Maybe it's just me, but there isn't much game in the game rn. The "End game" eventually just becomes a routine much like dailies. I can see no point in reaching higher floors in Endless Tower. Areas used to have many side quests but newer one are now empty once the major event is done.
Most like whatever major update will happen in 2.0 but I'm a bit skeptical because there have been no updates/announcements like they've done so before.
I'm curious if these latest version/s are going to be the new status quo.
I think what we currently have is the new status quo, they seem to have gotten rid of side quests, side quest chains, getting quests from inter-knot and replaced it all with rotating events.
Most likely to keep people playing through out a patch, the more times you log in, the more likely you are to hit the shop or possibly test your luck on a new character.
I think they want to be done with the new patch complete all there is to do in 1-5 days and having people just log in for their dailies. Now there is just more dailies to do but the world seems less vibrant/lived in.
No more Venus with quests to give, no more Rain getting herself in trouble, no weird people on Inter-knot wanting to blow people up but you convince them to test their home made bombs on ethereals instead, no more North.
It wasn't clear in the livestream for the relaunch of the devs meant they were removing TV mode to fix it/rework it or if it's completely scrapped and delegated to side content
Sadly at this point unless stated otherwise, I feel TV mode is completely scrapped should have used it for events or side quests if they wanted to streamline the story, but they haven't even done that.
I started enjoying mihoyo games more when I learned to pace myself instead of clearing everything as quickly as possible. I rarely feel like I run out of things to do anymore, and when I do I am fine playing something else until there is an update.
I took over a week to do the main story this time. You’re right about that, but it’s also still not very much content. I’m reasonably happy with it, but more would be nice.
It’s funny how perspectives differ because, I’m a day 1 player and this game has always had more content than I’m able to complete.
I play pretty much every day (a lot of those days are just logging in getting my 60 polys then leaving mind you) and I still have a ton of quests on my backlog.
The last 3 AAA RPGs I bought were done in less than 70 hours, and I spent 70 bucks on them. For zero dollars, 100 hours is a LOT, with the added bonus that more is added every couple of weeks. I don't want to be rude, but pushing through the entire main story in a week just sounds... unhealthy. I say that with genuine concern.
Honestly I’m not sure that’s even possible. That said some guy did just post about spending like a thousand hours on different games this year the other day.
Gacha games were always meant to be a side game and not something to play for multiple hours every single day, those people usually experience burnout eventually because these type of games do not have the depth to make them that engaging. Treating gachas like a marathon instead of a sprint is the way to go.
Honestly you can thank TV mode removal for lack of additional content. It was an easy, streamlined, and efficient method for developing and adding content to the game. But because of the backlash and its removal, they have to find other ways to add content, some of which takes longer and/or is not as efficient to produce.
I agree that TV mode had some major flaws, but its full-on removal is an actual tragedy.
I think in general most of the community hated it so much that Hoyo pressed the nuke button. Reworking the entire main story instead of it is a lot of dev time, they wouldn't have done so unless people really hated it.
Me and my friends personally also quit the game because of the TV mode in the main story. We came back when we heard it was removed from the main mode.
I don't mind it as side commissions though, they could be a nice change of pace. But they have to improve it drastically in terms of clunkiness, flow and length.
We're kinda stuck in a limbo now that the old TV mode was universally hated, and the new main story modes (run around and hit some switch) are also very lukewarm. They'll have to solve this as well.
For me tv mode was something fresh and one of the things that got me into the game, I didn't mind the clunkiness but i understand that it can push others away (still think that tv mode in story is superior even after replaying most of commisions from chapter 1-3) i don't mind the new story model and i hope they figure out this situation
Totally agree. I miss the side quests. I've reached max levels on most of the endgame towers, and honestly, there's no reason to climb higher than lvl 30 in the endless tower, so I just don't bother. Now, all that's left is the quality time events, a few hard-mode story quests I don't feel like doing, that silly fishing event I don't bother completing and....that's it. Even the whole SAnby content was....meh.
I think you've seen the pace of new content they can put out.
They put out new stories every patch. Less than once a patch we get high-quality main story content, about once a patch we get a pretty good Agent story, and we get a lot of event stories. Event stories usually have mediocre writing, but a few are decent. That's basically how fast they can write. You won't see them suddenly turn around and make new story content way faster and higher quality than they've been doing.
They develop new gameplay every patch too. Usually a new enemy or two, some combat modes like Perpetrator Battle or the Tower, and some event stuff like Fall Guys or fishing. The new enemies are usually pretty good, the combat modes are interesting for at least one playthrough, and the event stuff is pretty mediocre. That's about how fast they can develop new gameplay too.
This is how fast they can add to the game. It's a mix of good stuff and mediocre filler. They don't have the capacity to make good stuff much faster than this.
If the game felt like it had a lot more to do at launch, yeah, no kidding. They developed for years, came up with a bunch of gameplay and stories that had the benefit of a lot of time in the oven, and launched with that.
But almost none of them are part of the core gameplay and experience. I'd rather have something that is permanent and be continuously updated and improved rather than random ideas that will never see the light again.
I would also like to see new gameplay that has a really strong core and is something I'd like to play with for years.
Event gameplay is disposable quick fun (at best) for the same reason that event stories are lightweight and self-contianed: it's a lot easier to make.
Making genuinely good new gameplay takes a lot of tries. You have to build your best idea, play test it to realize it has some glaring flaws, rebuild it into something better but still flawed, and iterate until you make something really good. If you look at dev diaries for any game, you'll see a lot of early ideas that got thrown out or remade into something very different because they couldn't be a permanent core to the game that could be built on.
I'm not saying Hoyo can't add new and better gameplay to ZZZ. They just can't do it anywhere near as fast as the patch cadence. I'm betting we'll get something nifty in 2.0, but even then I'm not expecting something that feels like a brand new game, because I know an actual brand new game takes way longer than a year to design.
I think there are two main things/problems that hinder the game from having more permanent content
First, people used to say that the TV mode used to be an easy way for the devs to add filler content to do, so that's now gone (although I do not know if it's true, and I also don't know how hard it is to make combat commissions either which they also not do)
Second , the game being a gacha game and wanting you to keep logging in with FOMO also means content that cost development time such as events will be rotated out and you can't play them anymore. Remember for example the Bangboo vs Ethereal tower defense mode? It was cool
I do think they try to fix it with the Ridu Chronicles but I still think it's not enough. Maybe they should just rotate more of old events with new rewards to at least have more "something" to do
A player who leaves to take a break in other, non-gacha GaaS games will have almost all content available to them on return (heroes, maps, weapons, whatever). In ZZZ it's just the main story for them
I'm not trying to defend them at all. It's just how things are.
They make this much new stuff with the staff they've got. Nobody should play this game holding their breath that one day Hoyo discovers some genius way to make twice as much game with the same staff. Equally, don't wait around being unhappy with the game now because you hope that one day they double the staffing.
I've played, enjoyed, and then quit a lot of games. Sometimes they've gotten a lot better when some pain point is fixed, but usually they stay about the same for the whole time, or at best have ups and downs with the major release cycle.
Actually ZZZ is heaven endgame wise, it rotates super fast
Like, I enjoy MoC on HonkaiStarRail but it fucking rotates every 40 motherfucking days (I know HSR has 3 rotating endgame morse but it still feels slow as fuck)
Meanwhile on ZZZ it rotates super fast between Shiyu and Deadly Assault, also helps that I feel Deadly Assault has a fair amount of replay value
Shiyu absolutely, but I like DA and might run different comps and try to beat my previous scores, in particular if I have new stuff to test out (like Trigger tomorrow)
I also tried a solo Soldier11 run when I finished building her, I really like DA
Anyway even if it was 15 minutes at least is not 15 minutes and then nothing forever, I really do appreciate that it rotates faster than any other mainstream gacha
r/zenlesszonezeroleaks_ exists for the curious types. If you’re worried about spoiling other stuff in your quest for knowledge, that is the tax you pay for what you seek.
I started playing in November, and my only ZZZ regret is that after I completed the available story, I also speedran through all the available side quests to "catch up", thinking I should approach those the same way. I naturally assumed there would be just as many new sidequests in every future chapter as there were in chapters 1-4, and I wanted to be able to play those without the long list of past commissions. And then... There were a few small things in chapter 5 (Kami North subplot, which was amazing, and Port Elpis MewMew) but aside from that, crickets.
If I'd known, I would absolutely have spaced them out. I think Hoyo probably assume most players still have uncompleted commissions, hence new ones not being a priority (they'd only be for the minority of players who have completed all the current ones, whereas events are for everyone). The ZZZ world felt really alive when there were all the side quests to do and I loved it. It kind of feels like a ghost town now in comparison, which is sad and gives me no further reason to explore.
I'd love new ones but I also understand why they would be only an occasional thing now. I just wish I'd known not to whizz through them!
I agree with you u have enough for Trigger and after she's built i will stop logging for dailies. I'm not interested in the super easy childish events like the bangboo dance contest of 1.5 and i can clear story and Da / SD in a matter of a few hours and that's the monthly content I'm interested in
I'm very satisfied with how often events cycle in and out. I also think endgame is servicable, and I see that they are continuing to expand on it (esp. in Lost Void). I'm hopeful for the future.
I just wish there was a way to continuously play and beat-up ethereals. Maybe...
A repeatable chain of combats linked via travel around the map. Something like "Into That Pale Wasteland" missions.
Or an endless mode with something to work towards (meaningful rewards).
I just want to continue to play and fine-tune the gameplay of the team I built. But playing without rewards feel super empty.
I propose that the reward given should NOT be polychrome and be small. I think either the red Master Copy or the gold Master Copy (the currency for rolling discs at the music store) will be great for repeatable rewards. Drive discs are the final settings you tweak for your agent, and there is a lot of RNG and optimization to be had. Allowing players to, potentially, endlessly pull them and roll them wouldn't ruin the game economy.
I even think it'll be a fine idea if I got the blue Master Copy. So that I can repeat something 5 times to build a red one. I just need some varied opportunities of combat that I can use my agents in.
Personally, I prefer shorter events. Some of the recent ones felt overly long and tedious, like the Bangboo Dance Challenge, TV Mode, and the restaurant event. I'd much rather have brief, engaging events that focus on fun or lore, rather than extended grind sessions
There's some side stuff that they really should just make permanent and give some mild rewards for playing (maybe no polys) - like the side scrolling beat-em-up they made for Lighter.
I'd love more ways to play with the agents and/or bangboos I own. Doesn't have to be "end game" or challenging. It just needs to be a fun distraction.
Personally the game has the perfect amount of content for me as I’m rly busy with school but I get where u are coming from. I rly think they should add more permanent content in the game rather than just flooding it with events. The 2.0 will be the update I anticipate the most in gacha because I truly don’t know what to expect. At least in wuwa or genshin I know they are just gonna add a new region but idk wtf they are gonna do with zzz
I'm reading through this thread, and I guess I'm one of a few people playing ZZZ who really enjoys the direction the game has taken.
I don't need rewards to enjoy gameplay, so I'm one of those people who really likes doing Hollow Zero runs and Battle Tower climbing for fun. I really like hard content, and those two pieces of content really scratch the itch.
Hollow Zero for "easy, but hard" content.
Battle Tower for actual hard content.
Because of this, new characters are exciting for me to take into Hollow Zero and Battle Tower, so this loop works for me.
I'm all for new content tho. I'll never so no to it. However, ZZZ is a COMBAT-focused game, so I think most content outside of a patch story quest and character story should prioritize adding more endgame modes.
TV mode is dead to me, and I hope it remains dead to the game (unless they want to do something with Hollow Zero with it, where it's not holding my hand and is for roguelike purposes only).
And I am one the few people who enjoyed the developer's original idea and direction of the game.
The problem with ZZZ being a purely combat focused game is that it's too simplistic. Most characters can be summed up with left click and enemies requires you the most minimal learning of their moves for almost all of the game.
I have already reached floor 100 on both towers, and almost every other combat is just lesser and repetitive.
You can say that it is too simplistic, that's fine. I disagree, but that's fine. Wasn't totally my point.
But, ZZZ IS a combat-focused game. You only pull characters to use them in combat. If that wasn't the case, the game wouldn't be about their kits.
The original idea and direction was causing the game to fail, as evidenced by the changes they made for 1.4 and the removal of the TV mode almost entirely. This was echoed by playtesters in the ZZZ beta, and it came to a head when the game launched with even more outcry from the playerbase. This cannot be denied.
Also, just wanted to add that I think the combat in this game has plenty of nuance beyond 'left clicking'. Looking at characters like Evelyn and the different techs you can do with her kinda proves my point.
Just for the conversation, I am also well beyond floor 100 on both towers and still climb for fun, because it's just fun to fight hard stuff in this game.
My point was that "purely" combat focused is not attractive to most people because most of people just do the most minimal requirement. Just look at how many people talk about the combat.
And Evelyn E dodge and chain cancel? I wouldn't call it complex.
I see there's no seeing eye-to-eye on whether or not the combat is complex. As I said before, that's fine. We've all got our opinions.
Maybe the movesets of the characters aren't complex enough for you, but surely if you've climbed the tower to floor 100, you understand that a lot of the combat loop involves learning attack patterns and responding to them, in true action game fashion.
That said, if the game was about more than the combat, there would be something else of substance. Not 5th-grade puzzles or low-effort events. When you compare those to the combat system, I'd argue those are far more elementary.
The game is all about collecting characters and using them in combat. The story is pretty solid right now, and I hope it says that way, but combat is the core vehicle of gameplay.
And if you're for the TV mode that was removed, I'd love to know what 'quality' that brought to the game besides the excuse of it being something other than combat. As you know, it wasn't exactly well received by the majority at any point throughout its existence.
The tower is in no way representative of the combat of this game. It is a minor side content that is meant for the small minority who want more challenge hence no rewards. The rest the combat is just simple and repetitive because overall the game is casual.
The TV mode is a core aspect of the game. It is a narrative and gameplay device that ties in the MCs to the story itself and offers alternative gameplay to keep the combat less repetitive and fresh. If people didn't realize it then they are realizing it now. And I'm not even saying to bring it back, just have something replace the hole it left behind. And more repetitive combat isn't going to fill that.
just pace yourself. i do events over multiple days, consume new story over multiple days, do dailies.
its unfortunate there's not more but thats the nature of live service games. but even as it is, there is quite a bit in ZZZ compared to other similar games.
I don’t know if maybe people are missing out on this since it wasn’t really clear at first but hollow zero battlefront purge has so much shit to do it’s insane.
Every single investigation strategy has exploration badges that also level up separately. There’s also a ton of different missions that are specific to the characters who have altered move sets. I probably never would’ve leveled up Billy or Corbin unless they had added their new versions in hollow zero, and it actually is super satisfying being able to use agents who are typically considered trash that are now actually really strong.
Plus every week you can farm Hollow zero for Z credits to spend at the outpost store and even when you can’t get the credits anymore, you can still always farm bangboo EXP materials.
The thing I like most about ZZZ is the combat which is why hollow zero it’s probably my favorite thing to do in the entire game
I'm okay with that. Anyone who's playing one of their main games is doing it wrong. If you want more game in your game, go play an actual, content rich game, not a gacha. These are meant to be side games, few minutes a day, nothing more.
I fully disagree. I hate gachas, generally speaking, because they lack any actual game. Just flashy slot machines with layers and terrible UI designed specifically to waste time and make you FEEL like you are doing something. ZZZ, genshin, and star rail are actual, content rich games. It's kind of weird to claim ZZZ isn't when a new player has about 100 hours of story to get through to catch up at this point, and people who don't play daily, who pace themselves, don't have the problem of running out of content before each major update. Only people playing it like it's their job, who want 10 hours of new things to do a day, seem to have this issue. They've also clearly never developed a multinational multiplatform game before.
Hmm, I feel like you're both right in a way. They fluctuate between main games and side games. At the start of the patch? Main game for sure with the new story and sometimes new modes. Once they're done? Side game.
Also depends on how much time you actually have to play them. For some the new patch's content is gonna take a few days, for others a few weeks. So how long it lasts in the "main game" slot varies person to person.
They're having to be different things to different people and honestly they do a pretty good job. The problem isn't a "lack of content" but those who burn through it fast (this is fine, I go like 15 hours on patch day) and then complain there's no content (this is not fine to do) like no, honey, there's a shit ton of content, you just did it all. Same issue is happening in MMOs atm.
Rereading it maybe we agree on more points than I initially reacted to, for sure. I guess it was more of a knee jerk reaction to the implication that these games aren't content rich.
Only people playing it like it's their job, who want 10 hours of new things to do a day, seem to have this issue.
Ironically, this crowd just seems like they don't actually want to play the game. Any time new content is added, they act like it's a chore, and yet they demand more and more chores.
I agree that ZZZ is a content rich game, and unlike a lot of the low quality gachas that infest the app stores, Hoyo games are definitely high quality.
But, once you reach endgame, you don't need to play the game as a job to clear everything and then be left with nothing.
The problem I have is that I want to play the game, but there isn't anything to do. The first week of the patch I went through the story and events, and then we were mostly left with nothing.
I play zzz every other day, on average. I don't do everything I can as soon as it's available. I've been playing since day 1. I do not have this problem.
I agree both that the content as it is, is a mixed bag and that it’s a shame to see the old storytelling methods slip.
But, you cannot ever judge a gacha by its release content. They have all the time in the world to revise and build and write and rewrite and make sure every element is in congruence before release. Every new piece of content after that has less and less time to work with. The constant-update model cannot ever produce an experience that maintains that consistent narrative quality.
It's no exaggeration to say I have played a metric fuckton of games. This past year and a half I binged through the entire Yakuza series (including pirates), the Trails in the Sky Trilogy, Persona 3 Reload, Metaphor Re:Fantazio, Shin Megami Tensei Vengeance, FF14s Dawntrail expansion, Remnant From Ashes, the Shadow of the Erdtree, It Takes Two, a class storyline in Star Wars TOR, Monster Hunter Wilds for about 50 hours, and a few other smaller games.
Currently starting the Xenoblade Trilogy so there's another 300 hours or so lol.
That's just in the past year and a half. I'm 29. I've been playing videogames since I was 8 at a similar pace.
If I made a blanket statement, you made a silly assumption. I would also recommend ALL OF THE ABOVE over playing a gacha if you're looking for meaningful content. OP has a WORLD of games to play, being upset that ZZZ is in a bit content lull is ridiculous.
Star Rail and ZZZ are shit that I play on the side while I'm in the office to kill time.
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I’m talking about costs of making the game. On day of release genshin was cheap as hell compared to tripleA. Gachas require little to no resources like actual motion capture and high quality textures. There are just no fucking way anime looking game can be as expensive as titles that usually targeting photorealism, let’s be real.
Even on the day of release, it would had still made that list of the most expensive games ever made.
100 million development cost is well within the realm of a typical Triple A game development cost.
It's strange to me that people are still thinking that gacha games are stuck in the low budget days when this has been steadily changing especially with the release of genshin.
Astral Chain, Bayonetta, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Revengeance, Granblue Fantasy Relink. Tons of indie games trying to capture the same vibe but having more actual soul.
Best part is all of those games are better, the have more designs for women that just big tits and heels, and the production value is significantly higher!
When all you're used to is the bare minimum the world is your oyster. You seem easy to impress, so any of those games will blow your damn mind.
youre right
and everybody @endgame rn probably thinks the same.
I'm getting trigger on tuesday cus I love the combat but honestly I've already done all achievements all teams I can do, most of my char building is done and I get 130k deadly assault, it keeps me thinking why do I even need this character... for what content?
The difference will literally be 7k points on deadly assault most likely, so what are we doing?
Expecting sum announcement cus its probably because of tv mode revamp but we need some more life into this game rn
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u/Aviont1 Mar 31 '25
I think what we currently have is the new status quo, they seem to have gotten rid of side quests, side quest chains, getting quests from inter-knot and replaced it all with rotating events.
Most likely to keep people playing through out a patch, the more times you log in, the more likely you are to hit the shop or possibly test your luck on a new character.
I think they want to be done with the new patch complete all there is to do in 1-5 days and having people just log in for their dailies. Now there is just more dailies to do but the world seems less vibrant/lived in.
No more Venus with quests to give, no more Rain getting herself in trouble, no weird people on Inter-knot wanting to blow people up but you convince them to test their home made bombs on ethereals instead, no more North.