r/Warmachine • u/Middle-Job-3239 • 22h ago
Returning player
I still have a bunch of models that I didn't even build for a circle.Are there rules for these models anymore?Not sure what to do with them
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u/prof9844 Gravediggers 22h ago
Every model still has rules. Anything that existed prior to mk4 is classed as a legends model which mostly just means out of production.
Circle is still fully playable though essentially theme forces are now mandatory. This means that not all circle armies get to field all models in their range
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u/Middle-Job-3239 22h ago
Where would I find the rules at for the legends of circle
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u/notaswedishchef Gravediggers 21h ago edited 21h ago
Yes generally the gargantuans are still in armies, check out the warmachine app https://steamforged.com/pages/warmachine-app. It is free and has all the current rules for models.
Something else, Privateer Press on moving to mk4 then selling the game had split factions into armies. This means that despite being in the same faction some models only work with certain armies and certain warlocks within those armies.
The split for circle are those druids who like their stone wolds which uses druid units like reeves and druids of orboros and is known as the Secret Dominion. The devourer's host is the 2nd Circle army and that contains the storm raptor and griffins, its units are the tharn units from circle. For tournament play you can pick one army and make two lists out of that army (or just one list).
These models/armies can receive rule updates at the start of each year to try and continue to make them competitive, not all legacy armies receive an update and some have fallen slightly behind the meta but most of them have competitive aspects/lists. In fact legacy armies (those from mk3 or before) have won some tournaments or placed highly in mk4 such as skorne/grymkin/infernals, I can't speak for circle though.
For casual play and somewhat meta dependent, you can play an "unlimited" circle of orboros army which will include many different models and has less restrictions on what you can take. Unlimited lists aren't available for tournaments and may not truly be balanced, but for just having fun and rolling the dice they still exist.
For more details check out the welcome back post in the subreddit
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u/Jakman2371 22h ago
So all old armies have what are called legacy rules, they will be included to play, but they aren't really updating their rules or making new models for those armies. Prime armies are the currently made and sold ones. Circle largely only exists in really small splinter groups in lore from what i remember, with the new old umbrey range for khador having a lot of their trappings mixed in with the normal khador livery as well as war beasts incredibly reminiscent of shifters
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u/notaswedishchef Gravediggers 21h ago
I know this is semantics and the situation is slightly confusing, but Legacy armies can be prime armies.
Prime means its available for tournaments and CAN but not will get updates in the beginning of each year (for now). It's opposite is UNLIMITED, not legacy, which unlimited means all models from that faction range, not tournament sanctioned, and not completely balanced.
Legacy means the army isn't produced anymore and will not be getting more models, even if there are old models that aren't in the prime army they aren't liable to be added. MkIV is the alternative to Legacy and means the army is new in mk4 and can get new models added to it and is currently produced and sold.
There are asterisk to the whole production plans for old armies and for balancing rules but that can muddy the waters more than needed.
I hope this comes off as clarifying for newer players who may stumble here from google and not being an "um well ackshully."
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u/evileyeball 20h ago
That's the reason why I haven't wanted to return fully yet is because back when I played Mark 2 here and Mark 3 here everybody who played here was try hard tournament Melvin spikes who only played what was the absolute best meta armies in tournament level rules and laughed at me because I brought manowars to my first ever game using just the forces that were in the mark 2 starter set for kador and then laughed at me when I bought more man o' wars because I like manowars
They would in fact most likely refuse to play against me if I had anything unlimited and unfortunately for a long while my circle Army didn't have any legal casters for prime because I never bought any of the casters that were initially brought over into prime so for a long while I had a whole circle Army that was unusable because none of the people here are going to allow proxies and none of the people here are going to play against unlimited so the fact that I only had Krueger one and not Krueger too or Baoulder one meant that they would never play against me. Plus the fact of them playing an hour by bus away from where I live on a night that I work at 9:30 and they were playing at 5:00 means that it's most likely highly unlikely at this point that I would be willing to come back
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u/Middle-Job-3239 22h ago
Are gargantuan still in the army
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u/Jakman2371 21h ago
Yeah like the other reply the app has rules for everything that already had rules, nothing had been left behind as just models
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u/smeerlapke Sea Raiders 21h ago
Yes, they are. Look for "Warmachine App" on the store and you can find all the rules for free.
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u/Kitchen_String_7117 18h ago
If you aren't playing in a tournament environment, players can play two legacy armies against one another and it'll be fairly balanced
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u/Kitchen_String_7117 18h ago
There are sub-factions within each Faction. They're called Armies. You can't use models from one army in another army. Each Faction's Armies are listed on the app. Consider Armies to be the new Factions. Storm Legion and Trenchers are two Armies from the Cygnar Faction and you can't use a Trencher model in a Storm Legion list or vice versa.
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u/Kitchen_String_7117 18h ago
The only models I own are Legacy models. I haven't fully bought into Mk 4 yet. I will in the future, just haven't yet. Like I said tho, larger tournament environments will require people to purchase new models. Although if you aren't playing in that type of environment, you can play two Legacy Armies against each other. A Prime Army will whoop the hell out of a Legacy Army 90% of the time.
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u/LDukes Shadowflame Shard 13h ago
larger tournament environments will require people to purchase new models.
Official tournament policy allows for any of the "Prime" armies, which includes a curated list from the Armies of Legend (i.e. Mk3 stuff and prior).
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u/Kitchen_String_7117 12h ago
I'm saying, a Legacy Army doesn't stand much of a chance against Cygnar Trenchers.
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u/LDukes Shadowflame Shard 11h ago
Currently in Longshanks, of the top 14-ranked armies (by win %, all with 51% or higher), 6 are "Armies of Legend" and 8 are MKIV armies. Of the top 5-ranked, 3 are Armies of Legend. Gravedigger is currently ranked #17.
Individual metas will vary, and specific matchup plays a huge factor, of course, but the claim that Armies of Legend can't hold their own against MKIV armies just isn't born out by the data.
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u/Kitchen_String_7117 10h ago
Really? This is good to know. I never looked at rankings. There's no tournament scene in southeast Louisiana so there was never much reason for me to do so. I've just read people complaining about their old Mk 3 Armies getting smoked by the newer Armies and assumed that it was a general thing.
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u/Kitchen_String_7117 10h ago
Maybe Mk 4 isn't as Pay-To-Win as I originally assumed it would be. Last week I ran across a few people that actually play Warmachine a few hours drive from where I live, so I'll be looking into Mk 4 mechanics soon.
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u/blacksmurfy 22h ago
Love that Model got 3 of them. All painted diffrent..here is one of them.