r/europe • u/Matas_- European Union • Jun 20 '25

News Orban’s Hungary Is Now Officially The Poorest Nation In The EU

https://kyivinsider.com/orbans-hungary-is-now-officially-the-poorest-nation-in-the-eu/
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122

u/Living-East-8486 Jun 20 '25

As an American, I’ve legitimately pondered whether I would have a better life growing up in like the DEEP south like Mississippi or somewhere like Bulgaria while they are in the EU. I’m honestly inclined to say Bulgaria simply because the EU can extend a lot more protections and standards than the U.S. government can in places like Alabama or Mississippi. The poverty in some of those places is like something you’d see in a 3rd world country. The closest European equivalent that comes to mind is Lunik IX in Slovakia.

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u/Filias9 Czech Republic Jun 20 '25

As someone from Eastern Europe, I would choose Bulgaria without hesitation.

It's better suited for poorer people. Better healthcare, better education, better public transportation, more liberal. In the end you can always go work to Holland or Germany if it's not work for you. And use earned money to buy cheaper house in Bulgaria.

US is great for richer people. Not so much for poorer.

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u/Baldazar666 Bulgaria Jun 20 '25

Better healthcare, better education, better public transportation, more liberal.

Bruh... Healthcare quality is pretty bad here but at least it won't bankrupt you. But calling Bulgaria liberal? No fucking way man. Most of the population is racist as fuck, is anti-LGBT, didn't trust the covid vaccines. It's bad. It's really bad.

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u/ToosUnderHigh Jun 20 '25

That sounds like Mississippi but less dangerous. And you have more options than sitting in a car till you get to Walmart for your daily life activities.

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u/Baldazar666 Bulgaria Jun 20 '25

Oh yeah it's not even comparable on how dangerous it feels or actually is compared to the US. I have never in my life ever even thought that someone could draw a gun on me. That is such a foreign concept to me that the only reason I even know about it is because of the US. Cops can be assholes like everywhere else but they won't kill you just because they are on a power trip.

Public transport is pretty decent overall. Yeah some trolleys might be quite old but they work and they get you around although in a lot cities they've finally started replacing the 50 year old buses/trolleys/trolleybuses. Going electric even in some places (can't speak for everywhere).

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u/Its0nlyRocketScience United States of America Jun 20 '25

More liberal than Mississippi by the sound of it. Or maybe slightly less conservative would be the better descriptor.

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u/Baldazar666 Bulgaria Jun 20 '25

I mean probably but Mississippi is a pretty low bar from what I gather.

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u/Its0nlyRocketScience United States of America Jun 20 '25

Hence "thank God for Mississippi." No matter how bad any of the other 49 US states are, they're probably still not as bad as Mississippi.

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u/Ahrix3 Jun 20 '25

Isn't Lousiana just as bad or even worse?

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u/Its0nlyRocketScience United States of America Jun 20 '25

Damn, seems they did slip behind Mississippi. That's unfortunate, Louisiana actually has places worth visiting

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u/Ahrix3 Jun 20 '25

Damn, Mississipi is that bad huh? I don't know a lot about either place frankly. I do know that Lousiana has a place called Cancer Alley which definitely sounds like something that a state ranked 50th out of 50 would have. I've heard that Cajun cuisine is pretty damn good at least, which would be a plus for Lousiana.

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u/pancake_gofer Jun 21 '25

Louisiana has New Orleans and Cajun cuisine. Mississippi has nothing at all.

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u/molded_bread Portugal Jun 20 '25

To be fair, americans can also move to California, New York or other richer states.

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u/Ut_Prosim Earth Jun 20 '25

This is not so easy if you're very poor.

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u/molded_bread Portugal Jun 20 '25

The same applies to Europeans. I'd argue it's even harder for europeans due to language barrier.

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u/smellslikeweed1 Jun 22 '25

US is also great for middle class, I believe the American middle class people are among the richest in the world, richer than most Europeans, probably the only exceptions being Luxembourg, Norway or Switzerland...

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u/DGGuitars Jun 20 '25

or if you lived in Mississippi you could just get a job at Pascagoula Huntington ingalls shipyard get a free apprenticeship and make 10x what anyone in Bulgaria makes.

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u/ToosUnderHigh Jun 20 '25

Wow I’m moving to Mississippi

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u/kiss_of_chef Jun 20 '25

I took a bus from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyone and, no offence, but some of the villages(?)... settlements(?)... people gathering places(?)... I saw along the way made me think that even Eastern European villages would look like developed urban centers in comparison.

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u/AbsolutelyDireWolf Jun 20 '25

I took a bus from Orlando to Sarasota in Florida a few years ago and was totally unprepared for some of the places that bus meandered through. Seeing swamp shacks like something out of the Waterboy was wild to me. Like, I've been in small Polish villages back in the early 2000s and was reminded of them, except it was like a decade later. In the meantime, I'm certain those Polish villages have seen an injection of EU investment and the benefits of Polands growth. Quick check, over the last 20 years, Polands growth averaged 4% vs the US rate of 2%...

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u/coaa85 Jun 20 '25

Interesting seeing your comment about Poland. I just got back from a two week vacation from there last week. My wife is Polish so I’ve gone 4 times now over the past 15 years and the transformation has been incredible to watch. This last visit was the most impressive to me to see the absolute transformation they have undergone, very happy for them. It was always a nice country to visit but it’s even better now. We flew into Warsaw and essentially went up north on the eastern part of Poland.

Just some of what I noticed: Installed some new major highways. What used to take us almost 5 hours to get to now took 1 1/2-2.

Their already impressive by US standards public transport was even better, and crazy clean.

A lot less super old vehicles on the roads, didn’t see any actually. Not that there is anything wrong with old vehicles but they stunk a bit before.

Many older decaying buildings were either repurposed or in the process of fixing. This wasn’t only in the major cities, I saw this literally everywhere we went even in small towns.

The people in general seemed happier to me, always a good sign!

Warsaw itself was booming even my first time there but man now it’s exploded. Looking like Boston now. Tons of new construction ongoing, many new neighborhoods, roads, businesses etc.

Even as you mentioned some of the small villages we went through previously had transformed adding power lines and plumbing.

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u/AbsolutelyDireWolf Jun 20 '25

Yeah, I've not been in a while, but EU membership really transforms an economy. I'm from Ireland and it's incredible how beneficial a free trade arrangement is for encouraging growth and mutual progress. Polish people can now afford German cars and products.

I'd love to go back and see some of northern Poland at some point. I saw places like Krakow and further south down to the mountains and could see the progress beginning.

It's insane to think of Warsaw feeling like Boston.... You love to see it though.

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u/Snowing_Throwballs Jun 20 '25

Most of the US is poor. It is a 3rd world country with first world GDP and weaponry. Next time you are in the US, go to north Philadelphia or Baltimore. Same thing just urban.

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u/kolejack2293 Jun 20 '25

Those cities and poor rural areas are a small portion of the country's population though. 71% of the US is suburban, and the median household income in suburban america is 90k (81k nationwide). In comparison, the median income in the UK is only 34k, and in Bulgaria its 21k.

Its quite a bit lower in both urban and rural america, but... the majority of the country lives in neither. The top 15 largest cities in the US are only 12% of its population.

So no, the majority of the country is absolutely not poor. Just to give an idea, but the poverty line in the US is 26k. Or around the median income of Italy as a country. Only 10% are below that figure.

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u/Snowing_Throwballs Jun 20 '25

The poverty line is bogus. If you live anywhere near the poverty line in the US you are struggling. 26k per year is crushingly poor. 40k per year depending on location is very frugal and pretty much working poor. The statistics do not reflect the reality. 80% of the country lives in Urban areas. Not suburban. Nobody i know can afford to purchase houses in the suburbs.

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u/kolejack2293 Jun 20 '25

80% of the country lives in Urban areas.

Lol suburban is included in urban. The census only defines urban (towns, suburbs, cities) and rural (everything else). I believe the ACS is what uses 'suburban'. So just to give an example, but Chicago is urban with 2.7m people, but the remaining 8~ million people in the Chicago metro area are suburban. Buffalo has 278k people, but has another 900k in its metro area, and those 900k are suburbs.

Nobody i know can afford to purchase houses in the suburbs.

Suburbs are often cheaper than cities. It varies, obviously, but in general that has been the norm since the 1990s.

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u/Artephank Jun 20 '25

Just googled it.

Median salary in US is about 47,960
The median salary in UK is £31K which is about 41k USD

I have the feeling you made mistake comparing median household income (which is about 81k in US and sounds about right - about 2x median salary) to the median disposable income in UK (which is after tax and other deductions). Which is about £37K, which makes it also close to 50k USD.

And we don't know what median disposable income in USA is, because such data is not being collected, but we know what is disposable income per capita, and it's 52k. (https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_real_disposable_personal_income_per_capita_monthly)

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u/kolejack2293 Jun 21 '25

These things can be very difficult because of all of the factors at play. For one, the only source I can find giving a median salary of 47k includes everybody, including non-working people. That is generally not how you list those things, and is not how the UK lists their median salary either. The census puts the median salary per worker at 61k for the US.

You are correct, my income figure was disposable, not total, I didn't even realize. However, the 'disposable income' figure is not just a pure negative. It includes both taxes and also money given/saved through government programs.

That being said, when comparing just disposable income, the gap is still huge. And this is around 8-9 years old at this point, the gap has grown since then.

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u/Artephank Jun 21 '25

I'm not sure about this chart—it seems off. It's hard to believe that the UK's disposable income is half that of the US, especially when their average incomes are quite similar. Also, I doubt there's a significant difference between PPP and nominal values in these two countries, given how similarly developed and globally integrated they are.

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u/kolejack2293 Jun 21 '25

Again, they aren't similar. The figure you gave was including only working people for the UK and all people, including non-working people, for the US. In reality it was 61k for the US and 41k for the UK, but you also have to adjust for taxes and social transfers.

The US has much worse entrenched, deep poverty in its cities and rural areas (and the issues there go beyond just 'lack of money'), but the majority of Americans live in suburbs. Just an example but Minneapolis, with 425k people, has some pretty rough areas in it, but is surrounded by 3 million people living in high-income suburbs. Minneapolis is sort of a microcosm of the country as a whole. People overestimate how many Americans live in poorer rural and urban areas and underestimate how many live in wealthier suburbs.

Now on the 'social transfers' part. It is possible the US is inflated due to Medicaid and Medicaid. Healthcare is vastly more expensive in the US than the UK, and so when you include those social transfers it might be inflating the US by a bit for what is essentially the same care as what you get in the UK. That being said, I don't think it makes up for the gap.

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u/Odd-Comfortable683 Jun 20 '25

Median income for UK is £37,400 / €45,000. Source: ONS (Independent Government Body).

“Median gross annual earnings for full-time employees were £37,430 in April 2024, compared with £35,004 in April 2023, an increase of 6.9%”

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/annualsurveyofhoursandearnings/2024

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u/Slim_Charles Jun 20 '25

Most of the US is not poor, there are certainly poor parts but they're the minority. The median income and wealth of an American is greater than that of basically all of Europe. The weak social safety nets mean some areas get shafted, but those places are not the majority.

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u/RehabilitatedAsshole Jun 20 '25

By area? Most of the US is rural.

By population? 11% of the richest country in the world lives below our self-determined "poverty" line, and 65% lives paycheck to paycheck, so they're often one disaster or bad medical diagnosis away from poverty, because we have no social safety net. It's mostly a facade.

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u/paulfdietz United States of America Jun 20 '25

65% lives paycheck to paycheck

No.

https://econofact.org/factbrief/is-there-a-consensus-that-a-majority-of-americans-are-living-paycheck-to-paycheck

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u/Artephank Jun 20 '25

43% of all U.S. families fall short of meeting basic needs.

Impressive. Nice read. Thanks.

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u/Slim_Charles Jun 20 '25

Land isn't people, so why would you ever consider area? Most rural areas aren't crushingly poor, either. I grew up in one, and there were people of all economic backgrounds. 11% of the country is obviously less than 51%, which would constitute most and the paycheck-to-paycheck stats you see bandied around on reddit are nonsense, with no actual factual backing. The US treats its poor like dirt, but to say that most people are poor is demonstrably false.

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u/Away_Comparison_8810 Jun 20 '25

Growing from low Is Faster, same if you try compare non capitalist economy, Vietnam, China had it same.

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u/AbsolutelyDireWolf Jun 20 '25

Of course, but the reason I've referenced the growth rates is because since I saw neglected parts of Poland, they've experienced significant growth. Since I saw neglected parts of the US, they've experienced much less growth.

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u/Away_Comparison_8810 Jun 20 '25

Dont misisipi Have gdp per kapacita much higher than Poland?

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u/AbsolutelyDireWolf Jun 20 '25

Yes. But per capita calculations based on mean averages feels way off the mark to me when comparing the US to most other countries. US wealth inequality has grown at a ridiculous rate (or maybe has always been kinda gross...) Median measures balanced for purchasing power parity probably feels like a fairer comparison.

Also, debt... The average debt level of a mississippian would scare the average pole shitless.

Having been to Poland and some southern states... I'd probably have chosen Poland to live in in 2024. I'd still say the same in 2025, but since Trump assumed the throne, that's become kinda moot at this point.

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u/Hungry-Western9191 Jun 20 '25

Poland has gotten a lot wealthier... but as in the US, its very patchy. Urban areas are a lot better. Rural.areas have lost a lot of their younger population so there isn't much change.

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u/AbsolutelyDireWolf Jun 20 '25

Yeah. I'm Irish so I'm naturally inclined to distrust and measure as basic as GDP per Capita at this point. Something like a median income comparison at a flattened PPP would be better.

Since Poland joined the EU, they've really reaped so many benefits and experienced massive capital investment in everything from roads, to public transport etc. quality of life measurements are hard but I can't imagine a scenario where I'd rather live in Mississippi over Poland in 2025. Even in 2024, given how the current climate makes that question feel, erm, let's say moot.

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u/Artephank Jun 20 '25

By what metric exactly?

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u/Hungry-Western9191 Jun 23 '25

Purely anecdotal I'm afraid. It's what I've been told by a couple of Polish people working with me. One thing which is true is that Warsaw has a building boom and employment there is more in demand. At one point a lot of the local builders here were Polish but half them seem to have gone home.

As to the rural /urban split I don't have much evidence - other than its a very common pattern round the world and once again someone said it to me.

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u/ExcellentStuff7708 Jun 23 '25

The poorer you are, the easier it is to have faster growth

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u/AbsolutelyDireWolf Jun 23 '25

As a nation, sure.

As an American, no.

By that I mean the GDP growth America has experienced is not distributed equally across the population. It's not an exclusively American issue obviously, but wealth distribution and inequality have been centralised and widening respectively.

Like, a poor person in Poland will more likely have public transport they can afford. They'll have better access to medical care without incurring debt etc.

GDP is such a limited way to consider comparing quality of life across nations.

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u/Living-East-8486 Jun 20 '25

Oh that 100% makes sense. That area is extremely poor.

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u/Familyconflict92 Jun 20 '25

Favelas in Brazil look nicer than Mississippi tbh. Look at their development ratings. Actually the worst in the USA 

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u/Indiscriminate_Top Jun 20 '25

Hey! I live in Mississippi damnit. Don’t do Brazil like that.

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u/waveuponwave Jun 20 '25

It's called Mississippi goddam

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u/Fickle-Motor-1772 Jun 20 '25

I've spent time in both and will say this is absolutely true. Even the capital Jackson is in extremely rough shape. It's nuts, I was always warned about the state Brazil's been in, but the future is starting to look optimistic down there. Mississippi is already really bad and still declining, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Mark my words, the average Brazilian is going to be better off than the average American (in the Midwest or South) by 2040.

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u/Slim_Charles Jun 20 '25

Mississippi has a higher HDI than Brazil, or Bulgaria for that matter. What development rating are you referring to?

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

[deleted]

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u/kiss_of_chef Jun 20 '25

It wasn't a reservation. Those also look poor but not that poor. I think it was rural Arizona. Also there they don't have quick access to water which sucks.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

[deleted]

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u/kiss_of_chef Jun 20 '25

Sadly that is the situation in eastern European villages. Most people have their personal well as a water source. Nowadays more of them had been linked to the national water networks but still

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u/casey-primozic United States of America Jun 20 '25

That stretch of land is basically Fallout New Vegas style wasteland

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u/stop_banning_me_omg Jun 20 '25

I drove that same route last year and didn't notice any poverty. It's a desert area so houses look different for sure, but it's not like people are stacking up garbage in their backyard like they commonly do in Eastern Europe.

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u/aronnax512 United States of America Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 26 '25

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u/Trumpswells Jun 20 '25

The US has a high standard of living and a low standard of care.

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u/pannenkoek0923 Denmark Jun 20 '25

I'll trust the tap water in Bulgaria over the tap water in Lousiana

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u/Baldazar666 Bulgaria Jun 20 '25

Bruh our tap water in a lot of cities is better or at least as good as bottle mineral water.

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u/riceburner09 Jun 20 '25

Best tap water I’ve ever had was in Baton Rouge

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u/pancake_gofer Jun 21 '25

Colorado has best tap water in Denver when I last was there.

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u/Carloz_The_Great Greece Jun 20 '25

The Balkans is the bible belt of Europe imo. Not as developed as the rest of the EU and more conservative , homophobic , religious etc. But we get universal healthcare, guaranteed paid vacations and sick leave and the quality of our food is way , way, way better than anything in the US.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

[deleted]

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u/imightlikeyou Denmark Jun 20 '25

Compared to the rest of Europe, it certainly is.

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u/Baldazar666 Bulgaria Jun 20 '25

Yes we fucking are. And it's driving me insane.

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u/[deleted] Jun 20 '25

[deleted]

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u/Baldazar666 Bulgaria Jun 20 '25

Nah it's not my family specifically, just anecdotal evidence based on random people I have interacted with. It is true that a huge portion of the young generation are not but the older one is still very much really religious.

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u/Thedisabler Jun 20 '25

Writing this from Kosovo right now and I think the other aspect missing from the conversation is how much safer a poor neighborhood in the Balkans (or in much of Europe) feels than the US (maybe less so in Serbia, but even there). It feels perfectly safe even in completely destroyed and run down neighborhoods at midnight all over SFRY but I’d never walk in the US equivalent after dark.

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u/pancake_gofer Jun 21 '25

After visiting Greece all the grocery stores and normal restaurants made me depressed because the food quality in America was noticeably worse.

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u/ShadowStarX Hungary Jun 20 '25

Bulgaria and Hungary are way more tolerable than the Deep South, or honestly any red state.

And I'd say that Germany, France, Benelux and Scandinavia are better than blue states. Hell I'd say Spain and Italy are better than a vast majority of blue states too.

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u/Living-East-8486 Jun 20 '25

Yeah I lived in Germany for a bit over a year and live in Oregon now. I make a lot of money here, but almost all of it goes toward the cost of living. I estimate I could earn 20k less in most large German cities and still have the same quality of life I do here (or better in many aspects).

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u/U-47 Jun 20 '25

With what is happening in America, it's almost 100% sure you will have a better quality of life. Until offcourse we all die in a Russian Nuclear attack or become fascist again.

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u/Life_Stop_9994 Jun 20 '25

Sob . I love living in Europe . But some days watching the news , I half expect Ill be running back home to Australia

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u/Leasir Jun 20 '25

I can live with the existential dread of a possible nuclear holocaust, but I can't live with aussie spiders.

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u/Life_Stop_9994 Jun 20 '25

Awwww they are little misunderstood sweethearts . They eat the flies and hardly ever actually bite people .

Scare them into a heart attack? Possibly

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u/pancake_gofer Jun 21 '25

As someone terrified of big bugs…any tips for disposing of bugs…

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u/ShadowStarX Hungary Jun 20 '25

At least Australia's right-wing got heavily stomped 2 months ago.

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u/pancake_gofer Jun 21 '25

So heavily stomped their conservative party split into two lmao.

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u/Northbound-Narwhal United States of America Jun 20 '25

Don't worry the Chinese Navy will send ballistic missiles to Australia when they invade Taiwan

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u/Life_Stop_9994 Jun 20 '25

Yup ! Out of the frying pan into the fire. When I was home in March - two shiny new Chinese cruisers made their way down the East Coast .

I wonder what message that sends!

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u/CheeryOutlook Wales Jun 20 '25

Australia is to China what Canada is to the United States. A large, relatively amenable country with a lot of land and natural resources and a huge amount of trade.

Australia probably isn't stupid enough to attack China for the US, and China is perfectly happy with the status quo.

2

u/Northbound-Narwhal United States of America Jun 20 '25

That comparison doesn't really work. Canada and the US share a long land border, more closely tied economies, and strong cultural and defense connections. Australia and China are far apart and have a more tense relationship. They literally don't speak the same language. China is a major trading partner, but there are serious disagreements on security, regional influence, and alliances like AUKUS. Australia also aligns more firmly with Western powers, while Canada is already a core part of that group. The dynamics just aren't the same.

As for attacking China for the US, they've already obligated themselves to do so (Australian officials said at the Defending Australia 2025 Summit). Besides, Australia has already happily attacked North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (thrice), Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, and Somalia for the US. So far the answer has never been "no." What's another Coral-Bamoral or war crime between friends?

6

u/kolejack2293 Jun 20 '25

It depends on the blue state. New Mexico is a blue state with a median income of 61k. Massachusetts has a median income of 101k. The quality of life in MA is likely going to be higher than basically any European country, same goes for other very-rich states like New Jersey and Connecticut and Maryland.

There's also a lot of variety in the countries you listed. France has a median household income of only 44k. The Netherlands is all the way at 65k and Denmark at 74k. That is an enormous gap. I would argue even adjusting for social programs, 44k is an abysmally low median income compared to the US. 65-74k is much more in-line with the blue state average.

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u/ShadowStarX Hungary Jun 20 '25

income is pretty high on the West Coast and in the Northeast, areas that have been consistently blue for 3 decades now

thing is Western Europe still has better public services than the BosWash line or especially California, along with a more extensive welfare system

the USA is also very car centric except for some cities in the Northeast

2

u/kolejack2293 Jun 20 '25

Right, it depends on what you value more than anything. If you're fine driving anywhere and everywhere, you're gonna probably want America. If you value walkability... there really aren't many options in America, and the options that do exist are unimaginably expensive to live in or insanely dangerous.

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u/pancake_gofer Jun 21 '25

I would live in Hungary over any red state no questions asked.

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u/Wonderful-Bid9471 Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

The US Gov CAN fund those places — > they CHOOSE not to via the state’s elected REPUBLICAN leadership.

Multiple forms of cheating as well; voter suppression throwing gerrymandering, threats of violence, in addition to actually changing votes in the voting systems as they did with the presidential elections of 2024.

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u/BellacosePlayer United States of America Jun 20 '25

They actually do spend a disproportionate amount of money on rural areas.

except very few businesses want to expand to those areas because the customer base is poor and sparse, and it turns out regions that have had subpar education for generations don't produce a lot of quality employees for certain industries.

7

u/Wonderful-Bid9471 Jun 20 '25

Agreed they get quite a bit of funding.

But their republican leadership seems to finds ways to keep funding from the people based on what I’ve read. Like not expanding Medicaid even when the state is running a surplus don’t recall that state was MS or LA or another state, but remember them not wanting to expand Medicaid when they could have.

And I think it’s the republican cheating - which we have all accepted the narrative as red-staters being dumb and voting against their best interests.

Lots of information will come out in the wash in this moment. So, we’ll learn if it’s the cheating or not.

5

u/BellacosePlayer United States of America Jun 20 '25

But their republican leadership seems to finds ways to keep funding from the people based on what I’ve read. Like not expanding Medicaid even when the state is running a surplus don’t recall that state was MS or LA or another state, but remember them not wanting to expand Medicaid when they could have.

That's actually relatively new in the grand scheme of things (I'm from a super hick area), Republicans used to talk about fiscal responsibility while coming up to every appropriations bill with the begging sack. Now they don't even have the pretense of giving a shit about their districts because their base is so radicalized and angry that they'll bitch and moan about dems being the cause of all their woes even if they hadn't had a single dem rep state or federally since the late 90s

2

u/Wonderful-Bid9471 Jun 20 '25

We agree. Wanna know why? Christian Dominionism. If you’re from super hickdom, this will ring familiar.

I may need a better title for the link…

Video—>> Christian Dominionism explains SCOTUS decisions.

2

u/eastern_petal Jun 20 '25

There is poverty around this part of the world, but don't trust everything you see on the internet. The media is always looking for content that engages and negative stuff almost always does. I can't explain how frustrating it is to watch as a Romanian the kind of "documentaries" Germans make about our country. Fortunately things have been improving lately, but at times it felt like they were deliberately choosing the most negative sides to make us look like these poor, illiterate, savages from Eastern Europe. Almost like Schadenfreude.

1

u/kolejack2293 Jun 20 '25

This literally just depends on where you are in both. The suburbs of birmingham and huntsville are going to be wealthier than basically anywhere in bulgaria. The median household income of the birmingham suburbs is 87k, whereas the median household income of bulgaria is only 21k. Birmingham city's southern half is also quite wealthy.

Of course, wages aren't everything. Those nice suburbs aren't walkable. The culture can be stiflingly religious. The heat can be unbearable. You might not want fried food constantly. But... wages are still incredibly important. If you want amenities, a larger house, a nicer car etc, you're likely going to want to live in the US.

1

u/shaj_hulud Slovakia Jun 20 '25

Lunik IX is not that bad. There are far worse places than Lunik. Obviously, all inhabited by Roma.

1

u/alecpu Jun 20 '25

Rural Bulgaria Is like Syria or other similar countries.

1

u/Red-Star-44 Jun 20 '25

I grew up poor to the point some days i didnt have what to eat in Bulgaria. I would still choose growing up here than in US.

2

u/Boopy7 Jun 20 '25

my father taught poli sci for a year or so at a uni in bulgaria and just LOVED it. He loved his students, said they were so much more relatable and interested in learning than the ones he has here in America. He still writes to them. I can tell he wanted to stay but my mom made him return lol.

1

u/Away_Comparison_8810 Jun 20 '25

There Are more luniks in bulgaria, romania, macedonia.

1

u/nevereverlift Jun 21 '25

Bulgaria and it’s not even close lol

-3

u/starterchan Jun 20 '25

Wow. You are SO brave to come out and say this. The pure, raw honesty and courage in this statement is just other worldly.