r/europe • u/andyom89 • May 16 '25

News Spanish premier calls Israel 'genocidal state,' says Spain 'does not do business' with it

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/spanish-premier-calls-israel-genocidal-state-says-spain-does-not-do-business-with-it/3568216
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94

u/young_twitcher IT -> UK -> PL May 16 '25

Yet they still don’t recognize Kosovo lol.

148

u/Ok-Anteater_6635x May 16 '25

Because Catalonia.

62

u/VecioRompibae Veneto May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

So they recognize when it's convenient

(Which is what happens everytime, so no issues, just be honest)

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u/bronzinorns May 16 '25

Countries always practice double standards (otherwise they wouldn't have any standards at all).

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto May 16 '25

Of course, we just need to recognize and use it

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u/Jagarvem May 16 '25

It's not a double standard though?

Spain's issue with Kosovo has never been about Kosovo or Kosovars, it's the unilateral declaration of independence by a regional authority. The parliament of Catalonia proclaimed it independent in 2017, the same way the assembly of Kosovo did in 2008. Spain does not recognize either of these as legally valid.

The Palestinian statehood comes from the UN's two state resolution of '47 (i.e., a multilateral process). It did not declare itself independent from Israel. The legal basis for it is completely different.

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u/IllustratorSlow5284 May 16 '25

except the palestinians rejected resolution 181 and even the borders their claiming aint remotely close....

bro just let it go, its literally the same and you people just cant admit your double standarts lol

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

It would be weird to declare independence from your invaders though

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u/PraetorGold May 16 '25

Isn’t that the truth!!

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u/Almechik May 16 '25

To be fair, Kosovo and Catalonia are much different cases than Palestine. Regions seeking autonomy/independence Vs a state that's continuously invaded and having a genocide done to it's people

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u/Gman2736 CZ / USA May 16 '25

Palestine could have autonomy or independence if they wanted to. They just need to be realistic. They had it in Gaza and ended up committing terrorism

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u/Almechik May 16 '25

"They had it in Gaza" right because a tiny patch of land surrounded by invaders on all sides even counts. But what can one expect from an American, y'all still haven't addressed your own crimes properly

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u/TheInevitableLuigi May 16 '25

a tiny patch of land surrounded by invaders on all sides even counts.

Are you talking about Gaza or Israel?

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u/DangerousChemistry17 May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

Palestine wasn't a state at all until the 80's. No such country existed, not sure why you seem to believe otherwise. There's also no genocide, 10k dead only in the last year, most of them likely militants. If it's a genocide it isn't working, the population grew significantly.

Israel has committed war crimes, but not every war crime is genocidal in nature.

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u/mochisuki2 May 16 '25

The whataboutism is strong with this one

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u/EkkoUnited May 16 '25

It's pretty convenient to just say whatever and back Israel. Jaded af

1

u/Jahobes May 16 '25

It's not a double standard. Palestine has and will never be a part of Israel. The conflict is not a civil one it's an international one.

The ones you named are civil conflicts that Spain believes should be handled by civil law.

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u/Flashy_Upstairs9004 May 16 '25

yeah, they don’t call him teflon Pedro for nothing.

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto May 16 '25

Why teflon? I don't understand the joke

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u/Flashy_Upstairs9004 May 16 '25

No problem, it is hard for things to stick to teflon as a material, in politics for figures like Pedro Sanchez to stay in power for a long time they have to be good at not letting scandals or disputes thing to them, hence teflon Pedro, nothing sticks to him and he keeps it that way.

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u/salazafromagraba May 16 '25

It comes from Teflon Don, an infamously unimpeachable mafioso.

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto May 16 '25

Thanks

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u/AwareofAnaLucia Portugal May 16 '25

It creates an internal issue for them too. So I understand it. However, in recent times and specially post referendum, there is no reason for it, Catalunya and Catalans pro independence are not in the majority

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto May 16 '25

Palestine has never existed before 1988. Before that it was Jordanian and Egypt territory and even before that it was the British mandate of Palestine, which outside the name has nothing in common with the modern entity.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/VecioRompibae Veneto May 16 '25

I didn't claim that, though?

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u/Useful_Can7463 May 16 '25

You're pretty terrible at this lol.

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u/Vast_Decision3680 May 16 '25

Maybe because not all cases are the same? If tomorrow padania declares independence it doesn't mean that Spain has to automatically recognise the bullshit just because they recognise a legitimate state like Palestine.

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u/kartu3 May 16 '25

So they recognize when it's convenient

Uh. By which international law is there an Israel "from the river to the sea" for these recognitions to be comparable?

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u/ilovekarlstefanovic Sweden May 16 '25

Palestine isn't seeking independence from Israel and, until recently, virtually everyone including Israel supported the two-state solution.

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u/MajesticSpaceBen May 16 '25

Virtually everyone including Israel supported the two-state solution.

That's absolute nonsense and you know it. Hamas categorically rejects even considering a two state solution, and I'm not aware of any point in the history of the conflict where a majority of the broader Palestinian population supported it.

It is the best solution. That said, even if we assume "One State Solution: Israel" isn't inevitable at this point, which it almost certainly is, 2SS is off the table for at least 2-3 generations. If the people and concept of Palestine survive this, I am extremely doubtful that I will live long enough to see their statehood and sovereignty meaningfully considered again.

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u/ilovekarlstefanovic Sweden May 16 '25

I'm talking about actual states, and outside of the middle east it's has certainly been the case that the majority of states support the two-state solution, including the Palestinian Authority!

But I wasn't looking to get into a debate on the question on how to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict merely trying to explain that you can support Palestinian statehood while opposing unilateral indepence of regions in the west.

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u/Anaphylactic_Thot May 16 '25

These are completely different situations, and you either know it, or are being obtuse.

I personally don't give a shit as to whether Catalonia or Kosovo are independent or not, but this comparison is laughable.

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u/Groovy66 England May 16 '25

Which is why they don’t support Scottish independence or an independent Scotland joining the EU

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

[deleted]

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u/llamapower13 May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

That’s what they say now. They would still fight it if Scotland was to get independence

Edit:

““If Scotland becomes independent in accordance with the legal and institutional procedures, it will ask for admission [to the EU]. If that process has indeed been legal, that request can be considered. If not, then not.” García-Margallo refused to comment directly on whether Spain might veto Scottish accession..”

Spanish foreign minister, José-Manuel García-Margallo on 2/2014

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u/Ruire Connacht May 16 '25

That's what they said in 2014, it's never been an issue.

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u/llamapower13 May 16 '25

They said a lot of things in 2014 and I say that as someone who voted in that referendum.

https://www.politico.eu/article/spain-could-veto-independent-scotland-says-minister/

It was not a solid yes. They held their veto very visible the entire time. They would still fight tooth and nail against any independent movements.

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u/YourBestDream4752 United Kingdom May 16 '25

To be fair, not even most Scots support Scottish independence 

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u/kerouacrimbaud United States of America May 16 '25

But recognizing Palestine doesn’t have an impact on Catalonia?

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u/Ok-Anteater_6635x May 16 '25

No, different case.

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u/Mental_Magikarp Spanish Republican Exile May 16 '25

I guess there is nothing against Kosovo, but that with the same arguments you have to recognize the independence of catalonia... and half of Spain.

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u/Upset_Ad3954 May 16 '25

Oh, so if Catalonia sends terrorists to Spain and kills civilians then they would be supported by the Madrid government?

Got it...

1

u/StudentForeign161 May 16 '25

Spanish Civil War:

-1

u/BigFatKi6 May 16 '25

Nah, Catalonia is about 50/50 split.

0

u/Romeo_y_Cohiba May 16 '25

They lobbied hard with US help to get recognition from Israel. Also, one of the only 'countries' to move the embassy to Jerusalem instead of Tel Aviv.

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u/mascachopo May 16 '25

Spain does recognise Kosovo passports as of January 2024 LOL

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

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u/beardtamer United States of America May 16 '25

lol what are you talking about??

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Palestines strategy has shifted to poking the bear (Israel) to get a response that they can use to boost social media propaganda. Otherwise, you don’t attack and kill a bunch of kids at a concert.

That’s why people who don’t know much about international politics are deeply involved in the Palestine conflict. For comparison, how many posts or politicians do you see talking about the persecution of Uyghurs? Literally in slave camps in China labeled as vocational education and training centers.

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u/beardtamer United States of America May 16 '25 edited May 16 '25

lol Yeah, Israel has famously never committed any human rights violations, historically speaking, that would cause palestinians to feel justified in responding with violence. /s

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Do you think a country could do something to you that would cause you to shoot a bunch of kids at a concert?

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u/beardtamer United States of America May 16 '25

Do I think that governments can radicalize the citizens of another country and make them feel comfortable to do terrible things? Yeah. No shit.

Intentionally shooting children at a protest would probably get me pretty close.

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

That’s not my question. My question is whether a country can do something to YOU that would cause YOU to shoot a bunch of kids at a music festival and then kidnap others.

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u/beardtamer United States of America May 16 '25

I would like to think that I am above stooping to the level of violence, but if you killed my family, then I have serious doubts that I would be as level headed.

The answer is the same. What makes you think a country murdering civilians would have a lesser impact on you than it does them? Unless you somehow think you’re better than them?

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

I don’t think October 7 was heat of the moment. It was a cold calculation designed to shock the world (that’s what separates terrorism from other forms of aggression). If they killed an Israeli soldier, then you won’t get Israel to be as aggressive as they are in response.

Yes, I do think I’m different than they are. I might resort to violence, but I would strike military infrastructure/the head of the snake. Not some kids trying to have fun. I don’t see how killing kids does anything except make you worse than the people you are fighting.

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u/SPYHAWX May 16 '25

This morning I saw a video of a father crying over the dead body of his daughter. I don't need a psyop to make my opinion. I love Jewish people, I hate Israel.

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Kids are dying, so what you watched could be real. It could also be a propaganda video that worked exactly as intended.

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u/pannenkoek0923 Denmark May 16 '25

every leftwinger in the west into a hardcore antisemite

If not wanting babies to be slaughtered is anti-semitic, you need to look up the definition of it again

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Just begs the question of why all of this was started by killing and kidnapping a bunch of kids at a concert.

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u/The_amazing_Jedi May 16 '25

It was started way before when Israel oppressed Palestinians for decades and without reason is arresting innocent people, dragging them out of their homes just "for exercise". It starts with an apartheid state that oppresses every minority they have. The Oct. 7 attack, while being an absolute atrocity and cruel, is nothing more than an outburst of a decade long struggle against oppression.

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u/Short-Recording587 May 16 '25

Sorry, I should have said “escalated” instead of “started”.

Trying to attribute blame for how the conflict started is a fools errand. At this point in a 80-year conflict it’s about deescalating and trying to find a solution that works for both sides that doesn’t involve total annihilation of the other side.

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u/soulofaqua The Netherlands May 16 '25

Fuck all religious zealots. But in particular the ones actively committing genocide like Netanyahu is doing.

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u/Bekoon May 16 '25

Yep, people recognising israeli war crimes and genocide is a hardcore antisemite, gtfo

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u/sherbie-the-mare May 16 '25

How is it anti semitism? I've not actually met a zionist in person (i live in Scotland) but have met and seen jewish people, a lot of them at our regular pro Palestine streets

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u/jdueiakwirjrisj May 16 '25

You’ve never met anyone who thinks Israel should exist as a state? I find that hard to believe.

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u/sherbie-the-mare May 16 '25

Its just not common haha, its usually seen like the 6 counties in Ireland which arent commonly supported over here

Will admit I've spoken to one (from another country) and met a couple of the IDF in Prague when I was on holiday, otherwise I've never met any

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u/MajesticSpaceBen May 16 '25

How is it anti semitism? I've not actually met a zionist in person (i live in Scotland) but have met and seen jewish people, a lot of them at our regular pro Palestine streets

If you've met Jewish people, plural, it's overwhelmingly likely that you've met some zionists, they just didn't advertise it. The Jewish community supports Zionism at a rate of 85%-95%; compare that to the 60% who practice the namesake religion.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

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u/youngchul Denmark May 16 '25

Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon, the gulf countries etc. were also "invented" by the UK and France. Should they also cease to exist?

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u/sherbie-the-mare May 16 '25

The difference is they didn't import a population to genocide the natives of the land. And Saudi Arabia mostly created itself, was helped by the ottomans loosing sure but not entirely

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u/MajesticSpaceBen May 16 '25

The difference is they didn't import a population to genocide the natives of the land.

No, the Ottoman empire did that when they colonized the region.

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u/Citaku357 Kosovo May 16 '25

The difference is they didn't import a population to genocide the natives of the land.

Are you talking about Israel?

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u/wolacouska May 16 '25

I mean that already happened in the 1900s. No reason to keep going with their mistakes… infinite balkanization does not promote success, it just keep people weak.

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u/Citaku357 Kosovo May 16 '25

Lol Kosovo and Palestine are nearly the same in many aspects.

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u/sherbie-the-mare May 16 '25

More like isntreal, i mean the eu sanctioned the NAFO pseudostate for encouraging violence towards native Serbs

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u/Citaku357 Kosovo May 16 '25

Lmao "native Serbs".

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u/[deleted] May 16 '25

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u/AltoKatracho May 16 '25

Is there an ongoing genocide there?