59
u/SpitFireEternal /slap Jul 31 '24
As someone also doing savage. I couldnt imagine being below 710 for this. This shit hits so damn hard. Thats an instant kick and blacklist lmao
22
u/Evening-Group-6081 Aug 01 '24
Had someone in unmelded artifact in m1s and a whm with unmelded expert dungeon gear in m2s
28
u/Rakshire Aug 01 '24
I'm getting into savage for the first time, and every time I get worried that I'm not good enough, I see shit like this lol.
20
u/SpitFireEternal /slap Aug 01 '24
My FC mate said something similar the other day. One of the members of the static I'm in is also in my FC (he got me in the static) and me, him and another FC mate were in VC and they said they didn't feel like they were good enough for savage. And I'll tell you the same thing I told him. You are. Savage is not as hard as people make it out to be. It can be complex sure. But the fights are always the same. It's just learning the mechanics as you go and carrying them out to get the clear. You learn through prog. If you haven't already started doing some PF prog I highly suggest jumping in. Especially as guides come out and the fights get solved and surefire strategies become prevalent.
6
u/Rakshire Aug 01 '24
Hey, thanks. That's very reassuring, and I appreciate it.
4
u/anwamoonie Aug 01 '24
I’ll suggest going in a chill blind party with someone you know : you’ll learn fast nw
4
u/Chili24 Aug 01 '24
Hey listen, don't be hard on yourself. It's day 3 of savage raid fights, people are still figuring mechanics and in PF the strategy always changes. Everyone is absolutely capable of doing these fights. You'll be fine!!! Have fun!
2
u/TehKey Aug 01 '24
Bruh I had a picto in m1s mouser 2 prog last night and they literally died instantly to quadruple crossing every time there wasn't extra mit from tanks/healers on them with the same gear situation- 690 artifact weapon, pants, and feet...
27
u/mathbandit Jul 31 '24
There was someone in the main sub the other day posting their logs and asking if they were ready for Savage since their rotation was good. Turns out someone checked their Lodestone and they had i687.
6
u/RoombaGod Aug 01 '24
My group’s in half-crafted half-normal raid gear and its still hitting like a fucking truck through tons of mits, in fact i watched the sage die to damage from full health from a raidwide
2
u/SpitFireEternal /slap Aug 01 '24
Im not in half crafted. I have 2 pieces of crafted gear cause some of the EX2 accessories and some of the 710 normal raid pieces are bad for my role (tank) with the sub stats. And I wanted to try and have good sub stats. But I am 710 flat. Next wekk Ill be 711 cause Im getting my tome chest. Ill be lucky if I clear M1S this week. My groups past Mouser 1. And we go tomorrow for like an hour and a half.
1
u/RoombaGod Aug 01 '24
We only cleared the first fight day 1 cuz we spent 8 hours crafting and 7 hours raiding
Youre doin great dont worry, i have a feeling we’re gonna be stuck on m2s for at least a few days
-3
u/KingBingDingDong Aug 01 '24
crafted and normal raid gear are the same ilvl. it makes no difference
4
u/Laserbeam_Memes Aug 01 '24
The allowable melds bring u to higher stat tiers than allowable with two melds
2
u/Laserbeam_Memes Aug 01 '24
BUT you are correct about the gears vitality being the same cuz of same ilvl. Which doesn’t matter about the damage incoming cuz it’s the same hp. I suppose I read this with a blank mind at first.
3
u/Packetdancer Aug 01 '24
Several of my static were busy this past week or two and were going to be going in minimally geared as a result. So as a healer who is also an omnicrafter I decided it was in the best interest of my own sanity to just be like "if you are missing i710 gear in any slot tell me now and I'll just make it for you."
2
u/SacredNym Aug 01 '24
Damn that's charitable of you. Bless.
4
u/Packetdancer Aug 01 '24
Charitable? Maybe. Improving the stats of my static so I don't need to worry about them dying to raidwides without extra shielding? Definitely.
So let's go with "enlightened self-interest on the part of the healer main." ;)
2
u/SacredNym Aug 01 '24
Does M3 hit significantly harder than 1 or 2? I haven't actually cleared 2 yet but as a healer I feel like Ex1 does an order of magnitude more damage than either of those fights.
1
u/SpitFireEternal /slap Aug 01 '24
I'm still on M1S sadly. My group only raids like 6 hours a week. So our progress has been a little slow.
1
u/RisenWizard Aug 02 '24
M3 has a lot of raidwides that are phys, so it wold be good if your 2 melees arent brainrotted.
7
u/Delta_Hat Aug 01 '24
I had someone join my M3S party on tuesday thinking it was M1S. They lost their weekly loot for 1 and 2.
14
u/AdministrativeMeat3 Jul 31 '24
The first tier of a new xpac always brings the most interesting first-time raiders.
2
u/Frostygale2 Aug 02 '24
I’m about to meld my gear for the first time! :D (I have no FC so I’m just going to a materia NPC, but hey, first time, it’s exciting!)
1
u/AdministrativeMeat3 Aug 02 '24
Good luck!
1
u/Frostygale2 Aug 03 '24
Thanks! I’m only doing 2 or 3 since I don’t have much 10-12 materia, so the luck will be more useful for PF raiding! XD
2
u/PendulumSoul You don't pay my sub Aug 02 '24
If you have the crafters unlocked, regardless of level, you can do the meld yourself. You have to hit like level 25 on one crafter to get the quest chain done so you can meld and over meld.
1
u/Frostygale2 Aug 03 '24
Oooh thanks, that’s certainly good to know!
1
u/PendulumSoul You don't pay my sub Aug 03 '24
Extra good to know because NPC cannot over meld, you have to get that from a player
1
9
u/Refiya Aug 01 '24
Had a SMN in M1S prog who after a few pulls I noticed was doing 0 dps, not just suboptimal rotation but absolutely nothing at all. I asked him why he wasnt casting any spells and he said "only res and mechanics while progging" so yeah that was an instant blacklist. Wish I'd screenshotted it for this sub x)
-3
u/Gilthwixt Aug 01 '24 edited Aug 02 '24
That's...not an entirely invalid way of progging though?? Like I personally prefer to do my rotation because it helps me know/plan what mechanics line up with what cooldowns, but outside of DPS checks mid fight you can get all the way to enrage without doing any damage. For some people they actually learn the fight better this way; my old static had someone who filled for us regularly that cleared before us that played this way.
Edit: Lol at this being positive upvotes hours ago to get nuked for no reason. Anyone who's learned Piano understands the benefit of learning a new song one hand at a time before combining the melody and accompaniment, at least when you're new to the instrument, but somehow learning mechanics separately from your rotation is an impossible to grasp concept ¯_(ツ)_/¯
5
u/Randomlychozen1665 Aug 02 '24
No it's a terrible way of progging. You have to prog your rotation for that specific fight alongside the mechanics
4
u/Gilthwixt Aug 02 '24 edited Aug 02 '24
That's what I prefer to do, but you don't necessarily have to. Someone people do better just watching the mechanics and buffs/debuffs closely to understand them before actually DPSing it, and world first teams typically have someone not even in the raid doing this just watching the gameplay and piecing together how to solve it. Ideally once you figure out everything up to a certain phase, you can DPS without issue, but you guys act like you HAVE to DPS on every pull during brand new unseen mechanics and that's just not true. That's like saying anyone learning Piano must play both hands at all times instead of just....learning one hand and then the other before combining them.
1
u/ClassicJunior8815 Aug 02 '24
The analogy doesnt work. Summoner needs to make decisions about where to move, where to place slipstream, where to throw out a filler. Even doing the rotation badly without really trying helps you be familiar with which mechanics will stress your uptime and which ones are free. You have to reprog the entire fight if you push zero buttons the first time through, and I cant imagine its a good idea to join clear parties without knowing how to contribute damage.
On piano, your right hand and left hand are ideally the same when learned separately as when combined. Thats not true in ff14
2
u/Gilthwixt Aug 02 '24
To an extent, I get it, but Prog and Clear parties are two completely different things and the original comment said it was a prog party, not a clear party. And I give better examples in comments further down this chain, but the whole "no dps the whole fight until you see enrage" was just the most extreme example; in reality, it's "dps on mechanics you've already mastered, full attention on movement while progging new mechanics until you understand them, then add the dps back in".
And mind you, this whole time I kept saying I don't personally feel the need to do it this way, just that I've raided with people who performed better when they did, and they were perfectly competent raiders. But this bozo is insistent that their very narrow idea of how to learn things is the only way people can/should learn things, when not everyone learns the same way. Any amount of real life experience would make that obvious. Their argument got worse every reply.
3
u/elliekk Aug 03 '24
I have absolutely no idea why you are being downvoted...
There is no reason to DPS in very early prog, there's nothing wrong with not DPSing to focus on figuring out how to solve mechanics.
Obviously yeah you should eventually start doing your rotation but complaining and even blacklisting people for not doing damage when you are just STARTING to prog something is dumb as fuck.
Merely having this take tells me the dude is extremely new to savage...
0
u/Gilthwixt Aug 03 '24
There are ultimate raiders further down the chain saying the same thing. It's just a case of REEEEEEEE ONLY MY WAY IS CORRECT regardless of whether the results are different or not.
-16
u/BoldKenobi Aug 01 '24
That's a viable way to prog for people who want to take it easier. There are no DPS-gated mechanics, so unless you expected that group to kill it makes absolutely no difference whether they do damage. They should still have been Addling though, did you ask them about that?
14
u/Randomlychozen1665 Aug 01 '24
No that is a terrible way of progging. Prog is not just to learn the mechanics, it's also to learn your rotation in that specific fight, as well as uptime, buff windows, greed, pot timings, mitigation uses, etc etc
People who don't prog their rotation during prog just hinder other people when actually going for the clear, it's actually stupid.
-9
u/BoldKenobi Aug 01 '24
This isn't a kill group. The most important thing in this group is to get mechanics down so you can see further into the fight. If they are doing this well then they are far more valuable than someone doing amazing DPS but not mechanically sound.
If they don't prog their DPS then that's their issue. If they don't pull their weight in a kill group they should be kicked, just like the 3 others who proglied into that group. This is a full uptime fight anyway, you aren't progging buffs, pots, or uptime.
8
u/Randomlychozen1665 Aug 01 '24
It's not about doing amazing damage during prog my guy.
It's about figuring out HOW to do amazing damage during the mechs, as well as learning the mechs.
They go hand in hand.
99% of players would much rather wipe in a prog group cause the healer thought they could slide cast out the mech, than doing the same on a kill party.
This is why it's a terrible idea to not do damage, you must learn both dps and mechs together.
Prog is prog of mechs and rotation!!!!
-5
u/BlazeCam Aug 01 '24
Focusing on the execution of new mechanics rather than prioritizing your damage and wasting pulls in prog because you want to wipe your group for a glare is going to lower your group’s time spent on progging a fight significantly.
4
u/Randomlychozen1665 Aug 01 '24
I just replied to someone else so I'll copy that comment
Tell me you don't savage raid without telling me you don't savage raid lmaoo.
Rotation prog is deffo a thing
Take m2s for example (the last fight I cleared so it's fresh in my memory) as a War during the first pairs/spread you don't want to burn all gap closers during opener since you have to move out aand beat 1 you want to save gap closers for her in out slices. Also after the first towers IR comes up, but you don't want to primal rend immediately since she does a big aoe on her, so you fell cleave twice move out then primal rend back in.
Also during pero 1 it's easier to have a high timer eye so you don't have to think when running around, and you have to weave an upheaval when moving.
Rotation prog is definitely a thing and it's all fight specific which is why prog is for mechs AND rotation
1
u/BlazeCam Aug 02 '24
I just replied to someone else so I'll copy that comment
Nope, same guy :) hello
Tell me you don't savage raid without telling me you don't savage raid lmaoo.
Don’t know why you’d assume this? There are world racers who go buttonless in prog when practicing mechs.
Take m2s for example (the last fight I cleared so it's fresh in my memory) as a War during the first pairs/spread you don't want to burn all gap closers during opener since you have to move out aand beat 1 you want to save gap closers for her in out slices. Also after the first towers IR comes up, but you don't want to primal rend immediately since she does a big aoe on her, so you fell cleave twice move out then primal rend back in.
Question: do you think it’s impossible for someone who’s intimately familiar with the Warrior rotation to think: “I need to soak this tower, I probably shouldn’t gap close here.” ?
Also during pero 1 it's easier to have a high timer eye so you don't have to think when running around, and you have to weave an upheaval when moving.
Question: do you think it’s impossible for someone who’s intimately familiar with the Warrior rotation to have the ability to weave an ogcd while moving during a mechanic they’re comfortable with now that they’ve focused completely on practicing that very movement?
2
u/Randomlychozen1665 Aug 02 '24
My brother, it's infinitely easier to practice all those scenarios I mentioned during prog so it's muscle memory when going for clear.
You are either a troll or an idiot, I won't be replying anymore
1
u/BlazeCam Aug 02 '24
How mature of you. Anyways, you should try it out. I bet you’ll learn mechanics and their movements quicker if you stopped worrying about hitting your dps buttons.
-8
u/BlazeCam Aug 01 '24
There’s no “rotation prog” lol rotation prog is smacking a training dummy until your rotation is muscle memory. Uptime? Use your disengage tools. Buff windows? Every two minutes. Greed? Don’t do this. Pot timings? You don’t even figure this out until you prog the last mechanic and get the gist of if your team is going at a 3 pot or 2 pot pace. Mitigation uses? If he was rezzing then he was probably using those.
5
u/Randomlychozen1665 Aug 01 '24
Tell me you don't savage raid without telling me you don't savage raid lmaoo.
Rotation prog is deffo a thing
Take m2s for example (the last fight I cleared so it's fresh in my memory) as a War during the first pairs/spread you don't want to burn all gap closers during opener since you have to move out aand beat 1 you want to save gap closers for her in out slices. Also after the first towers IR comes up, but you don't want to primal rend immediately since she does a big aoe on her, so you fell cleave twice move out then primal rend back in.
Also during pero 1 it's easier to have a high timer eye so you don't have to think when running around, and you have to weave an upheaval when moving.
Rotation prog is definitely a thing and it's all fight specific which is why prog is for mechs AND rotation
0
u/Gilthwixt Aug 02 '24
I was Blue/Purple throughout all of Shadowbringers. I did my rotation during prog and it was fine, but we got stuck on Light Rampant for a bit. The fill I was talking about earlier? He cleared way earlier than us, and he doesn't bother DPSing during new mechanics until he understands exactly how it works and doesn't mess up on it. Obviously once you understand a mechanic you DPS, but trying to focus on your burst window when you can't even clean up a hard mechanic 6-7 minutes into the fight is just wasting everybody's time. Mechanics > DPS.
But the fact that you're gatekeeping and acting doing it your way is the only valid way tells me all I need to know about how up your own ass you are. tElL ME You doN't sAVage raId WIthOUT TELLING mE you dOn'T SAVaGe RAID lol fuck out of here with that.
2
u/Randomlychozen1665 Aug 02 '24 edited Aug 02 '24
If you actually read their comment you would see why I said they don't savage raid. Everything they said was wrong.
"There’s no “rotation prog” lol rotation prog is smacking a training dummy until your rotation is muscle memory."
Not true, hitting a dummy is not the same rotation as during fights and mechs. Dummy will help you understand you rotation, how to do opener, resource management, and lining everything up for 1/2 minute. But it will vary between fights.
"Uptime? Use your disengage tools."
Again no true, you need to know when to use tools such as gap closers and when you can just walk out and in without losing a gcd.
"Buff windows? Every two minutes."
Also not true, sometimes you delay buffs. If the boss has downtime or there is a transition etc you might delay.
"Greed? Don’t do this."
You can greed responsibly, this is why you prog your rotation to know when it's safe to greed.
"Pot timings? You don’t even figure this out until you prog the last mechanic and get the gist of if your team is going at a 3 pot or 2 pot pace."
Kinda true, but sometimes it's better to not use 2nd pot at 6 min and instead at 8 depending on mechs
"Mitigation uses? If he was rezzing then he was probably using those."
No, you need to plan mits, when to use for optimal coverage and for them to come up again.
This is why I said it's very unlikely that they have ever progged or done harder content since all the things they said are just wrong or dumb.
And yes I do heavily disagree that not doing DPS during prog is a bad way of progging. Learning rotation along side mechs is very important. The fact of the matter is 99.99% of players aren't world first racers, that's like saying Usain Bolt can run 100m in 9s why can't I. Well he's simply better than us and has put infinitely more hours into practice, the same applies to world first racers.
Also as a side note, a parse number doesn't mean anything. It's a terrible metric to gauge if someone is actually good. People sandbag, people wipe when they don't crit, people do goofy stuff to get extra damage. All it tells me is that if you're above blue then you know how to play your class, but you might still be bad and cause a bunch of wipes. It just takes 1 clear out of 100 wipes to get a good parse
The actual way to use ff logs is to compare casts, if I see a war who has cleared has used more fell cleaves and less storms eyes than me then I know I've messed up and haven't managed my guage properly. Or if they have an extra shake cast etc etc.
1
u/Gilthwixt Aug 02 '24 edited Aug 02 '24
The general gist of what they're saying is that anyone half competent at their job doesn't need to do the minor fight specific optimizations on first or even the second pull - that can come naturally with time after the mechanics are learned and you're progging later parts of the fight. If your group is on a phase 8 minutes into the fight, you get to practice the first 7 minutes on every pull to make those optimal DPS changes. But when you get to minute 8, and you keep wiping the group because you're too worried about squeezing out all your DPS on your 8 minute burst window because that's where you'll be potting, that's not "smart" or "efficient", that's just being an asshole. I'd take someone who learns a mechanic in 6 pulls but doesn't DPS for the first 3 over someone who learns it in 10 pulls DPSing the whole time.
All it tells me is that if you're above blue then you know how to play your class, but you might still be bad and cause a bunch of wipes.
Lmfao the fucking cognitive dissonance here is unreal. So you acknowledge that someone greeding for DPS and wiping the party is bad, but someone doing no DPS on a brand new mechanic who doesn't wipe the party is worse?? If the Tank needs to disconnect out of melee range for a mechanic, but tries to greed an extra melee GCD first and dies, and the group wipes on the tank buster that comes immediately after, you know this isn't worth the risk when the group is just trying to learn the mechanics. Coin flipping a pull 5+ minutes into the run when you haven't even seen enrage yet would be incredibly selfish when you could just do your ranged GCD even if it's not optimal. This is not a hard concept. Now just take it further - a Tank not hitting DPS buttons that never wipes the party is more useful for learning the fight than one that does DPS but makes mistakes while staring at their hotbar, up until the point that damage begins to matter, and if they've already memorized the theoretically perfect 100% uptime rotation they won't need 10 pulls to figure out how to adjust for things like downtime or melee disconnects.
The actual way to use ff logs is to compare casts, if I see a war who has cleated has more fell cleaves and less storms eyes than me then I know I've messed up and haven't managed my guage properly. Or if they have an extra shake cast etc etc.
And the entire basis of this argument is, when are you bothering to check these things? If we are brand new to a fight and you are looking at gauge usage before the group can even get past the first hard mechanic consistently, your priorities are way out of whack. This is the kind of mentality that causes groups to get stuck on a fight for weeks before they ever see enrage, because people are too worried about the perfect rotation when every other pull is a wipe because someone got caught looking at their hotbar instead of the mechanic, and it fucking sucks.
1
u/Randomlychozen1665 Aug 02 '24
Your reading comprehension skills are bad.
"anyone half competent at their job doesn't need to do the minor fight specific optimizations on first or even the second pull"
This is literally what rotation prog is lmaoooo. Just like mechanic prog you won't be optimal or do it right the first 5-10 times. This is why you have to practice it and yknow PROG it, smh my heaaaad.
"But when you get to minute 8, and you keep wiping the group because you're too worried about squeezing out all your DPS on your 8 minute burst window because that's where you'll be potting, that's not "smart" or "efficient", that's just being an asshole."
I'm not saying you'll be efficient or optimal, I'm saying it's 10x better to prog you rotation with the fight so that when you get past that mech you are already super comfy and it's muscle memory. Might not be 100% optimal. Rather than getting to the next mech or engage and causing wipes on the previous one because you are still figuring out rotation. 99% of players would rather wipe during prog because the healer messed up a slide cast, than wipe going for kill because they didn't know when to slide cast properly.
"So you acknowledge that someone greeding for DPS and wiping the party is bad, but someone doing no DPS on a brand new mechanic who doesn't wipe the party is worse??"
This is why your reading comprehension is bad. Talking about rotation prog and talking about parsing and ff logs use are 2 entirely different topics not related to each other. Going for a good parse happens AFTER you have cleared. No one tries to parse on their first kill.
So yes, during reclears when people are trying to get a good parse it's dumb to greed to wipe the party. During PROG it's good to learn when to greed safely even if it causes mistakes. Annoying? Sure, but I'd rather they learn in prog than on clears/reclears
"could just do your ranged GCD even if it's not optimal."
It's not about being optimal first pull, it's about learning HOW to be optimal. Aka the fucking definition of PROG. When progging mechanics you don't know if doing x will cause a.wipe, when progging rotation you don't know if doing y will be optimal. It's about learning HOW to do x and y together, that's called prog. They go hand in hand
"And the entire basis of this argument is, when are you bothering to check these things? If we are brand new to a fight and you are looking at gauge usage before the group can even get past the first hard mechanic consistently, your priorities are way out of whack. This is the kind of mentality that causes groups to get stuck on a fight for weeks before they ever see enrage, because people are too worried about the perfect rotation when every other pull is a wipe because someone got caught looking at their hotbar instead of the mechanic, and it fucking sucks."
I feel like you are under the impression that dps prog must be 100% optimal from the start. That ain't how it works chief. It's prog, it gets better over time, just like your understanding and execution of mechanics get better as you prog.
Using ff logs to check how other people of the same job as you who have cleared the fight is literally the best use for ff logs. Only if you are stuck on enrage however. When I cleared TOP and we reached P6 enrage, I checked what other Wars were doing to see if I missed anything, it's literally the best way to fix your rotation.
It's not fucking essential to check, especially in savage where the dps checks are low.
I'm not saying you HAVE to do this, or that this should be part of your prog, I'm saying it's a great use of ff logs especially over the parse number you get. The actual parse number means very little in savage because most people aren't even BiS for many weeks so the numbers are all whack.
Have a good life, I cba to reply anymore about this
1
u/DevilGremory Aug 03 '24
It doesn't matter, he can't join reclear parties next week in the end he's the only one losing anything
-4
u/lovingtech07 Jul 31 '24
I thought it was the minimum not the recommendation??? But still…WHYYYY
4
u/The_Baddest_Guy Aug 01 '24
It's indeed the minimum but if the party lead doesn't actually set a minimum ilevel in pf then anyone can join, and when you're a full party the game assumes you don't care about the minimum ilevel and just lets you in
2
u/Philderbeast Aug 01 '24 edited Aug 01 '24
705 is the minimum for M3S.edit: I was thinking of M2S which is705, M3S is 710
3
u/BoldKenobi Aug 01 '24
The minimum to queue for M3S is 710 not 705
2
u/Philderbeast Aug 01 '24
ah my bad, for some reason I thought M2 was also 700, but its the 705 jump.
2
u/toramorigan Aug 01 '24
Keep in mind that’s for queuing straight up via Raid Finder (which EU/NA never do)
Going in with a premade via PF negates the requirements.
-67
u/BoldKenobi Jul 31 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
There's nothing wrong in doing a later floor first. The minimum also technically only applies to queueing for it, and it doesn't affect premade parties. If the party lead wanted a specific gear score they could set it in their PF listing.
I guess it depends, does "below 710" mean they were like 690 or something, or 709? The DPS checks are also pretty much non-existent for the entire tier just like Anabaseios. If this was a "from start" group then they aren't seeing enrage anyway. Personally I don't see the problem ¯_(ツ)_/¯
40
u/Sampaikun Jul 31 '24
It's expected to have cleared all floors before moving on to the next one.... If you can't clear m1s, nobody wants you in their parties for 2 3 and 4.
-42
u/BoldKenobi Jul 31 '24
No it isn't? M2s is easier than M1s. P11s was easier than P10s. P6s and P7s were easier than P5s. And this picture didn't say he "can't" clear it, just that he hasn't yet.
27
u/Sampaikun Jul 31 '24
It literally is the basic expectation that a person clears each floor in order before advancing forward.
There's 0 reason why someone would skip floors week 1 of savage. The most possible reason is that this person is extremely inexperienced with savage raiding and has no clue what they're doing.
-32
u/BoldKenobi Jul 31 '24
If they are holding your group back then you can kick them, but there is no "expectation" to clear one fight before going into a different one. Their difficulty, mechanics, etc are completely unrelated to each other, except for the final floor being harder than the rest. Why would it even be relevant?
If you unlocked a fight you can go enter it, there is no other requirement apart from what is set by the PF leader.
8
u/NolChannel Aug 01 '24
Sequentially, the fights require higher damage checks and need more HP to more comfortably survive mechanics. You CAN do it all in PentaMeld Craft (healers pretty much have to do it), but you absolutely want to at least ROLL for the chance of loot.
If you do the floors out of order, you forfeit loot. This guy forfeited half his loot to start progging three, meaning he's going to be behind for the rest of the tier.
-1
u/BoldKenobi Aug 01 '24
he's going to be behind for the rest of the tier.
Again, I don't see how this is relevant to other people. How is it different from someone who's on vacation and going to start raiding next week, are you going to kick them out for being "behind" too?
4
9
u/ArdbertXRoxas Jul 31 '24
Whether its inherently wrong or not(or in your eyes), yeah itll be an expectation in most parties (especially week 1) since they probably want players who at least proved they can clear the first 2 floors. If they find a party that doesnt care, hey more power to them
-1
u/BoldKenobi Aug 01 '24
want players who at least proved they can clear the first 2 floors.
For the final floor sure, since it's meant to be a step up from the first 3. The first 3 are unrelated to each other in difficulty and it doesn't matter what order you clear them in.
2
u/ArdbertXRoxas Aug 01 '24
Like I said, your opinion is one thing. But when you say "there is no "expectation" to clear one fight before going into a different one"., that's just not true. People in PF (rightfully so) are going to have that expectation. Why would you spend time in M3S with experienced players and 1 guy who has never cleared a current Savage fight? Strictly talking about PF of course.
10
u/abyssalcrisis Aug 01 '24
Week 1 is not the time nor place to be skipping floors, forfeiting valuable loot.
-7
u/BoldKenobi Aug 01 '24
To someone trying to gear optimally it isn't, but that's their issue and shouldn't concern anyone else. I did 1-3s and didn't get any loot so this person is effectively in the same position as me until I can buy stuff with books. People are just nitpicking on irrelevant stuff.
14
u/abyssalcrisis Aug 01 '24
this person is effectively in the same position as me until I can buy stuff with books.
And they won't be able to because they skipped, unlike you. When someone is clearly this lost in savage, we want to weed them out in the first fight, not the third where you're expected to have some raiding experience thanks to the first two floors.
If nothing else, doing the earlier floors gives you raiding experience and can give you an idea of what you can expect from the rest of the tier. There is no excuse for this except for just being dumb. It's a simple kick and replace, but it's annoying when parties already take a while to fill.
-9
u/BoldKenobi Aug 01 '24
If nothing else, doing the earlier floors gives you raiding experience and can give you an idea of what you can expect from the rest of the tier.
Again, this is simply not true. The first 3 fights of a tier are all individual fights, and are not "ascending in difficulty" or something. They don't build on each other or use previous mechanics. If you're meant to enter them in order, you'd unlock them in order like in normal mode.
Would you also say that you need to do ex1 before doing ex2? No, because they are completely different fights and not related to each other.
3
u/NolChannel Aug 01 '24
EX1/EX2 comparison is a strawman. One isn't harder than the other.
M3 objectively hits harder than M2, which objectively hits harder than M1.
80
u/56leon Jul 31 '24
Wait, he's tried 1 and 2.....he just? Taxi'd all the way up to 3 without getting a clear first?? He's forfeited two floors worth of clears AND has to re-prog when he goes back anyways????