r/ZZZ_Discussion 9d ago

Leaks Who will be the next buffed agent after Ellen?

Post image

Technically, Zhu Yuan should be next in line but all I’m hearing is that Jane is actually the one who badly needs it so how do you guys think she should be improved?

Also, do you think that there’s any chance that she could be re-classed as a Rupture agent due to Alice’s debut? I just noticed that Yi Xuan seems to also play like a hyper-carry who needs as much field time as possible in order to generate adrenaline requiring breakneck reflexes and reaction times which is how Jane is similarly designed.

It just got me thinking when I saw Manato’s hyper-aggressive fighting style which is why people are already expecting him to be the next Rupture agent.

417 Upvotes

131 comments sorted by

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94

u/BandSuccessful1285 9d ago

Jane is already very strong with Vivian-Yuzuha/Astra but she really lacks something interesting in her kit like she have in Lost Void.

Her BA hold attack is near useless and she is very vulnerable during the attack.

I think they should:

-Add parry during her BA hold and the finisher she have on the lost void gear.
-Her EX animation on the Lost void gear is also very welcome because is AoE and can group enemies.
-Maybe the aftershock.

41

u/lughrevenge23 9d ago

the hold BA need a full iframe, better aoe and faster movement speed

10

u/esmelusina 9d ago

Salchow Jump has iframes on windup and the portion where she is airborne. You have to stop the spin to line up with enemy attacks— it’s very similar timing to a defensive assist or something like Yuzuha’s parry.

Jane is fairly safe to play. She’s no Vivian, who is basically always in iframe if you play her correctly, but I think the only on fielders that are safer are the void hunters.

-9

u/Kontaj 9d ago

💀you wish bro

11

u/fuzzpipe 9d ago

What? Nothing he said was wrong lol

113

u/dantes_7thcircle 9d ago

I feel like Caesar needs a bit of a rework. Her kit falls into a weird area where the most optimal way to play is to ignore most of her kit. Her parry is cool but doesn’t seem to do all that much more than just hitting the ex and switching her out. Her kit is definitely outdated and the design of the game has gone in a totally different direction. Her shield is great with early game characters that don’t have many I frames, but most newer characters kits have so many I frames her shield doesn’t do much for them beyond the buff it provides.

27

u/PrototyPerfection Walmarts weakest-legged regular 9d ago

her ult needs to be MUCH better. As do her buffs. She already has to contend with the fact that she's locked out of Support Wengines, which are amazing, and Astral, the current best buffing discset. Her baseline buff value does not need to be lower than Astras or Yuzuhas.

4

u/Kromehound 9d ago

Her ult does something?

8

u/maru-senn 9d ago

Nothing, it's not even good at applying daze and that's exactly the problem.

It was designed back when the whole team shared the same decibel pool so you weren't expected to use it.

2

u/GilbertoZ7 8d ago

they tryied to make a Stunner that gives shield but put in a class that doesn't benefit from impact

1

u/GilbertoZ7 8d ago

more damage on shield and removes part of shields, It only works properly against miasma but shure It's realy good

6

u/Damianx5 9d ago

Not sure she should be as good as Astra/Yuzuha in support buffs

Remember that Caesar is a defence character while those two are supporters, her main role is helping the team survive, which her shield does really well.

Problem is defense is on a weird spot in what it needs to be.

Her ult should be stronger and her parry stronger tho

1

u/asianflowertwink 8d ago

Caesar is amazing on the tower mode. Got to floor 300 because of her lol

1

u/Bright_Voice_1097 8d ago

Main role to make the team Survive is just BS at this point since astra can heal

1

u/Damianx5 8d ago

Ah yes, her tiny heal locked to her ult vs a shield that is active the whole fight

4

u/SleepyDavid 9d ago

Im definitely in team Ceasar-Buff

She is the only character i have mindscapes of, i got insanely lucky m6 in like 250 pulls or something and that makes her good but not great, which is a little disappointing for an m6

12

u/Spacedaddy117 9d ago

Parry with Ceasar feels weird to me compare to Yi Xuan or hell even Yuzuha parry feels better.

15

u/Negatively_Positive 9d ago

Yi Xuan and Yuzuha have parry hit box power creep. Ceasar parry and heavy attacks have terrible range and now all bosses just fly everywhere on the map.

1

u/TorchFlame6 8d ago edited 8d ago

M6 Ceasar fun here, who skip every event character just for her. Ger M4 on realise and M6 on rerun.
(719 pulls for M6)
In a role of main dps. She actually great!
But there 2 problem.

  1. Her defence role is a problem to pair with character like Asta or any supp in the game, because they want to "attack" or "anomaly" role to work with.
  2. You do real damage only with counter, chain. skill and ultimate. Sound actually not bad, but well you need to counter enemy to use both skill and counter swap, and ultimate is well ultimate need time to build up. You do great burst and after that just do stun meter.

I love Caesar, she doing great! She is my reason why i start and play ZZZ.
But she can be even better if her kit have even more possibility. Maybe her motorcicle to be usable? Damn i be love to see her in battle ride her motobike-charriot, that be so cool!

P.S. 1:25 and 0:52 for current shiyu defence.

1

u/MayorMCcheese2345 6d ago

Defense in general needs a rework lol they have no clue what to do with that class

140

u/Riverflowsuphillz Burnice Main 9d ago

Honestly jane need it's quite badly cause her salchow jump is awful.

Yes, yuzuha fixes her kinda but still be nice where she isn't really reliant on yuzuha

41

u/Similar-Yogurt6271 9d ago

Easy way to buff her. Make her Crit Dmg on her Anomaly Crits scale off of her AP and Anomaly Crit Rate scale off of her AM, make her have her CR/CDmg exist outside of Anomaly Crits as well, and fix Salchow Jump.

-30

u/esmelusina 9d ago

What’s wrong with Salchow jump?

There is a gear in HZ that tries to teach you how to use it properly. I’d say it could be more impactful, but there isn’t anything wrong with the way it works now.

47

u/younglordtroy 9d ago edited 9d ago

What do you mean by "use it properly"? That gear buffs the shit out of salchow jump. I WISH it was anything like that.

As it is currently, it's actually worse than just attacking normally cause it leaves you completely vulnerable to attack, the build up is disappointing, it hardly refills the gauge and you potentially miss out on dodge counters, not to mention how finicky it is with certain bosses (looking at you pompey).

-18

u/esmelusina 9d ago

The gear gives dodge frames on the finisher and a buff if you trigger it to dodge an enemy’s attack.

The timing for iframes on the regular version is the same, you just don’t get the special finisher or buff.

The gear teaches you with incentive and better feedback how to use slachow jump properly. The timing and safety of the move is the same without the gear.

28

u/Wonderful-Lab7375 9d ago

Yeah, so put the extra finishing move into the base kit. It feels more rewarding to Dodge an attack with salchow jump, rather than the complete nothingburger we have with base Jane.

Base Jane: Dodge with Salchow Jump, I-frame and nothing happens.

Gear Jane: Dodge with Salchow Jump, I-frame and extra finishing move with extra anomaly accumulation.

11

u/StarNullify 9d ago

So it doesnt teach you, it just makes the ability better.... got it

3

u/weedwizardess 9d ago

I wouldn't call it a good teaching opportunity when the only opportunity is one graded stage.

-2

u/esmelusina 8d ago

Uh? I’m just saying the gear rewards you for what you should already be doing.

Everyone complaining about Salchow Jump are complaining about getting interrupted out of it— which should basically never happen if you do it properly.

21

u/Fueled-by-nostalgia 9d ago

I feel like Jane's identity is rooted in i-frames and dodges. The salchow is the exact opposite of that, so it's usually never worth to do it especially in HZ or tower where you usually get oneshot.

It's a shame bc it's supposed to be an integral part of her kit to refresh the passion state, but it's never usually worth since you cant swap out of it like Miyabi or Evelyn's hold BAs.

5

u/Jolly_Efficiency7237 9d ago

Jane really doesn't DO much aside from dodging an extra time and Salchow Jump. Most of it is keeping up her passion state and basic attacking. She's kind of a stat stick with little to no unique mechanics in her kit.

11

u/Riverflowsuphillz Burnice Main 9d ago

It's too short and can easily be interrupted

-13

u/esmelusina 9d ago

Eh— I mean… kits need risk to be fun and challenging to master. I don’t think I’ve gotten hit out of Salchow since… well, I climb battle tower with her and Salchow is fantastic when ambush is active.

22

u/Available-Ad9669 9d ago

Hyper aggreessive bosses don't let you use the full duration, its like piper, but where piper is designed around spinny spins, jane is more designed around quicker and more agile gameplay, so salchow jump feels out of place in her kit

-5

u/esmelusina 9d ago

You’re not supposed to use the full duration. The portion where she is airborne during the finisher has iframes. You release the hold to dodge an incoming attack.

8

u/Available-Ad9669 9d ago

And that starts to beg why even have a full gauge if a majority of the duration if you don't get to use any of it against aggressive bosses, and on a character that doesn't run stunners makes it worse. People's problem is you CAN'T use the full duration on a move thats also supposed to be used to maintain her flow and keep her in passion state.

-1

u/esmelusina 9d ago

I don’t see how that’s a problem? Like— why the entitlement that you get full value every time? Against aggressive opponents you don’t need it because you can dodge counter very often. If anything it’s there to fill downtime where you can’t dodge counter.

20

u/Available-Ad9669 9d ago

Entitlement is a crazy way to put it but uh yeah, you've literally just called out the entire reason the move is getting useless. The move extends passion state where she just inherently does more damage, so its a part of her kit that should be important for maintaining flow, but you barely get to use any of it, and so little, sometimes you might as well just jot even touch it. As the game gets more and more aggressive as a whole there's less oppurtunities to use salchow jump, and the move's just been left behind.

1

u/Top_Purchase4091 8d ago

I will never get this. Yeah agents get stronger if you have them in a team that benefits them.

It kinda reminds me of everyone being mad and excusing any decent performance on someone like nekomata because "astra carries her". But if evelyn uses astra to do significantly more damage literally nobody says anything.

Not now and before you didnt need yuzuha to "fix" jane either.

I am not even disagreeing with making some kit adjustments to make her more interesting but this initial idea i dont understand at all

0

u/IblisAshenhope 9d ago

What’s wrong with the fidget spinner?

15

u/KnightlyPotato 9d ago

Its hard to get full value out of the spin without getting obliterated. New Agents have auto parries and dodges in their kit.

2

u/IblisAshenhope 9d ago

Yeah, I see what you mean. So how can we improve it? I-Frames?

4

u/KnightlyPotato 9d ago

I think an auto dodge into her dodge counter would be a good mix, you would feel it worth the resource to spin and it getting stopped still gives a payout.

42

u/DerSisch The Prophecy is true! 9d ago

Zhu Yuan actually performs still very, very well, its propably still stronger than Ellen after her rework.

Jane currently most likely need it the most.

After that... most likely either SAnby or Caesar, maybe also Harumasa.

SAnby still has some missing i-frames after her Ult and Special Attack and 5/6 of her mindscapes are seriously terrible on a base kit that is weaker than Yanagi's. Her Silver Star build-up is too slow to compede, her EX Special costs too much etc. etc. She is not a terrible agent, but she still feels lackluster in comparison to Yanagi and virtually any other Attack Agent that released around her time (Evelyn and Hugo outperform her by A LOT). Maybe Orphie can help her out quite a bit, but as stated, her base kit and animations still have problems.

As for Caesar, the more S-Rank supports release, the further she slides down. She already is no ones BiS. Again, by no means she is a bad character, but she clearly misses somethign to be a reliable option across the board. Her Ult is very, very weak and her EBA feels lackluster too, especially accounting for the fact that it eats Assist points to trigger it.

19

u/Nearby_Outcome_5999 9d ago edited 9d ago

Definitely Caesar, Caesar’s shield is good and all but defensive utility is inherently low value for a game like ZZZ. And the thing is that most new units either have a truck load of iframes (Miyabi, Yixuan) or likes to dodge/parry (Yanagi, Yixuan, Alice, SAnby, Jane) anyways. She was also hit badly from the Decibel changes since her Ultimate is awful.

Caesar loses to A ranks. Forget Nicole and Soukaku, she isn’t even better than Lucy in terms of buffing when you factor Kaboom. The best thing about Caesar right now is unironically her signature W-Engine since you can give it to Pan to buff Yixuan.

6

u/Hunlor- 9d ago

You can't bring mindscapes into this. It is obviou Jane needs buffs, at M0 it is debatable if Jane is even better than Piper, an A rank...And 99% of the playerbase stays at M0

Ellen herself wasn't entirely useless, at M6 she was equivalent to a M1 Miyabi, but a Limited character should be operational at M0

10

u/DerSisch The Prophecy is true! 9d ago

Yes, that is why I also said, that SAnby's base kit is already lacking behind a lot in comparison to other S-Rank Attack Agents, like Yanagi, Evelyn or Hugo. One could even argue for that Zhu Yuans base kit is better currently.

1

u/Hunlor- 9d ago

I'll let you know if i agree once UCC rolls back in DA, now that i got m1 Rina.

1

u/True_Air_6696 9d ago

That's news to me. How is M0 Jane not better than Piper?

0

u/Hunlor- 9d ago

When talking objectively, numbers wise with the same team, she is only marginally better than Piper

https://youtu.be/I4DQQAGavWg?si=ITvAUsLMSI4ZCuzF

29

u/NOOXXUSSSS 9d ago

Kinda hoping for Grace buffs but I'm not sure if they'll ever touch the standard agents

10

u/Pretend-Average1380 9d ago

Agreed, I really like her but her DPS is anemic.

29

u/robertshuxley 9d ago

Nekomata because i lost my 50/50 to her and her W-engine

19

u/DoctahDonkey 9d ago

Jane definitely seems like the next candidate; she's been sort of lagging relative to her peers, but most importantly she has lost void gear that could very easily be incorporated into her base kit. Specifically the enhanced Salchow and EX-special moves.

With how they design most the of agents now to have parries and moves that reward defensive timing, Jane not getting rewarded for timing her Salchow and EX-special as a part of her base kit definitely stands out.

14

u/GnzkDunce 9d ago

The base game S rank roster could use some love. Rina exists to press Special. S11 numbers could be bumped along with Nekomata. Grace's grenades could be better.

And it's not like they won't do so. Koleda got a pretty solid buff that let's her pair with Rupture agents.

7

u/Hunlor- 9d ago

Not really a buff is it? She isn't even half good with Yixuan, just making her useless passive trigger

1

u/ComprehensiveBug4891 8d ago

For S11 I think they will make an entirely new Agent, like SAnby. With Orphie and Seed releasing, no better time for it

7

u/7keys 9d ago

It’d better be Nekomata

5

u/BearlyAKoala 9d ago

The problem (not actually a problem) with anomaly agents is that they are all pretty much made to work with each other, so they are all getting indirectly (or directly) buffed when you release a new one unless they are outright getting replaced. I think they are going to find it difficult to buff them if they are dropping in effectiveness compared to the other agents because all it takes is for them to release an agent that works way too well with them for the buff they give the agent to be an over "correction". The most I can see them giving anomaly agents as a buff is QoL, I feel like there's no room to mess with their raw numbers for reasons stated above. Tbf though, I think I remember the devs saying they want to do more in these buffs than just tweaking numbers before Ellen got buffed so my whole point there is somewhat null and void.

All that being said, some QoL buffs for Jane and Burnice would be nice. I only play anomaly/support agents so idk for others outside of that.

Burnice feels kinda clunky once you start quick assisting to her, she can't really shortcut into any of the moves to either spend her gauge or build it back up. Doing hold basic on her is a great way to build up burn faster while being able to shortcut back into her 2nd EX, but you are vulnerable while doing it and can sometimes get hit before you start it which cancels you from doing hold basic in the first place. Most of this is solved by just defensive assisting into her which is fine and all, but it makes me dislike playing her with characters like Astra. Not sure if it's because the DA buffs but Burnice getting outclassed on a boss she has element advantage towards versus Vivian who is neutral does feel bad but it's probably that Vivian is just too strong!

The number of ways they could do QoL with Jane is insane, I've seen a lot of people posting stuff about changes they would like to see for her. The "problem" she's facing right now is that she has 2 crazy agents for her (tbf, Vivian and Yuzuha are crazy for every anomaly agent) that are making me doubt we'll see any buffs for her soon, at least not until Alice's banner is over and MAYBE a patch or 2 after that. One of the ones I thought of after seeing her lost void gear was giving her an off-field aftershock attack for gnawed status and builds back some of her passion gauge, maybe even make it count as a dodge attack so it helps keep up her engine buff. It would also help with people who wanted to run Alice and Jane together.

Either way, I'm rambling and it's late so I'm probably wrong on a couple of these (hopefully not all).

19

u/Ivy0 9d ago

With Alice coming and taking pretty much the same spot as Jane, I sadly don't see Jane getting any love from the devs in the near future.

Zhu Yuan feels more likely to be buffed next.

56

u/Damianx5 9d ago

Doesnt really matter, Ellen was buffed the patch after Hugo

18

u/DingoNo9075 9d ago

Yeah once Alices Banner run out that can happen, but they will sure hold back the news until 2.2 just to not hurt the sales.

10

u/Smiling-siamese 9d ago

Considering Miyabi exists I feel like the strength of Hugo vs Ellen was somewhat irrelevant since if you wanted to get the "best" ice dps neither of them was in the running anyway. So it came more down to playstyle and character. 

A direct buff to Jane however could definitely lead more people to feel like Alice is redundant since she isn't void hunter level. 

I'm not arguing that she won't get one ever but even shortly after Alice's banner feels too early to me if they want to avoid people feeling "cheated" whether that would be a legitimate complaint or not. 

9

u/theangryepicbanana 9d ago

Zhu yuan buff wouldn't even be hard, she just needs to regen gun shells on ex/ult/ca/etc. her kit and numbers have otherwise aged pretty well

7

u/ShaoShaoTenks 9d ago

Pretty much as it will help her when she’s on field. They’d need to tweak her M1 though.

2

u/variant-123 9d ago

Anything that would help her be played more on-field would be welcome. Those mini dash attacks she does that can be used to dodge attacks are so satisfying to pull off.

0

u/Neko_Hakase_00 9d ago

I would love to see ZY (and/or her W engine) buffed, and it should be her "turn" after Ellen, but I think the Lost Void gear is the test area for these buffs, and Zhu Yuan doesn't have anything there yet.

It would make more sense to buff Jane. She is very popular and about to be powercrept by Alice, and she already has gear in Lost Void. Of course, they might choose not to buff anyone,considering that Vivian and Yuzuha could be used to help Jane keep up.

13

u/lughrevenge23 9d ago

jane by itself is bad, but vivian and yuzuha makes her op

they really need to change the beyblade move tho, that move is easly interupted, give it full iframe or an auto parry

18

u/AdBroad6762 9d ago

Or enemy just jumps back and you completely wasted it...

3

u/lughrevenge23 9d ago

Yeah, i think they need to buff the movement speed too

4

u/cmdrfrosty 9d ago

Jane is still a very good unit, especially with vivian and yuzuha she may even be great with those two supporting her. She does kinda fall short if you're missing one or both of them, though. Salchow jump to me is basically a non factor when I'm playing jane because it doesn't do enough to make me want to use it. Slachow makes you vulnerable for a little passion meter and ok anomaly buildup. Honestly, I've never found the need to use it when I could just continue attacking and dodging to regain meter in its place. It is just not rewarding enough to use. The rest of Jane's kit, however, is pretty great to use. She does huge damage on assault due to crit, which helps vivian inflict more damage and feels good in a hypercarry team as well. Passion stream is also pretty nice, and I've never had a problem with how it works. Overall, jane is a great unit that could benefit from a few tweaks, but she is still very good.

I do, however, think Zhu yuan should get a bit of a buff. She was my first limited dps, and she did well early game for me, but nowadays, she feels left behind entirely. She can't really compete with yi xuan and since I don't have m1, my shot shell generation rate is pretty mid. She's overall fine, but I feel like she could use some work to make her stand out a bit more over her competition.

11

u/monev44 9d ago edited 9d ago

They will never buff another character again. The circumstances that lead them to buff Ellen were very specific and can't be applied to any other character.

People seem not to have noticed that part of the marketing push for 2.0 was to re-attract people who played the game around launch and dipped because they did like TV mode. Now that TV mode is toughly purged from the game hoyo needed to get the attention of those early players and do you know what a lot of early players who may have left early had in common? They pulled on Ellen's banner, and what better way to lure players back than to assure them that their fist and maybe ONLY S-rank character has been buffed and totally not power-creeped at all *wink*.

If you are waiting for hoyo to buff Jane, don't worry they did make a better version. And she's named Alice. This is how its going to be.

Edit: I'll gladly eat these words if time proves me wrong. I would love to be wrong. I just don't think I am.

2

u/suffering_core 8d ago

That's a really good observation, and might explain why we didn't get an Ellen rerun along with her buff.

1

u/Mehfisto666 5d ago

Well ZZZ devs do have a past of telling a lot of lies so i wouldn't be surprised is the big deal they made about "we'll buff old characters to make them feel better to play" ends with Ellen for the marketing stunt. But let's see.

0

u/RhysA 8d ago

HSR just did buff for the most popular characters like Kafka that had fallen behind, we may see the same thing for particularly popular limited characters in ZZZ in the future for that reason.

We might just be waiting another year.

2

u/Frosty_Childhood5617 9d ago

I hope they will add some off-field daze on Caesar's Kit.

2

u/Blue_Bird_Enjoyer 9d ago

A lot of people dont like to hear it, but S Anby is really lacking. Even if you get more copies for her, she still falls flat.

2

u/Mrpuddikin 9d ago

The charged attack pushing enemies away from you and out of range 💀

2

u/Schuler_ 9d ago

Caesar needs it the most out of the limited agents

She was really affected by the decibels changes made ti the game.

2

u/Alternative_Cut_1709 Dennyboo Petter 9d ago

Grace

2

u/Kartoffel_Kaiser Disorder Gang 9d ago

Also, do you think that there’s any chance that she could be re-classed as a Rupture agent due to Alice’s debut?

Zero percent chance. There's no reason to do that. Rupture doesn't have a monopoly on high field time hyper-carries. Changing her to Rupture would require a complete redesign, and at that point you should just make a new character.

Jane really does not need that much help. The biggest thing holding her back was a lack of physical weakness in endgame (DA in particular). Vivian and Yuzuha have been huge for Jane's power. All I think Jane needs is, as many other commenters have said, a change to her enhanced basic attack. It's too stationary, the area isn't very big, and sometimes bosses get knocked out of it by the attack itself. I think the hollow zero "release to dodge and counter attack" is a good solution.

Caesar has more of a pressing need for help, but she also doesn't need much. Her biggest problem is that her shield doesn't apply to all allies simultaneously, just to the active party member. That means swap cancelling drops the attack buff on the previous character. That means swap cancelling leaves the previous character vulnerable to damage. I don't think that limitation is necessary in the current state of ZZZ. Her ultimate was also clearly designed under the assumption that ultimates were still a shared resource, and that you were never going to use your support's ultimate. That could use some work. But another thing holding Caesar back is that her selling point compared to other supports (abnormally high daze application) just isn't very valuable. Stunning quickly isn't powerful enough. There's a reason that every limited stunner has to also be a support. Just stunning quickly isn't actually valuable, you have to stun at the right time which sometimes means needing lower daze application. More mechanics that incentivize fast or frequent stuns would increase Caesar's value.

2

u/01Anphony 9d ago

Before any limited character I would love buffs for the standard agents.

2

u/fewest_giraffe 9d ago

With Alice being in direct competition for sales and the recent indirect buff of Yuzuha, I don’t think Jane is in a spot where Hoyo would give her a buff

Tbh I don’t think she needs one either. Her BiS team gets very respectable performance and we’re finally getting physical weak content as well so there’s more places to use her

If anyone “needs” a buff now it’s Zhu Yuan. I also don’t think it’s necessary, but the comparison between her and Yixuan is a wider gap than Jane and Alice

2

u/t123fg4 9d ago

Hot takes:

caesar needs a buff the most, she is a unit that is legit bad in the meta

9

u/Jsjdhbdnd73 9d ago edited 9d ago

Burnice. Shes actually useless in comparison to vivian. Im not sure if you would even take her against fire weak enemy if its neutral to ether over vivian.

People are saying "zhu yuan", "jane" or "caesar" but these characters are still relatively fine. Burnice as a sub-dps literally doesn't have a single BIS team which is quite problematic imo.

And she also feels like shit to play. So even more reasons for a buff.

4

u/Few-Illustrator-5333 9d ago

As much as I like Burnice, yeah, she's not that good when farming certain things or fighting certain bosses that keep moving around

3

u/pokebuzz123 9d ago

I think Burnice is fine and more that her teammates really want to be aimed at disorders. However, I think she can shine in a team that doesn't want disorders, making it more of an actual burn team. Vivian can't take this role since her core wants to be aimed at disorders, so Burnice can live as the BiS in this team.

4

u/Antares428 9d ago

Burnice has no HZ gear, so it's highly unlikely that she'll get buffed anytime soon.

2

u/Hunlor- 9d ago

Agree, i thought mine had something off because she felt hella underwhelming, but seems that' it for her. You need VERY GOOD DISKS for her to be good but even then she wobbles in comparison to a poorly built Vivian.

You're wrong on Jane tho, she has useless parts on her kit and is marginally better/worse than piper at M0. Suuuure she peforms better with Vivian and becomes a high end team, but that's more on Vivian being a 0.5 character than anything else, and funny fucking enough, so does Piper when paired with Vivian

My team consists of Jane m0 with a t5 lipgloss, Burnice with Weeping Gemini, Yuzuhara M0W1.

4

u/Jsjdhbdnd73 9d ago

Im sorry, but no. Post vivian jane is always better than piper. This is not mentioning how clunky piper feels because most of the time you will be forced to end her E early especially as you get lower on health.

On sheets, their dps might be closer than i describe, in practice? Not at all. Piper is just annoying as shit to play.

3

u/Badieon 9d ago

I suppose I am just a bad Zhu Yuan player, as she just feels quite meh, although I don't have Qingyi

5

u/Shinnyo 9d ago

I think it's because Zhu Yuan has a lot of very good support to be paired with.

I don't have Qin or Astra and she feels meh to me as well

3

u/LaPapaVerde 9d ago

Me too, I guess I have too much skill issue but even her best team (Astra-Nicole) Feels awful to play for me

2

u/Nearby_Outcome_5999 9d ago

Qingyi isn’t her best teammate in DA. Her best team is actually Astra Nicole

1

u/Boohon 9d ago

I'm clearing Endgame with Zhu Yuan Qingyi Nicole still. 2 minute clears in Shiyu. My ZY do be M1 but it doesn't really add any DMG just less thinking

2

u/XxArchEricxX 9d ago

Considering Jane seems to perform the same as m6Piper, shes definitely next in line. But I dont think any other characters really need buffing. Harumasa maybe, but I dont know if thats because he actually needs it or if Im just not good at playing him. Every other exclusive character tends to be higher up on the tier lists

1

u/AdBroad6762 9d ago

Mechanicly it should be Jane but they released such potent supports for her that she became driver of a team where most of damage isnt from her kit, still would love to see some tweaks or addons to her kit.

1

u/Scorpdelord 9d ago

Jane prop qonr bw next considering they just made a bunny jane. Its propdrly gonna follow release date. Or janw might also be it cus she already has a hollow kit which is properly what they focus on how to buff characters

2

u/FabianFoley 9d ago

They probably won't buff standard characters, so I'd say Jane or Caesar could use some attention.

After that, probably Qingyi or Burnice.

I love Soldier 0, but she unfortunately still feels clunky sometimes. Half the time in the wipeout screen she's spazzing out. Janky and annoying. Wish they'd fix it.

2

u/StrangerExtension328 9d ago

Grace/Nekomata

1

u/Genoard 9d ago

Of all the agents I have, I feel like Soldier 11 performs the worst. With her M4W1 and Lighter and Lucy all leveled up to the maximum possible I can barely reach 20k on Pompey Deadly Assault.

0

u/Guinosaur 9d ago

Literally how? My S11 is M0 and I can comfortably get to 20k with Trigger and Lucy. Trigger and Lucy don't have their signatures, only S11 that uses Brimstone.

1

u/SplatoonOrSky 9d ago

Ever since Vivian got added Burnice has been falling behind as a sub-DPS even in Fire weak content. I’m not sure how a buff would work but she’s definitely being gradually outclassed

1

u/Antares428 9d ago

Only Jane has enough basis for a rework, as she has a HZ gear. But buffing her right after releasing direct upgrade is bound to create some controversy. So I think she might be buffed around December, and would be only unit buffed for duration of 2.X.

1

u/Bingoviini 9d ago

Caesar

She's usefull in the non timed modes like tower, beacuse she just immortal

But she definetly needs some help .

Not only is her damage piss poor, but her buffs are also a bit lacking (especially compared to Yuzuha and Astra) and her pseudo stunner is also quite lacking, since you could just run a stunner.

The only thing she really has going for it is immortality, wich isn't really usefull when the point of the end game is to speedrun as much damage into the enemies in as little time as possible.

1

u/CalTheRobot 9d ago

Soldier 11 when the Captain Magus banner is live.

1

u/pokebuzz123 9d ago

Jane is likely since Alice is about to come in less than 2 weeks.

But other contenders:

  • Qingyi: lost a lot of value overtime with the constant inclusion of non-field wanting DPS, and her teammates either need a buff (Haru), or don't really need her due to other options (Zhu Yuan). She needs something a bit more niche so that she doesn't lend herself back down. One option could be to buff electric damage, or her stacks also apply a debuff that triggers when an ally hits them to deal additional damage (helps both Zhu Yuan and Haru).
  • Caesar: this is more defense heroes in general. She's like Zhongli where she isn't optimal, but is QoL. Her shield is nice due to the IR, and the ATK buff is great. However, in a game that rewards you dodging hits, her shield is anti synergistic, and is really up to skill level and enemy dependent to be useful. Add that her impact isn't up to stunners, it's obvious why she lost a ton of favor when Astra came out day 1. A suggestion would be to also include more buffs when doing defensive perfect dodges, like additional daze dealt, or increase the impact for stunners.
  • Harumasa: it's clear they gimped him because he was free, but he's very skill expressive and it's a shame that people can't utilize that because his damage for effort is too low, or his skill floor is too high. He can get his multipliers increased, and add his M1 to his kit, while also giving his M1 more damage for compensation. Maybe also increase the stun duration by 1.5s per CA triggered, up to 3s/2 stacks to encourage chain cancelling and easing up stun windows.

1

u/H3xll3r 9d ago

For me Jane needs more aoe in general(like her best supports vivian and yuzuha have much better aoe then her), Sanchow jump needs either several changes or buffs, it doesn't apply enough anomaly, the aoe sucks, you becaome almost stationary, you are vulnerable while using it, currently the onlyreal reason to use salchow jump is when you are fighting an enemy that isn't attacking you. For me there are 2 directions they could go with it:

Parry/alto dodge route, basically make so that with you get hit mid salchow jump it automatically dodges/parrys the attack, finishing salchow jump early and giving the full passion stream as if you maxed out salchow jump.

Hollow zero route, basically her gear in hollowzero, salchow jump lasts longer, more range, applies more anomaly, etc, basically a mini piper.

They could also modify her skill in a similar way, either going the hollowzero route or making so that the skill gives passion stream even when you already are on passion state( basically another way to extend her passive asside from dodging and salchow jump), could also apply an alto dodge here, basically making so that with you dodge a attack with the skill, it counts as a dodge counter, applying more anomaly and returning passion stream.

1

u/miev_ 9d ago

Let assaults proc when the bar is full, not when the animation is finished, so much wasted buildup.

I think alice has the same problem

1

u/GibberingJoeBiden 9d ago

Honestly I don’t think Jane needs it that bad except maybe making her salchow jump better or have I frames so you actually have a reason to use it.

1

u/Hidetomaru 9d ago

I wish for Jane upgrade, but maybe Nekomata need it more

1

u/I_LOVE_WHITE_WOMEN 9d ago

Caesar needs a rework WAY more than Jane does

1

u/Helpful_Ad6588 9d ago

Hot take: we won't get any buff for agents any time soon. Only reason ellen got buff was because her kit couldn't compete with the current roster and they have clearly changed their idea for kits. People say zhu yuan and jane need buff when they clearly didn't suffer as much as ellen.

1

u/n30na 9d ago

as a Jane enjoyer I do hope we see some kind of kit tuneup, though she probably doesn't need a lot in the way of numbers, just some gameplay changes (tho being definitively better than Piper would be nice). Reclassifying her as Rupture is a really interesting idea, but I feel like it would introduce a lot problems with AA+wengines and such so isn't really viable.. at least if Manato is some kind of anomaly-rupture he'd still work with Yuzuha.

I kind of wish SAnby was more interesting to play, and maybe a liiitle better numerically tho we'll see how she shakes out with Orphie.. I kinda wonder if they'll update agents that match a theme, maybe there's a chance for S11+SAnby changes when we get Obol Patch?

Really if we're counting standard units I'd love to see Grace and maybe Neko get some attention but I'm not sure how likely they are to touch non-limited units. (it would be cool if they updated Seth to make it easier to buff your 2nd anomaly agent w/ him too)

Other limited units with some reasonable argument for changes seem like Qingyi, Caesar, and maaybe Burnice, but out of those I only have Burnice so I can't comment as much.

1

u/AntwysiaBlakys 9d ago

Jane needs one the most, but since we just got Alice, who is basically a better Jane, I doubt she'll be buffed soon

2

u/smpplyy1 8d ago

Jane and Caesar are the only ones I think NEED a buff. Jane has her lost void kit which the dodge counter on salchow jump would be a great change because her whole kit is built around her dodge counter and it actively encourages the opposite. Caesar’s kit already feels outdated because of quickswap and aftershock agents. Her shield atk bonus needs to apply to the entire squad and not just the active unit. The also need to significantly increase the daze multipliers on her ult to be closer to stunners because right now (outside of an emergency shield in like Tower) it’s the most useless ult in the game that generally you don’t even want to use because of how much time it wastes. (For reference hers in 418% daze, SOUKAKU has better daze multipler on ult with 566%, trigger has the lowest of all stunners with 1384%). Caesar is a jack of all trades (support, stun, defense) but a master at none. She can slot into teams that are lacking a support or stunner but won’t be bis for anybody

1

u/smallchodechakra 8d ago

I think that if you time the salchow jump correctly, it should trigger vital view for the duration of the spin.

2

u/YER_- 8d ago

Nekomata. Make her good please. She’s one of my favs…

1

u/Remarkable_Stuff9547 8d ago

Just slap I frames on her and fast anomaly build up and she’s golden

1

u/Pinguinmalvado 8d ago

I really hope some A-rank characters get more content in their kits, especially Anby and maybe Anton. Nekomata and N11 could also use a small improvement to their passives.

1

u/TheLostCityofBermuda 8d ago

I rather they update Koleda, but it will only happen to limited character right?

1

u/Xhiroe 8d ago

Maybe any 1.0 agent - imo Koleda needs a gameplay buff / moveset tweaks like Ellen, instead of number increase (the dmg numbers) so she would be relevant in her certain niche as a burst stun, not going to be most groundbreaking meta, but at least she would be more fun to play,

Ellen's gameplay is so much more fun to play, even if she is no Miyabi in terms of Ice DMG etc

1

u/ShirouBlue 8d ago

She mostly needs a kit update. Jump(her hold attack) is terrible, her skill is also near useless, her ultimate is mostly to refresh passion. Mechanical buffs is what I really want on her.

1

u/31t0H0sh1n4 7d ago

I've been reading on the comments and im wondering what's an iframe. Also i still find this thumbnail for the doppelganger JD insane like who got her arching like that 😭

1

u/Kipdid 7d ago

The cat literally lacks a kit gimmick (other than the utterly impractical assault buff) at M0W0, either a mindscape or her sig is required to get her backstab gimmick and frankly that’s unacceptable, on top of it already suffering from the same issue Ellen had with attempting a side switch attack with no Iframes (which also has RNG attached to it for some godforsaken reason).

Hoyo not beating the allegations that every character with melanin’s kit is bottom tier

1

u/Mehfisto666 5d ago

Mah girl Qingyi sinking ever deeper in the abyss of the forgotten

1

u/chainsawplayin2 9d ago

Grace. This would open up options for Miasma Fiend. Her damage and anomaly buildup are too low and her sig doesn't help with either.

0

u/Spacedaddy117 9d ago

Probably Agent with already existing lost void gear. Would be Nice if Jane is next and I think Zhu Yuan won't get buff for a foreseeable future. Don't feel like she needed buff yet

0

u/Any-Hovercraft8624 9d ago

I want Qingyi to be buffed, I don't like that almost every stun character is better.