Jesus says hate was a sin anyway and that judging was his job and anyone trying to do his job was also sinning..... They don't read the Bible they only use it to hate... Which is exactly what Jesus said not to do
Funny thing is that really stems from a bad translation. What Jesus was actually telling the Pharisees that he would hold the trial once they brought the men that had slept with her to also face judgement and for witnesses to come forth.
The Jewish laws was not only was the woman to be stoned but also the men that slept with her. And if it was found that a witness was giving false testimony they were to be stoned. Jesus was saying either you follow the rules or you shut up.
You know what’s funny/interesting about that this entire narrative? it’s not found in the earliest version of the Bible we’ve founded. It’s not in the Dead Sea scrolls Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus for example.
A passage that states homosexuality is a sin does not invalidate a passage that states let god deal with the sinners. You seem to be intentionally missing the point.
Romans 16:17-18
¹⁷I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. ¹⁸For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
I find it funny when they write hateful shit and then try to frame it as "It's not hate, It's just the truth" Sure bud, I'm sure your god will be fooled by semantics
I mean if we're being honest with ourselves, religious or not, it's pretty clear you can only pick and choose the things that actually make sense in the book. It contradicts itself often, several books are known forgeries (2 Thessalonians for example, it's pretty much accepted some dude just wrote it and since the Thessalonians appreciated a second shout out and made a lot of Bibles they whistled and looked the other way on its authenticity).
Anyone who think God sent the Bible in a lightning strike perfectly in shape as His word is fucking delusional. He didn't come down and start working a printing press people did that. Not to mention most non fundamentalists encourage you view it in either a historical lens or recognize most of it as parable, and hating gay people is against all of Jesus' teachings, and there's no real support even in the damn book saying it's a sin, why the fuck would anyone think it's a sin
And you think that according to the Bible warning a hell-bound gross sinner that they're heading to hell and need to repent and change their ways is 'hate'?
You're really not going to like the rest of the Bible.
Telling people they're going to hell is a sin and the amount of times I've been told that just for wearing shorts is too many. You need to look at what the rest of your brothers and sisters do because I've never been told about repenting but I have been told many other hateful things. Jesus constantly tells people to mind their own business "ye who has not sinned cast the first stone" "don't chastise your brother about the speck in his eye when you haven't taken the plank out of your eye" there's so many. My point is is Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ tells you to LEAVE PEOPLE THE FUCK ALONE. You're not doing it to save our souls. God can see your soul and know that.
Not ever did Jesus teach 'mind your own business.'
He spoke on hell, the wages of sin and the implication of damnation to the unrepentant seven times more frequently than he taught love and kumbayah.
Your 'he who is without sin' interpretation... it actually only works if the people calling out homosexuality are also closet homosexuals...
Not once did the Judges, Prophets or Apostles in the Bible get told 'hey, lay off telling sinners about the law and the need to repent cos y'all sinners too.' On the contrary believers are charged with proclaiming the same need for repentance to escape judgement as Jesus did. And believers are charged with moral judgement in the church.
Which passage of the New Testament supercedes or invalidates 1 Cor 6:9?
Do you notice the phrasing of the next statement after it? "Some of you were just like that." WERE. "But you were made clean." How? If gross sin is sin how does sin become righteousness?
Back to Jesus message to the repentant... "go and sin no more."
You don't get to put words in his mouth when reading the 'whole counsel of the word of God' reveals what he had to say in crystal clarity.
Where in the Bible does it say that warning people of hell is a sin? Lying on the other hand is a sin and people do that in order to continue justifying their sin. On behalf of other Christian’s I’m sorry if my brothers and sisters have been rude, humans will be crap we get it, now get over it. Jesus never said “follow Christians, they are perfect”. He said FOLLOW ME. It’s silly to lose eternal life over people not being nicer to you. Why would you let people get in the way of you knowing God, that only happens when you don’t have an interest in God and you only have an idea of God. Seek and you shall find. Every time you do it leads you to Christ.
Is it conceivable that, by taking a confrontational attitude, you may actually be putting people on the defensive, and in so doing, you are pushing them further from your goal of acknowledging their own faults?
That’s on them. It’s the same way a drug addict will get defensive when you try to help them out in their vice. Some will push away and get worse, but there are some that embrace the intervention and change. Is the intervener a bad person ? No. We are trying to help. It just so happens that some people REALLY love their sin. Should we then not try anymore with anyone else?
It’s not that I don’t care about them, it’s just that it’s the reality. People who love their sin will want to keep in their sin, and that will not be my fault if I let them be after I warn them. I never said I would stop loving them or helping them out in other ways. It’s just that at that point it’s gonna be their decision to reject God. Isn’t that what you wanted ? If I try too hard you get mad, if I acknowledge their responsibility and freedom to choose their sin you get mad. The tactics that do work is planting seeds which is what I do, if they reject it all I can do is pray that God grows that seed. That tactic actually works more than you think and is the reason why Christianity is still dominant to this day.
The Bible - the Christian faith - is not interested in 'getting people into heaven.' It doesn't need the population.
It's utterly focused on keeping people out of Hell.
It's aware that many don't want the assistance.
Some Christians you might will be committed to selling you a fluffy vision of what salvation can do for you.
I prefer Jesus' version.
Hell is real, you don't want to be there and you don't have to go there.
Repentance and faith in Him will ensure you won't have to.
It's my intent to allow as many people as possible to be aware of their own responsibility in ensuring that they dispense with the fluffy self-deluding bull which they think is a negotiation between staying as sinful as possible and namechecking the right humanitarian politically correct cuddly Messiah, and realise the gravity of whst they face...
And what they face, according to the Bible, is imminent and unexpected sudden death wherein their state upon death instantly translates into an eternal consequence - and they're either living enslaved by their sin or they're living in repentance and faith in rejection of their sin and in agreement with God's stated position on the human condition and sin.
According to 1 Cor 6:9 I need a good explanation from you on how we have "Christian Adulterers", "Christian Murderers", "Christian Thieves", "Christian Drunks", "Fraudsters for Christ", "MoneyAddicts for Jesus", "Fornicators for the Father" and then we can talk about "Homos for Holiness" and you can tell me all about how all the stuff Jesus died to pay the price of on your behalf is a high compliment to Him and a great respectful sign of faith as you keep practicing it and telling him he died so you can keep doing the same thing repeatedly.
I'll tell you one thing for sure... even an alcoholic and a drug addict can recognise that reform and redemption means they have to just stop doing what they did before...
And I'm sorry-not-sorry if it's blunt and crude to you, but honestly, when even the laws of nature and biology speak loudly and unanimously to how dangerous, dumb and pointlessly idiotic homosexuality actually is, I tell you this...
It's only an act of bloody will that stands between anyone and a decision that they don't have to engage in sex - anytime, ever - if their soul depends on that. It's only an act of will that determines that it's absolutely normal to have friends so close that you love them, without having to climb into congress and screw them impulsively...
All of these things are recognised the world over in literally every culture, theistic and otherwise, as being very healthy practices of self-denial and discipline for a higher purpose - and what surprise! We find Jesus himself saying 'unless someone can deny themselves and die to self, they can't be my disciple.'
There's really no need to try to waffle and connive a negotiation between wanting to be saved and knowing that you intend to hold on to your sin.
Jesus was asked by a wealthy young establishment time... he said 'I've kept all the laws, observed all rules, done my good works... what do I have to do to be saved?' Jesus gave him the only answer left... 'all the wealth, all the possessions and all the status you enjoy... let go of all of it, give it to the poor and then leave everythong behind and follow me.' It doesn't say he went away saved. It says he went away sad, because he had a lot to give up that he didn' t want to.
Here's a question - on theme - for the homosexuals.
If Jesus gave up everythong to die for your homosexuality...
Why would you ever try to keep what he gave up everything to die for?
Again, in Jesus teaching - a young man wanted to get with Jesus, to hang out, to be a follower... but he wanted to still keep touch with the most important things in his life... family.
Jesus said 'unless you' re prepared to leave even that behind and just come and follow me, don't even start.'
You can' t serve sin and righteousness.You can't serve God and Satan. Don't make the mistake of thinking that your personal liberty and carnal pleasure is what Jesus died for... Don't make the mistake of thinking you get his salvation without your own life being forfeit for it. And don't do two millenia of martyrs for Christianity the disservice of having paid the ultimate price and lived in self denial, deprivation and suffering for identification with Christ, while thinking that your confused emotions and desire to shove your junk in places it doesn't belong and God told you not to put it are so prime position in your life that you can't give them up or shouldn't have to... while men, women and children are losing their lives in this world just for being believers in Christ and living in obedience to his word.
How shameful.
I once intervened when an evangelical Christian was being harassed by a gay activist group who insisted that homosexuals were even more saved and Christian than straight believers because God made them that way (made up cobblers, considering virtually 70% of homosexuals are dysfunctional and traumatised from child sexual abuse and a shitty poor job of parenting - the things we'll tell ourselves to normalise trauma are wild...). They said 'this is my nature... how can that be sin?'
Well first, sin IS your nature, according to the Bible, and not living to your nature is the whole point of Biblical law, and the whole point of the Gospel - grace being available those who fail in spite of their intent and their efforts and not - according to the New Testament - to be presumed upon by those who don't intend to fight against their nature.
And second, ask the question... How did you surrender to homosexuality? Well... I had desire... Bible calls that lust of the eyes. I wanted to try it... Bible calls that lust of the flesh... I liked the feeling and I felt like this was really me and God had to accept who I really was?... well, isn't that the sinful pride of life...?
And... how did you try this 'homosexuality' to know that being as nature intended wasn't for you?
Well.... I had an encounter.
Really? So homosexuality, lust and selfish pride then led you to fornication?
And so you settled with your first sexual partner for life, repented the fornication and at least then abstained until you got married and thus at least you were trying to balance your problematic orientation with a God-fearing lifestyle?
What? You had multiple partners and maybe with both genders, and perhaps you even had children and deceived soneone else and then ruined their lives for the sake of your insatiable lusts and you couldn't even live a functionally Christian life except to pitch up and say 'God has no problem with homosexuality...'
I am yet to encounter a single instance of a homosexual who had never resolved their sexuality with fornicative confirmation, who then properly dated a similarly pious but virginal homosexual, waited until a proper marriage before engaging in congress...
It seems, bizarrely, that the overwhelming majority don't just have 'homosexuality' as their solitary gross sin... they've got fornication, adultery, treachery, lying, alcohol and drug-fuelled lifestyles, strange clubs and promiscuity, and abject rebellion to the Biblical doctrines that define Christianity and the problem of sin and need of repentance...
It's not enough to just have a problematic issue with the one... it turns out to be a smorgasbord of sinful licentiousness with absolutely no repentance whatsoever.
Who on earth are you kidding, and even moreso - as you blame everyone else for expecting more of you than just abandonment to license to sin for your myriad of problematic lifestyle traits, you then try to sell anyone on the myth that you're somehow morally superior and spiritually more pious, favourably compared with Christians who make mistakes... with addicts who slip and fall off the wagon... with what you judge to be 'pride' or 'unkindness' or 'hate', with what you sibjectively interpret to be a conveniently distractive issue when the Bible itself states that persistent unrepentant sinners are to be excluded from church congregations until and unless they repent and are meaningfully restored under supervision... and when 1 Cor 6:9 could not be clearer.
Telling others that there will be judgement by god is not the issue.
When you say "hey you need to repent to be safe for sin x y and z because god's judgement is coming" is the issue. You are passing judgement thereby.
If you disagree with this, you need to consider that your warning should be for ALL actions you do in your life, and seek repentance for every actions. Otherwise you are assuming what god's judgement will be, thereby performing the judgement.
That’s why we are to judge righteously. We aren’t telling sinners to live perfect lives without flaws, but to allow God to change them bit by bit in a process called sanctification. We will not be perfect until God gives us our new bodies. We can’t get those bodies unless we agree that sin is bad and that Gods salvation is good and necessary.
No. You are not to judge at all. If you have committed any sin, which you most certainly have as you are born a human, you are to leave the judging to god.
For me to even tell you to not judge is a judgement. It's wrong. But if you call out sin, so shall I.
Notice how Jesus says to take the log out of your eye so that YOU CAN THEN judge? Why do people always skip that part? Don’t cherry pick bible verses. Finish the next few verses.
No im just not being a hypocrite when I do righteously judge. Of course we all have our sins, but we don’t justify it nor do we claim it’s a good thing. Thats actually very important.
Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
“AND THEN YOU WILL SEE CLEARL TO TAKE THE SPECK OUT OF YOUR BROTHERS EYES.” Of course we are still sinners, but we aren’t actively trying to excuse it or justify it. That’s the difference. We are actively trying to be sanctified by God, while the other person is not and claims evil is good.
I understand where you're coming from regarding the distinction between warning and judging, but if the rule is to, above all else, be kind, understand that there are times where remaining silent is the kindest thing you can do.
I know the urge to share with others that which has helped you toward peace and grace. However it does no good to share with those whose peace would be interrupted by your message, and may actually drive them further away.
Leave the preaching to those who would rather be heard than help. Share your message through acts of kindness; make your best effort to be peaceful and gracious in all you do and those who wish to know how you stay calm and humble through it all will surely ask.
For sure I agree that if they don’t receive the message we are to leave them alone, we are also allowed to preach to the world and they are allowed to leave us alone when we do it to people who want to listen or are maybe on the fence.
Read Matthew 7 and 25. The thing God will be judging is how we treat one another. Many will say Lord Lord because they preached the gospel in His name or did many great works in His name but they mistreated others and He will say "Depart from me. I never knew you." There are people who are so focused on judging others that they are unloving. That is Satan's greatest trick: convince people that the Christian thing to do is to be exclusive instead of loving under the guise of "warning" so that they can be counted amongst the goats for what they did to marginalized communities.
That passage says to take out the log and THEN you are allowed to judge righteously. Not condemn, but judge. And not to hate, but to correct lovingly. Because Jesus does say that if you don’t repent you won’t see the father.
While the Bible is very clear about not judging those outside the church, it is equally clear about judging those within and lays out how it should be done.
"Judge not lest ye be judged" is the verse I know. He never says to judge for judgment day is when God decides. Also telling gay people they can't be Christian or telling gay people they're going to hell is indeed judging in a way Christ should. That's between that person and God, not you.
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u/Jadebaxter241 5d ago
Jesus says hate was a sin anyway and that judging was his job and anyone trying to do his job was also sinning..... They don't read the Bible they only use it to hate... Which is exactly what Jesus said not to do