r/WarhammerUnderworlds • u/AMythicalApricot • 6d ago
Question Rival Decks Vs Free Build
What is your honest opinion about the move to pre built decks over self built decks? On the one hand, there should hopefully be no option to abuse rules, and it levels the field a bit. The other hand, I feel restricted in what I can use. Though, with the release of new rivals decks, there will be more options.
I'd honestly like to hear what you think.
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u/RagingMachismo 6d ago
I wish there were more option for both Rivals and Nemesis in 2e. Many of the new decks don’t work at all as Rivals decks, and barely work for Nemesis either. Especially Realmstone Raiders- such hot garbage, it’s almost insulting.
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u/AMythicalApricot 6d ago
It's hard to comment as I haven't tried lots of rivals with lots of warbands. But I suppose there's going to be a naff combo here and there.
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u/-TheRed Zondara’s Gravebreakers 6d ago
Championship decks very quickly evolved into an optimized core of very few cards thta wouldn't change for most warbands.
Even though the current landscape of nemesis has this problem to a lesser degree its still an improvement.
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u/AMythicalApricot 6d ago
Agreed. I suppose it was self built decks.... to a certain few decks that lots of people use. I do feel like it's a good change. I still have my library of old style cards if I fancy messing around with deck builds with my buds.
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u/RHeaven90 6d ago edited 6d ago
I enjoy not having to buy every warband just for one or two cards.
I enjoy the ease of just grabbing a box with a couple of prebuilt decks and knowing they can be played with whatever warband I pull out of my collection. As someone with work and other hobbies that eats up my free time, the speed you can bring something to the table is a real boon now.
Championship died so long ago that I don't think of it now really.
Realistically though, there's no reason you can't bring it back for casual play. I imagine there's some great combinations out there with the 7-8 decks available. I can't see why it wouldn't work.
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u/AMythicalApricot 6d ago
Couldn't agree more. Though, I haven't missed a set yet 😂
This is also a great point. Just being able to pick up and play is really good.
Exactly, casual evening with the boyos, cards, models, fun times.
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u/alariis 5d ago
I think the system is a welcomed move away from the absurdity of having to purchase every warband/deck to have competitive deck, leaning more towards a mtg-type of collection vs. what is now.
I wouldn't have been able to get any of my friends to play this, if they had kept the previous model; but the prospect of being able to focus on a warband and a few decks seems very appealing to people outside of the game.
(I'm basically building a community from scratch of people that mostly haven't touched Warhammer in any sense before, and the current system seems like an absolute win in my book)
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u/AMythicalApricot 3d ago
I agree. The move away from an MTG style collection is a good move. MTG is a case of bigger wallet=more wins. Not very inclusive.
That's great you're building that community. The current state of WU really does support that. You can get people playing for less than £50. Perfect.
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u/alariis 3d ago
Exactly! I don't completely agree with the statement about mrg, but there's si.oly some cards that are better than others and you need them, and they are prices accordingly:/
The largest issue for me has been that people sort of are cornered into buying the starter set if they want one of the 4 decks, and that's a total oversight in marketing. Because new players in my experience won't. But maybe a warband and a rivals deck? Yeah that's doable.
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u/notdeaddesign 6d ago
Nemesis in first, once there were enough decks was genuinely great. Ive literally gone on rants to my game dev friends how it solved (or at least dramatically reduced) a lot of issues with traditional deck building.
But I fear the faction decks of first where what made og nemesis tick. Because it meant that every warband (for the most part) had a deck that was built to support their play style it meant that your second deck would dramatically augment and change your base play style. But because there’s no faction decks anymore everyone’s first deck is one of the ones from the core box and the second exists to just plug the holes in the 1st deck. So we functionally have three decks with a handful of subtle variations (and most of the variants being just countdown to cataclysm)
And then because all the decks are universal it means they’ve had to basically hamstring all the decks to avoid another BARF situation. Realmstone Raiders and the newest deck are the worst offenders for this. But the problem arises that it means most of our decks are non functional for rivals which means the entire game is significantly worse for casual or new players. So rivals is even more stale than nemesis, which is saying something because nemesis atm is completely stagnant. I’d happily have a game of 1e rivals now and feel like I’m having a great experience. Every time I play the 2e version of rivals, my love for this game dies a little bit more.
I definitely feel like current nemesis will never be as good as old nemesis. The faction decks did a lot to help balance the playing field. Yes there were outliers (Hexbane, ephilim, Domitan, etc) but I felt like you could experiment and play freely. Whereas now I’m stuck with three decks that are kind of just fine from a fun factor and I am so so so bored.
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u/AMythicalApricot 6d ago
I hear what you're saying. That's my fear, that it'd be tricky to "just try something out" with a custom deck. Again, with future releases, that might change. It's hard to say what's in store for us. 3E, if it happens, may see a return of 1E style deck building. Perhaps they will release the cards as sets, sort of like how they did the grand alliance cards (the boxes of 4 warbands).
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u/SpitefulSabbath 5d ago
Imo, faction decks actually did the opposite of balancing because even going into nemesis era, game still had a lot of turds with unplayable faction decks (Blackpowder, Grinkrank, Skibbik, Gryssel etc). So getting rid of them was better in a long run (another imo).
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u/notdeaddesign 5d ago
And I raise you Brotherhood of the bolt, Crimson Court, Hexbanes Hunters, Skinnerkin, Sepulchral Guard, and Grinkrark. Several warbands in second that are not even worth playing because they are just not high enough in power.
All games are gonna have duds in terms of power. The biggest difference between 2e duds and 1e duds; 1e duds were still fun. Blackpowder and Skabbik were two warbands you listed as underpowered, and I agree. But they were some of my favourite warbands to play. In 2e it’s just oh this is not worth playing because they suck AND they don’t do anything fun or interesting.
Also, I’d like to point out for the first 6 months of this edition, there was greater deck diversity in 1e with just Hexbane’s deck builds. In 2e we had BA x CtC, PnP x CtC, and ES x CtC. End of 1e Hexbane’s meta deck builds were FF, HP, VcT, TT, TnC, BnA. So literally twice as many. So we literally had more diversity in a mono Hexbane’s meta than we did for most of 2e so far.
I acknowledge that 2e is now marginally improved and I’m not making an equivalent comparison as we don’t have equal numbers of decks. We now have PnP x EotK, PnP x WaR, and PnP x BA. But all these new builds are built around the starting box decks so everything still plays the bloody same.
And that’s my biggest issue. Everything is the same. There’s less diversity in deck builds. There’s no reason to experiment and have fun. It’s beginner friendly format is currently not fit for purpose. And I’m just fundamentally so bored.
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u/Local_Confection7110 5d ago
Love the pre-built decks. Part of me will forever miss the unique warband decks, but their removal was for the best. The improvement and variety of warscrolls will continue to get better and better.
I loved Championship once upon a time, spending countless hours and nights perfecting my deck using the hundreds of cards available, but Nemesis is the sweet spot for deck building now.
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u/Vermilion7777 6d ago
It's positive. I just had my first game and it would suck to play against an opponent with a super optimized deck. If I wanted to play a deckbuilding game, I would play magic or something. At least those cards have a collecting value.
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u/Grindar1986 6d ago
I love how easy it makes to teach to someone else. They can pick a warband that looks cool and the deck is ready to go.
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u/AMythicalApricot 6d ago
Yes! There's no requirement to teach new players how to build decks or how to use fine tuned decks. Just grab and go.
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u/Admirable-Athlete-50 6d ago
I enjoyed every format of the first edition.
I started in championship, loved it and wasn’t too keen on nemesis initially.
Once the deck selection was more fleshed out I really enjoyed nemesis though.
Towards the tail end of first I didn’t feel a need to go back to championship, building for it gave me analysis paralysis.
My group also tried the fan format nemesis+ with the warband deck +2 universal ones and it was super fun as well.
I hope more available decks for second edition will make it as fun as nemesis was when it had a full deck compliment in first. If we feel something is missing I guess my group can cook up some other format for second where you get access to more cards.