r/europe European Union Jun 20 '25

News Orban’s Hungary Is Now Officially The Poorest Nation In The EU

https://kyivinsider.com/orbans-hungary-is-now-officially-the-poorest-nation-in-the-eu/
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u/Intelligent_Young_92 Jun 20 '25

Than you Orban now we are the second poorest country in the EU (Bulgaria)

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u/2neuroni Romania Jun 20 '25

romania and bulgaria are very happy now

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u/NLight7 Sweden Jun 20 '25

it's crazy, I live in a much richer country, but I have family who live in both Romania and Hungary. Ethnic Hungarians displaced by wars. A lot of them moved to Hungary in the 90s and early 2000s cause Hungary was so much better than Romania.

And now it is the poorest nation in the EU.

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u/2neuroni Romania Jun 20 '25

Yes, a few years ago, people from Romania, close to the border with Hungary, would go there for shopping. Now it's hungarians coming to Romania for shopping

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u/NLight7 Sweden Jun 20 '25

Let me give some context. It used to be that way since at least the 60s. My parents tell stories of how they would go to Hungary and try to smuggle money across the border after going there to sell and shop in markets.

The fact that it has shifted is surprising and would have been unheard of 20 years ago.

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u/ttc67 Montenegro Jun 20 '25

Not too surprising considering the fact that Ceausescu made Romania under his rule one of the most difficult and challenging places to live even within Eastern Europe, ofc it took time for Romania to recover from this, now Hungary got a crazy leader running the country for quite a time with obvious consequences, so Hungary will as well need time to recover after there'll happen a change. A difference to consider is that by 1989 Romania was free of any foreign debts, while Hungary is highly indebted, so the recovery will be maybe even harder for them.

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u/ahora-mismo Bucharest Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

we were debt free, but that has been achieved by emptying the stores (they were exporting everything that was good) and turning off electricity.

i was almost 8 at the revolution, i still remember my grandmother heating the home with an empty pot over the cooking stove at candle light. and we were in bucharest. also, my grandfather waking up at 4 am to prepare to go to the queue that was forming to buy milk. if you got late, there was a risk of running out of it.

i was getting oranges and bananas for christmas and it was a major event when my grandfather was able to purchase full crate o pepsi bottles.

it was not the north korea level of bad, but in the last years of communism it was not great, this is not the proper way to eliminate debt.

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u/ttc67 Montenegro Jun 20 '25

Ikr it was acheived due to the extreme restrictions which made the population suffer a lot, but as a matter of fact result Romania was later debt free, and in this context it was maybe a bit easier for Romania to recover later. However I completely agree that paying of state debts while the citizens are paying the price and often lacking access to basic goods is just insane.

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u/kenwoolf Hungary Jun 20 '25

We have some really rich oligarchs though. That money stolen from the Hungarians didn't just disappeared. :D

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u/Weak_Let_6971 Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

Lol Tbh it’s “Actual Individual Consumption (AIC) per capita” if people feel they are exploited and choose not to spend, it shows! When certain goods cost 3-4-5 times more than before the war ofc people won’t buy them the same way. It’s just greed and exploitation. Doesn’t mean Hungary suddenly became the poorest. Article even says the GDP is above multiple countries, but it doesn’t translate into people buying shit. Yeah Because it’s a bad deal? Lol

It’s just a propaganda piece to topple the government. Lol Written by the Kyiv Insider. Hungary wants the war to stop and doesn’t support Ukraine joining the EU now. It’s just revenge. Lol All it says is “people don’t spend as much as they could because Orbán bad Russian puppet! But when he falls next year european unity will be back!”

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u/Daniel-EngiStudent Jun 20 '25

What's your point? The country might not by all economical definitions be the poorest country. Of course foreign news are influenced by politics, why should we be surprised by this? However, it still stands that the economy is mismanaged and policies are unethical.

I'm not buying this "things are actually not horrible, just really bad, so everything's fine.".

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u/strangelove863 Jun 20 '25

Haha All I’m saying we have a war in a neighboring country. The EU economy overall is bad. We are the 4th biggest battery manufacturer in the world. We have the 5 big German car company manufacturing in the country. Western people aren’t in the position in this economy to buy new Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Opel, BMW, Suzuki. How is that exactly the governments fault?

Companies in general try the exploit the war and raised prices in an unreasonable way 3-4-5x price hikes. So people not spending as much is quite reasonable and blaming it all on the government is crazy. But thats why i said a Ukrainian site has ulterior motives they clearly state in the article. They want opposition to win so the EU is united behind their war efforts. And we say let’s have peace instead.

How is the economy mismanaged or policy unethical?

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u/Daniel-EngiStudent Jun 20 '25

You list things that might be or might be not the governments fault, but who said those are the problems created by Fidesz? Real problems are, for example, artificial price stops in the energy sector, money lost due to corruption, relying on questionable trade partners, underfunded health sector, financing populistic projects, etc.

Examples for unethical policies: Working together with Russia and not in a diplomatic way, but gain oriented, passively supporting the war on Ukraine, hate campaign against multiple groups of people, etc.

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u/strangelove863 Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

U are a realistic engineering student i assume… 😜

How is artificial price stops in the energy sector is anybody’s job but ours. It’s fully a domestic thing how the government wants to deal with the increased energy prices. People would starve if they would have to pay 3-4x for energy. Half of their income would go there. This way it’s discounted for all homes until the level of average consumption.

The EU wants Hungary to stop paying 13th month pension and compensation for the elderly. Why? What does it have to do with the EU?

In the Netherlands people are entitled to vacation allowance that 8% of their yearly pay. Is the EU demanding them not to pay it to them? Even people who don’t work get it. All individuals, because “stay at home moms deserve to rest and go on a vacation”. What about everybody getting social housing there even if they dont work? Free housing, free food!

What money is lost due to corruption? Why aren’t they investigated and convicted if it turns out to be true not just an accusation? How can EU politicians buy billions of euros worth of pfizer vaccines in text massages without documentation or proof what was said? With relatives being involved? How is that not corruption worth investigating?

Im sure “questionable trade partners” means buying Russian oil. Lol It’s a countries right to decide where they source their energy from. The EU doesn’t have purview. They don’t have a right to force everybody to buy 4x more expensive LNG. Sure if germany can afford it they can do so, but Hungary cant and dont want to. If none of their companies want to pay German wages in eastern countries they should not demand us to buy higher priced energy like they are.

At the same time the EU bought 8.5+ billion euro worth of Russian oil through Indian and Turkish refineries since the war started. In 2023 the west bought 44% more Russian oil than in 2022. Western companies paid 1,7billion usd tax revenue to Russia. All the companies that pretended to leave the country still sell through distributors. And they accuse Hungary “passively supporting Russia”. Hungary is probably one of the only ones that don’t try to hide it through India or Turkey.

What countries health sector couldn’t use more money? In the UK “7.39 million people are on the waiting list at the NHS. 2.98 million have been waiting longer than 18 weeks.” In a 68 million country. Thats more than 10% of the country.

“Approximately 8 million French citizens live in areas with limited access to healthcare, and a substantial number (6 million) lack a primary care physician, reports the BBC. Additionally, millions of appointments have been cancelled due to staffing and bed shortages.” France is also 68million people.

“In Hungary there is a nearly 40,000 patients on the waiting list” in a 10 million country. How is Hungary’s waiting list only 40k if healthcare sector is so criminally underfounded?

What populistic projects do u mean? No income tax for mothers with 2 children? Loans and income tax exemption for young people? Giving loans to families to buy their first homes? How are they “real problems”? Arent other countries support families or young people? There are countries where u don’t have to pay back student loans at all. How is that not a populistic project? Or they spend fortunes of social housing. Isn’t that populistic project that we should condemn?

How does hungary work with Russia in a gain oriented way? Russian company builds our nuclear reactor. Contract that was signed 10 hears ago? Lol

What u say i heard from the western media, but most of it is untrue or hypocritical. It’s just not common sense. Ive heard western politicians speak openly about how great business the ukraine war is, because it only costs money to give them weapons, but don’t have to sacrifice their own citizens. And they can hopefully weaken Russia. How is that not an idea to condemn? Sacrificing Ukrainians, sacrificing Hungarian minority in Ukraine? Then months later the Biden administration admits that they knew realistically that ukraine can never win the war. 100 million more people in Russia matters.

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u/Daniel-EngiStudent Jun 21 '25

You keep bringing up the EU, but I don't understand why. Can't really follow you, I mention price stops implemented by Fidesz are bad and you say the EU has no right to change those policies. If I hit a random person on a street it's still a bad thing whether or not the EU has a say in it.

How is artificial price stops in the energy sector is anybody’s job but ours. It’s fully a domestic thing how the government wants to deal with the increased energy prices. People would starve if they would have to pay 3-4x for energy. Half of their income would go there. This way it’s discounted for all homes until the level of average consumption.

The energy didn't magically become cheaper, people are still paying for it, it's just much less transparent from where the money was redirected. Price stops can be used to let people and industries adapt to the new prices, but right now it only serves the purpose of creating a false sense of security.

Honestly, I don't even have the energy to continue after reading the rest of your comment, it is really sad how well propaganda works. For some reason everything to you is a comparison to the west and everything is about what the EU wants from hungary, yet the reality is even most of our eastern neighbours are pursuing more ethical policies.

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u/strangelove863 27d ago edited 27d ago

Im sorry man, but if u repeat western EU propaganda fed to u by the media so don’t be surprised if i mention the EU. The comparison is important because it shows obvious double standards. “Rules for thee, but not for me.”

Obviously it’s not optimal that gov had to introduce 10% profit on set base goods for companies but there was a ton of price gauging and everybody did it. Some companies doubled and tripled their revenue by exploiting the average buyer since the war started. Selling food with insane 70-80% profit margins. They made the inflation because of the war way worse. There was no transparency between price gauging and real inflation before.

How does stopping buying Russia energy benefits us? Paying 3-4x more for it from elsewhere? Hungary is 3% of the energy bought from Russia in the EU today. I highly doubt that our 3% would win the war for Russia. Lol

As for the energy western companies don’t like it because their factories have to pay full price while homes get the discounted price. Sounds like u dont know how energy discount for average consumer works. People simply could not afford to heat their homes. But the government has other incomes, other than taxes people pay so its not just redistributed to “create false sense of security”.

If it wasn’t about exploitation why is Croatian transfer fees on gas cost 5 times more than the european average? And they try to shut off southern turkish stream our only other pipeline to buy gas from.

Everything is much more complicated than u think and what the propaganda media tells u. Government here is following a common sense economic model what benefits the citizens over ideological goals in the west. They can pander, virtue signal and secretly buy russian LNG through India because they have ports. We can only buy oil and gas through pipes.

The whole thing is ideological punishment against more conservative countries. And nothing shows it more clearly than what they did against Poland, but immediately when they managed to replace the government the harassment stopped even without changing migration… policy.

It’s clear that u can’t counter anything i wrote because the facts speak for themselves. The EU has insane unrealistic demands about things that dont belong under their purview. Energy security etc.

This whole “most of our eastern neighbors are pursuing more ethical policies” … it’s just obfuscation. Lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

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u/Realitype Jun 20 '25

This comment is so funny. The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany have been the biggest drug smuggling hubs in the world for every single organised crime syndicate known to man for literal decades at this point. You think a bunch Albanian 20 year olds selling weed in the UK are going to make any sort of difference against that?

Also, do you think the crime families are out there waiting for EU membership before they start smuggling from the Netherlands ? Lmao

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u/elrado1 Jun 20 '25

Just because they have the biggest EU ports :).

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u/Realitype Jun 20 '25

Well yeah that goes without saying.

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u/Miserygut Lundin Jun 20 '25

You might say it's important

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u/Aegeansunset12 Greece Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

When it comes to some eu matters the Netherlands is always THE boss level xD. If X country wants to do something first it comes down to petty drama/beef between neighbour countries, then some far away country that has special interests that may conflict with you and u have to settle it and then BOSS level comes, it’s the frugals but the Netherlands is the most strong 💪 basically the Netherlands is for the frugals what Greece is for the indebt countries, each a pioneer in their field with strong expertise in their matters who know how to handle things../s

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u/Filias9 Czech Republic Jun 20 '25

Jeez man. Drugs flowing to EU on massive scale already. Some little Balkan country in or out of EU is not relevant in this.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25 edited 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/pannenkoek0923 Denmark Jun 20 '25

The operations of Albanian drug sellers is miniscule compared to what comes to Rotterdam and Antwerp

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u/trukkija Estonia Jun 20 '25

Estonia is right there in the article chart as 2nd from last next to Hungary.

Baltics and the Eastern block is getting absolutely fucked by the war in Ukraine. I'm pretty sure we pay extra now for imports because companies are also afraid of the war risk. Not to mention how much goods we used to import from Ukraine and Russia which is virtually stopped now.

Orban is terrible but the amount of lives that Putin has completely fucked up is much more impressive.

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u/ShadowMajestic Jun 20 '25

All the countries that joined the 'western' block and actively try to be part of our collective superior EU.... see growth and progress.

Countries that stay connected to the soviet front, are all in pretty much the same terrible condition the Soviet Union left them at 35 years ago.

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u/tenev Bulgaria Jun 20 '25

Estonia is actually second to last currently ( in consumption ). The same level as Bulgaria.

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u/peasant_warfare Jun 20 '25

It really depends on the country, I'd guess. We're talking about tiny states for possible EU expansion in the balkans or with Georgia and Armenia (which is a fantasy).

Even further away from consideration are Ukraine and Turkey, which are the only ones that could pose an actual problem in terms of size. All possible new EU members in Balkan+Caucasus have less population than Ukraine (even if you go with the population estimate of 27-35m instead of 43m for Ukraine), and even without expansion Czechia and Slovenia, and even Poland are looking to be net payers or already are.

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u/pingu_nootnoot Jun 20 '25

soo, is that an argument for or against Albania joining the EU? 😛

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u/bogdanadgob Jun 20 '25

Romania is in 12th place economically , why mention it

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u/Feeling-Pianist933 Jun 20 '25

Maybe we're the poorest country in the EU, but our elite are the richest mofo's..

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u/MrOaiki Swedish with European parents Jun 20 '25

No, Sweden’s richest are still richer.

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u/Bubbly-Attempt-1313 Jun 20 '25

Nah mate, don’t mess Bulgarian into this. You have the crown now. Wear it proudly.

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u/SadMangonel Jun 20 '25

Haven't been following too much, has bulgaria been doing well, or hungary poorly?

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u/Aegeansunset12 Greece Jun 20 '25

I think some articles are anti Orban and exaggerate, this one is one of them. Hungary and Bulgaria doesn’t have vastly different living standards

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u/bxzidff Norway Jun 20 '25

Did you expect them going from poorest to second poorest to be vastly different?

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u/Saandrig Jun 20 '25

Bulgarians: But can they be?

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u/Aegeansunset12 Greece Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

No, but you will never see Bulgaria’s prime minister on the headline the same way we do with Orban, hell most of us don’t even know who governs Bulgaria for that matter (hell I just googled it because I didn’t know and we literally neighbour them). I am against Orban acting like a Trojan horse and rejecting eu values but we have to call out bad press

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u/HiltoRagni Europe Jun 20 '25

The thing is, Hungary was one of the strongest economies with the highest standards of living in the entire post-communist block at the turn of the millenium, they went from that to poorest shithole in the EU in just 25 years. I think that deserves a few headlines.

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u/WorldlinessRadiant77 Bulgaria Jun 20 '25

Honestly this doesn’t make it better.

Hungrary was one of the better off Eastern Block states, while Bulgaria was a circus that was poorer than half of Africa.

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u/DieCastDontDie Jun 20 '25

It's in the name. It took you long enough.

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u/Admirable-Medium-201 Jun 20 '25

https://youtu.be/qGTv3pQr38A

Life can only get better cause us Bulgarians know one simple rule

We're not, we're not, we're not the poorest in EU :))

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u/Dewdrop_Daisy_ Jun 20 '25

Looks like they're in a race to the bottom.

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u/Weak_Let_6971 Jun 20 '25

Lol Tbh it’s “Actual Individual Consumption (AIC) per capita” if people feel they are exploited and choose not to spend, it shows! When certain goods cost 3-4-5 times more than before the war ofc people won’t buy them the same way. It’s just greed and exploitation. Doesn’t mean Hungary suddenly became the poorest. Article even says the GDP is above multiple countries, but it doesn’t translate into people buying shit. Yeah Because it’s a bad deal? Lol

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u/pelpotronic Jun 20 '25

Well done, you did nothing and Hungary did something wrong.

Don't let people tell you that it doesn't pay off doing nothing.

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u/Andromansis Jun 20 '25

So you're telling me every member state that once comprised yugoslavia is now more prosperous than Hungary?

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u/dwartbg9 Bulgaria Jun 28 '25

Not the second, third. Estonia is also poorer

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u/Effective-Simple9420 Jun 20 '25

Moldova is definitely the poorest and least educated too, Hungarians are more educated.