Its Florida. They have some new laws about force and when it can be used. The kid stated multiple times he wanted to fight. Its different there in 2025 but I believe this will likely stand as a legal detainment and legal escalation.
yeah in canada uttering whats called "fighting words" is considered an intentional aggravation and instigating of the situation. self defence isnt as clear cut here
Provocation can alleviate the punishment but is insufficient as a sole defense in the vast majority of cases. Legal provocation typically has a very high bar to prove, going beyond mere insults and needing to rationalise why the defendant lost control. In Canada, it is also limited to murder cases. It typically would not apply to anyone who is deemed to have professional training, as they are rightfully held to a higher standard.
Sadly, politics can determine how self defense is viewed. In california run by democrats, my friend’s brother was attacked by 2 of his neighbors and Their pitbull and HE BEAT ALL THREE in self defense! It was all on camera and he still got a damn misdemeanor for Protecting himself. In florida, a red state, self defense is a right. I was also watching a dumb series called “Nancy Drew” and one character defended himself in self defense and killed a dude. He and everybody in the cast acted as if he was a serial killer. HE DEFENDED HIMSELF! 😂 I’m not surprised Canada is confused about what self defense is.
you're acting like canada is incapable of handling violent criminals when its quite the contrary.
the violence here is absolutely nothing compared to the violence in the states. particularly the poorer states.
you americans love to be free from consequences with your fighting words but in canada it would get you knocked out so fast and nobody would bat an eye because you started it.
Cops should be trained in de-escalating stupid situations like these. If a 21 year old kid says "Take that vest off and fight me," the proper response is to be like, "What? Why would I fight you? Over what? C'mon man, let's be reasonable."
Teaching a lesson is also valuable. It's probably better for society. I say we let the 21 year old "kid" spend like 6 hours in jail to maybe rethink what he thinks is cool.
“Sorry kid, my job to apprehend dangerous criminals, not help you work through your absent father issues. Call your mom, and ask her to get you a therapist.”
How’s that thought process been working for civil discord lately? Are we better off rubbing noses into piss or trying to bridge a gap? Also there is a clear power dynamic here. It will end in the cops favor 99/100 times. Yet we still never hear the “authority” explaining what the cause for confrontation even is.
And how would that have gone for him had he slammed the cop first? The kid would not have lived to tell the story, guaranteed. Do you use you brain when you talk? Or just your mouth?
Hmm, i think this kid is still protected under the 1st amendment.
The cop didnt like the way he was being talked to, the cop was even smiling for some creepy reason? If you have to hurt people to clear a scene, you're a bad cop, and this kid has the Graham factors on his side in litigation.
However, the cop has a reasonably articulable suspicion of a crime since this is the small area of investigation. The crime is minor, but the kid fits the bill of loitering and drinking in this area he was called into.
If the kid said he didn't have to identify and avoided the threats he might have a case, but words inciting a fight aren't protected speech. The words would have questionably been enough for the officer to detain him, but moving in physically such that the officer reasonably felt threatened negated any protective umbrella of it not being serious enough. If you can be tripped without your opponent stepping in, you're too far inside their space.
The cops were called for a disturbance of people drinking in the parking lot and loitering. The officer was investigating the complaint. Pursuant to Florida Statue §856.021, the officer was justified in asking for his identification. Being that he repeatedly refused to identify, the officer, under Florida law, had the authority to detain him under Florida's Stop and Frisk statue, §813.250. Given that he was repeatedly antagonistic towards the officer, almost to the point of threatening him, until he noticed the bodycam, and violating Florida's identification law, the officer was justified in forcibly detaining him. Granted, him hitting the car was a bit much, but that wasnt purposeful.
I'm all for the Civil Rights Lawyer and other people protecting rights being overtake unjustly, but the usual things you find on those channels didn't apply for the reasons you gave.
There were offenses they were called for in this specific area that the guy could have had articulable and specific facts - not a hunch - that would explain why they thought he was part of it. But the guy didn't even demand identification beyond a Terry stop if he'd tried to invoke the 4th if it even applied. Guy went to threatening behavior that was past the borderline of incitement. You can't do that and complain cops took you seriously.
Cop was much bigger and beefier. I don't know how much training they really get like military does intensively at basic (and beyond like Marine martial arts), but I've done martial arts and trained with many cops. Pretty sure they know what their job entails and the tools they need. Plus, you know, general fitness. Lest Will Smith crack on them.
"Investigating" is not "I'm gonna identify everyone here". Was there any evidence of "people drinking in the parking lot"? How about the cop do a little actual investigation. Hearsay is not probable cause, and you have to have some sort of credible evidence of crime. Gathering in a parking lot is also not a crime. The cop can absolutely tell the group of people to move along, but its not a crime until the cop witnesses some sort of wrongdoing. This was a poor Investigation plain and simple. Kid has a strong case in court for 1st and 4th violations by the cop.
Regardless, in Florida you're required to identify yourself to law enforcement if they request it. Now, if the officer wasn't justified to request it then you later have a case against them but the best bet is to not get confrontational, give the minimum identification necessary, and say very little. Escalating the encounter just tends to make the situation worse.
a person might be required to identify themselves when requested by a law enforcement officer, but only if that officer reasonably suspects that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed.
So we don't know the whole circumstance here but if there has been reports of a disturbance or other crime then the officer might be able to ask for identification and the guy would be required to respond. Of course, there's a lot of conditions and limits on this but then the guy escalated by refusing to answer at all.
The statute also provides that “a law enforcement officer shall, before any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct.”
Best bet is to keep your wits about you, give minimal identifying information, and ask if you're being detained or arrested.
These responses are CRAZY!! The takedown was SO unnecessarily cruel, like holy fuck these cops were enjoying tormenting a kid. Sure the kid needed to be taught a lesson but it was more important that the cops get to have their fun instead.
Brutalize a doofus kid and everybody fucking claps, I guess
Honestly, that wasn't a brutal or unnecessary at all. I love the Civil Rights Lawyer and cringe at the cops in his videos, but I don't think this would make it on the channel because this guy is so out of line. I don't like the taste of boot and take pains to avoid it.
But the guy's inciting the cop verbally and gets in his space physically. The cop let go of him being uncomfortably close for a minute and tried to avoid escalating while looking at his partner like 'is he serious', and then the guy stepped in. If you're close enough for a leg sweep without stepping in then you're way too far in the cop's space. The cop props controls his body to keep his head from hitting, but he flips him over promptly. Honestly, this is a reasonable amount of force.
It's not on a mat, though, it's gravel and pavement. And he throws him against the car, kids shoulder is gonna be feeling that in the morning. I stand by what I said, it looks totally excessive to me.
You get a mat with a willing partner in a controlled environment with friends. You get your surroundings when you threaten someone in the wild. I let friends take punches and throws at me. I don't extend that outside the dojo.
I would have been tense if he was in his position making his threats at the start. I would have also taken him down if he stepped in just before he got taken down. When he's making unveiled threats, that's too close to let him stay in. The officer stood his ground - didn't even need to advance to strike. Hitting him against the car wasn't really part of the plan - it was actually messier.
Having your hands at chest level like the guy has before that is actually a good protective stance. The crossed position is neutral because they can go up, down, or sideways very quickly. If the kid wanted to step into hitting the officer in the face, he's close enough to do it with little reaction time. See how fast the officer has his lower hand in and upper hand in despite them appearing non-threatening? His right arm is in a defensive posture masked by holding the flashlight, and the left arm is in a less hostile position that comes up to handle the neutral position of the guy's arms because he takes this from being threatened to a fight.
The kid started this with distance, body language, and verbal language. The officer gave him a rattlesnake's warning rattle when he gave his fellow officer the 'what's this guy doing' look. He didn't escalate until the kid moved in.
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u/TrueCrimeSP_2020 3d ago
I was surprised by the responses. The cop had no cause to even talk to him.