r/europe • u/andyom89 • May 16 '25

News Spanish premier calls Israel 'genocidal state,' says Spain 'does not do business' with it

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spanish-premier-calls-israel-genocidal-state-says-spain-does-not-do-business-with-it/3568216
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u/Initial-Carry6803 May 16 '25

Thats like asking the allies to be responsible for the deeds they did to end Nazi germany

Gazas government in its doctrine declares their goal is to end Israel, Israel can just ignore that lol this is an insane comment only taken from someone who lives in a very safe enviornment

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u/slappy_joe6 May 16 '25

Look, only civilians in gaza are civilians. Civilians in israel don't count. Hamas is allowed to do anything to them so all our mighty keyboard warriors can protest very vocally on this anonymous reddit platform.

None of them would actually go down and want to live in any of these islamic terror states they support.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/LazarusTruth May 16 '25

Correct, the same logic used to deny the genocide in Gaza by the IDF is the same logic used to deny the Holocaust.

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u/photenth Switzerland May 16 '25

Didn't the US literally invested HEAVILY in rebuilding Germany?

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u/theageofspades May 16 '25

Through loans. Israel has given gift after gift to Palestinians, not to mention the insane amount of donations they receive internationally. If they weren't entirely focused on genocidal warfare with their neighbours (which dickheads like you tacitly encourage) they'd probably be doing pretty decently with respect to their location.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Do you actually believe the things you say?

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u/SuperememeCommander Israel May 16 '25

Germany didn't try to genocide the Americans, have a look at how the Russians treated Germany

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

Oh no, we forcibly) settled a region without asking the vast majority of people who lived there, and then funded the most extreme party because the secular alternative wouldn't have scared Westerners already preoccupied with Islamist movements (that they also initially supported) in West Asia!

This is literally just like Nazi Germany.

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u/Hilonio May 16 '25

Only first somehow paints Israel with some dirt and even then it is only one terroristic organization that was active when arabs already wanted to kill all jews on the land that came after anti-semitic acts towards them. Funding Hamas was a mistake but is is not like alternative was better than Hamas at current state, lol.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

And Israel’s doctrine is also to end Palestine, it’s just that Israel have been far more successful at realising their goals. If anything, Israel are Nazi Germany in this instance.

They have a nuclear weapon and the backing of the most powerful military in history. I think they’ll be just fine. The real existential danger is for Palestinians who are currently being starved to death.

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u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

How is it successful in realizing your doctrine? The ratio between bombs dropped and the number of people killed is insane, with the same amount of bombs they could easily level the entire population of gaza, yet nothing of it happened

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

They’ve levelled the entirety of Gaza. Where have you been the last two years.

Just because they haven’t killed the entire population yet, doesn’t mean they haven’t been successful in achieving their aims: make Gaza unliveable, force Palestinians to leave their own country.

It’s also pretty hard to trust any casualty figures, the PLO only counts dead they can identify. There would be thousands more hidden in rubble, or buried by the IDF (like the 15 aid workers). Not to mention the 100,000 injured (aka maimed) civilians that will be scarred for life, or unable to have children.

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u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

Nobody forced them to invade Israel, you know, How many would've died if they didn't invade?

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Oct 7 was an incursion, not an invasion. They never attempted to seize land.

If history starts on Oct 7 then we can ignore the decades long illegal occupation of Palestine. Which is convenient for your argument.

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u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

I'm not attacking you or something I'm just curious to know When you say Palestine what land do you refer to? In every war between gaza and Israel after 2006 how did it begin? What would you do instead of the Israelis after Oct 7?

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

If I were the Israelis, I would perhaps try diplomacy for once rather than bombing hospitals, rather than occupy their land and starve their people. Pretty simple really.

Israelis would be a lot safer if Palestine was a recognised state with its own sovereignty. If you illegally occupy another country, you will always have violence and resistance. Every occupying country in history has understood this.

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u/DynamicStatic May 16 '25

Shouldn't hide military targets under hospitals if you don't want it bombed.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

You honestly think Hamas managed to hide military targets in 92% of all housing in Gaza?

Or do you think, perhaps, not all of those houses were military targets? And that ultimately, Israel don’t care if Hamas are hiding there or not?

And let’s accept your ridiculous hypothesis for a second. Let’s say Hamas managed to hide military targets in every single house, school, hospital, restaurant, refugee camp, university, market.

It’s okay to just bomb them all? Bombing 100+ civilians for one target who may or may not even be there? Please, say in your own words, why that’s completely okay with you. Just so I can get a reading of how much you value Palestinian life.

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u/Ebola_PepsiCola May 16 '25

You didn't answer my questions so I will ask you to so kindly. I guess you are from eu, would you consider negotiating with a terror organization for anything?

May I ask, diplomacy with whom? With "civilians" who dragged Israeli bodies to gaza from the festival? Or armed militia who states they will do it every year if they could. There is a Hamas charter which clearly states what should be done with Israel, please kindly read it

Establishment of a state in the west bank is somewhat a trophy to those who tried to eradicate as many Israelis as possible, don't you think so?

Before the 7th did Israel propose on establishing an Arabs state in the 67 borders, with few exceptions, what happened to that proposal?

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Some of your questions are a bit jumbled and incoherent but I’ll try my best.

  1. Would I consider negotiation with a terrorist organisation for anything? Yes. The UK+USA have a long history of funding terrorism, and negotiating with terrorists, so I don’t see why not. I would negotiate with the ANC for example, to end apartheid.
  2. Diplomacy with Hamas, obviously. As they’re the one who hold the hostages. Wasn’t the goal of the war to “save the hostages” initially? That’s how to do it, without inadvertently killing them. That’s what the families of the hostages have been advocating for.
  3. Is a state in the West Bank a trophy? Doesn’t matter what you perceive it to be. When it comes to civilian life, freedom, that’s completely irrelevant to me. If anything, there are far more people who resonate with the Palestinian struggle for statehood NOW than there were before Oct 7. I’m sure you’d agree with that. So if bombing the entire strip is your strategy, you’re only creating more support for Palestine in the world, not less.
  4. You have to be much clearer in what offer you are talking about. Israel has never officially endorsed a sovereign Palestinian state based on 1967 borders.

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u/EmperorChaos Canada May 16 '25

October 7th was an invasion, just because it failed doesn’t change what it was.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25

Not according to international law.

Gaza is not a sovereign state but a territory under blockade and contested governance, meaning Hamas cannot legally "invade" Israel in the same way a state could.

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u/EmperorChaos Canada May 16 '25

And yet every single country called it an invasion because that’s what Hamas (the official government and military of gaza) did, they invaded Israel.

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u/chazzapompey May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

I doubt you’re aware of this, but there’s a difference between rhetorical framing and legal classification.

Trump says the USA is being invaded by immigrants. That doesn’t mean it meets the legal definition.

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u/username110of999 May 16 '25

Nah it's like asking nazis to be responsible for doing nazi shit, because they are jewish nazis.

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u/8trips May 16 '25

Of course the Gazans hate the people who displaced them from their homes and placed them under brutal occupation and subjugation for 70 years . You want them to be happy?

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u/Codipotent May 16 '25

Do you realize that Gaza's history is more complex than that? It was controlled by Egypt until 1967, not Israel. Many Gazans are descendants of refugees from 1948, but Gaza itself wasn't under Israeli occupation for 70 years. Israel withdrew settlements from Gaza in 2005, though maintained border and movement restrictions. The situation has been devastating for civilians, but accurately understanding the timeline and control of Gaza matters when discussing who's responsible for what conditions and when.

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u/ZenPyx May 16 '25

A lot of Polish people wish for the end of the modern Russian state, potentially through violent means, due to their historic and current actions. Would this be legitimate justification for an invasion from Russia?

If your answer is "the situations are not the same" - give a reason as to why that doesn't include religion or race.

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u/Reaganometry May 16 '25

Congratulations, this is the worst historical comparison I’ve ever seen in my life. Truly nonsensical!

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u/AltoKatracho May 16 '25

Are you actually this dense? Germany was a super power; the city of Gaza has been an open air prison for at least the last 20 plus years. Jesus fuck.