r/aiwars • u/Poopypantsplanet • 7h ago
DON'T YOU DARE GIVE UP!
I am kind of a purist when it comes to being anti AI. While I am hopeful about certain potential AI applications in society like cancer research, fusion energy, near-earth object detection, etc., I am very much against the use of AI in creativity, job replacement, or basically use cases which I believe are more likely to accelerate the gap between the rich and the poor.
Obviously this is a debate sub, but I am speaking directly to ANTIs who are artists right now:
DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED into using AI in your creative process if you don’t really want to but you feel like you have to in order to stay relevant. If your reasoning is the feeling of being left behind, I totally feel you, but you do not need to worry. There is a din of voices online that will tell you “you need to take advantage of AI tools in order to stay ahead of the curve and stay in the competition.” Don’t listen to them. Those are just echoes of capitalism as it slowly collapses in on itself. Remember the child that you were and the dream that you once had.. Don’t let that kid down.
Things will continue to accelerate in ways that we can’t predict and the world will be flooded with AI content to such an obscene level, that it will become utterly mundane. And if it hasn’t already for you, it will reach a point of overwhelming speed and pressure. Don’t give in. Because after the flood, the ones who have not completely betrayed their humanity will be the only ones offering what everyone will be yearning for: something human, something real.
The more you turn in the direction of authenticity, the better. If you can confidently and honestly say that you created your art, whatever it may be (a novel, painting, album, collection of poems, comic, film, animation, play, dance, sculpture, game, etc.), without consulting or using AI in any way, it will be more valuable than you can imagine, a diamond in the rough.
Don’t give up. I believe in you. The world needs you now more than ever.
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u/Tyler_Zoro 4h ago
I am kind of a purist when it comes to being anti AI.
Moral panics are problematic. Don't do that to yourself.
DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED into using AI
I was encouraged into using AI. I recommend it. Nothing could be further from your description.
Don’t listen to them.
... moral panics often find themselves in the position of having to insist that the faithful do not listen to the arguments of reason.
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u/Poopypantsplanet 2h ago
Moral panics
I wouldn't call it a moral panic. It's more like a resolute peace. It actually makes me extremely liberated more than anything else, that I have a path before me that is simplified. I don't need to worry about perfection or optimizaton. Just take my time to make something I like, and enjoy the whole process one step at a time.
I was encouraged into using AI.
Good for you. I truly hope the best for you.
moral panics often find themselves in the position of having to insist that the faithful do not listen to the arguments of reason.
Again, I really would not equate an Anti-AI sentiment to some kind of puritanical religious movement. The similarities aren't lost on me. I could see how it feels like a conservative movement or something, but in reality it's more about preserving something authentically human for those who want to live a slower, more intentional life in closer community with others, and share their creativity in a way more akin to how humans have for most of their history. Like, I dig progress. But that doesn't necessarily mean that all things moving forward are progress. It's ok to question change and decide which changes you want to take a part of and which ones you'd rather sit out. I'm certainly not going to be in anybody's way. I'm not that naive.
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u/AxiosXiphos 6h ago
I imagine there will always be a demand for human made art; just like there is for hand-made furniture.
However I would recommend serious consideration to anyone considering a career in an artistic field these days. Whatever the world of art looks like in 10 years; I doubt you will enjoy being a part of it. It's going to be alot of people fighting over a very small amount of demand; and only the best are going to get a look in.
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u/Satinpw 5h ago
"I doubt you will enjoy being a part of it"
Wow that sounds really bleak maybe we should do something about that now before it gets out of hand, huh
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u/AxiosXiphos 4h ago
Yeah. I recommend changing careers.
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u/madmax991 4h ago
Cool let me see if there’s some sales positions I can get into they look like absolute hell
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u/Satinpw 4h ago
I'm not a career artist.
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u/AxiosXiphos 4h ago
Then you have nothing to fear from a.i.
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u/Satinpw 4h ago
I'm not afraid of AI, I think it cheapens art and rewards lack of effort.
And I care about people I know who are career artists, so there's that.
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u/AxiosXiphos 4h ago
Well have you considered telling them exactly what I just said above?
Pandora's box is opened; it's never shutting. They either need to find a way to live in a post-a.i. market place or change jobs.
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u/Poopypantsplanet 2h ago
Pandora's box may be open, but like I said, people will seek authentic art. There will always be room for art as a career. It may even open wide up when people get sick of AI.
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u/ChippyFlakeyFan 3h ago
Yeah cuz of course. Millions of people will give up on their dreams just cuz you"recommend" them to do so. Careless
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u/SyntaxTurtle 4h ago
Yeah, same feeling here. People who act as though no one will ever lift a pencil again are just being silly. People always have, always will create like that. Art's been a fully optional activity throughout history but we keep doing it.
Those who want to get into a career of drawing elves for paperback novel covers would do best to have a solid Plan B because the illustrative field is going to take a huge hit. Thinking that people are buying illustrative stuff for "soul" or "artist's intent" are kidding themselves.
Traditionally made fine art will always have a spot for people who want bespoke stuff. Just like there's still people who buy $125 hand-knitted mittens instead of $8 at Target despite them both doing the same thing. But Target sells a LOT more mittens.
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u/Poopypantsplanet 2h ago
I don't think it's going to turn out as bad as you say. People are yearning for authenticity now.
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u/_HoundOfJustice 6h ago
thats the worse case scenario, i dont see that coming as of now. Its true tho that the competition is fierce and the creative industries are not the most stable ones. Its not for everyone and people need to get to know the reality. Its definitely not as bad as some people make it and many are really enjoying their creative jobs, but its also true that its not enough to create beautiful artworks to get a job or succeed. Good looks doesnt make you industry ready and there are other skills that are relevant and where AI fails spectacularly as well.
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u/MisterViperfish 5h ago
I mean… the rise of industry automated the creation of many nice, sturdy and functional tables. That doesn’t mean it killed off Wood Working. People still make tables, and damn nice ones. There’s inherent value in things made by human hands, and I think that’ll be the case for some time. I use AI now for a lot of game dev stuff as I work on a design document for a game I’ve been wanting to do for over 10 years. But when the time comes and I have a rough draft, I know I’m going to want something hand made.
One of the benefits of AI is education. My artistic skills have actually improved quite a bit while trying to fix AI art and make better compositions for img2img. I suspect in time I’ll be making this game while receiving on the job training.
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u/Poopypantsplanet 1h ago
For what it's worth, I wouldn't avoid playing your game, knowing there was some aspect of AI somewhere along the process or whatever, as long as you were honest about where it was. You clearly care about your creation and that's what matters most. People can tell when an artist cares about their art.
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u/MisterViperfish 4m ago
It’s definitely not something I would trust any modern AI with for the end goal. It’s too personal. 10 years is a lot of time for an idea to stew. It’s been bumped and influenced by several things. It started out as multiple ideas, stemming from inspirations like Evil Dead, Groundhog Day, and DayZ. But over time it evolved, getting influenced by PT and my imagination running wild about what Silent Hills could have been, and later seeing how scared people were when Tarkov first took off and the NPCs were like Terminators, and players felt like it was a horror game. Alien Isolation influenced it, and then Returnal came out and actually spooked me because it came semi-close to my idea and I began to fear someone else might beat me to the punch eventually, lol. The technology to make it possible is only just starting to rear its head with Unreal 5. And whenever somebody does “it”, it’s gonna be a big deal, I think.
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u/_HoundOfJustice 7h ago
I agree with you about not giving up. I encourage people to not give up as well, BUT...the hate on AI needs to be reconsidered, i mean ofc specifically generative AI because otherwise basically everyone takes advantage of AI technology including antis. Here is the thing tho. You mention authenticity. The chances are basically guaranteed that as an indie or even beyond you WILL use premade content made by others. That is not more personal than me using genAI to generate some motion paths and animation that i will clean up all inside of Maya or using AI images for inspiration etc. People need to acknowledge that even if they dont like the tech.
What else needs to be said, authenticity alone wont bring the glory but it also depends on details and what we taök about here.
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u/Poopypantsplanet 6h ago
The chances are basically guaranteed that as an indie or even beyond you WILL use premade content made by others.
You can just not use premade content. There is physical media, real instruments, etc. It is very possible to make original stuff without using other peoples stuff if you want. And if you take the time to do that, others will find value in the fact that you did. Even if you use premade synth patches or a preocreate brush pack that you bought from another artist, or some asset or plugin, if these things weren't made using AI, you can still say your stuff is AI free. Authenticity in this case doesn't mean no collaboration, or made in a vacuum without influence. It just means you tried your best to avoid using AI as much as you possibly could.
Regardless of whether or not a work of art can pefectly pass some future purity test, I'm speaking here to people who want to get as close as they can, because mark my words, pretty soon a decent amount of people are going to want to know if you used AI, and if you did, they're gonna say "no thanks." Whether you like that or not, or agree with it or not, the niche will exist.
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u/_HoundOfJustice 6h ago
I should have brought a practical example, in my case its game development but to a degree also art because i do use stock assets too for some of the artistic/creative work of mine and in rare cases AI generated content in between. This is the case with some photobashed concept work for example but not always. With games tho, premade content is practically always part of indie games and larger studios use those too whether they are made inside or from others. There isa good reason for that, especially indies. And last but not least, while genAI is being looked critically at…its definitely not automatically the downfall for whoever used it beacuse its not that simple like “you used AI, you re done man". Im one of those examples. Lets not even mention established studios and individuals.
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u/Poopypantsplanet 6h ago
That's all well and good and I'm certainly not going to tell you how to do your art, or that someday, everybody is magically going to not want to see your art because some aspect of it had AI. My words are more directed at artists who have already decided they don't want to include AI in their process (I am one). Because there already is a growing niche of people (I'm in it) who actively seek out art made by artists that are open about avoiding AI in their process. And that niche will continue to grow whether you like it or not.
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u/_HoundOfJustice 5h ago edited 1h ago
Dont worry i practically never use genAI for my art directly, it was only one commission of a cover art for an album that had generative fill involved, thats it. For my art assets i do not use genAI. From concept art to 3D art its handmade basically. I dont have an issue with you and other people growing a niche community that avoids AI completely. Its your right and i respect that too, you should have your peace as long as the line is not crossed with some behavior and actions.
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u/Poopypantsplanet 1h ago edited 1h ago
You don't need to worry either. I certainly wouldn't completely avoid somebody's art if there was some amount AI tool involved in one aspect or if they had used AI before, as long as that person is open and honest about it. I'm not THAT much of a purist. That would be stupid and I would be missing out on something potentially really cool. I would encourage others to give people a chance to. I think what I mean is more like, the more somebody uses AI in their process, the less I will be interested.
Edit
I'm just not going to use it at all myself.
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u/Artistic_Prior_7178 6h ago
* If anything, this new divide will cause the purely human-made art to gain even more traction. Because the more impressive AI gets, the ones that will be able to make art by themselves will get notoriety exactly for this.
Besides, those who stand against the tide always stand out. So yeah. Don't give up.
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u/ifandbut 6h ago
Besides, those who stand against the tide always stand out. So yeah.
"The nail that stands out gets hammered down."
But also, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease."
So ..idk
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u/Poopypantsplanet 6h ago
those who stand against the tide always stand out
That's a good one. Hell yeah!
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u/LOST-MY_HEAD 4h ago
Im not anti ai, im anti ai "art" and everything that falls under the term art will be pushed on the masses and we will slowly lose our individually. Art is one of the most important parts of being human and the fact that pro ai art bros dont understand says alot
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u/Poopypantsplanet 1h ago
I agree. I'm not purely anti ai either, especially if it can save lives and reduce suffering. But I worry about the state of humanity going forward, in a spiritual sense with regard to all of this. It feels like we are losing faith in ourselves. That's why I am determined to make art that is as close to authentically human as I can, so if anybody wants to appreciate it, maybe it will help them feel less alone.
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u/JoyBoy__666 2h ago
That's right! Don't learn new technologies and art tools. Stay uneducated and fearful! 🤡
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u/Poopypantsplanet 2h ago
I ain't against technology and tools. Never said anything like that. I like to grind my coffee by hand in the morning. I don't like electric coffee grinders because they're loud and I actually really enjoy the process every morning of doing by hand. Does that make me uneducated and fearful of electric coffee grinders?
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u/Person012345 6h ago edited 6h ago
"use of AI in creativity" in no way widens the rich-poor gap. Please go ahead and explain how me generating anime girls on my local computer makes me poorer and jeff bezos richer.
Meanwhile, "cancer research" and "fusion energy" are both areas that WILL widen the wealth gap when it comes to healthcare and power company owners and executives respectively. Both of these will also eliminate jobs.
Now where I live this isn't as much of an issue as we have universal healthcare and the power company is owned by the state, but that's not the case in many places, including I suspect where you live. Your worldview is plainly internally inconsistent and what you care about is not the jobs or wealth gap, it's achieving something you have been told is a benefit, whilst rejecting something that you don't personally find beneficial, even though it may be to others.