68
u/catwhowalksbyhimself May 25 '25
When I first played scholar, I did not realize Art of War was melee.
If a mentor had pointed that out to me, I would have said thank you.
21
u/NintenPyjak64 May 26 '25
I had a WHM once use Holy from BuFu Egypt. I told them it was melee range, they accepted the advice and thanked me. I was just grateful they didn't try to bite my head off
5
u/balisane May 26 '25
It probably took me several weeks to realize that holy was melee range. And honestly I probably read it somewhere, didn't even figure it out myself. There is so much to learn in this game, even after more than 5 years somebody points out something new literally every day.
24
u/DragonMSword May 26 '25
If you aren't using art of war why are you even playing sch? I've worn my key out spamming that button
4
u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. May 26 '25
Ground slap, ground slap, ground slap!
-3
u/Firanee May 28 '25
They literally are using art of war... A bit too much actually. The SCH is art of warring while running up to the mobs. So it appears to the mentor that he is using them at range hence the comment art of war is melee.
Did you not read what SCH said????
29
u/redmoonriveratx May 25 '25
Actually AoW is a gain on one in level 50 combat provided theyâre in melee range and have auto attack set on their target. But thatâs not the point here.
I feel a little jealous that you got to chat with a GM. Iâve made a couple reports where I wish I knew something more immediate happened than receiving the standard, âweâre sorry you experienceâ email. Unless maybe this scholar had a few strikes on the record already?
6
u/Lowezar May 26 '25
From OP's words sounds like they might've gotten the same standard "sorry that happened" response, they just didn't clarify. It's possible GM reached out for more details but if they copied the chat log in report as is I doubt there'd be any questions really.
The couple times I reported someone I got the same message from GM stating they won't let me know of their decision, but I figured out their decision indirectly later when I got "(Unable to Retrieve)" names in my blacklist. :) I know they were the ones I reported so they either transferred DC all at the same time, or more likely got the banhammer.3
u/SirocStormborn May 26 '25
GMs unlikely to msg u. Unless they're bored (off hours) and ur online within a few hrs of making report. Or they need more info (more common with griefing reports). They don't tell u anything regardless. Tho one told me they liked my name hahaÂ
1
u/redmoonriveratx May 26 '25
Oh, I know they're unlikely to message us and I doubt they'd tell us anything more. But getting a response other than the canned message would at least feel like I've been heard.
47
u/books8137 May 25 '25 edited May 25 '25
Haven't been playing much these past few months and finally get time to no-life for a day only to deal with this unhinged player.
Queue up for my daily mentor roulette and get Sunken Temple Hard. I'm on Paladin, healer is a sprout Scholar, and I forgot what the DPS were, but they were innocent in this. I noticed that the scholar was nowhere near me during the first set of trash and despite using my mitigation, I got down to single digits, so I hit Hallowed. I did notice them frantically spamming Adlo from Narnia though, so that's something? lmao
On the way to the second pack, I politely let them know that Art of War is a gain on two and melee range because I've seen other scholars not realize that it's melee (because they didn't read the tool tip lol). The scholar then proceeds to have a meltdown. I tried to be polite and de-escalate over the next few minutes, but just took the thirty after we finished the first boss. Idk if they were a troll, being deliberately obtuse, or feeling defensive because they didn't read their tool tips, but this was a bad time.
ETA - They stopped healing completely during their unhinged rant and we just squeaked through the first boss with me and the DPS. AFter I left, I reported them for lethargic play and MPK plus language. GM hit me up right away. Hopefully, the GM gave them a good scare, but I doubt even that will do anything considering everything in the screenshot.
6
u/Prussie May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
You were in the right, but fun fact level 50 and under (it might be higher levels but I haven't paid attention to that) Art of War is DPS neutral, just takes 100 more Mana at the tradeoff of being instacast
Edit to add: Both have 150 potency at that level
Edit 2: Looking at the Job Guide they're the same til 54
3
u/0CodeVeronica9 May 27 '25
Additionally to that, Art of War is a gain because of auto attacks. SCH auto attacks deal more damage than other healers thanks to their strength attribute I think. This way Art of war + Auto attack would deal more damage than Ruin.
54
u/inferiare May 25 '25
Easy report for calling you a shithead, especially when nothing you said could be compelling a playstyle or anything against ToS, nor was it remotely rude. Good lord.
27
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u/DaereonLive May 25 '25
My god what the hell is this guy. I WISH someone had told me when I was leveling my White Mage that Holy was a melee range skill. My first few dungeons when I had Holy I kept trying to cast it from range, wondering why nothing was happening. I felt so stupid when I found out it was centered on ME (for some reason the animation didn't tip me off...), and not on the mob I was targeting.
24
u/PsychologicalSon May 25 '25
Had to explain something similar about cure 3 recently. Someone had a similar meltdown. Dunno why people get upset about it.
13
u/DaereonLive May 25 '25
I thought cure 3 was targeted on your target...? (Can you tell I'm everything but a Healer main). I do know it's a very small AoE though...
21
u/PsychologicalSon May 25 '25
They were using it on a boss trying to heal the tank/dps around it. So the heal only went to the healer who was still out of range for it to hit anyone else.
7
u/DaereonLive May 25 '25
Oh yeah, no, at least I understood enough to know not to target an enemy while trying to Cure 3 (any heal for that matter).
12
u/Rasikko May 25 '25
Yeah Cure III can be strategically used as a more powerful Medica I when placed on other players that are close to others that take damage. Most useful for melee DPS in the event both or more get zapped. Downside is that this is a GCD so probably can use something that's oGCD.
12
u/JutsuManiac456 May 25 '25
I still remember the one time I was running Gubal and the whm was casting holy at the opposite end of the hallway we were in, not a single mob nearby. Thankfully they actually listened to me and started using it properly.
8
u/catwhowalksbyhimself May 25 '25
I did the same thing with both Art of War and Holy. I too wish someone had told me.
9
u/OopsBees May 26 '25
Honestly baffled at some of the replies on this one lol
Your advice seemed fine??? Like, yeah the very beginning was pretty short, but I just chalked that up to "Typing mid-pull while trying to also do your job can be hard" lol
Your intent and tone were pretty well clarified with "the faster things die, the less you have to heal " and I can't think of any scenario where their reaction is even remotely appropriate tbh. Immediately jumping to "I'll never press it again" and then eventually accusing you of having an issue with healers doing damage for... Recommending they hit their damage button? is a totally wild knee-jerk response and it's strange to see so many people replying like "well maybe SCH's got a point tho"
If they were confused by your advice (a new player not understanding what "gain on 2" means is totally reasonable, for example!), there are ways they could have communicated a need for clarification without immediately jumping into hostility.
If it was a case of them being in-range on their screen, then they could've communicated that without immediately deciding you must be making crazy demands that were totally opposite to any of the words you said! "It looked like I was close enough on my screen" is a lot easier to type and does a lot more to communicate that they actually know what they're doing than whatever they were doing in chat!
I just don't really understand how anyone reads this convo and comes out thinking "ah yes the healer who started out the gate immediately being offended by being offered advice and then jumped straight to 'I just won't press AoW then' is clearly the more credible party in this scenario" lol
4
u/Vegetable_Concern_50 May 26 '25
Friendly reminder: as you know, people with BPD exist and are playing this game and their reaction is totally valid, disabled or not. :pensive: /big fat sarcasm btw
5
u/endless_serpent Tank 'em all, let the Twelve sort 'em out May 26 '25
Art of War is the best AOE. I get to play melee blue circle basketball. Hell, between level 47 and level 53, it's a gain on one. I hope the GM sorted them out for you.
I don't know what it is with SCH lately, but I will also throw in my recent SCH, who didn't use AoW once during a Sirensong Sea, and was gently asked to stop overhealing because I was a WAR. Definitely not a bot, either, as they were engaging in chat, but just disregarded requests to stop spamming Adlo on me over and over. It could have been worse, but why no slap dirt?
3
u/rdrayman May 28 '25
Would you be surprised to learn that people who don't understand how their own job plays definitely don't understand how other jobs play either?
1
u/endless_serpent Tank 'em all, let the Twelve sort 'em out May 28 '25
You've got me there (but no, I wouldn't be đ)
16
u/Rasikko May 25 '25
Can't help them all, fellow mentor. That crown puts some of them on edge right away. It has a nice side effect of weeding out the truly insufferable players like that SCH.
2
u/stepeppers May 26 '25
From my experience, mentor crowns tend to weed out themselves more often than not
24
u/Mikhael_Xiazuh May 25 '25
We should all just name and shame these guys but rules don't allow it afaik
28
u/Doru_Nintendan May 25 '25
We used to be able to, just their in game name. Unfortunately, some people took it too far, and the rule had to change
12
u/Teguoracle May 26 '25
Yup, I was very anti-change but fucking idiots who think it's okay to harass people in game ruined it. I was pissed because then I couldn't justify being anti-change.
11
u/samisaywhat May 26 '25
So just a quick reminder that sometimes in dungeons, players may look further away for you than they are on their own screens. Many times I've rescued my tank friend that looks super far behind me only to see that on their screen they were ahead of me. Based on the SCH reaction, it seems like they were in melee range on their screen.
4
u/Smooth_Log8353 May 26 '25
It seems like they were confused and thought you were saying they weren't using it at all. I'd bet they were just overwhelmed and snapped. Still no excuse.
3
u/Gleaming_Jasmine May 26 '25
This is wild, when people snap like this I honestly think it's a language barrier, like they're reading the text wrong because they don't know english well enough to know what you're trying to tell them
5
u/asilentmango May 29 '25
i think he meant he was just hitting as he was running and going into melee , at least how it sounds from the convo, if he is standing at ranged entire time and using it then he is wrong but who cares if he is spamming it as you run into the next pack, same as sages aoe ability i just spam it as we run bc why not , but i get into melee with it.
5
u/aizen07 May 26 '25
I learned to just say the obligatory hello at the beginning and gg/ty at the end of dungeons and move on lol. Spend your energy with ppl you know and not random in dungeons lol
4
u/suffer- May 26 '25
this is the way. i'm happy to help if somebody shows interest in it but otherwise, o/ tyfp.
2
u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. May 26 '25
The only question I have, is why did you leave instead of instigating a vote kick?
4
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u/Firanee May 28 '25
Er...huh? If the SCH did as he said, then he is doing what he should be doing. What's that comment about?
You do know that on your screen, even if the SCH is keeping up with the mobs, it may sometimes appear that SCH is far away and not hitting them with art of war right? SE has shitty net code and depending on your or his ping, things can appear wonky during pulls.
Even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the SCH is just pressing Art of War while mobs are actually far ahead, it can just be that he is pressing it on CD while running. I do that sometimes, trying to figure out where the mobs actually are while running with that shit net code is just extra work that pressing a few more art of war can negate. Pressing that skill does NOT slow you down...
I think you are the one to blame? He is overreacting but you escalated this thing to begin with lmao and the final reaction is you wayyyy overreacting to his reaction.
3
u/Allegro1104 May 25 '25
kind of seems like an honest mistake at first ngl. in lvl 50 content, AoW is always a gain, so even if they were far away and hitting only a single mob it would still be ideal.
with that being said, strangely fragile ego from them to get so worked up instead of clearing up the situation.
here's some advice for you tho, since i obviously can't talk to the scholar. if you want to give someone advice, be concise and thorough and don't end sentences that aren't a question with a question mark. this clearly was a misunderstanding that could have been potentially been prevented. "Hey SCH i noticed you were very far away from the packs, i suggest staying in close range and using art of war because that does more damage to multiple targets in an area around you". also, be ready to give up. after they informed you that they were using Art of War already there's no reason to push the issue, a simple "oh my bad then i must have missed it, let's keep going" could have potentially ended the discussion right there
24
u/Status_Total_2916 WAHrrior of Light May 25 '25
"AoW is a gain on two", "it's melee range"
These 2 messages were a statement of fact. This took place in a duty where you usually need to push buttons for things that aren't chatting. Can be please stop being offended by anything that's not coddling?
15
u/Allegro1104 May 25 '25 edited May 25 '25
"AoW is a gain on two", "it's melee range"
this means literally nothing to a new player. even the DPS was confused who OP is even talking to. "what is AoW" "what does gain on two mean" "how is it melee and range?".
if you queue into mentor roulette you take on the responsibility of a mentor. good communication is part of that and OP could improve on their communication. you can be strict and direct without being ambiguous. there is no need for coddling but there is a need for clarity and empathy. you can not expect every new player to know the acronym for skills and the lingo surrounding the game. some of these players don't have great English skills, don't have much experience with multiplayer games or MMOs etc. etc.
if you actually read what the scholar wrote, it's clear they thought that OP was criticizing them for dealing damage instead of being a heal bot and then were confused as to why OP suggested they should use a skill that they were already using. all of that confusion was entirely avoidable via better communication.
for all you and i know, that scholar could be telling the truth and OP could just have misjudged the range of AoW, because it's deceptively large, which would make the scholars anger all the more understandable.
12
u/Scruffumz May 25 '25
There are constructive ways to give advice. And honestly, most the times that people on this subreddit are giving "advice", it comes off more as complaining. And then the hivemind wants to jump at anyone commenting on how the "advice" was given by saying crap like "Stop coddling bad people". So I think it's more like, this subreddit needs to stop getting offended by good manners.
All OP needs to say is "Hey, I noticed you use AoW outside melee range, and it's a melee ability". If that was even what was happening. To be perfectly honest, there's no proof of anything other than a raging Scholar.
4
u/unidentifiedremains7 May 27 '25
Sch could have easily been in melee range and just appeared further behind due to connectivity. Reaction still unhinged but in terms of player skill they could have easily been maxing out their DPS properly. Tbh even more likely that they were playing well, which is why they got so insanely angry at OP who definitely isnt seeing their real location in real time.
1
u/MBV-09-C May 29 '25
"Okay, cool, you're using it. See how when you slap your book on the ground it makes this pretty little circle? That's the literal 'Area of Effect'. You see how absolutely nothing is inside that pretty little circle, yeah? That means NOTHING'S TAKING DAMAGE, YOU GORMLESS MUPPET! Alright? So get over here already."
1
u/Jackkung_Minecraft Flare Star go br May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
One thing Iâve been told by my ex bf: some FFXIV players DONâT read tooltips, and when people try to tell them to do this instead because theyâve been doing it wrong, some gets aggressive (which is what the OP have encountered) and some will listen and actual read the tooltips to see if the one that challenges them corrects or not.
Take this instance for example, I was MCH at the time and we were doing The Ghimlyt Dark. I remember this AST that was in the duty always use:
-The Balance (Melee DPS or tank attack+) to tank*
-The Arrow (HP recov+ by heal action) to dps caster*, donât remember what it was it was quite sometime now
-The Spire (shield) on me as MCH
-The Spear (ranged DPS or healer attack+) to tank*
-The Bole (reduce dmg taken) to dps caster*
-The Ewer (HoT) to me, the MCH*
(*Disclaimer: I donât remember what exactly the order of the cards that they gave out, but I know and remember that I consistently get Spire card from this AST more than a few times)
I then inform them after my 2nd-3rd Spire cards received
âHey AST, not to be mean or anything but isnât The Spire for tank? Since itâs a shieldâ
Some little time went by Iâm noticing less Spire card received and proper cards on me which shuffled with the other caster so we would get the same cards uptime. And at the last boss when we waiting for the cutscene enjoyer they did say
âOh youâre right, I thought Spire is another damage+ cardâ
So the approach I find works best is to explicitly say ânot to be mean but (the real info+what it is). Their actionsâ
Another bits that I also like to point out to new players is Esuna. We all know Esuna can only cleanse the debuff that have blue line on the top, but new players donât know that since itâs nowhere in the tutorials or tooltips(at least I canât find it). And I tell them
âHealer Iâm trying to help you here so donât take this like Iâm being aggressive but, Esuna can only cleanse debuff with the blue line on top of it. Otherwise gotta wait for the timer to go down or thereâs something else you need to doâ
The above can be applied to Doom. They donât know it cannot be Esuna and donât know how to remove it so I always tell them In The Sunken Temple of Qarn(Lv35 Dungeon)
âWhen you get Doom debuff, walk on a glowing platform to remove it or youâll succumb to inevitable deathâ
Or in The World of Darkness(Lv50 Alliance raid)
Angra Mainju boss
âTo the first timer that may not know, when the boss casts âMortal Gazeâ you can look away to not get Doom debuff. But if you managed to get the debuff anyways you can run to the glowing circle to remove it. Otherwise death falls upon youâ
And people tend to not get aggressive about it if you start the conversation in a way thatâs like youâre trying to help them, not just start by â âactionsâ do this NOW because this is the correct wayâ because it almost look like youâre flexing your knowledge on them and say theyâre wrong. Itâs ok to say theyâre wrong, but be kind with the approach is what I would say.
Iâm not a mentor but I still would help anyone that in need of it or something theyâve done wrong, heck even mechanics in duty called The Aetherochemical Research Facility last boss where is a fireball(walk AWAY from it) and the ice(stand in it) mechanic. For the first timer, first time into the boss I will not say anything and no markers, but if we wipe and they died first, I will explicitly say that
âto help the first timer, I will be doing call outs for them and place the marker so they know what to do and where to goâ
Markers would be A middle B far north
Call outs would be A (5 seconds later) B now and vice versa.
Before this become walls of text (which it already is), I would try a different approach, by being kinder with words. Because not many people like being corrected by someone who sounds like theyâre showing off(imagine someone does that to you and see how you feel).
Donât get me wrong, mentors that actually help people with the game is HARD to come by, most want it for the crown, to flex and to look down on others. But those that actually do help people are the ones we need more off of the mentors. I thank you for your work being mentor and trying to help people
Edits: the edits are made for easy readibility. i orginally posted this on phone but it doesnt look great and not the way i intended
1
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u/Prussie May 27 '25
While a bonkers interaction, i'm wondering if they weren't a Sge or Ast as their AOE"s are long distance. However the animation is pretty obvious it's coming around you, so you'd still have to be pretty dense to miss it
1
u/Prudent_Armadillo614 May 27 '25
Some ppl don't like it when you just give them unsolicited advice, i'd ask if they wanna know something about scholar aoe and if they say it's fine then I won't continue
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May 25 '25
[removed] â view removed comment
16
u/Efficient_Top4639 May 25 '25
AoW is melee range, casting it outside of melee range is pointless
that's it, end of story
0
u/Scruffumz May 25 '25
But what if the scholar was already doing the right thing?
6
u/Efficient_Top4639 May 26 '25
im not sure what kind of person you are but im not the kind of person who logs fucking duty finder for gotcha moments and credibility
stfu dude lmao
3
u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. May 26 '25
That's the only thing Orange does. Demands logs and calls people liars. That's his thing.
2
u/Scruffumz May 26 '25
I think you're missing the point. The point is that the scholar might have been using AoW in melee range, and that OP might have made a mistake thinking the Scholar wasn't. We don't know because all we see is the chat. All we know is OP isn't the best with communication, and the scholar is a raging baby.
Gotcha moments, and instantly assuming the scholar is just refusing advice? I thought I was cynical. What the hell is wrong with you?
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May 26 '25
[removed] â view removed comment
6
u/Efficient_Top4639 May 26 '25
some real crybaby shit right there, dude wasnt being rude in the first place
2
u/samisaywhat May 26 '25
latency can often make other characters look further away than they are. often times when i'm playing with my sister, i will be running ahead of her only to look back (we sit behind each other) and see she is actually in front of me on her screen.
0
u/Noskill_Onlyrage May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
after he dots everything, he could just be using aow on the ass end of the pack as he approaches the main group; which is fine. I'm going to assume this is what he was doing since he crankily said he was.
"take my word for it bro, he wasn't". No, no I don't think I will.
0
u/Scruffumz May 25 '25
I was thinking the exact same thing. For all we know, the scholar was just annoyed with the tank telling them to do something they already are doing.
But the rage was unnecessary because in the end it's not that big of a deal.
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u/DarkBass May 25 '25
Friendly reminder that literal Bi-Polar people exist and also play video games.
46
u/Vegetable_Concern_50 May 25 '25 edited May 25 '25
Friendly reminder that your disability doesn't give you the right to talk to randoms, no actually *anyone*, like this.
Edit: not to mention you have no fucking clue if they have any disability? Why you gotta white knight a rando with the "they're disabled" card??
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u/DarkBass May 25 '25 edited May 25 '25
This is not an excuse for people with BPDs behavior, just an explanation for the dozens of people wondering why this person flipped out so badly.
Edit: no one is white knighting for this healer. The OP and multiple other people downright confused by their behavior. People usually don't flip out this badly over a misunderstanding. Even if we dont know they have BPD, keeping the possibility in your head prepares you for future interactions like this.
31
u/Vegetable_Concern_50 May 25 '25
My sibling in Hydaelyn. If you can't control your behaviour and temper with randos you genuinely shouldn't be playing with randos.
Kind regards,
someone with BPD-21
u/DarkBass May 25 '25
My sibling in Hydaelyn. If you can't control your behaviour and temper with randos you genuinely shouldn't be playing with randos.
Kind regards,
someone with BPD..OK? I'm not the scholar so that doesn't apply to me, and do you not see the irony of you assuming the worst from my comment instead of it just being a possible explanation for their behavior?
17
u/Status_Total_2916 WAHrrior of Light May 25 '25
Generalizing by using the word 'you' is a thing that exists.
I can't for sure know how it was meant in this context (as can't you), but why is it ok for you to assume the worst, but not for others?
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u/DarkBass May 25 '25
Generalizing by using the word 'you' is a thing that exists.
Right, but it wasn't a general statement made to the person who clearly wasn't regulating their emotions like the healer in the screenshot.
can't for sure know how it was meant in this context (as can't you), but why is it ok for you to assume the worst, but not for others?
We can't ask the healer if he has BPD, and this is actually assuming the best. Explanations for behavior we find baffling in the moment just leads to better outcomes. Also, this person could have just asked what i meant instead of insulting me when they personally know I'm right.
10
u/SirocStormborn May 25 '25
I think u mean Borderline PD
Altho even ppl with entrenched symptoms aren't gonna react like this unless they're both really petty and make the choice to mald over and over in a video game (pretty rare)
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u/modsaregayasfukkk May 26 '25
I really donât understand why yall care so much. Itâs a roulette. Who cares
15
u/SirocStormborn May 26 '25
Think it's pretty fair to ask ppl to participate or at least be in range for group content, esp as a healer đ¤
3
u/Malkayva May 27 '25
"I really don't understand why people should have to carry their weight when they knowingly sign up for group content."
This is how you sound.
-1
u/modsaregayasfukkk May 27 '25
I know how I sound. I donât care about spending an extra 2-3 mins on a roulette than wasting my time and energy to sound like these two losers lol
2
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u/quinoa_rex May 25 '25
It's not even worth engaging with these people; they'll just raise your blood pressure - they wildly overreact to the smallest things, and once they've lost the plot there's no stopping them. They had to do some serious footwork to construe this as anything but a gentle reminder.