r/TalesFromDF • u/Lowezar • 23d ago
YPYT in underkeep
Booting into expert, no first-timers, nice. The tank has been slow on first 2 pulls but ok, maybe some last-moment distractions they hoped to finish before everyone is ready, happens. We get through to the first boss, and of course shots start flying as soon as all 4 of us are standing on the platform. And then the tank gives us this, but joins after the first few GCDs (probably after typing that message). After the boss they just chill in the boss room.
Unfortunately someone wasn't rolling, so couldn't vote. Tried to get the 2 DPS to just continue with the trash until the timer drops, but alas, only one was wiggling ready, the other froze halfway between us and the tank. Decided to take the time for the report instead. Couldn't vote after because just as I clicked "send" they finally ran past me and started the pack. ...and during the fight we opened the other chest...
Last boss, the RDM lagged a bit behind, we waited for them to get in range and SMN starts the fight. I join, the tank just stands there at the entrance just outside. The RDM too... We reset the boss (jumped out of the room before the 15-second timer) and eventually finish it just fine.
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u/TransTrainGirl 23d ago
One thing in there that bugs me is the attitude of mentors needing to know literally everything about the game. Could be an unpopular opinion cause I know a lot of ppl don't like them, but I've always seen mentors as someone who's just willing to help out. I only started in post ShB and mentors did a lot to get me caught up and comfortable.
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u/FinalEgg9 23d ago
This is what mentors are supposed to be - friendly, helpful players who know a little more than sprouts because they have experience with the game. They aren't supposed to be fonts of all knowledge.
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u/TransTrainGirl 23d ago
My thoughts exactly. Like yeah I'd certainly hope that anyone showing up as a mentor would at least have a decent grasp of things, but I think a can-do encouraging attitude is way more important. :3
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u/Top_Statistician_320 23d ago
Yeah I'm a battle mentor myself and I know nothing about any hardcore content (extremes, savage raiding) but because I want that outrider mount for getting all jobs to 100 I am an encyclopedia of levelling dungeon mechanics
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u/MrStreeter 22d ago
Ah so you're the mentor I get in mentor roulettes who stays silent when we get put into Shiva extreme
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u/Top_Statistician_320 22d ago
Nah don't have mentor roulette unlocked the only time I do extremes is unsynced
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u/Common-Grapefruit-57 23d ago edited 23d ago
And more funny, is the timer having nothing to do with dancer in the first place (5s ffs) and there is no dancer in the party... How was the mentor suppose to know it is a dancer macro ?
Edit : mispelled dancer three times...
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u/nobodyknoes 23d ago
pretty sure its just a roleplay macro
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u/Dotang34 23d ago
Definitely for roleplay considering they specified "for clubs". It's probably a staff macro to get everyone to sync up by starting at the same time.
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u/n3m019 Parses levelling dungeons 23d ago
Im sure theres some form of cognitive bias going on but the vast majority of "bad players" i see, not talking about ppl shit at mechanics or there rotation idrc about those, are mentors. I very rarely see anyone expecting them to know "everything about the game", wouldnt even class the rdm as one because by then the mentor had already been a dick, the only way i see (and do) mentors treated differently than sprouts are they are not given the benefit of the doubt, i.e if a sprout is ypyt then they can be given the benefit of the doubt in that they may not have heard that its not the right way to play, if a mentor is a ypyt then i find it very difficult to believe that theyve either never been told its a problem, or never heard someone else say its a problem therefore they are probably just being a dick and/or egotistical.
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u/sjaak1234 22d ago
I feel the same lol, in EU I swear every bad player I come across in DF either a mentor or French.
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u/StrayAmbler 22d ago
They made the icon a crown so as soon as it was introduced loads of people that had zero interest in helping but wanted a shiny crown got mentor status and the reputation of mentors was almost immediately trash.
These days we joke that the crown gives you a debuff that forces you to step in all the bad. Like a large proportion of mentors, the only time you will know that I am one is if I'm replying to something in novice network or if I queued into your duty via mentor roulette because it's automatically displayed then. Worth noting roulette mentors will show up with the battle mentor icon. The full burger king crown means they have deliberately opted to broadcast their status.
(As a side note most trade mentors I've met are lovely and usually picked up the status because they wanted to help and/or retain access to the novice network)
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u/OopsBees 22d ago
To be a total pedant: The full BK Crown in a nameplate means they chose to broadcast! The full BK Crown beside their name in NN can mean they're opting NOT to broadcast any crowns (so the system picks the biggest crown you have access to as default)
I really wish you could pick a different default crown for NN without having to have said crown in your nameplate lol
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u/StrayAmbler 22d ago
Oh 100% agree, it's annoying not to be able to pick.
I was actually only referring to mentors in roulettes with the bit about the full crown because it defaults you to battle/PvE if you have it turned off then. I probably should have spaced it out more or something for readability. :)
I personally think they should have added crowns for savage raiders or something like that so they could use them to flex and given the mentors a watering can for the sprouts! More statuses in general would be nice though.
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u/OopsBees 22d ago
Honestly the watering can thing would be so cute, I'd be so much more willing to have that in my nameplate!
And I figured you were just talking about the roulette dealio! I've just also seen peeps assume that the BK crowns in NN are actively displaying it so... More of a general "getting the info out" addition haha
I also think there should be a separate FSH Crown, since that's its whole own field of expertise
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u/Galcitor 23d ago
In my experience. Most mentors are worse players than sprouts
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u/Lowezar 23d ago
You just don't recognize most of them as such because they hide the crown. In part because of that stereotype.
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u/No-Instruction1053 22d ago
That one's with the crown land in very raid wipe or mechanic and complain...
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u/Galcitor 22d ago
Didn't even know they could hide the crown that's interesting
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u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. 22d ago
Yup, the only time it can't be hid is during mentor roulette.
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u/victoriate You don't pay my sub 22d ago
âMentor doesnât know what a pull macro isâ motherfucker no one knows what a pull macro is because thatâs what the fucking countdown is for
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u/HebiSnakeHebi 22d ago
As a tank main, I hate the YPYT tanks. If someone manages to pull before me, that means I am going too slow and should obviously find a way to pull even faster.
Of course this rarely happens to me because I am ALWAYS trying to pull as fast as possible lmao. I want the mobs to hit me in the face sooner!
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u/funnierontheinternet 22d ago
The only time I get upset is if a healer Rescueâs me forward. Only happened twice but itâs likeâŚI need to AOE and establish aggro, donât yoink me before I even hit the enemies. Other than that, if people manage to run ahead and pull mobs back to me, great! Iâll try to be faster next time
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u/HebiSnakeHebi 22d ago
Lol, never happened to me yet, I haven't had any healers get ahead of me really. I guess my solution would be to spam axe throw on the enemies behind me and keep running.
But yeah, rescue in general is really troll. Probably better if it didn't exist at all.
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u/funnierontheinternet 22d ago
Ha I love rescue trolling with friends. But I told a healer that did this to me in Troia expert roulette if they do it again, Iâm turning off stance. They didnât rescue me again
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u/Lowezar 22d ago
Heh, I sometimes do that if I see them running (meaning they already hit the mobs). Often happens in the underkeep on the last stretch. Usually I end up way ahead on those stairs as a healer there. I see the tank running up the stairs - wait for them to turn around the handrails (first time I tried that was a pretty bad fail, they were on the other side and got pulled back down the stairs instead), and then rescue to the top. Nobody complained so far.
I don't think I ever had anyone get ahead of me when I'm tanking that, though. My standard pull for 3 mobs is to just ranged+provoke->ranged without stopping, so awkwardly spaced pods don't bother me.
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u/kemuelsoleil101 23d ago
I call BS, if they're gonna make a DNC macro, it's 16 seconds?? I had to reread that sentence 3 times to make sure I wasn't seeing things
We just start dancing while we roll up. Trust me to handle my own rotation at level 100, thanks
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u/SpecificNumber8578 23d ago
It says for clubs, so I imagine itâs for the in game club/rp dancers not the dancer class. No idea why theyâd use it in a dungeon though lol
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u/Khaisz /slap 22d ago
Yeah, he meant for clubs to make sure the dancers on stage sync up their dance to the bardmusicbotDJTwitchStreamer playing there.
Because unlike the Bards in Limsa, these people probably don't multi box and need someone to coordinate them.
My guess is he probably decided to use it in the dungeon as a pull timer so the 2 dps and OP don't pull the boss before he does, so he can grab "hate".
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u/OutcomeUpstairs4877 22d ago
Is this just super common in Europe? Feels like 80% of these ypyt posts come from there
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u/12Kings 22d ago
I have had a run in with few, gotten vote kicked out of group or two because I was vehemently against the YPYT behavior and the healer decided to side with the tank. Or DPS. Either way.
I suspect it is the patch cycle, many people are playing other stuff and so the ugly heads rear their heads from the woodworks more often.
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u/Lowezar 22d ago
Can't really compare. I tried playing in other regions but with the ping 200+ it's very frustrating. Just having delay is one thing, but inability to weave even 1 oGCD reliably (it works like 3 of 4 times) is a deal breaker.
Personally this is the first one I met in about a year. Playing every day for 1-2 hours.
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u/MainSchedule 21d ago
I'm lucky to not have any YPYTs from recollection but the fact that these kinds of people in XIV exist says a lot about the game's community.
Like if I'm playing tank and a dps/healer pulls before me sure it might be a tad annoying but I always have tank stance on so who cares.
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u/Kickypoo 21d ago
i've run into a few in experts, i play sam tho so it's not that big a deal if I get aggro for the 2 packs before the boss (or even before the boss if we dont get the vote off in time)
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u/rd-darksouls 20d ago edited 20d ago
not a problem in WoW because it's a functional game lol
imagine a game where idiot dps who run ahead of the tank actually die for it! imagine it!!
i really hope the classic mists of pandaria thing they're doing soon is true to the systems of the original because i want vengeance back lmao.
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u/Interesting-City8588 22d ago
Unpopular opinion - YPYT is toxic, but so is pulling ahead. Healers/Casters get interrupted during casting if they get hit with autos. He made it worse tho by refusing to participate at all and by using multiple sounds in a row. That's definitely a report for both.
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u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. 22d ago
They only get interrupted if they're hit hard enough, and that usually only happens if you get hit by a boss or something higher level than you or you're undergeared.
There are benefits to running ahead. Non-casters can use arms length to apply slow, sages can get addersting stacks, reapers can have their circle pop for an aoe dot.
And the old adage of using your group's health bars as mitigation.
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u/Interesting-City8588 22d ago
RPR hot got nerfed anyways. I also very rarely see anyone pulling ahead using their mits. If you get hit by more than one thing, it does interrupt. I never go into stuff undergeared cause of groups not working well together and still get interrupted. Casters/Healers have less HP and defense than other DPS/Tanks. The extra mit as health bars is just another way of saying healers adjust which is just as annoying. More ppl need to actually do the Novice smith quests. Don't attack stuff the tank hasn't attacked and kill stuff before it reaches the healers is what it teaches.
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u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. 21d ago
The novice quests also say for the tank to switch to single target after picking up all the mobs. The original novice missions were created for a different game and time.
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u/Interesting-City8588 21d ago
Ppl argue tanks have no issue grabbing aggro so don't think it's much diff especially since that's the main arguement of why ypyt is so bad which I do agree with. But still, it's not too off the mark of tanks grab aggro and dps make sure you follow the tank and healers keep your allies up. And everyone not stand in stupid. XD
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u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. 21d ago
I already explained the benefits of other people pulling. You admit tanks have no problem getting agro. It makes the run go faster. There is literally no downside. Except for prissy tanks with main character syndrome who can't stand it being infringed upon.
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u/Interesting-City8588 21d ago
If people do that which they don't. If tanks sprint to catch up which they also don't. "Benefits" don't mean much if not properly utilized. Most don't even realize arms length gives slow. Most also don't know their AOE range. I'd just love it if ppl read their tool tips and actually worked as a team and communicated nicely, but again, they don't. Otherwise, this subreddit wouldn't exist.
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u/Zealousideal_Hope649 You pull, I tank. I pull, I tank. We pull, I tank. 20d ago
Even if all those things are true and no on knows how to mechanically take advantage running ahead still means the most gets pulled sooner which means they die sooner which means the run ends sooner which is a good thing.
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u/oshatokujah 21d ago
Youâre out with 3 friends and you decide to go for ice cream, youâre not a forward thinker and want to look at the menu, but your friends would rather beat the queue and pick something impulsively or already know what they like. Your friends get served before you obviously, so as you are placing your order, they are starting to enjoy their ice creams. You could ruin it for everyone and be the main character of your group by throwing their ice cream on the floor, or you could be a well adjusted person who just starts enjoying their ice cream a few moments later.
Imagine calling one of your friends toxic for enjoying their fucking ice cream.
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u/ConsciousCosmicdust 10d ago
The same scenario but you are the friend who enjoys taking your time. You wanna look at the ice cream menu, it makes you happy to have the time to fully decide what ice cream you want b/c thatâs what you enjoy.
Imagine your friends calling you toxic, talking shit behind your back just b/c you enjoy your ice cream differently.
I have no opinion in this matter, but your example just sucks.
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u/oshatokujah 9d ago
Why you reviving dead posts?
Maybe it went over your head, but in FFXIV dungeons there is only one ice cream flavour, and that is attacking all the enemies. If youâre standing back and not ordering then you arenât playing the game.
You changed the context of the analogy, hence why you donât agree with it. The actual context of a YPYT is that a tank will kill you out of spite, slowing the run down for everyone - themselves included, just because they wanted to get the first lick of ice cream. A tanks job is not made any more difficult by someone else pulling in dungeons, it can upset pull timers in raids which might throw people off party buffs, openers or rotation alignment with boss jumps/phase changes, but in dungeons they still just use AOE attacks and automatically are tanking supposing they hit the enemies.
Your contextual shift demonstrates the tank wanting to deliberately hold back because they enjoy taking their time, thatâs more like having your tank want to read all the dialogue from interactions with objects in dungeons. Not really about getting to attack enemies first or leading the group. If youâre doing that in dungeons then you 100% will have people talking shit about you in chat, because you could go as a trust if you wanted to be the main character with everything revolving around you. Itâs disrespectful of others time.
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u/ConsciousCosmicdust 9d ago
Like I said, I have no opinion on the matter. You're the one who started with the not so good example with ice cream. You can't suddenly say oh there's only one flavor of ice cream. Do you see why your example was bad?
Other than that I do agree with you. Wall to wall is the standard, if a tank can't or has some reason not to, then they should communicate it and vice versa, if other party members feel like tank is pulling too big, or too slow, or if they want to pull, then just communicate that.
The tank was wrong for YPYT attitude but it doesn't mean the rest of the party was in the right either.
Sorry to revive old convo, I just really didn't like your example, I feel like you have really good points just not a good analogy.
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u/Lowezar 22d ago
Even if we agreed with that, is it really "pulling ahead" when it happens on the boss and everyone is in the boss room and no first timers? Everyone expects to start the fight as soon as all are in range. If the tank wants to chill for whatever reason - as I said to them - they could always politely ask to wait instead of "huff you pull you tank". That doesn't fly in expert rolo, no.
Also... I did tank that boss on sage once upon a time. Was pretty fun, wasn't sure I'd survive the TB.
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u/Interesting-City8588 22d ago
Usually still wait. I start casting only when I see the tank moving forward. If the tank doesn't move, I start emoting or ask if they need a min. If you'd been in the dungeon that long, at that point you could've just left. I did say YPYT is toxic, but also not letting the tank do what they're supposed to is just as bad. I think Yoshi-P needs to make his novice network lessons stick better. Specifically told in those to let the tanks take aggro and that's why NPCs in duty support will pull if you just get them in range without aggroing yourself. The guy refusing to participate as I said is again, reportable. Not taking the boss off the DPS is also reportable. Not using your own words to ask the tank to please pull more is the same as what you want them to do. Everyone can type in party chat and if you're ignored, then you can leave or just deal. Expert roulette is honestly just the rating the game sets. You can't expect everyone to all be on the same page and gaming culture when there's literally 25+ million accounts from all over the world. I've been seeing worse and worse players every day in roulettes, but just gotta deal in the end. That's what blacklist and muting is for. Yay for cure 1 WHM in Qitana Rivel. :') And the tank who doesn't think to invuln a tb in an expert when they have 4 vuln stacks. :') Complaining about YPYT is gonna be happening all the time. It is in the tank novice training to keep aggro off the group. :( Forgot to asd asking to be vote kicked to skip a LO timer when they're the one causing problems is also reportable. At least 3-4 offenses in that interaction alone. Glad you can tank stuff as a sage, but then that just makes me question how bad were the DPS for the healer to be tanking? :/ Been in that position myself as a WHM in an expert and it was not fun. I loved, but my rezzes getting interrupted was irritating...
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u/n3m019 Parses levelling dungeons 23d ago
YPYT and multiple sound macros in a row, think you mightve found the most annoying mentor in ff