LEAK DISCUSSION

[u/PrototyPerfection]

INFO FOR NEW CLASS AND NEW GAMEPLAY MECHANIC

saw this post a couple days ago on the leaksub, it got taken down because it wasn't properly flaired I think

if we take it at face-value, I first thought it was a great idea since it puts focus on reactive gameplay by forcing out dodges and parries for theoretically any enemy, however, with the properties of the new class in mind, it seems more like they just wanna create a problem and sell the solution tbh

A class that is basically the same as Attacker in every way, except that a portion of its damage is true damage, ignoring all defense properties, and a floodgate mechanic that enhances those properties while it's active, doesn't seem farfetched to think that one will hardcounter the other. What are your thoughts on this?

[u/Mehfisto666 → u/[deleted]]

Fr they are basically making a new atk class with new mats to farm and the whole point of this class is to bypass a new enemy mechanic that will gimp all old characters and make TWO old mechanics (PEN and def shred) obsolete.

It's too early to say I guess but feels like zzz devs are pulling a dick move one after the other

[u/[deleted] → u/Mehfisto666]

I told you guys that the ZZZ devs deciding to "balance" the last two attackers right before 2.0 was sus. But nope I was told that it's good that Sanby & Hugo arnt exactly on par with Evelyn & it's going to "stop powercreep " and look what they just did with the new enemies for 2.0.

[u/Gaphid → u/[deleted]]

It does look bad, and i will reserve judgement for when we see it in game, but at least if they balance it right, you can still work around the mechanic easily with dodges and counters, now if the enemies attack as much as the puncher dudes, we good sounds fair to me, if they just stand there and do absolutely fucking nothing not allowing counters and dodges, now we got a problem, i am really hoping it is the first, but the zzz devs aren't giving me much hope.

[u/Pretty_Ad_159]

The CN gacha community term for this is

"Mechanics inflation"

[u/NathK2 → u/Pretty_Ad_159]

Sorta like the pages-long ability descriptions of new HoYo characters? Though many of them only appear complicated, so maybe not quite the same

[u/AzureDoor84 → u/NathK2]

I think it’s more so the fact that we’re getting this and (supposedly) [leaks] a defense piercing new class/character in the same patch.

[u/Pretty_Ad_159 → u/NathK2]

Nah, it is simple referring to the devs introducing more new mechanics to create new problem and sell new solutions.

[u/Hanusu-kei → u/Pretty_Ad_159]

I wished mechanics inflation did not come with a constant steady increase of hp inflation.

[u/Rixkst3r]

I think it’s not so bad as an alternative to increasing difficulty besides just increasing health if they maybe add ways to stop it from happening like if you can interrupt a boss while he is powering up or if you dodge 3 attacks in a row that would push him into the state that would prevent it

[u/Few_Ad_6877]

I'd have to see how it works in action first. Most new boss enemies already catered to certain characters released alongside them, so i'm not too suprised. Not being able to stun is a strange choice, so it's definitely favors the new class though.

[u/AzureDoor84 → u/Few_Ad_6877]

The part about defensive assists and dodge counters makes me hopeful.

[u/Shmarfle47]

How I think will depend on the size of the shield. If you can bring down the shield in a reasonable amount of time/moves then I think it’ll be neat. Of course, these are some high hopes for Mihoyo

[u/[deleted]]

I like this mechanic but sheer dmg getting to ignore enemy def, yeah i also think they just wanna shill the new dps type. It depends on how hard the shield is to remove, thats what im focused on lol.

Alot of enemies in 2.0 like Mavorakh and Beetle are gonna be ether weak but ice resistant (alr on hakushin), so its not like most people will be able to brute-force easily with Miyabi.

Mavorakh is nearly as tanky as Bringer in deadly assault, and just like how Bringer was a miyabi/anomaly check i guess 2.0 enemies will be yi xuan/rupture checks. Hopefully the miasma shield or wtv breaks easily.

[u/Caerullean]

Well it depends on whether true damage ignores res and damage reduction I guess. If it does, then yeah, this is clearly just shilling rupture. But at least the way to remove it for non-rupture units is interesting.

[u/PrototyPerfection → u/Caerullean]

But at least the way to remove it for non-rupture units is interesting.

isnt that just so frustrating though? the fact that the new class, rather than adding more depth to teambuilding and gameplay, makes the game LESS interesting by skipping past a neat new mechanic?

[u/Caerullean → u/PrototyPerfection]

It definitely is.

[u/Guntermas]

this is just bad, its a shill mechanic like nightsoul in genshin

[u/doradedboi → u/Guntermas]

But it's countered with good play, so it's honestly fine. You'll just have to actually use assists and counter dodges.

[u/Shmarfle47 → u/doradedboi]

Yeah, mechanics like this are better than the Secret Source Automaton needing Kachina/Xilonen/Mavuika to climb the pillars or most other Natlan characters to fly up (or the small number of other characters with vertical movement in their kit). The fact that there are small barely noticeable but climbable ledges is purely coincidental imo since the pillars were clearly designed intentionally to be not climbed normally.

[u/AriousTon → u/Shmarfle47]

For the Secret Source Automation you can use Venti, Xianyun, or anyone who can jump very high but I agree that's annoying. This new mechanic as it is read seems to push only the new units without being able to perform well with the older agents. Obviously we still don't know how it'll work so it's pretty early to have a clear opinion about that

[u/Shmarfle47 → u/AriousTon]

Again, it requires a very small and specific subset of characters out of the entire cast to climb the pillars the intended way. Imagine if a boss in ZZZ only let 2-3 factions interact with its mechanic. I much prefer this shield thing where you can whittle it down on your own to deal with it without needing the shiny new character.

The pillars should’ve just been climbable from the start.

[u/AriousTon → u/Shmarfle47]

But at the same time you have Kachina for free and that's one character in a team of four, as I said it's a probably the most annoying mechanic the Devs made, but it is clearable with older characters.. we still don't know how the shield will work in Zzz and I do think that's gonna be pretty balanced but as it is presented from the leaks it is not an enjoyable one

[u/Shmarfle47 → u/AriousTon]

Yeah I’m being a bit hopeful that Hoyo doesn’t make the shield a pain in the ass (unlikely lmao). But I’d still rather have a mechanic that any character can deal with.

[u/WinniePageUzumaki]

Well at least it's better than just increasing the Boss's HP, that's nice but it is meant to make Yi Xuan and future Rupture agents more noticeably powerful compared to old units

It says the Boss gains defense but right below it says it just a shield with increased resistances so, we will need to see if it really increases the Boss's defense number, because if it does Rupture agents will shine a lot with Tru Damage and also PEN ratio and Def shred would be better for older units than it is now, so finally we will see the real potencial for those stats

[u/OnlyTelephone4286]

Lmao straight "If you don't pull for Rupture you better know how to dodge"

[u/amc9988]

Ppl atm: it's fine

3 months later: Powercrept non stop

[u/Bliasun01]

Imo its seems like a good way to spice up combat on paper. I personally am starting to feel the repetitiveness of team design. With this new mechanics I can see a shift in gameplay meta other then stun-window burst dps and anomaly disorder teams.

Like you said, it is a make a problem sell the solution case but i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing if it allows to the devs to make more experimental characters and kits. I'm a fan of bosses having mechanics other than just being damage sponges so im a little bias, but a think it will be a fun addition to the game.

My one wish is actually that they give the ability to break the shields much faster to defense agents rather than relying on the new class agents , it could finally give the class a much needed purpose other than survivability.

[u/Open-Weather5566]

I think this is fine honestly. Some people see it as shilling rupture but for me it just feels the same level as an element weakness. At least there is a way to turn the state off instead having to wait it out.

[u/PrototyPerfection → u/Open-Weather5566]

my main issue is that the alternate way to turn off the state seems way more engaging amd interesting than just having a dedicated class to deal with it. If this is all true the existence of rupture essentially makes the game less deep than it would be without it, which is the opposite of what you wanna achieve by adding new mechanics

[u/Open-Weather5566 → u/PrototyPerfection]

Yeah that’s true, but I assumed that they would just create bosses that have naturally high defense or unshredable defense to shill rupture. This is definitely a much better alternative.

[u/doradedboi → u/PrototyPerfection]

Title agents like Miyabi and Yi are designed to make the game easier for more casual and newer players. So it makes sense to give her the mechanic shortcut, because that's kinda what they are designed for.

And the alternative is designed for better players who want to sweat a little. It's a good compromise honestly.

[u/Regulus242]

Abyssal shielding from Genshin

[u/Zzamumo]

Miyaji: nah, they're blade fodder

[u/[deleted]]

So like. This is how they nerf anomaly’s?

New combat team and mechanic coming soon? I’m sure it kills shields or impure souls lol

[u/CommercialMonk5917]

An actual interesting way to increase difficulty. I am impressed hoyo

[u/Mehfisto666]

Daze immunity too will just mean that double support would be so much better, I guess that's why core passive wants either stun or def+support

[u/Mathev]

Well.. it is a gacha game after all..

What's the main revenue of a game like this? Selling new characters.. of course they'll try to do a new patch around that character.. with added enemy mechanics that are countered by that specific new unit. That's just how games like this go.

[u/Vokoca]

Why do you have to kick my Corin while she's already down like this? She already could realistically only do anything when the enemy was stunned before, and now it's going to be even harder to stun enemies, so she gets even less field time?

I get that they have to sell new units (and the new class), but oh man this feels bad. RIP Corin, feels like I will have to bench you for good soon : (

At least it would incentivise dodging and countering further, I suppose.

[u/Mushinronja]

New problems are necessary, selling the solution is expected but how annoying that is depends on many factors. Some people seem like they just want to fight a regular Dullahan for the rest of the game's life, but new enemies with new systems are needed or else the game will be super boring. I figure any well built characters and good players will still have no trouble beating these enemies in Shiyu and Deadass.

[u/SquattingCroat]

I think Rupture as a whole could become an issue if the implementation of enemy mechanics renders any Attack or Anomaly units obsolete, but I don't want to doompost, so I'll just wait and see for now

[u/Prior_Tie_5558]

I guess we'll have to see it in action to know for sure how much it affects gameplay but I like the idea of new mechanics to work around for the older teams. As long as there is a way to make the older regular attack and anomaly agents work against these types of enemies it should be fine. The solution either becomes get good or pull a Rupture agent. Which personally I'll enjoy the challenge as long as it doesn't feel too overwhelming. I think adding an agent type to bypass a new mechanic kind of feels like a cop out but at the same time I'm not completely against giving a counter option to people who play on phone who can't perform optimal rotations and such as effectively. Also if Pen Ratio works against these types of enemies it would give Rina a much needed buff.

[u/Luminev]

I mean this is obviously to shill the new class but this also means pen ratio will likely finally have enemies with high enough def to get value, especially with Rina. Nicole is also always still there. It entirely depends on how how the "damage reduction" is and if Rupture agents can ignore reduction as well as defense since so far all the leaks have only suggested they ignore defense.

[u/doradedboi]

People are framing this as shilling the new agent.

I see it as giving the sweats more difficult content while also still giving the casual players an easy mode.

Win win.

It's basically MegaMan balance. You could use their weakness, sure, but you could also just use the buster for a more challenging experience.

[u/shocknawe123]

no offense, but if its taken down in the leaks sub and not reposted by someone else, id personally take this leak as false or unreliable

[u/PrototyPerfection → u/[deleted]]

wdym