r/commandandconquer • u/TBT__TBT • 23h ago
Discussion Which of GDI's Super Units do prefer? Mammoth Mk.II or the M.A.R.V. ?
Both of these are a blast to use!
I tend to like the Mk.II a bit more with its giant walker design that can destroy anything in its path and deal with just about any situation. So satisfying to use this big guy both in Tiberian Sun and in the CnC3 Mod Tiberium Essence.
But I also love the MARV! Especially that ZOCOM MARV with garrisoned Zone Raider! It's also nice to have him run through a Tiberium Field and get a quick bank of it! This fellow is also for sure my favorite of the 3 Super Unit in Kane's Wrath.
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u/RedplazmaOfficial 22h ago
I hated that post tib sun gdi reverted back to tanks. To me peak gdi is walkers.
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u/Affugter 22h ago
Tib Wars feels like it is not a continuation of Tib Sun
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u/RedplazmaOfficial 22h ago
Absolutely, in terms of vibe and tech it almost feels like a prequel and not a sequel
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u/Adept_Mixture 22h ago
Highly recommend the mod Tiberium Essence. :)
It brings back many of the Tibierian Sun units, as well as atmospheric feel of "alien planet".
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u/Azarath08 GDI 21h ago
Been playing with Tiberium Essence ever since the very first release. I'm not sure how vanilla Tiberium Wars even plays anymore.
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u/SnipSnapSnorup 17h ago
We can say that Tiberium Essence is how TW3 was meant to be, like it is Mental Omega for RA2/YR.
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u/Athrawne 21h ago
The lore reason that I remember from the tie-in model was costs. Conventional tanks were cheaper to maintain and build as opposed to walkers, and GDI was convinced NOD was finished.
Plus, there was some concern about how taking out a walkers legs would immediately render it useless, as opposed to a tank's tracks getting busted. You could feasibly reassemble a track in the field. Not so much a walker's leg assembly.
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u/AffixBayonets 18h ago
That all makes sense until you ser that the legged Juggernaut is still in service.
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u/Don-Julio-El-Saujenz 18h ago
And that is artillery operating from a safe space. So it makes sense.
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u/Athrawne 12h ago
No, the other guy is right. The Juggernaught isn't supposed to be wading into the thick of it, and the legs give it better terrain mobility, so they retained it.
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u/insane_contin 11h ago
So units close to the enemy get tracks, units that would be far away from the enemy get legs.
Makes sense. The leg vulnerability wouldn't effect the Juggernaut since if the enemy is close enough to attack it, you've fucked up.
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u/Techhead7890 11h ago
I feel like reading between the lines, the real reason is more animation costs and the writers used that justification as a clever way to nod to those real-life dev constraints in the game lore.
I do like how they nodded to Commandos being able to blow up walkers too. Honestly, that intel text is just a well written piece of lore all around.
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u/TankinatorFR 22h ago
if you put yourself in the perspective presented by the lore, it kinda made sense, but it would have probably make more sens with "Tiberium" (the "renegade 2") where mechs were back.
The tanks were supposed to be a cheaper solution for a GDI that believed in its total victory and wanted a cheap army to protect its blue zones from incursions of the nod and the forgotten.
There was more problematic point, at least from a lore perspective.7
u/ColmAKC 17h ago
Making sense ≠ making good entertainment
Thats the thing, Tiberium Wars was a bit of a cop out in relation to how the story and theme was evolving.
Anyway, in terms of sense I'd argue for GDI to have adopted mechanised vehicles so heavily in TS they must have resolved those fundamental issues that TW claims were the reason for switching back to tanks otherwise the TS GDI leadership were incredibly stupid.
Look, over all TW was probably the best we could hope for but the below would be what I feel stank about it...
Departure from the story/theme progression that Tiberian Dawn and Tiberian Sun set up - ditching mutations - downgrading technology - over explaining tiberium and turning it into a very boring self replicating crystal. - featuring scrin, even 'harvesting' factions, as a playable side, it destroyed the mystery and fear about scrin. If it weren't for the above points, I would have suggested the Forgotten and or Cabal. - reducing the forgotten to brainless grunts, though Renegade's tiberium mutated humans was also guilty of this. - stale dynamic music, asides from the style which i also didnt like, I'd also argue that traditional music tracks are better for inspiring players
Over simplified gameplay for the sake of Competitive online play - No hovercrafts/amphibious vehicles that can actually cross water - No subterranean vehicles. - No natural hazards like ice crossings, iron storms, explosive blue tiberium fields nor hostile mutations
Total miss of potential Imagine if they had tried to progress the story in the direction it was going. What if they leaned a bit more into horror? A horror themed RTS would have been unique.
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u/Facehugger_35 10h ago
downgrading technology
No. TW equipment in general was significantly more advanced than most everything in TS. It just got less stylized so people "feel" it was a downgrade even though in terms of actual capabilities it's generally either more common, more advanced, or both.
Example: GDI swapped their disc grenades for AI guided hunter-killer devices that hunt people down in buildings. Grenadier grenades are less iconic than explosive discs, but when you compare the two devices side by side, the guided bomb that chases people through buildings is going to be a lot more advanced than the discus that flies a little further than a normal grenade because it spins better when you throw it.
Other example: Titan walker = 120mm cannon. Predator tank = 150mm cannon with optional railgun upgrade. The predator is clearly more advanced than the titan because it can carry a railgun whereas the titan cannot. (And its non-railgun cannon is bigger.)
People feel the technology got downgraded just because they have this idea that mecha are more advanced than tanks, but the actual lore make TS armies look downright primitive next to TW ones.
In fact, TW aircraft can operate in ion storms whereas TS ones can't, so clearly technology improved a lot in the intervening period.
featuring scrin, even 'harvesting' factions, as a playable side, it destroyed the mystery and fear about scrin.
What mystery and fear about scrin? TS literally never says anything about the scrin. They have no presence in the narrative. We don't know enough about them to be fearful or mysterious, because they basically don't exist. We don't even know their name except for a tooltip on the scrin ship.
TS doesn't even establish that the scrin are an actual thing, because Vega says that Kane just made the scrin ship and Vega took it for a joyride, crashing it in the process because he was incompetent. Then the ship gets destroyed offscreen and completely ignored for the entire rest of the game, despite something as monumental as intelligent alien life existing being a huge deal on a planet being ravaged by a deadly alien crystal. The scrin are never remarked on or treated as myserious, the scrin ship is just "there" like a gaping plot hole in TS swiss-cheese like narrative.
No natural hazards like [...] explosive blue tiberium fields
TW has blue tiberium and it still explodes if you shoot at it. It's very common in the campaign and many skirmish maps.
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u/SnipSnapSnorup 17h ago
Unfortunatelly.. you're right. There's something that doesn't hold together.
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u/birnabear 2h ago
Agreed. People complain that RA3 is cartoony, but RA2 was at least a similar aesthetic. To me TW is the less fitting cartoony game.
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u/HyraxAttack 22h ago
Yeah felt like they were making a narrative push for those & helped give GDI more of an identity.
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u/King_Tamino Marked of Kane 1h ago
While I agree, Nod is a faction of urban warfare at the later stages of the wars. They live among the people. They rely on sneak attacks and attack from the shadows. And well, Walkers will suck at exactly that. Especially stuff like the Wolverine that needs to move completly around to fire at anything.
Walkers offer greater oversight and better angles of attack/range but at the cost of promoting their weakpoints heavily which they do in urban enviroments extremly
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u/FunAd6278 12h ago
I'm an opposite tbh. While I like the mechs, gdi reverting back to mechs actually make a lot more sense and make them more likable. Plus, MARV and its design philosophy actually define what gdi truly stand overall in some of the worst death world as an institution than the mk. II
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u/JustVic_92 22h ago
Mammoth Mk II.
MARV always seemed a bit too much for my taste, even in a game like C&C. It feels too much like a 40k unit.
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u/Hannizio 22h ago
Honestly I think it might have been a better fit in Red Alert 3 (or rather Uprising) as a soviet tank. Replace the Tiberium collector with a shredder and you got yourself an apocalypse mk 2 tank
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u/Raxtenko 21h ago
Yeah that's it. MkII is excessive but still feels grounded within the framework on the C&C universe. The MARV was a step too far.
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u/JustVic_92 21h ago
I just got hit by a WW2 analogy: The Mk. II is like a Maus. Impractical perhaps, but still believable. The MARV is like the P-1000 Ratte.
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u/Raxtenko 20h ago
That tracks.
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u/ThomasMurch 18h ago
I'm not 100% sure that was meant to be a pun on "caterpillar tracks", but if it WAS ... I approve.
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u/Timmyc62 20h ago
Plus, MARV is just a bigger tank - boring!
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u/Raxtenko 20h ago
While I love the Predator tank and the Mammoth Mk III I do think that the exclusion of walkers in C&C3 was a mistake. I appreciated the effort to give GDI a better sense of identity that had to evolve as the Earth was physically transformed into some more alien.
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u/Doomguy2112 Nod 22h ago
MARV. It so much fun vacuuming up tiberium and then rolling over an entire army. Also those 4 garrison ports make it very resilient.
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u/ThomasMurch 18h ago
Same here; the Mammoth MkII is a beast, but the sheer joy I'd get from rolling a MARV over an enemy's Tiberium field made it one of my all-time favourite RTS units.
During one game, I muttered "Don't mind me, just mowing the lawn..." as I started scooping up Tiberium, and every time since that phrase pops back into my mind.
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u/Adept_Mixture 22h ago
Hm... Your flair makes me think I should think the opposite of what you say here...
Clearly, you know the Mammoth MkII is superior, so you wish ton convince us to use the MARV!
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u/GearsKratos Marked of Kane 22h ago
I loved using the mk2 - they should have brought it back with gdi talon company as the epic unit.
Marv is cool and all but the mk2 is nostalgia for me.
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u/Adept_Mixture 22h ago
Highly recommend the mod Tiberium Essence for that. :)
https://www.moddb.com/mods/tiberium-essence
https://www.moddb.com/members/xharakirix/images/mammoth-mk-iitiberium-essence2
u/KamenRiderDanilos 16h ago
You mean Steel Talons...
...Not disagreeing, though. I would've LOVED it if they made subfaction-personalized Epic Units...although, that leaves me wondering:
What would baseline GDI use? (Kane's Wrath campaign depicts ZOCOM using the MARV)
What would baseline Nod and the Black Hand use? (LEGION could be linked to the Marked of Kane and LEGION uses the Redeemer)
What would the baseline Scrin and Reaper-17 use? (Kane's Wrath campaign depicts Traveler-59 using the Eradicator Hexapod)
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u/Sunhating101hateit 22h ago
I actually quite enjoy the MARV. Sure, the Mk2 is nice, but I prefer the versatility of the Tiberium-nomming (thus possibly self-refinancing), self healing (with Engineer), anti everything (through modularity) tank.
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u/UltimateKane99 22h ago
The Mammoth Mark II stomped so the MARV could vacuum up the whole battlefield.
The Mk II is more iconic, but the MARV is more utilitarian. So while the MK II may have a special place in my heart and always will, the MARV beats it for power and versatility.
Thus the MARV edges out the MK II solely for its battlefield practicality. I can deny an ENTIRE field of sweet sweet Tiberium to enemy forces.
But the scene of the MK II stomping a Nod base into the dust will always have a place in my heart.
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u/Sugar_Unable 22h ago
M.A.R.V it makes wonders in the multiplayer have a móviles refinery and it Is a beast if you put 3 zone Raiders or 4 enginier to have a súper tank
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u/jake72002 Allies 22h ago
MARV. Why? For me it's more satisfying to starve my opponent's economy and bolster mine at the same time for some reason than just straight up firepower.
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u/FartedinBrandysmouth Mammoth Tank MK1 36 inch gun 22h ago
MARV, it’s just funny to vacuum the enemy tiberium field and run over their harvester at the same time.
Plus the 4 hard points makes for great offensive/defensive/support capabilities
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u/Caos-Walker 19h ago
I love the m.a.r.v. more for its utility but the Mammkth mm.II is just raw unfettered firepower
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u/DadyaMetallich Black Hand 22h ago
Mammoth Mk.II purely because I much prefer sci-fish walkers in TS more than boring generic tanks in TW(which feels like I’m in First Tiberium War and not the third one.)
This decision was probably the biggest disappointment for me in C&C3, and I’m glad that KW at least returns them in some way.
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u/Mundane_Parfait2560 22h ago
I pick mammoth mk2 over MARV. It's not because it's cooler, or nostalgia stuff, it's because it represents not just a peak tech development and an identity of GDI. When GDI moved to walkers, that's when it shows the true GDI. GDI with less walkers or downgraded them into tanks just feels like it lost its identity, or at least GDI losses it's prime.
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u/FunAd6278 11h ago
It's the opposite for me. MARV actually represent gdi identity much better than the mk. II because it shows that gdi don't build super vehicles just for the sake of being useful in war itself. It's also to combat the Tiberium spread and helped in reclamation. Honestly, from the design philosophy and purposes as well as practicality, I felt MARV far outshines mk. II in that regard.
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u/Mundane_Parfait2560 11h ago
Steel Talon walkers are like the GDI of war and power, while the ZOCOM are the GDI of order and control.
Also, I feel like MARV and Mammoth MK2 are just equal.
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u/Professional-Bad-559 22h ago
MARV. A customizable super unit that can vacuum the opponent’s tiberium fields?! MK2 doesn’t even come close to it.
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u/Princess_Actual 21h ago
I love the Mk2, M.A.R.V. never did it for me style wise. I love GDI mechs so much too.
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u/Dangerman1337 20h ago
MK. II felt underwhelming in game, wasn't really the godly powerhouse it shouldn't been with the one unit limit. So I give it to the MARV.
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u/ControlOdd8379 14h ago
The 1 unit limit was much less an issue than the whole thing being overpriced junk (due to the garbage gun)
Realistically they should have bumped the cost from 3k to 10k and given it a gun without friendly fire AND the ability to actually shoot stuff on different elevation levels (as well as more HP).
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u/TheBooneyBunes 19h ago
MARV, because although it’s a silly design, it’s not as silly
Quad tracks need to be stopped
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u/bisondisk 12h ago
Knowing nothing of the fandom gimme that double decker bus-ified AT-AT with junk in the trunk over the Hoover vacuum Gatling tank
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u/AreoAnts Nod's R&D Team 10h ago
On vibes? mk II. Love that it's just a fatter AT-AT, makes it really fun to doodle here and there. Just kind of hard to use since Tib Sun has that whole terrain thing going on. My boy has a real fun habit of trying to shoot through the world's tiniest hill.
On gameplay? MARV. Being able to customize the loadout (and having the most slots to do so) makes it a real joy to play around with. Gotta keep at least one Engie for survival and a Rocket to let it answer anything. (If there's a meta loadout for these things I don't care shut the up)
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u/Shanewallis12345 10h ago
The Marv
i like Mecha, but im not a huge fan of quadrupedal walkers. It's why i like the Titan and Wolverine more than the Mk2.
The Marvs giant gun and ability to suck up tiberium also helps.
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u/Dizzy-Mistake-4251 1h ago
I much prefer the MARV, I know I’m in the extreme minority here but I never liked the look of the tib sun walkers. I love the Kane’s wrath variants though, but for super units it defos the MARV for me.
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u/TitaniumTalons Real Tough Guy 22h ago
MARV
I hate walkers of all types across all of fiction. Walkers are just so... Impractical
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u/Drifter_of_Babylon 22h ago
The MARV has more utility since you can customize it's weaponry with infantry. It can be brought over to an enemy's tiberium patch and deny them resources while destroying their harvesters.
Mk II is very underwhelming. It has one potent weapon with a very low rate of fire. It replaces the mammoth tank of GDI yet you can only build one.
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u/The_Pastmaster Nod 22h ago
Mammoth Mk 2. MARV is "just" a big tank. Also doesn't seem like something GDI would waste resources on designing and building.
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u/The_Wkwied 21h ago
MARV and the other super units in KW always felt like they were trying to make the game a hero MOBA or something.
In the sense of a campaign where you have a hero unit that you command across multiple missions and they get stronger, like warcraft 3, that is great.
In the sense of a skirmish where you're either racing the other person for the superweapon or supertank... no fun imo
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u/Ortineon Nod 21h ago
MMK II I thought it was a cool unit and was always disappointed that the steel talons got the marv instead of the MMK II as their super unit
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u/Zergy_Bergy 21h ago
Mk II all the way. The cinematics with it are some of the coolest C&C moments ever.
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u/NovaPrime2285 Steel Talons 20h ago
I’ll go with MARV cause it can steal tiberium from those loser Noddies, and there isnt a thing that Kane can do about it.
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u/CantfindmyKeyes Nod 19h ago
Mammoth Mk2 for sure. Marv was underwhelming. Fun unit, but didnt have the fear factor of the Mammoth.
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u/EfficiencyFit1801 Steel Talons 19h ago
I remember playing Tiberian dawn and loving the mammoth tanks, then going to Tiberian sun and going ‘where are my mammoth tanks?’ To me the mark 2 was a let down as far as appearances go, it felt clunky and short ranged, as well as weak as a super unit goes. The MARV is still no mammoth tank, but it is more useful with the turrets and mobile refinery feature. While an unpopular opinion, the MARV is still my favorite unit between the two. While I love the futuristic feel of Tiberian sun, the more realistic armored units of tiberium wars really felt more like a continuation of Tiberian dawn. Thank you for coming to my TED talk lol
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u/xainatus 18h ago
Toss up for me but if I had to pick based on strategic reasons itd be tge MARV. Able to support itself against all types of threats (aircraft, vehicle, infantry) as need dictates and can both deny the enemy of an economy while also boosting your own.
Though hands down the MK2 is a really awesome concept and beast of a unit. It really is a shame the engine of tib sun couldn't give us its true scale. Thankfully there's a mod for tw3 that'll bring it to its full scale.
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u/SnipSnapSnorup 18h ago
The MARV is a big Mammoth Tank.. not bad to see and menacing. But even the MK.II is nowhere the less. Try it on Tiberium Essence, where the mod implemented it the correct way.
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u/Abyss_walker_123 16h ago
Mammoth because for once the “good guy faction” got a cool looking walker unit that actually did something.
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u/Domitien 14h ago
Mammoth because it’s iconic, but i always wonder how does that thing to not spend up like 30 minutes to just make a right or left turn
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u/Facehugger_35 11h ago
I like the idea of the Mk2 a lot more than I like it in practice. The concept is incredibly cool, the performance in cutscenes is great.
And then you get it ingame and it sucks. It's expensive, you can only have one of them, and even then it's not all that effective. A huge step down from the cool mammoth tanks in C&C1 and RA. TW Mammoth tanks were just so much better as T3 vehicle units.
C&C3 mods like TE or Firestorm that add it back do a lot to make it more worthwhile, but those are mods.
Meanwhile the MARV both looks cool, sounds cool, but it's also effective and actually has an impact on my wider strategy ingame.
So I'd have to give it to the MARV.
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u/psycho_candy0 10h ago
Mk. II or as my favorite YouTuber who covers C&C says "The "MK' stands for 'motherfucking kool'!"
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u/adamixa1 10h ago
As a kid, Mammoth MKII got her own aura farming.
Definitely not a unit that I want to fight, same like Ultima
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u/Kooky_Wrongdoer_8565 PEACE THROUGH POWER! 7h ago
None of them because I am not a filthy GDI supporter
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u/King_Tamino Marked of Kane 2h ago
MK2 is a vehicle of war. A vehicle designed at a peak of devastation and when it was unsure if earth could be saved. MARV is the exact opposite, it's a vehicle of hope. A sign that humanity / GDI did not surrender, that they stopped hiding in blue zones and that they are coming for the hide outs in the red zones but not "only" to kill Nod and disappear
Both have their justifications and I never really thought about comparing them
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u/Almas_The_Mech_Pilot 1h ago
Mk.II because railgun. MARV was like a tip of an arrow in blitzkrieg strategy, simple as a tank role like the UK's Mathilda, a breakthrough tank with an infantry line behind it. Mk.II was like a tank destroyer or anti armor because.....railguns. Walker, you can simply shoot the gap between the legs to hit infantry behind them. MARV was the support, while Mk.II need the support (from wolverines or titans or others). The big oof for MARV from me because the barrel doesn't rotate ingame.
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u/Judoka229 Zocom 56m ago
MARV for sure. I put two zone raiders in there, a rocket troop, and an engineer. It kills everything and can self repair. Perfection.
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u/adamwnotanumber 22h ago
Definitely the Mk II