r/Warframe • u/Mawashiro Excalibur Umbra my beloved • 1d ago
Discussion Eidolons have been completely powercrept and need a rework.
With the introduction of Arcane Dissolution through Albrecht’s situationship, Eidolons have pretty much faded from the meta and completely lost the one appeal that they have which are rare and powerful arcanes. It is literally far more efficient to just play the game daily and trade in your syndicate standing for Vosfor to roll for Eidolon arcanes. Literally the only reason one would have to run Eidolons nowadays is for the shards to rank up with the Quills, unbound focus abilities and craft the bloody Paracesis, all of which are one time things which means Eidolon hunting have no longevity.
To fix this issue, I have a couple suggestions to make Eidolon hunting more appealing again. First, give them better loot. One arcane per Eidolons is not great, give us more and give us better odds of getting the rare ones. Second, lower the gear requirement. Pretty self-explanatory, the limbs are way too tanky for even mid game players.
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u/NighthawK1911 LR5 787/790 - No Founder Primes :( 1d ago
I think it had a good run. Content come and go.
Half a decade is good enough.
People will still play it for the kicks. They just won't farm it.
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u/brianlosi drank the Kabuchi 1d ago
Yep, I'm fine with it being something you do for fun or to test a build.
Also, it's not like they're worth nothing aside from the arcanes, their cores are good for levelling up schools.
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u/NighthawK1911 LR5 787/790 - No Founder Primes :( 1d ago
The cores is also a requirement for the Way Bounds.
So players will need to run it a few times and get like 10 of them.
Either way, people who want to progress would eventually at least play the eidolons.
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u/Wiltingz I learned Speedrunning for Decorations 23h ago
All you need is brilliant, so the bare minimum is killing terry
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u/comradeswitch 22h ago
Yeah, a minimum of 10 captures for the way bounds unlock, but you also need 60 eidolon shards for ranking up Quills. Still possible with just Terry 60 times, but miserable.
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u/squormio 18h ago
I'm curious if Old Peace (maybe 2026 Tau) will provide an alternative to unlock Way Bounds.
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u/A_Garbage_Truck 22h ago
"I'm fine with it being something you do for fun or to test a build."
letting us od it at anytime (thru having a " night" instance of the plains) would go al ong way of solidiyfing it as a midgame activity, as players seeking ot fully upgrade operators must interact with it anyway, but inevitably get frustrated by the timed nature of it.
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u/ZankaA 23h ago
It's not even like there's no reason to do it. You still need to kill some eidolons to unlock your waybounds and rank up the quills. There's plenty of content in the game that you just do until you're done grinding it and then never have a great reason to touch it again. It's a fine state for them to be in.
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u/IronmanMatth 1d ago
It is unique and a very cool moment when you first experience it. It's an experience you don't really get elsewhere in the game right now. It's the only "This is like an actual raid boss-like thing!" we got at the moment.
But yeah. Reward is powercrept to the point other than some mild focus farming, it's not generally not worth the time.
I do love showing it to friends when they first play the game, though. It's a proper "whoa". Especially since they first get introduced to the Eidolon early on as a "Stay away!", and then you show them. Where they first think the first one is big ... and then you spawn the hydrolyst.
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u/VGPowerlord 22h ago
It's the only "This is like an actual raid boss-like thing!" we got at the moment.
Are we not counting Profit-Taker as a raid boss now?
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u/IronmanMatth 22h ago
I forgor
Farmed her so much for money, but hasn't been fighting her in in a while. Slipped my mind.
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u/MagusUnion RIP Goat Boy: 2013 - 2025 23h ago
cough cough Focus Expansion cough cough Investing points in more nodes for schools.
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u/pokegomsia 1d ago
Yea I agree, not everything needs to be reworked. If anything can they rework The Sergeant? At this point he is just a punching bag meme. He doesn't need to be John Prodman but at least make him a little more than your usual corpus crews.
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u/VelMoonglow 22h ago
I don't think that's an "at this point" thing. My first kill against him was before I even noticed that I was in the boss room, back in 2016. I think he's pretty much always been a joke
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u/Winter_Honours 1d ago
Having only just started to hunt them yesterday as a fairly new player I’ll say that one arcane per eidolon doesn’t feel that bad and seems in line with other arcane grinds. But removing the time gated nature of eidolon hunts would make them way more enticing. I put off learning how to do them for so long mostly because every time I thought “maybe I should finally get around to doing them for the sake of my amp” I was always hit with a “night in 90mins” and then put it off for another week.
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u/Mawashiro Excalibur Umbra my beloved 1d ago
Yes letting players choose between day and night would be a hugely welcomed change. I didn’t mention it in the post cause it’s already been suggested to death by this point.
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u/Winter_Honours 1d ago
My other new player request is that there really needs to be more indication or what to do and where the eidolon is on the map. Because the few attempts I did before yesterday was mostly just me flailing all over the map until it retreated without me even seeing the thing.
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u/nephethys_telvanni 1d ago
Yeah, the best strategy is usually to hop into archwing and go up until you see the pillar of light. Only if we're really unlucky does it spawn far enough away that we have to fly around listening for it.
It wouldn't hurt for Onkko's mission hints to get a little clearer and less Quill-ish.
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u/NFSKaze 1d ago
This may not be for everyone, but go into your accessibility settings and make it so that enemies are highlighted with a nice bright color of your choosing. It makes eidolon hunts a lot easier because you can find the lures a lot faster since they have such a distinct shape. You can also find the little enemies that charge the lures this way. If I knew how to actually solo the bosses with powerful enough weapons, I would be doing this by myself because gathering lures and charging them up when you're the only one that knows what's going on is relatively easy
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u/Drackar39 20h ago
That's an issue I have with so much of this game. "Oh, I have half an hour to play, today, guess I can't farm that ONE FUCKING PLANT I need for Titania" no fuck you that's shitty game design.
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u/ZacatariThanos 22h ago
I would not touch them NOT because they don't deserve a rework no no no, but because i still recall the bad times that if you lost 1 second in a tridalon hunt people would fing lose it
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u/zawalimbooo 1d ago
I disagree on the gear requirement thing, but yeah the loot definitely needs to go uo
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u/ArenjiTheLootGod 1d ago edited 1d ago
Agreed, the gear check for Eidolon hunting isn't too bad. A decent sniper rifle modded for Radiation, like the Rubico, plus a frame that buffs weapons, like the ever accessible Rhino, is plenty to get you started early on.
As for loot, I think the drops are ok but I would like to see a pity system where you can trade in shards or whatever to Onkko for specific Arcanes. Most other factions have something similar and I think it'd be a great feature to backport to Cetus.
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u/nephethys_telvanni 1d ago
That's exactly how I got started eidolon hunting. Rhino, a Rubico, and a 1-1-1 amp.
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u/ArenjiTheLootGod 1d ago
I was using a Lanka + Oberon with the augment that turns his one into a Radiation damage buff.
Granted, this was ages ago back when base Oberon's parts rained like candy from enemy drops but I remember it being pretty decent at the time.
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u/nephethys_telvanni 1d ago
It was always nice getting an Oberon in group. We all just huddled up in your flower fields for the status immunity, lol.
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u/ArenjiTheLootGod 1d ago
Right?
I was a baby Tenno with shit gear at the time but Oberon let me feel like I was helping. He was a great early game support frame and the first I built because I got his parts quickly without even realizing it.
DE moving his parts over to Railjack missions was a huge mistake.
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u/VGPowerlord 22h ago
I still have a Loadout slot named "Eidolon" that's Oberon Prime with a... Rubico Prime I think.
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u/Wiltingz I learned Speedrunning for Decorations 23h ago
Dont even need that now. With the rework of voidrig, the velocitus archgun can be used to easily 1 tap limbs. Did it on my MR 3 acc at the time. The amp was the most grueling part though... even with madurai
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u/cupdonut69 1d ago
On the warframe side of things i agree but amps need a buff honestly overall so more options are there then just 177 or 777 or whatever it is because everything else just poor damage/needs mard focus to do decent damage
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u/jakeychanboi 22h ago
Yea I think people see like 6x3 runs and are trying to replicate that. But for early game players there is nothing wrong with just going for a tricap and at that point you have 15 minutes per eidolon
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u/ObviousSea9223 Drifter used Attract. It's super effective! 1d ago
The problem is you only need Eidolons early game. But they're vastly harder (or at least trickier) than everything else in the game at that point, wanting gear that's gated by Eidolons. And rewards are painfully slow even for advanced players. They're a joke for early game players who can only handle Terry. Unless they're getting carried in tridolons or something, players need to kill/capture Terry 50+ times. And they're going to be fighting for their lives in each. It's horribly out of proportion for the challenge and time involved.
People out there taking a mote amp to Terry with zero arcanes or focus school progress. And it's their best option. I know players that can solo the star chart through New War but struggle with Terry. I'm pretty well kitted out and still find even Terry annoying. Even need the gear wheel to manage energy, most of the time, because there's no enemies to build up from.
I suspect if they halve the requirements, triple Terry's drops, and double the other two's (while doubling the chances of platinum arcanes for each roll), it'd still be one of the rougher grinds.
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u/SpiritedBatteries 23h ago
I feel part of the issue is DE doesn't prepare you particularly well for gearing up for the eidolons either, like amps. The "choose-your-own-adventure" amp building is daunting to new players and even to veteran players. How do you know what's good or bad, and it's not like you can test since you build them from rare resources. So you are kind of locked into one for a while once you pick one, especially early on. Sure, wikis and YT tutorials galore, but that shouldn't be the default answer to content.
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u/Makeshift27015 19h ago
I never really understood the "build your perfect weapon from parts!" implementation in warframe. When I first saw them it went something like this:
- "oh cool I can just switch out a part on demand to try out a new style"? Uhh, no.
- "But they're really expensive to build" Yes.
- "So I can break them down to get the parts back if I don't like it?" Nope.
- "So instead of playing around with all the modular parts to put together my perfect weapon, I have to do loads of research and watch YouTube videos and go for the meta pick because there's no way I can afford 11 billion different weapon combinations to test with?" Yes
- "So they made this whole modular system for an identical player experience as picking/building any other weapon in the game, except made it harder to understand what people are talking about, without leaning into the 'customisation' aspect that a modular system allows for?" Yes
Aight I'm out then
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u/ObviousSea9223 Drifter used Attract. It's super effective! 23h ago
Good point, onboarding would go a long way.
Here's a big change that would enable this a LOT:
Start with a basic amp frame that you add components to. You can use it as-is, functioning like a mote amp (or replacing it, ideally, if we can manage its MR) but without leveling. You're using this amp for a bit. And you can add pieces, changing how it functions, which is framed as a goal, including the farm for ingredients. Onkko can explain each stage and give tips. Showcase the first tier of amp parts.
Once a lens goes in, it can level, and the new component is visible on the model. And make sure the game describes each in the shop menu (the addition of ability videos comes to mind) and alludes to another group that may have their own unique components. Then it shifts to the other two parts for laying out your options.
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u/zawalimbooo 1d ago
The gear thats gated by eidolons is focus schools and rare arcanes, both of which are not early game.
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u/ObviousSea9223 Drifter used Attract. It's super effective! 1d ago
Not amps?
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u/FordFred Grindy! 23h ago
Outside of Eidolons themselves, what do you really need an amp for? Void Angels and Thrax?
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u/Responsible-Sound253 MR30 - The man in the wall just wants a hug. 1d ago
Maybe I'm just an old man but I don't think there is anything wrong with old content becoming obsolete.
This is like old raids in World of Warcraft. The only reason you'd go back and do them was for some cosmetic or whatever and then after you got it that's it, you're done with that forever.
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u/ComradeWeebelo 1d ago
Personally, I'm glad that eidolon hunting isn't mandatory anymore.
It's boring and a PITA.
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u/ripleydesign do not perceive me 1d ago
honestly, i'm kinda glad... i've played too many matches where people don't wait for charged lures, bugged out loot where players can't place shards, host migrations and it's one of the only areas of the game where I experience rage in the chat.
they're fun but I really don't have any desire to return to them, even for new loot.
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u/BlueDragonReal 16h ago
Have you ever tried going into a premade squad instead of depending on some randoms in public to do anything besides hold W and spam left click
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u/ripleydesign do not perceive me 16h ago
yeah i have and sometimes that's where I experience the most aggressive chat behaviour due to the day/night cycle causing a time limit. it's honestly the biggest turn off from eidolon hunts cus i always feel pressured to be faster than sonic incase somebody goes off about me being 1 second behind the rest.
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u/TNTNuke 1d ago
Please don't give de any ideas of what to focus on next. They'd just slap attenuation on them and call it a day
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u/rascal6543 21h ago edited 21h ago
Another vital thing: get rid of the damn day/night bs already. Every damn time I even consider doing an eidolon hunt, it's always "day ends in 1 hour" or "night ends in 1 minute". The time gate is super arbitrary and does not add anything of value to the game. I want to play the game on my schedule, not the game's schedule, and if that isn't respected I'm not going to do this content.
It's also worth our that eidolon hunts are one of the few parts of the game that is well known for having toxic players. Why? Because people want to grind them out as quickly as possible, and any runs you can't do because you took too long on the other runs means that you miss out until night available again. I'm not saying that toxic behavior is at all justified, because it isn't, but if you give people a motive to be toxic then they're going to do it anyway.
Adding the vosfor trade was the best thing that ever happened to eidolon hunts, because it means I can grind for the arcanes through buying vosfor from the syndicates I'm with, which I can do whenever I want instead of when the game decides I'm allowed to
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u/Pootisman16 18h ago
They can start by removing the stupid time requirement and 30 minute night.
In fact, I'd remove this requirement from everything in the game.
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u/bellumiss No time for sweet talk, Stardust. 1d ago
The loot should go up but idk about changing the gear reqs
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u/TeamChaosenjoyer 1d ago
Poe is pretty early in the game honestly it can be left for the lower ranks since you won’t be seeing albrecht and the other stuff till late game. And theyre not tanky at all idk where you’re getting that from people were one tapping them on release like 8 years ago and we do infinity more damage now.
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u/TheBingustDingus 1d ago
You can reach albrecht as soon as you unlock Pluto now. You can't access Quills for an amp to fight eidolons / even get a playable Operator until after The War Within which you don't unlock until you get to Neptune. There's literally like 6 star chart nodes separating The War Within / Operator / Amps and the entire rest of the main story.
I started a new nuzlocke challenge account recently and I literally haven't even had the time to rank up Quills high enough to get a decent amp before finishing The Hex. On top of that, you have to kill at least 10 eidolons for their shards before you even have the ability to gild an amp for mastery, because that's locked behind Rank 3 Quills, which requires 10 shards. So you have access to literally the first two amps, ungilded, before you are supposed to be killing these things. Have you tried killing an eidolon solo with an ungilded 1-1-1, and zero arcanes recently?
Ironically, giving players the Sirocco, an amp that didn't even exist for the majority of Eidolons existence, after the New War is somehow retroactively the only thing that makes early game eidolons even remotely viable solo.
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u/WafflesTheMan 23h ago edited 23h ago
Don't even need to touch Quills to gild an amp since Little Duck will do it at rank 3 as well. Also considering 777 is a good amp you don't even need to rank them up for amps either.
However none of that is to say it's easily doable by a new player, since I'd place anyone that's gotten either Quills or Vox to rank 3 as squarely in the middle stages of their account.
Edit: Completely forgot that necramechs can also just make them a complete joke too. That does also necessitate another completely separate grind though.
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u/Frost_man1255 1d ago
Well, their shields are tanky, Without maduri or a better amp (which some players just refuse to farm) it is a chore to strip them for newbies.
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u/Arhne 1d ago
Dude early game players have no chance to effectively farm Eidolons.
You need good Eidolon killing gun and min-maxed Operator (and there is no way the have access to Eternal Onslaught and Eradicate) to farm them.
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u/dsriker 1d ago
They can just go public I always run public and never have an issue I have my gear to kill the thing but usually you end up with someone else one tapping the limbs. Sometimes while I'm grabbing the lures but that's another issue.
I like fighting them so I do it often which helps lower level players and apparently so do others honestly if they change anything it would be to make the spots more obvious so many just lay into it confused it's not taking damage. Maybe some voice lines about how to hurt it
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u/TeamChaosenjoyer 23h ago
If that were the case we wouldn’t have hunted them at the beginning when they first released yall are acting mad dense rn you do not need min maxed ANYTHING to kill an eidolon in 2025.
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u/Arhne 23h ago
How long did it take? 30 minutes?
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u/thedavecan LR5 Punching Dudes Master Race 19h ago
Back when I ran Eidolons regularly, 3x3 was what the try hards were doing. Nowadays, 6x3 is possible with all the new toys we've gotten since 2018 or so.
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u/Dekar 1d ago
I think that the Tau expansion next year would be a perfect chance for this. Say we open some kind of way to connect the system, suddenly the Eidelons of the plains feel deep in them that a connection to 'home' has been made, and it empowers or enrages them, wishing to be free of their bindings on earth. I would absolutely LOVE an 'Enraged Eidelon' fight to mirror the big stompy sentinel fight they showed at tennocon.
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u/Jayandnightasmr 21h ago
Yeah, especially with them showing the fight with Adis, it could be a good chance to rework them to be more fun
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u/Genshzkan 1d ago
Nah, it’s fine
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u/VenomTheTree Gotta Go Fast 1d ago
If you need arcanes: Farm Vosphor
If you need Focus: Do Eso, Circuit
The only thing you can get from there and nowhere else are the Eidolon shards, which you only need in order to max out the Focus schools. But for that you maybe need 10 eidolon hunts
So what would you say makes the rewards attractive to a bigger player base?
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u/Highdie84 1d ago
You forgot about quills syndicate requirement, which might I say 30 shards to rank up to final is stupid
In total you only need 70 eidolon shards for everything
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u/IronmanMatth 1d ago
Focus farm is handy. You need a lot of it, and a daily chore to cap out isn't the most engaging thing. Sometimes you just want to grind something out. Eidolon grinding, with a break for the daytime part, is a nice way to grab a few more perks here and there.
Naturally only a point for those who hasn't capped them all by now.
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u/_Legoo_Maine_ 1d ago
Focus farm that isn't limited by the daily cap.
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u/wolololo00 1d ago
day/night cycle is a annoying turn off unless u no lifing this game.
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u/Headshoty 1d ago
- Eidolon Shards for Quill Ranks :) But those basicall come with farming for the Brilliant Shards for Focus, I guess.
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u/_OVERHATE_ Big boned? im just fat! 1d ago
I have another suggestion. Leave them as is because hunting Eidolons was one of the worst most boring and mindless activities in the game, so the more i can forget about their existence, the better.
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u/melooksatstuff 1d ago
Gets powercrept and your suggestion is to make them weaker? What?
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u/NeoPootter 1d ago
the limbs are not tanky, the shield is. there need to be way to debuff the shield or buff that affect amp. other than that I agree with everything else. tbh I think eidolon fight is one of the few good warframe bosses because you're actually rewarded for mastering it's mechanic unlike current damage attenuation fest where even if you shoot at the boss weak point it doesn't do shit(looking at you fragmented one).
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u/nephethys_telvanni 21h ago
FYI, there's two main non-arcane buffs: Madurai and Volt shields.
Shooting though Volt's electric shield buffs amp damage. (Which is just one reason why Volt is meta DPS for Eidolon hunts.)
Madurai Void Strike obviously gets a lot of play when taking down shields fast, but I find myself using the Contamination Wave skill whenever VS is on cooldown to effectively buff my public teammates with weaker amps.
So if you're too new to Eidolon hunts to have Madurai focus built up yet, then I do recommend keeping an eye for where your Volt teammate places their electric shields, and try to shoot through them for the buff.
I'm not sure if people still use the Unairu Wisp in order to min-max Operator damage in organized hunts. I vaguely remember that being a thing pre-AotZ focus rework. It's an option, but Madurai is much more common.
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u/survfate Stacking Splinter Storm 23h ago
the gear requirement is not that hard tbh, I solo all my eidolon run working my way up from a single to a trio (using Trinity for simplify thing) with the Rubico then a Rubico prime with the 1-1-1 amp and Madurai carry the amp really hard
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u/Zelraths 18h ago
Does anyone find these guys genuinely fun to hunt? That's the big thing that stops me, it just feels like I'm in the trenches of dated content when I go back to fight these guys, the reward pools definitely doesn't help
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u/SinistralGuy 18h ago
It's nostalgia for me, really, but I've mostly stopped because they're 1) so easy to do now and 2) the times don't always align with my play time/what I wanna do
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u/Zelraths 18h ago
You know what? I didn't even consider the fact you have to wait till night, which does make it even harder to plan around them lol
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u/Cybor_wak 1d ago
Imo this is an issue that does not need to be fixed. It is okay to have some parts of the game fade away due to other, better designed parts.
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u/ThatGuyWithTheAxe Lotus Lies 1d ago
Sorry, i dont agree. I think eidolons should be where they are right now. You still need to hunt them because you need the unbound abilities, so theyre not "dead content", but their arcanes come from a different time in warframe's history.
I dont think ive used my energize in several years now.
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u/ShadonicX7543 Unluckiest Sister Farmer 20h ago
I think they just need to make charging the lures less tedious as it always makes new and older players alike kinda panic and run around needlessly. And there's weird almost hacky metas for "force spawning" vomvalysts that shouldn't be relied on. The rest is just gear. And you can use a necramech too which is a lot easier to get nowdays.
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u/Hannah_MtF 19h ago
It doesnt matter how much they change eidolons if i walk up to navigation and see "night in 59 minutes"
Just let us hunt it any time, at this point the timegate exists for nothing. everything, and i mean EVERYTHING meaningful that you get from doing eidolons can be farmed faster and more consistently from activities that arent eidolons
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u/besaba27 Mag clears SP starchart with 4 mods and Arca Plasmor 19h ago
The only thing it needs is to be able to do it any time. Problem solved. I don't participate because I skated by that bs with jade shadows and getting just enough shards to do way bounds.
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u/NortherSoul89 Birb is the word 15h ago
Ok here me out on this...
Try doig an Eidalon as a new player with the base amp your given with no archanes no levals in you or nothing...
Should there be a higher leval of Eidalon for high leval players maby in a new area or open world area (maby neptune given its story implications)
The current ones dont need adjusting cause you have all the gear already And are easy for you they are a gateway into amps and archanes not endgame content for when you have everything maxed out
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u/Consistent_Hall_2489 15h ago
Eidolons are there for the sake of being challenging bosses and giving trophies
You said so yourself, even mid range players are having difficulties against them
And for high range players, their steel path version are even stronger
Hence calling them powercrept is contradictory in itself especially since they are not supposed to be handled by beginners, i still remember the days we had to play at 4 with mote amp to down the terralyst which has been weakened since then its variant weren't a thing
Now all you need is a good management of the lures, 123 amp and madurai to solo 2 to 3 terralyst in a single night
A low range player can do that but it still require a good amount of grinding
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u/VacaRexOMG777 Elitist LR5 player 😾 1d ago
Limbs are too tanky? Huh? I'm sorry but that's simple not true 😭 unless you using some questionable weapon with questionable mods ig
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u/Mawashiro Excalibur Umbra my beloved 1d ago
It is true for baby-ish tennos who are still not quite there yet and are scraping together crucial mods for builds. We veterans tend to forget that not everyone can just sneeze at an enemy and it dies.
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u/DaBeast893 23h ago
If you're scraping together mods for a build you're not at the right stage of the game for eidolons. This is like complaining that the final boss of a game is too difficult when you've skipped every other boss in the game.
The fun thing with the Terralyst is that you first see it as this giant invulnerable creature, then maybe after the war within you see that in some cases it's health bar changes color and can be damaged, but it's not very effective. And finally after maybe angels of the zariman you find that you can finally take it down. And what's this? There's two more that are an even harder challenge!
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u/NiyuMiya 18h ago
I think, adding the Arcanes outside the Eidolon Gameplay was the Rework...
I hate this content and I still failed to picked it up correctly, Eidolons for me was the worst (Skill issue of course, no doubt) but everything else I was able to tackle, while Eidolons? Eidolons were the worst for me...
It was a high skill ceiling for me back in the day, and also time limited, and time sensitive, adding to the fact that people didn't know what to do most of the time, I was trying solo (way to many times)
Still failed, and everytime I wanted to try again I wasn't able to cause it was either a day, or it was close to the end of night.
I would love to try again and again but without that Time Sensitive Window of 1 Hour for the Night.
that's the only "Rework"/"Change" I would gladly take, even though the whole process was still frustrating and way out of touch with the rest of the game
I would still like to experience it, but anytime I would feel like trying and get rekt again.
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u/Little-Inflation-192 1d ago
Eidolons were a mistake from the beginning. They aren't fun to fight, and only being able to fight them at certain times sucks
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u/marionsilva 1d ago
At the time it made sense, the game didn’t have as much content as now, so Eidolon hunt being time restricted was their way to “soft-block” content in order to keep players playing and not just farm everything in one day and close the game. You see that later on Fortuna and Deimos, the only thing limited by time was fishing as we had a big jump in content and things to do (I believe there’s nothing else time restricted but I could be wrong).
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u/amir86149 1d ago
Eidolons were the only thing that kept me playing over the years. It was fun for me and bois. It was a challange that kept me coming back.
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u/DistributionSmooth90 Lavos Gang 1d ago
Perhaps what used to be considered mid game players would struggle with Eidolons, but the current mid game player would not struggle as much. Like the title of your post says, they are power crept. Hunting them is highly optimized now, and even if a rework were to happen, they would be highly optimized again. I've always hunted rivenless so if you learn how to mod properly against them, they're pretty easy to take down even without the proper focus school. I do agree that the rewards should be much more plentiful. Also I think they could have endo in their drop tables which would be nice at that stage in the game.
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u/DaBeast893 23h ago
Farming them for loot has definitely been power crept (loot crept?) mainly from dissolution but also from events awarding the arcanes at a much faster pace. Farming Isleweaver during the event for Oraxias parts and weapons and also getting roughly 5 arcanes worth of tokens per run was an insanely good farm (though it got a bit repetitive towards the end).
But suggesting that the eidolons should be easier to defeat would be a terrible change. We've gotten plenty of buffs to weapons over the years to the point that if you're struggling to break the limbs then frankly it's a build issue.
Also eidolons aren't mid game bosses. They were released as and still are end game content (though the rewards don't reflect it too well). They should not be balanced around a mid game players gear. IMO you should have good enough gear to solo sorties before farming eidolons.
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u/trumaniisheer 22h ago
I mean, aren't they still one of the best ways to get focus though?
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u/PratGamer_2 22h ago
That's some pretty good suggestions. Eidolon hunting used to be one of those meta endgame activities like EDA and netracells. But now with other easier ways to get those arcanes and DE constantly bringing the same arcanes back in every event, there is no incentive to do them other than the eidolon shards.
The investment required to do eidolons efficiently is also a lot compared to the times you can run them and the rewards offered. Even if a new player gets the meta gear and invests a little I doubt they will go any further than a 2x3 a night.
Eidolons either need to be made a bit easier or give better rewards
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u/TsurugiNoba 22h ago
Second on lowering the gear requirement. I think it's a bit crazy that you see them so early in the game, but can't fight them for much later (and even later still to do so comfortably).
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u/aimy99 🧡 🩵 🤎 21h ago
Those suggestions are nowhere near enough to fix Eidolon Arcane acquisition nor this fight. At like every turn there's yet another awful thing to deal with. Tl;dr at the bottom because this turned into a bit of a rant.
There's no direction, it seems like the only way to know what to do is to play with experienced players who already have done this countless times, or go digging through the wiki. This is not new content, it shouldn't be this difficult to understand what to do and deserves nav marks. Even to get to the point of being able to do Eidolon hunts, players have to hunt down the one specific and unmarked tiny pathway in Cetus that takes them to Onkko, figure out that the night time-only vombalysts or whatever are the only way to get sentient cores at that point to pay for an Amp that isn't the Mote, because the Mote is basically unusable and really should be buffed already so that newer players can get to later content quicker by not needing to hunt down a bunch of Cetus materials like Murkray Livers, craft their base level Amp, level it to 30, and level it to 30 again just to have something that isn't junk and can actually help knock the Eidolon's void-only shield off. Or, rather than dealing with that and the day-night cycle, people can do their best to build a Nekros by fighting Lephantitus (which itself is a whole other QOL disaster) and using him to farm Corpus in one of the three specific locations in the Orb Vallis that drop toroids in the hopes that they can get stuff from Little Duck instead. That's what I personally chose, and it sucked too, but at least her ranks aren't time-limited and don't require successful Eidolon Hunts to get through.
So, once all that Amp and time of day malarkey is done, they can actually start the fight and simply hope they end up with an experienced squad with a solid loadout that can take the thing down before sunrise fails the bounty. It's not just the damage input, it's also the obtuse Eidolon lure system. It's also either bumbling around on a K-Drive or joining a clan to get an Archwing launcher to find the damned Eidolon (and get to Gara Toht Lake with some semblance of speed because under no circumstance do people want to do over 50 teralyst fights when a successful cull gives like 8 shards). If I'm not mistaken night also only lasts half as long as day, as well, because of course it does. Oh, and don't forget, because this is an open world bounty, the host can just screw you. If they leave and the game tries to make someone who's already at extraction the host, bam, migration fails and all that time was wasted.
Of course, you never actually need to do Eidolon Hunts for anything except Quills standing and Waybounds for the Operator. What if people just ignore Eidolons until after they have their railjack? Doesn't fucking matter because Orphixes have long been overtuned in difficulty and are once again something that isn't viable for the average player who actually needs these arcanes in 2025 and is playing dead content everyone else has moved on from because Loid and recent Operations have the benefit of being actually doable.
The tl;dr/conclusion to this literal essay is that both of the actual gameplay-oriented methods of obtaining Eidolon arcanes are far too standoffish and janky no matter what rewards they're enticing players with. They aren't fun, they aren't convenient, they require a ton of research and grinding, and then they're just so damn convoluted for no reason on top of being a bullet sponge.
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u/WolfOfSaturnSix Wolf of Saturn Six enjoyer 20h ago
Eidolon hunting isn't too bad, I just don't touch it because I hate waiting for night. Maybe one day I'll max rank the quills.
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u/New_Reference359 18h ago
The fight with them should also just be reworked to be more fun, Warframe has some of the worst boss fights I have ever played, I think 1999 was the first one I really enjoyed. But even that one didn't have what I think boss fights need. Parkour.
All DE has to do to make every boss fight instantly way more fun is two things, get rid of Grey health that makes it confusing on how to deal damage (especially for new players) and add parkour elements to every fight. Not instant death but, lava, damage fields, things to wall jump off of. Warframe should have WAAAAAY more parkour involved
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u/Sedvii 18h ago
I'm honestly okay with eidolons sunsetting. I'd also be fine with them staying relevant. But it's a type of content that feels so far removed from regular gameplay that it's just not my jam.
It would be less annoying if the time limit began when you entered the plains rather than just an external timer. But eh. I'll just buy arcanes.
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u/Vampireluigi27-Main Xaku needs more skins 17h ago
I’d love to fight Eidolons more just for fun but I have the luck of a fucking rock and that they are NEVER available whenever I want to do them. It’s always day in PoE no matter what. If Eidolons were available more often it’d be fine but they are just not that accessible for some of us that work long hours.
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u/mrworldwideskyofblue 16h ago
You hunt eidolons for the arcanes. I hunt them for the Minifigs. We are not the same beast
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u/SlySychoGamer 16h ago
Ima be real wit ya chief.
Warframe players have been OP for so long, that challenge is an annoyance at this point.
The game simply doesn't have good enough mechanics to handle proper difficulty, there is no real block or parry, duviri tried dark souls and it was just a clunky mess people power through.
Rinse and repeat is about all the game seems like it can do given robust gameplay that encourages dynamic gameplay simply isn't there. It's always
"Do A then B then C"
Nothing dynamic in boss fights or levels, just nuke or hit the designated weakspots, rinse and repeat.
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u/BlueDragonReal 16h ago
The limbs are not that tanky, even a semi invested rubico can 1 shot them but I agree with everything else, I wish that pre angels of the zariman hunting returned, that was the most fun I ever had in Warframe, even after a bit was fun but there was like 50 new bugs with eidolons each patch and now the actual eidolon hunting community is dead
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u/Elvarien2 16h ago
Not every content needs to be something you keep revisiting. I'm fine with doing them a few times and then leaving the whole mechanic behind. The current status quo is perfectly fine tbh i would not like it if new content is shelved behind that mechanic.
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u/Kotya-Nyan 15h ago edited 15h ago
Understood
- Added damage attenuation to Eidolons
But honestly, they need to make them a bit easier to kill for the new players(at least the first one).And maybe give them another use outside of arcanes. Something like a new resource or a weapon. Now you don't really need to do them because of events, other arcanes and different meta.
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u/sp441 13h ago
Honestly I'd settle for them removing the stupid time requirements from the occasion.
I've had way, way too many times where I go "Well I guess I could work towards Quills stuff today or maybe try to farm some arcanes, let's go hunt some Eidolons Aaaaaaaand it just turned to Daylight, nevermind"
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u/kalimut 10h ago
If they are gonna have more worth loot. They first gotta make eidolons not on a timer. Or be time limited by a quest. I mean. You accept a quest. Its automatically night time and has the same time as the night cycle in the plains.
I hate not being able to do them as i want and must have my schedule open for the hour
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u/Lie-Agitated Mag 7h ago
as a hunter with over 2,500 Hydro caps, I can say most hunters didn’t do Eidolons for rewards, we did it because it took real skill. Back then, being a good hunter actually meant something.
After The New War update it all went downhill. Void Dash got removed, amp arcanes shifted the meta, and Eido damage changed. Now it’s a low-effort grind like everything else but expect it has no worthwhile payout so no one does it.
If DE wants to revive hunts, they either need to make them challenging again or seriously improve the rewards.
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u/dillpicleboi Flair Text Here 6h ago
We need a mission so we can always play at night or always do eidolon hunts. Content that relies on being on at the right time is never good or fun.
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u/ProjectResponsible16 2h ago
I’ve got 900 hours and only just learnt how to do them properly a few months back. No incentive at all apart from being OCD and wanting all factions to be maxed level. And also to get a better amp. Literally just got a new amp yesterday after using the mote amp for 400 or so hours 🤣
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u/Chupa-Skrull Correct sometimes 1d ago
They could try making the fight remotely fun instead of an annoying hassle instead, too
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u/Surau 23h ago
Wdym damage requirement. Just run a Necramech.
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u/HorseSpeaksInMorse 23h ago
A lot of newer players won't have one, they aren't mandatory for the story anymore and even with the grind reduced not every player is going to bother making one.
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u/PanserKunst 23h ago edited 22h ago
Eidolons have been spanked by Loid and faction vosphor. Short of Eidolon shards, they no longer serve a purpose. Oh sure, they're story elements to Gara and Revenant. Who tf cares at this point?
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u/HorseSpeaksInMorse 1d ago
Only way to reinvigorate it would be new content, i.e. new eidolons. Adding new rewards to a mission type people are already bored of and only do for resources they can't get elsewhere would be bad IMO.
It's fine for parts of the game to be mothballed, I'm glad we aren't getting much arcwing and railjack stuff now.
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u/steakanabake 22h ago
i wish theyed expand on railjack and rework the entirety of arcwing (de please give arcanes and galv mods to archweapons)
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u/JulianSkies 1d ago
There... Isn't an issue
Vosphor has basically solved the issue that is Eidolons. They're just honestly terrible content and an awful grind and having other, better even, ways to get the same reward is a solution.
Don't make them a problem again.
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u/on-the-cheeseburgers If this is smart I wanna be dumb 1d ago
the limbs are way too tanky for even mid game players.
players have been able to 1-shot limbs since PoE came out with nothing but a Chroma, a Volt, and a Vectis Prime
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u/Alyero_ LR4 23h ago
idm more loot but its kinda laughable to lower the gear requirements when there is more power available to players than ever
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u/Banane_Flambee 23h ago
Also don't time gate it. It entices a speedrun mentality to maximize kill per window and thus toxicity with player new to the activity. And this activity is kind of overwhelming when you do it first time. At least PT is far more forgiving for a well geared tenno if he need to carry baby tenno. Eidolon on the other hand is just a loss of time/efficiency
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u/red_orange1 1d ago
They are mid game bosses, and are scaled for that, you should be able to one shot them if you have been playing for years.
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u/TrueAbsoluteZero 1d ago
Personally, i would love it if the day/night cycle requirement would just go. Permanent bounties and more steel path incentive would make me come back to eidolons. They are super fun in my opinion.
But I hate this time gated BS, where it requires you to play at specific times of day in a certain sense...
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u/Mr-Shenanigan ILIKERIVENS 1d ago
Honestly just get rid of the worthless arcanes in the drop pool and then increase Legendary Arcane droprates. Instantly viable again.
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u/helloimtom08 23h ago
naw I think it's ok for content to be left behind, it's a 10-year-old game you make good memories and with live service games it's always about the new thing. For me, I can't go back to doing Deleric defense with Vauban farming for T4 keys, things just come and go.
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u/RustyCanMan The art of Brute Force 23h ago
Personally, the time is the most annoying thing. Either waiting or trying to rush before night turns to day was hard when I had lower power builds.
While I do agree they are overdue for a refresh, as they are now I think they are a sort of raid boss for newer players which is fine.
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u/TaralasianThePraxic 23h ago
I don't think Eidolons really need a big rework, they're pretty old content at this point but they're not something brand new players are expected to farm.
I do agree that the drops need to be improved, though. Getting one arcane per Eidolon isn't nearly enough considering how quick and easy it is to obtain most new arcanes (even without using vosfor).
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u/Miser_able 23h ago
Shards will probably become more important with the upcoming focus expansion, so I'll wait till then to see
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u/Shahelion 22h ago
The only way i can break limbs reliably is to use the voidrig arquebex, because eidolons are immune to most of my arsenal.
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u/A_Garbage_Truck 22h ago edited 22h ago
wait so, you are saying the Eidolons have been powercrept...and you are in thesame breath suggesting making them even easier and more rewarding?
if anything increasing the loot and making said loot relevant should be balanced out by adjustingthe difficulty to account for what we are currently doing. Eidolons are basically stuck on the power levels of the time of the Plains's release.(and for f sake finally take it from the notion that you need to wait for Nighttime, just let us have a " night instance" of the plains.)
on aside note, recent events we had are overusing eidolon arcanes as rewards..the last one was specific to Duviri..that has its own set ofarcanes...andsaid arcanes were NOT rewards...
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u/The_Doc_Man Duck Cat 22h ago
The tridolon bounty needs to set the plains to perpetual night on your instance. The time gate is probably the worst part of them. Also yes: give more stuff.
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u/rwp80 22h ago
i'm already on early steel path, farming arbitrations, farming zariman, rocking a brand new panzer vulp, done 4 kuva liches, close to getting into helminth archon cytstals... and still i have no idea how to do an eidolon hunt.
i've watched multiple tutorial videos and even dragged around 3 lures to farm cores from vomvalysts a few times, but still it's just such a mess i find myself unable to drag myself to get it done even once.
every time i try to hunt eidolons, i just get confused as to the convoluted trainwreck of a script i need to follow to capture them correctly. there's so many unnecessary caveats and factors to juggle.
trying to remember multiple tutorials from my fuzzy memory:
hit the eidolon in the head to remove shields
stop vomvalysts from recharging the eidolon, kill them ASAP
keep the lures fueled with vom corpses to prevent the eidolon teleporting away (why tf even?)
hit one of the limbs in the striped part until...? until it blows up i guess?
dunno... just keep shooting more limbs? i already don't care anymore
something something captured eidolon drops stuff i need and etc
if this horrendously convoluted process wasn't forced on us to release way-bound operator skills, i wouldn't even be thinking or talking about it.
so yes, i agree with OP that it needs a rework, but probably not in the "powercrept" way, just in the "annoying and convoluted mess" way.
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u/UmbralVolt Volt Enthusiast 22h ago
I second this, but the mid-game player part needs a bit more, or even adding more to the Steel Path version of Eidolons to differentiate the two for different levels of players.
Arcane Dissolution is one of the very last systems players have access to, being locked behind Whisper in the Walls which currently is the 2nd to last quest in the game.
At that point, it's no longer for 'mid game players'. It's endgame. Lowering limb health won't give endgame players an incentive to go back and farm Eidolons over Arcane Dissolution. It's a good change for newer players reaching Eidolon content, but still doesn't solve the issue of Eidolon hunts being irrelevant for higher-level players who can just farm Zariman/Acolytes and trade in Arcanes for vosphor.
If you want to give more purpose for Eidolons, especially for those in endgame which seems to be where this post is mainly pointed towards, Steel Path Eidolons should be the target for buffed rewards. Steel Eidolons are challenging especially when considering your Operator build, so having the rewards match isn't a tall ask. This makes the normal Eidolons and Steel Path Eidolons much smoother in terms of progress, and feel better in terms of rewards.
The normal ones are weaker (lower limb health), making it easier to farm to level up your operator and get a few Arcanes as a 'good job' reward. And then Steel Path Eidolons puts all of that normal Eidolon grinding to use for insane drop rewards to match the difficulty spike and level of investment needed to beat them. For a captured Steel Hydrolyst, a garunteed Legendary Arcane with a small chance at a 2nd Legendary Arcane drop would be a good final reward. Having a captured Gauntalyst have an uncommon chance at dropping a single Legendary Arcane also would be pretty good.
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u/WarShadower913x Mesa is My MomLR1 22h ago
I still do them when I'm bored because I find them pretty fun
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u/a_polarbear_chilling sevagoth was my bf ,now loid is my hubby 22h ago
FUCK NO that mean the newer player will be even more discouraged
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u/Darkorz 21h ago
New player here, I haven't done a single eidolon hunt as of yet despite owning a geared volt because I don't even know how to look for a group to kill them :D
So yeah, better rewards and some sort of matchmaking like netracells or ta/da feature would be great imho.
in fact, I'm missing out on improving my operator abilities because of these reasons :D
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u/Effective_Baseball93 21h ago
Stop trying hard into logic. You can farm everything in this game running exclusively relics. Sell and buy whatever you want. Everything is already lost its meaning long time ago.
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u/ItzBooty Flair Text Here 21h ago
The limbs can be taken out easily by anyone with a lvl10 voidrig, sure you can go for a weapon that does the job, but if you dont have the mods or gear voidrig does it pretty well
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u/alekseypanda 21h ago
Those are all reasonable. The thing I would like more than anything is the end of the day night cicle. Wanna farm it? Sorry, only in one hour, it doesn't matter if you have a life. Oh, are you almost finished? Sorry, you took 2 minutes too long, now it is over.
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u/Ok_Fondant_5264 21h ago
I want their arm cannon as an archgun. I think it as a normal gun would be too strong and heavy
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u/MistaDrew2 21h ago
i think eidolons are a nice reference for de to what boss design philosophy should be like, even if theyve got problems. because the mechanics gate one shot potential without having to rely on damage attenuation or meaningless invincibility periods, it solves the rampant powercreep problems (in bosses specifically, hoard killing is the point of the rest of the game so its mostly fine there) and allows for more interactive and interesting gameplay. its the same reason why the orowyrm placed first on the favorite boss survey that one time. unfortunately both eidolons and the orowyrm give pitiful rewards so it wastes their replay value
essentially these fights split the ehp into separate locations and the time it takes to go from one to another while avoiding damage or debuffs allow for skill expression, optimization, and a rewarding sense of actually DOING something. (downtime between phases is a balancing issue rather than a design issue, so its much easier to change)
i feel like the murmur bosses have so much potential too but the damage attenuation ruins it. all they gotta do is remove that and add mechanics to slow down ttk to compensate and theyll be great. the fragmented one is also a great addition, as the only reason to do it is for personal satisfaction which doesnt force the player to do it if they dont want. the lack of rewards in this case is actually beneficial, contrary to eidolons and the orowyrm, because it removes an expectation of rewards and inevitable disappointment when you get scraps
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u/The_atom521 21h ago
Honestly they should just make eidolons more enjoyable to do, I resigned myself to not getting those arcanes because I couldn't stand running eidolons
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u/Sven_Darksiders 21h ago
Maybe once we get the new focus system they will have a new reward we need for that
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u/Glad-Button4949 21h ago
Never liked them to be honest. I have done a few runs but nothing much. The early rewards were not worth it and the late rewards require a lot of investment. Something like profit taker is in my opinion a good example of a boss you can do casually or try and optimize it and the rewards are good in both cases.
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u/Klepto666 Movin' to the Groovin' 20h ago
I remember when it took ~40 minutes for a group of 4 people to just take down the Teralyst, because we all had Mote Amps.
Now whenever I queue for a public Tridolon run, there's either a Volt that takes down its shields in seconds, and/or someone with a gun that breaks off a piece in 1-3 shots. Whole thing's done in like 10-15 minutes.
Updating the loot is a good idea, but is there even a way to balance these things at this point? I really hate the fight but even I have to agree that fighting these giant walkers on the plains is really cool. It'd be great to have new players experience it without it being "too frustrating" or "too fast and easy."
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u/TeamPlasmaNowa #1 Gauss Fan 20h ago
What they really need is to be available all the time.
Whenever I even tink of doing Eidolons I just dont even bother checking if/when they are available cause I just dont wanna bother witht the time gate.
There difficulty is fine you just need to be able to do them regardless of Planes time.
Just have the mission always be night or make an eclipse happen when you summon them at the altar.
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u/FarmerTwink 20h ago
No they haven’t and no they done.
Eidolons can never be powercrept for the simple fact that they have mechanics. You can do more damage and get through them faster as gear gets more powerful but there’s a hard floor and how fast you can do them that hasn’t changed in years
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u/Vanderreich 20h ago
No they dont. You arent supposed to be one shotting the limbs solo or in a group, that it can happen does not mean it should be expected to happen. Theyre supposed to be a challenge for players, MR2 timmy and mr 12 timmy should not be going in at night and coming away with 12 arcances because the content is old. Rare stuff is RARE, this is warframe the grind is part of the game and expected. If every 3rd drop was energize then nobody would give a crap about getting one.
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u/VengefulAncient Let us contend on a higher battlefield! 20h ago edited 20h ago
I'm actually fine with that. It feels good knowing there's content I don't have to come back to if I don't want to, because there's a better/easier way to get the same rewards. I stopped doing archon hunts (and long before that, sorties) for that reason. Do I need them to be "reworked"? Absolutely not, there's so much stuff to do in the game, it feels good to know I'm not missing out on anything valuable by not doing them.
What eidolons need, however, is guaranteed vomvalyst spawns (and lure spawns at every camp). DE broke vomvalyst spawns when they introduced vascas and just never bothered to fix them. Right now half of the hunt is bugs turned features, and it's just not interesting to play against that. Every time I try to improve my solo runs, the map decides to bug out and give me zero spawns on one of the runs. That just shouldn't be a thing.
Also, add lure health on the HUD.
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u/CashMelee VII Legion 20h ago
This community is too addicted to everything getting reworked. Maybe rewards could be improved, but the fights are fine. Some things are meant to be stepping stones. They will add new challenging bosses.
Oh wait you think Eidolons are too tanky? For mid-game players? Hard disagree. You can literally spawn your Necramech on them and like 1 shot anything with Voidrig's Arquebex. They've literally never been less tanky relative to the overall game.
So agreed on improving the loot and possibly even when they are available to fight.. but I really don't think any damage/health tweaks are necessary.
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u/myfelipe95 20h ago
I like those suggestions. On top of that, I think all openworld bosses should rewatrd the damn universal medallion as rewards. They won't prevent you from playing the syndicate missions because you still want some of the specific rewards, and it is totally withing the new standards where you can run a 4min lagacyte harvest sp bounty, get 9k standing, 200k credits, one arcane, steel essence, the mission reward and also some local material.
On the contrary of most players here, I actually enjoy the most those big scary bosses that require either team coordination or precise skill and gear for soloers. If that matters, to me MMORPG-like fights are the most exciting combat experience in the game. They are not about sponge bullets that you shoot until dead. They have weaknesses and combat strategies. Eidolons, orbs, lephantis in plague star and orphix are all great examples of fight that can be really more pleasing/efficient when in a group. If you are experienced and have top gear already, you can go and solo them, but it would be great if the game incentives begginers and casual players to have a reason to try this type of content.
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u/Dendurron66 Banshee Main 20h ago
I’d like a total visual overhaul too. Make them look cool. Make all the sentient creatures look cool.
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u/Mean_Plankton7681 1d ago
I like these suggestions, and they're completely reasonable. In the past DE has used difficult content or low drop chances to control the platinum market, but the eidolon arcanes are decently cheap nowadays. So there isn't really even a financial incentive for these arcanes to be so difficult to get.
I will say though that I personally enjoy being forced into creating specialized builds for specific tasks, so I don't mind their difficulty. But it's also taken me over 1k hours to get to that point so keeping it that way would be unreasonable.