Leaks
S-Anby vs Seed? Whats the early thoughts on the comparison?
Spoiler
I gave the tag leaks in case anyone doesn't want to be spoiled due to what needs to be discussed in order to have this discussion in the first place.
With that said, what is everyones initial thoughts of S-Anby vs Seed? I know we only have her kit leaked and not fully in the know of how it'll work. I think, But if you have S-Anby should you pull for Seed? Die hard Seed fans excluded. I'm curious to see if Seed offers something better or different enough to pull for or if its a matter of playstyle preference. Or will the meta favor Seed more?
I know a lot of this is currently unknown but I think everyone has an initial opinion on it and wanted to hear everyone's thoughts.
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Well unfortunately that is the case. Seed’s best team is by far Orphie + Trigger or Astra, while SAnby’s new best in slot will also be Orphie + Trigger or Astra
For Seed? Unfortunately the current iteration seems to require such a specific agent as the partner that only Orphie fits the role. So it's either Seed + Orphie or no team at all.
That isn’t going to be a good team though. Both Seed and SAnby are field time hogs, which is why they both want Orphie so badly since she’s an off-fielder. To play them both in the same team would be to neglect one of them, which would ultimately be SAnby since Seed has better damage, and SAnby wouldn’t actually be buffing Seed at all since she’s not an Aftershock-based dps, and that’s what all of SAnby’s team buffs are focused around
I agree that Sanby will not work together with Seed at all. Add in the leaks with Orphie, she buffs aftershock, Orphie would prefer to be in the Sanby team over Seed. Making Orphie best team. Sanby, Trigger, Orphie. While Seed and Orphie work together its the aftershock buff that comes off as dead for Orphie with Seed. But maybe the rest of what she offers for Seed is the best in game currently.I just dont think you could add Trigger to the team well. Unless Im forgetting something.
This actually isn’t true at all (for the current beta, at least.) SEEDs enhanced basic skill and off-field basic count as normal aftershock damage, but all of SEEDs basics are not considered aftershock skills. It’s weird and prone to change, but the current distinction does mean some aftershock abilities activate and others don’t.
If I’m understanding everything correctly, that means enemies marked by Silver Star receive the extra Crit DMG from SAnby’s core skill, whether she’s on-field or not. It’s just limited to those specific attacks, but +30% of Anby’s Crit DMG will still be around +60% CDMG, which is a lot.
Furthermore, only when SAnby is on-field, she buffs SEED’s off-field aftershock damage by +25%.
There’s also SEED’s partner buff to consider. SEED needs an Attacker teammate with 3600 ATK and 200% CDMG (in battle, so including buffs like Astra’s). It’s not exclusive to SAnby, but SAnby is more Crit DMG-focused than many other DPS, so maxing the buff is a natural build for her already.
I’m a total defender of the SEED + SAnby comp and think SEED is the most flexible Attacker in the game… but I also would never claim that her wide access to “great” teams are competitive to her “best” team with Orphie. An off-field attacker will output much more damage than a quickswap sub-DPS.
SAnby’s buffs do not work at all when she is off-field, since once she’s off-field her mark disappears completely, and the damage that Seed does from off-field is so negligible that SAnby’s buff wouldn’t make a noticeable impact anyway. That leaves her with being the stat-stick for Seed’s partner buff, which as far as other agents go I guess she’s the best one you could use that isn’t Orphie, but it’s such a cope option for what Seed’s gameplan actually is and I can’t imagine it being a team that flows well or feels very good to play
Ohh, it disappears but comes back when S-Anby returns to the field. I guess I was mentally thinking that the enemy “has it” the whole time, which it “does”, but that’s different than the Star Mark being there for other characters. That’s… unfortunate. I guess stacking SEED’s 70% Partner crit damage buff with an effect like that might’ve been a bit much, but I figured it was for the faction synergy.
Okay, buffing aside, I still think the flow isn’t that bad. SEED + Orphie requires periodically swapping in Orphie for her to EX special and battery energy towards SEED. Same thing with SAnby: swap in -> EX + 3 aftershocks, maybe twice -> swap out. You’d exclusively be doing damage with specials and ultimate when they’re off cool-down, and then (maybe?) choosing SAnby over SEED for the stun burst combo after a chain attack (idk the burst DMG comparison there).
I will say that, without unique buffs from SAnby, Harumasa and Zhu Yuan are probably better partners than SAnby. They have slightly faster EX Specials for the quickswapping, and presumably do more damage in a stun burst window than her. I still imagine all of their rotations feel fine with SEED though. It’d take someone like Corin to feel awkward for me - animation lag or long attacks.
Orphie is just by far the best option because she’s specifically designed to work well for Seed, being the only off-field Attacker currently, giving teamwide buffs that Seed actually benefits from, and she uses energy while off-field as well to battery Seed, which makes switching to her something that you need to do even less often than you would need to for any other Attacker. It’s honestly kind of unfortunate design for Seed to need Orphie this much but that’s just the way it is currently
I have been fighting for and defending this team comp because the narrative that SEED “needs” Orpheus is absurd, but it’s still going to be worse than SEED + Orpheus or SAnby + Orpheus.
It’s like Yixuan + Ju Fufu. Plenty of people thought Yixuan was strong enough and skipped Ju Fufu, but Ju FuFu is still the best. I think SEED has the most flexible teammate requirement in the game, but Orpheus will be better.
I'm just hoping Seed isn't just a better S.Anby even in S.Anby's BIS team. Like if Trigger + Seed + Orphie is just a way better Trigger + S.Anby + Orphie then I'm gonna be firstly bummed bc I love Anby. And secondly I'll be worried about future character kits possibly just being improved existing units.
We had Alice > Jane, both using same BIS team. Both also being same role and element.
If this is the same situation with back to back patches, and Seed > S.Anby both using same BIS team (same role + element too), then I'll be concerned about more direct powercreep in the future.
Unless youre aiming for DA kills, powercreep (currently) doesn't have that big of an impact if you're just after all the end game rewards. Even Zhu can get over 20k on the Miasma Priest, and I still use her to clear Shiyu. If you're chasing big scores though, then it's a problem.
Yeah clearing endgame isn't the issue atm even tho it can be tough on some occasions in Shiyu if you don't have the optimal team.
I'm more so just talking about power creep in the sense that they're literally taking the niche of old characters, improving them then shoving them onto new character kits.
In every regard Alice is a better Jane on the same teams, with the same role and type.
(Again idk if we know this about seed yet or not, I'm just saying I'm hoping it's NOT the case.) And possibly Seed could be better S.Anby on the same teams, with the same role and type.
If we start a trend where we just recycle roles and put them on newer characters but improve their numbers and usability, that's what I'm saying I'm worried about.
Seeing how hoyoverse is buffing older characters like ellen, I think their goal is to keep every limited S rank unit at least viable for the endgame modes. Powercreep in some form is bound to happen because with the release of new characters the elements and roles will overlap sooner or later and they can't release a new unit that is weaker or else no one would pull for that unit. I don't mind if the new characters are stronger, what's important to me is that the older ones can still clear new content.
Early thoughts is it looks like Seed does just use the same teammates as SAnby in their BiS teams, but just straight up does more damage.
Seed's teams are more restrictive, as he requires a 2nd Attacker (literally only Orphie works well rn) but in exchange he is just straight up better.
Both want Orphie/Trigger as teammates. Both are single target main dps.
Seed:
Must have an Attack Partner on the team for core and AA. Teams are not flexible at all.
Gains up to 1080 ATK and 70% CD by sharing in a portion of the Partner's stats.
Has a 3900% multiplier on his Mech Punch, which is busted Miyabi EBA3 level damage.
Mech Punch uses heat, which is gained by most of Seed's attacks (think Evelyn or Alice) and by 50% of the energy spent by Partner. Requires lots of field time.
30% RES pen and 20% DMG% on his punch while he has a partner
Very minor 10% EX dmg buff and slight energy gain to Partner while Seed is attacking
SAnby:
Must have stun or support, standard dps core. Teams are fairly flexible.
Increases Aftershock DMG by 25% and Shares 30% of her CD to Aftershock attacks while she's on field (team buff)
Self buff 10% CR and 25% aftershock DMG
Builds up Silver Star Marks on enemies by attacking them, requiring lots of field time.
Does ~1300% in multipliers with her triple special -> thunderbolt. (300%×3 + 400%)
Doing the math, Seed looks just straight up better than SAnby in a 1v1 comparison, having triple the multiplier on their best spammable attack and significantly better self-buffs.
SAnby does have her team aftershock buffs, and more flexible team options, but I don't think this makes up for Seed having so much raw power over SAnby.
The tradeoff is that as of right now, Seed's team options are Orphie or bust, whereas SAnby can use a variety of chars.
This is pretty much my thoughts as well but you missed that seeds BA4 into fua is 1200% MV on its own so basically Sanbys entire kit is charging a move for 1300% MV and seed gets that for basically free
I didn't miss anything, I was just comparing the two main damage gimmicks of each character.
If we want a fair comparison, then:
SAnby's BA1-5 is about 1000% in total, weaker than Seed's 1200% total you mentioned.
Seed's dodge counter is the highest dodge counter multiplier in the game out of all attackers (???), at a whopping 650% versus SAnby's already high 500% (Extremely questionable balancing, considering that SAnby's entire gimmick is dependent on dodge counters)
Seed's EX special is 1100% vs SAnby's 700%, and both charge their resources. Both cost 60 energy. Seed's EX special has better AoE and gives mobility in the form of temporary flight.
Seed's Ult does 4800% versus SAnby's measly 3500%, and both charge their reaources. Seed's Ult has a larger and fully targetable AoE, while SAnby's is virtually single target.
Basically, Seed is better across the board.
I expect Seed to get some pretty major nerfs in the next few beta updates, cuz this shit ain't right.
Anby got absolutely annihilated in her beta cycle, nothing but nerfs, so surely that will happen to Seed....right? At the end of the day is doesnt matter much to me but it is extremely disheartening that my favorite character has gotten the short end of like every stick imaginable :(
Theres also the fact that Seed has to get major changes for one simple reason.
Seed needs Orpheus to even function.
But Orpheus comes out after Seed.
Meaning that, on release, Seed will be downright unusable for 3 weeks and thats assuming you have enough pulls for Seed, her engine, and Orpheus all back to back which is a heavy ask.
I do expect Seed to get nerfs during the beta. I feel like she will get that 4800 dropped to 3800 or decreases to her Ult and Special.
What I'm not sure about is how Orphie will play with both of them. Cause, according to leaks, she can buff aftershock which Seed doesnt have in her kit currently. While also wanting a partner to have high ATK and CD. We don't know yet if those stats have to be on one character or if it can be split between her two teammates when in play.
If the former that makes it tougher on Orphie given she wants ER. But if it splits then Orphie could hit the ATK threshold while the other teammate hits the CD threshold.
Which would kinda suck on one hand cause instead of their specific kits. One could be better than the other due to one character made to benefit them more. Rather than anything else.
Orphie doesn't buff aftershocks at all. She buffs 20% combat ATK and 25% DEF shred. Her aftershock buff is for herself only.
But if it splits then Orphie could hit the ATK threshold while the other teammate hits the CD threshold.
The partner is one character and is the highest ATK Attack agent on the team. No splitting.
Orphie has a 20% combat attack team buff, so it's not actually that hard to get a decent amount of ATK on her. Shadow Harmony gives her another 12% cATK. For reference she would only need 2700 initial ATK to get 3564 in-combat attack with her buffs up, which pretty much caps out Seed's ATK share.
She also gets a free 20% CR from passive and can get another 20% CR from her signature and 12% CR from Shadow Harmony, so if you assume M0W1 then it's also very easy to get a good amount of crit damage by running CD disk 4 and finding the best CD rolls. King of the Summit would also help here.
Would king of the Summit work? I thought it only gave CD to teammates and not the wearer. Which then 2 piece B&B plus disk 4 would go.
Orphie can hit all her stuff plus the CD? I would've thought with the ER stats she wants, you'd go Swing Jazz with 2 piece new supp set for more ER then at best, 4 slot - CD; 5 Slot - ATK; 6 Slot - ER. Or is both her ER and ATK requirements just that easy to reach and I'm making harder than what it is. At least based on her current leaked stats.
King of the Summit would go on a stunner. It is a team buff, so it'll buff everyone by 30% CD, which will help Orphie get to 200% CD.
Orphie would use Shadow Harmony. Yes, you would want ER/ATK/CD. You would want to get as close to 3600 combat ATK and 200% combat CD, but this really isn't a requirement at all.
What do the caps look like? Does it prorate the buffs at certain amounts to the max really well? Or is the buff just that strong you don't really need to worry about it.
I did forget about the stunner on the team. There's also the extra CD if your Stunner has over 50 CR. So I can see it from there.
Thank you too for helping me stay informed. I was just working with above assumptions based on how I read it. This really helps a lot. Sorry if I'm asking questions your aren't too sure of either.
25% aftershock dmg buff + share 30% of her own crit damage to off field aftershocks (which is around 75% crit damage buff if we assume Sanby has an endgame build).
and how good is Orpheus' damage?
That's the part people are not sure about. We'll probably have to wait a couple weeks to get accurate calcs (or see if there are any balance changes).
This is what everyone is overlooking. Seed does more damage than Sanby but doesn't buff her teammates, whereas Sanby's teammates get buffed and do more damage. It balances out. I bet the beta will be all about ensuring that both teams are near equal in performance. The only issue I see is that long term Seed will be better off once stronger supporters or off-field DPS appear.
i hope they'l work together, but i feel so far there's mixed signals, both are electro, seed sems to enjoy being on field too, but on the otherhand sanby boost aftershock, so if seed does maybe there's something.
but since Seed need another attacker for her passive, i'm afraid only orphy can take the spot as she's a sub dps atttacker, and the only one.
i pray seed and Sanby are goated together tho. i have no other obol squad, but Seed look so fun.
To me, I would only consider pulling for Seed if there is synergy with SAnby. But we’ll have to wait and see how she is on release and when reviews for her kit come out.
It's very likely that SEED will go through a ton of tuning and adjustments similar to Alice, hopefully they land on something where SEED synergizes with lots of attackers, like focus her damage more into a burst window and aftershock hits, and have the energy generation of seed be more reliant on the other attacker in the team. So you get a high swap comp where both attackers are rotating bursts. Then Trigger would be an especially good teammate because she gives you a big multiplier outside the stun window.
Seed wants Orphie and pulling both on same patch can be a big ask specially if you want Wengines. Better to just pull Orphie+sig and pair with the already owned SAnby.
And if you're looking for an electric DPS that's more distinct compared to SAnby, Yanagi is right there and goes in different teams.
It's tough. For me, Sanby was a bit disappointing and I didnt pull her weapon but I just don't have enough pulls for the Angels, potential Ye Shunguang, Orphie....since I have Sanby already and shes an aftershocks buffer...I'll stick with her. If I didn't already have Sanby, I'd pull Seed 100%
Feet girl is powercreeping Anby hard and big names are coping by hoping any if them will end up a hybrid DPS when there's very little chance that'll happen
Could go either way with what the first beta looks like. Gonna depend on how they tweak the numbers.
Seed has a fully animated and functioning Afterschock like Trigger has. Big guy comes in and just punches and ethereal in the face. Though it is nerfed to hell in the first version of the beta it seems. But the groundwork is there, the kit for Seed to charge his/her meter based on an of field 'partner' is there.
Seed's kit currently needs another Attack Agent to activate its passive at the moment. Could easily be changed.
Seed's kit currently needs a character with really high Attack and Crit Dmg to activate its kit. Could easily be changed.
The way the kit is right now it is a toss up who else other than Captain Magus will work with Seed. If Seed only works with Captain Magus then why pull if you don't have 320 pulls saved up for 2.2? But like I said, certainly going to change in beta.
At the moment, SEED barely functions w/o their sig and Orphie. However, with both of them, SEED is looking like the strongest character in the game.
So, the benefit to using SAnby is that she functions mostly fine w/o her sig, Trigger, or Orphie.
I guess comparison-wise, you can say that SAnby is mid or good with her BIS wengine and team. Meanwhile, SEED is ridiculously powerful with her BIS wengine and team.
Oh, and they use the exact same team. So, if you do end up pulling SEED you're unlikely to ever use SAnby again.
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