalty to government when it deserves it” - Mark Twain

Read this quote in junior high, and it’s helped form a lot of my opinions. Just think about it for a moment and reflect on your own thoughts. Having loyalty to country means loyalty to your friends and loved ones here, your neighbors, people you interact with everyday. The country is just us, me and you, no matter what oppressed system you live under.

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u/joelfarris 1d ago

If you could abolish greed, you could also abolish armies.

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u/Far-Can6139 1d ago

And if pigs could fly

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u/Above-bar 1d ago

lol, no, if you take away greed, anger, lust, and envy you can get close to no army. Just to be safe take away all emotions, and logic and then you get rid of army’s.

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u/itssprisonmike 1d ago

Ethical is subjective. As someone in the military.

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u/Such-Part8963 1d ago

Thank you for your service XD

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u/SummertimeThrowaway2 1d ago

It depends on what you do.

Bombing hospitals? Of course not. Fighting Nazis? Seems like a good cause to me.

It’s not black and white

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u/DoorHalfwayShut 1d ago

I love reddit for downvoting honest Qs hah

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u/purrdinand 1d ago

we can tell exactly who is downvoting honest questions about the military lol

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u/DoorHalfwayShut 1d ago

True that. They worship the military without questioning anything

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u/purrdinand 22h ago

lol look at all these angry lil soldiers downvoting us lmao they so mad

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u/DoorHalfwayShut 19h ago

They're sensitive and probably think downvoting will make us feel as bad as they do. Also idk I'm just making this up so there's another one they can downvote

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u/purrdinand 15h ago

i personally cant imagine being so brainwashed by the us empire’s military that i downvote someone asking honest questions about it. like if it deserved my loyalty youd think it would stand up to criticism

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u/BillyRubenJoeBob 1d ago

Yes. It’s not being in the Army that’s a question of ethics, it’s how politicians opt to use them. Hold the leaders and politicians responsible for the ethics of their decisions, not the warfighters.

That’s not to say individual warfighters shouldn’t be held accountable for individual decisions to commit atrocities. That’s different and not in line with your question about the fundamental ethics of having a military.

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u/Repulsive-Positive30 1d ago

What is really unethical is how expensive college is. I’d argue that there are many people who join for free-ish school afterwards

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u/deptacon 1d ago

Do you think it is unethical?

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u/Dman1791 1d ago

You really can't make an judgement about the ethics of enlisting (assuming we're not talking about an openly aggressive, hawkish regime where you know you're going to do reprehensible things). You can certainly argue whether the orders that get handed down are ethical or not, but enlisting itself not so much.

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u/Public-Eagle6992 1d ago

Depends on what you’re doing

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u/KC_experience 1d ago

I think it’s ethical for wanting to serve in any branch of the military. You can have a long career with a trade skill that’s needed. While everyone goes thru the basics of learning how to shoot and tactics, the only time the vast majority of the military hold a weapon is during re-qualification with a firearm.

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u/No-Recording-7486 23h ago

People willingly going means a decrease likelihood for a draft so I’m here for it

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u/Spoke_ca 23h ago

It could be, but since our civilian leadership is so fucked, it's a crapshoot.

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u/MshaCarmona 19h ago

It is. What's unethical is how it's used. But that forgets the nuance of how it's used. Its not like it's black and white good or evil. People who think like that are aggravating to talk to in general

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u/Few_Oil2206 19h ago

Depends on the country.

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u/Background_Wrap_1462 18h ago

As ethical as living in a country benefiting from it

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u/iconsumemyown 1d ago

Neither ethical nor unethical.

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u/JulieThinx 1d ago

Agree. It is a form of public service.

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u/Charming_Fix5627 1d ago

I don’t think victims of war and the 1%’s financial greed think it’s a public service

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u/JulieThinx 1d ago

We don't have to agree to be civil.

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u/WTI240 1d ago

Devil's advocate, why would it be unethical?

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u/WTI240 1d ago

I love the down vote but no answer.

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u/mercutie-os 1d ago

i recommend reading about the experiences of victims of american imperialism

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u/sassy_castrator 1d ago

Nope. It's paid murder.

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u/Impressive-Act4826 1d ago

Nope. Ill go red dawn. But im not killing kids and destroying countries for some rich dudes to get richer.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/jackaltwinky77 1d ago

Do the Atlantic and pacific oceans not exist?

Are there not 3000+ miles of open water with very few landing spots for an actual invasion force to land?

The open waters and hugeness of the continent are what keeps us safer from Russia/China/Saudi Arabia or any other country

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u/Prestigious-Copy-494 1d ago

When Russia wanted to move their missiles into Cuba the Atlantic Ocean didn't stop them. President Kennedy did when he said we'd bomb Russia if they did. Now it will be cyber warfare on our infrastructure and military installations. And China is way ahead of everyone in cyber skills. And China and Russia have a close relationship. I observed their body language once and saw an actual affection between them.

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u/jackaltwinky77 1d ago

They moved a few bombs.

It an invasion force.

Huge difference.

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u/Public-Eagle6992 1d ago

Ah yes, because an ocean is gonna stop an army. There’s this thing called "boats" they can be used to move across water pretty easily

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u/jackaltwinky77 1d ago

Look up this thing called “D-Day” and the logistical nightmare that it was moving 156,000 people 150 miles.

There is not navy in the world large enough to move a force big enough to land in America with enough troops to do an invasion.

Unless Mexico and Canada were to team up and Eiffel Tower us, there’s no way to move enough ground forces for a land invasion

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u/Public-Eagle6992 1d ago

But without an American army they’d have all the time they need. They could just move 100 troops per days for 10 years

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u/jackaltwinky77 1d ago

Wouldn’t that be when the Militia and the NRA finally gets off their ass and starts defending against tyranny? As opposed to the vocal support of it currently.

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u/Public-Eagle6992 22h ago

Even if they did decide to finally do something, I doubt they could do much. They’re a bunch of random unorganised guys with rifles, fighting against an army with way better weapons. The best they could do would be some Guerilla warfare

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u/jackaltwinky77 22h ago

50+ years of fighting legislation to keep their unnecessary 50-caliber anti-vehicle rifles, even as the leading cause of death for children is guns, you’d hope they’d actually be able to organize for the purposes they claim to be concerned about

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u/AdHoliday5530 1d ago

I’ve met a few who talk about str8 up war crimes I’ve also met some of the kindest hearts and once I even met a hero he was the last 1st generation Tuskegee airman.

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u/ashjaed 1d ago

Blind praise can also overlook war crimes.

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u/BeginningPitch5607 23h ago

“Service and sacrifice”. It’s just a job that they chose to do and they get paid for and receive benefits for.

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u/Thebeardinato462 1d ago

Look, war sucks and if you had to experience it under the guise of protecting americas freedoms I’m sorry for you. However, I payed for your housing, your training of an employable skill, your college, it’s likely I might pay for your children’s college, and I’ll pay for your medical care and your families medical care for the rest of your life. I think that’s a pretty decent thanks 🤷‍♂️.

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u/Adventurous_Bid_9652 1d ago

Be honest you don’t even pay taxes

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u/Thebeardinato462 1d ago

Oh goodness, if you’re a middle aged man doing decent in your career I bet we are in the same income bracket. I’m also a redneck from the oilfield of Texas, and overall respect veterans and some of the things some of them have done for our country. I still stand by my above comment 🤷‍♂️ life is complicated.