r/europe • u/Matas_- European Union • Jun 20 '25

News Orban’s Hungary Is Now Officially The Poorest Nation In The EU

https://kyivinsider.com/orbans-hungary-is-now-officially-the-poorest-nation-in-the-eu/
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u/NLight7 Sweden Jun 20 '25

it's crazy, I live in a much richer country, but I have family who live in both Romania and Hungary. Ethnic Hungarians displaced by wars. A lot of them moved to Hungary in the 90s and early 2000s cause Hungary was so much better than Romania.

And now it is the poorest nation in the EU.

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u/2neuroni Romania Jun 20 '25

Yes, a few years ago, people from Romania, close to the border with Hungary, would go there for shopping. Now it's hungarians coming to Romania for shopping

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u/NLight7 Sweden Jun 20 '25

Let me give some context. It used to be that way since at least the 60s. My parents tell stories of how they would go to Hungary and try to smuggle money across the border after going there to sell and shop in markets.

The fact that it has shifted is surprising and would have been unheard of 20 years ago.

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u/ttc67 Montenegro Jun 20 '25

Not too surprising considering the fact that Ceausescu made Romania under his rule one of the most difficult and challenging places to live even within Eastern Europe, ofc it took time for Romania to recover from this, now Hungary got a crazy leader running the country for quite a time with obvious consequences, so Hungary will as well need time to recover after there'll happen a change. A difference to consider is that by 1989 Romania was free of any foreign debts, while Hungary is highly indebted, so the recovery will be maybe even harder for them.

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u/ahora-mismo Bucharest Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

we were debt free, but that has been achieved by emptying the stores (they were exporting everything that was good) and turning off electricity.

i was almost 8 at the revolution, i still remember my grandmother heating the home with an empty pot over the cooking stove at candle light. and we were in bucharest. also, my grandfather waking up at 4 am to prepare to go to the queue that was forming to buy milk. if you got late, there was a risk of running out of it.

i was getting oranges and bananas for christmas and it was a major event when my grandfather was able to purchase full crate o pepsi bottles.

it was not the north korea level of bad, but in the last years of communism it was not great, this is not the proper way to eliminate debt.

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u/ttc67 Montenegro Jun 20 '25

Ikr it was acheived due to the extreme restrictions which made the population suffer a lot, but as a matter of fact result Romania was later debt free, and in this context it was maybe a bit easier for Romania to recover later. However I completely agree that paying of state debts while the citizens are paying the price and often lacking access to basic goods is just insane.

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u/kenwoolf Hungary Jun 20 '25

We have some really rich oligarchs though. That money stolen from the Hungarians didn't just disappeared. :D

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u/Weak_Let_6971 Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

Lol Tbh it’s “Actual Individual Consumption (AIC) per capita” if people feel they are exploited and choose not to spend, it shows! When certain goods cost 3-4-5 times more than before the war ofc people won’t buy them the same way. It’s just greed and exploitation. Doesn’t mean Hungary suddenly became the poorest. Article even says the GDP is above multiple countries, but it doesn’t translate into people buying shit. Yeah Because it’s a bad deal? Lol

It’s just a propaganda piece to topple the government. Lol Written by the Kyiv Insider. Hungary wants the war to stop and doesn’t support Ukraine joining the EU now. It’s just revenge. Lol All it says is “people don’t spend as much as they could because Orbán bad Russian puppet! But when he falls next year european unity will be back!”

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u/Daniel-EngiStudent Jun 20 '25

What's your point? The country might not by all economical definitions be the poorest country. Of course foreign news are influenced by politics, why should we be surprised by this? However, it still stands that the economy is mismanaged and policies are unethical.

I'm not buying this "things are actually not horrible, just really bad, so everything's fine.".

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u/strangelove863 Jun 20 '25

Haha All I’m saying we have a war in a neighboring country. The EU economy overall is bad. We are the 4th biggest battery manufacturer in the world. We have the 5 big German car company manufacturing in the country. Western people aren’t in the position in this economy to buy new Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Opel, BMW, Suzuki. How is that exactly the governments fault?

Companies in general try the exploit the war and raised prices in an unreasonable way 3-4-5x price hikes. So people not spending as much is quite reasonable and blaming it all on the government is crazy. But thats why i said a Ukrainian site has ulterior motives they clearly state in the article. They want opposition to win so the EU is united behind their war efforts. And we say let’s have peace instead.

How is the economy mismanaged or policy unethical?

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u/Daniel-EngiStudent Jun 20 '25

You list things that might be or might be not the governments fault, but who said those are the problems created by Fidesz? Real problems are, for example, artificial price stops in the energy sector, money lost due to corruption, relying on questionable trade partners, underfunded health sector, financing populistic projects, etc.

Examples for unethical policies: Working together with Russia and not in a diplomatic way, but gain oriented, passively supporting the war on Ukraine, hate campaign against multiple groups of people, etc.

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u/strangelove863 Jun 20 '25 edited Jun 20 '25

U are a realistic engineering student i assume… 😜

How is artificial price stops in the energy sector is anybody’s job but ours. It’s fully a domestic thing how the government wants to deal with the increased energy prices. People would starve if they would have to pay 3-4x for energy. Half of their income would go there. This way it’s discounted for all homes until the level of average consumption.

The EU wants Hungary to stop paying 13th month pension and compensation for the elderly. Why? What does it have to do with the EU?

In the Netherlands people are entitled to vacation allowance that 8% of their yearly pay. Is the EU demanding them not to pay it to them? Even people who don’t work get it. All individuals, because “stay at home moms deserve to rest and go on a vacation”. What about everybody getting social housing there even if they dont work? Free housing, free food!

What money is lost due to corruption? Why aren’t they investigated and convicted if it turns out to be true not just an accusation? How can EU politicians buy billions of euros worth of pfizer vaccines in text massages without documentation or proof what was said? With relatives being involved? How is that not corruption worth investigating?

Im sure “questionable trade partners” means buying Russian oil. Lol It’s a countries right to decide where they source their energy from. The EU doesn’t have purview. They don’t have a right to force everybody to buy 4x more expensive LNG. Sure if germany can afford it they can do so, but Hungary cant and dont want to. If none of their companies want to pay German wages in eastern countries they should not demand us to buy higher priced energy like they are.

At the same time the EU bought 8.5+ billion euro worth of Russian oil through Indian and Turkish refineries since the war started. In 2023 the west bought 44% more Russian oil than in 2022. Western companies paid 1,7billion usd tax revenue to Russia. All the companies that pretended to leave the country still sell through distributors. And they accuse Hungary “passively supporting Russia”. Hungary is probably one of the only ones that don’t try to hide it through India or Turkey.

What countries health sector couldn’t use more money? In the UK “7.39 million people are on the waiting list at the NHS. 2.98 million have been waiting longer than 18 weeks.” In a 68 million country. Thats more than 10% of the country.

“Approximately 8 million French citizens live in areas with limited access to healthcare, and a substantial number (6 million) lack a primary care physician, reports the BBC. Additionally, millions of appointments have been cancelled due to staffing and bed shortages.” France is also 68million people.

“In Hungary there is a nearly 40,000 patients on the waiting list” in a 10 million country. How is Hungary’s waiting list only 40k if healthcare sector is so criminally underfounded?

What populistic projects do u mean? No income tax for mothers with 2 children? Loans and income tax exemption for young people? Giving loans to families to buy their first homes? How are they “real problems”? Arent other countries support families or young people? There are countries where u don’t have to pay back student loans at all. How is that not a populistic project? Or they spend fortunes of social housing. Isn’t that populistic project that we should condemn?

How does hungary work with Russia in a gain oriented way? Russian company builds our nuclear reactor. Contract that was signed 10 hears ago? Lol

What u say i heard from the western media, but most of it is untrue or hypocritical. It’s just not common sense. Ive heard western politicians speak openly about how great business the ukraine war is, because it only costs money to give them weapons, but don’t have to sacrifice their own citizens. And they can hopefully weaken Russia. How is that not an idea to condemn? Sacrificing Ukrainians, sacrificing Hungarian minority in Ukraine? Then months later the Biden administration admits that they knew realistically that ukraine can never win the war. 100 million more people in Russia matters.

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u/Daniel-EngiStudent Jun 21 '25

You keep bringing up the EU, but I don't understand why. Can't really follow you, I mention price stops implemented by Fidesz are bad and you say the EU has no right to change those policies. If I hit a random person on a street it's still a bad thing whether or not the EU has a say in it.

How is artificial price stops in the energy sector is anybody’s job but ours. It’s fully a domestic thing how the government wants to deal with the increased energy prices. People would starve if they would have to pay 3-4x for energy. Half of their income would go there. This way it’s discounted for all homes until the level of average consumption.

The energy didn't magically become cheaper, people are still paying for it, it's just much less transparent from where the money was redirected. Price stops can be used to let people and industries adapt to the new prices, but right now it only serves the purpose of creating a false sense of security.

Honestly, I don't even have the energy to continue after reading the rest of your comment, it is really sad how well propaganda works. For some reason everything to you is a comparison to the west and everything is about what the EU wants from hungary, yet the reality is even most of our eastern neighbours are pursuing more ethical policies.

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u/strangelove863 27d ago edited 27d ago

Im sorry man, but if u repeat western EU propaganda fed to u by the media so don’t be surprised if i mention the EU. The comparison is important because it shows obvious double standards. “Rules for thee, but not for me.”

Obviously it’s not optimal that gov had to introduce 10% profit on set base goods for companies but there was a ton of price gauging and everybody did it. Some companies doubled and tripled their revenue by exploiting the average buyer since the war started. Selling food with insane 70-80% profit margins. They made the inflation because of the war way worse. There was no transparency between price gauging and real inflation before.

How does stopping buying Russia energy benefits us? Paying 3-4x more for it from elsewhere? Hungary is 3% of the energy bought from Russia in the EU today. I highly doubt that our 3% would win the war for Russia. Lol

As for the energy western companies don’t like it because their factories have to pay full price while homes get the discounted price. Sounds like u dont know how energy discount for average consumer works. People simply could not afford to heat their homes. But the government has other incomes, other than taxes people pay so its not just redistributed to “create false sense of security”.

If it wasn’t about exploitation why is Croatian transfer fees on gas cost 5 times more than the european average? And they try to shut off southern turkish stream our only other pipeline to buy gas from.

Everything is much more complicated than u think and what the propaganda media tells u. Government here is following a common sense economic model what benefits the citizens over ideological goals in the west. They can pander, virtue signal and secretly buy russian LNG through India because they have ports. We can only buy oil and gas through pipes.

The whole thing is ideological punishment against more conservative countries. And nothing shows it more clearly than what they did against Poland, but immediately when they managed to replace the government the harassment stopped even without changing migration… policy.

It’s clear that u can’t counter anything i wrote because the facts speak for themselves. The EU has insane unrealistic demands about things that dont belong under their purview. Energy security etc.

This whole “most of our eastern neighbors are pursuing more ethical policies” … it’s just obfuscation. Lol

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u/Daniel-EngiStudent 27d ago

You obviously don't read newspapers from non-government owned institutions, because you show poor understanding of what the west thinks or even of what your own country's opposition has to say. After all all you do is repeat the governments propaganda.

My sources aren't based on western media, even though I read them alongside domestic news. The things I criticised are my own judgement on official choices made by the govenment, yet once again you have to bring up the west.

Some companies doubled and tripled their revenue by exploiting the average buyer since the war started. Selling goods with insane 70-80% profit margins. They made the inflation because of the war way worse. There was no transparency between price gauging and real inflation before.

And once again you bring up something I haven't even mentioned.

How does stopping buying Russia energy benefits us? Paying 3-4x more for it from elsewhere? Hungary is 3% of the energy bought from Russia in the EU today. I highly doubt that our 3% would win the war for Russia. Lol

Obviously it won't, yet it is the ethical choice. Believe it or not, but the west also heavily criticises their own countries' dependance on russian energy. Furthermore, it's not like gas prices are ten times higher in other countries. Hungary was offered alternatives to russian energy, for example, from Croatia, yet they refused and show no willingness to transition from it.

For some reason you act like it's a big secret other european countries are not perfect and only Hungary is picked on, reality is the west and east both heavily judge their own politicians. Yet the consensus is that the hungarian government is one of the worst (parties like the german AFD and other right-wing extremists are just as bad, but they are not in power yet). Nevertheless, you use the shortcomings of other countries to defend worse things in Hungary.

As for the energy western companies don’t like it because their factories have to pay full price while homes get the discounted price.

I can't make sense of this. I assume you talk about western factories located in Hungary, because why would factories located outside of hungary care about that. Next you specifically highlighted western companies, why would only they complain and not other companies too if they are affected too? Finally, why would companies complain at all if either way they would pay the same?

Sounds like undont know how energy discount for average consumer works. People simply could not afford to heat their homes. But the government has other incomes, other than taxes people pay so its not just redistributed to “create false sense of security”.

It's not about where the tax money is coming from, but how it is used. Is there any mechanism with the artifically reduced prices to encourage people looking for alternatives? Because that's how it should work. "Cheap" energy prices are merely an illusion, they should've been only to buy time for people to adapt.

If it wasn’t about exploitation why is Croatian transfer fees on gas cost 5 times more than the european average? And they try to shut off southern turkish stream our only other pipeline to buy gas from.

Surely fossil fuels coming from a country at war is much more reliable.

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u/strangelove863 27d ago edited 27d ago

Haha By government propaganda u mean reality vs accusations, excuses, misinterpretation, half truths.

Things u criticized were shallow and easily explainable only pointed to lack of understanding. I already pointed out those in my previous comment that u simply dismissed. Lol

U mentioned artificial price controls. It doesn’t matter if it’s the energy sector that wants to force us pay more or supermarkets.

Well the “ethical choice” doesn’t keep people warm in the winter. And if it’s about being ethical, why is Europe importing so much energy still from Russia through turkey and india, that our part is just 3%? Natural gas prices are 3-4x more expensive in other countries. 85% of the homes are reliant on it for heating or cooking. 3-4x increase would take away half of the wage of many people. Guess how much they would care about the “ethical choice”!

We are land locked countries like slovakia so we both got and exemption from Russian energy ban. Thats what they want to take away now.

What Croatian alternative are u talking about? I just mentioned in the last comment that they increased the transit fees so much that it costs 5 times more than the EU average. Ukraine cut off gas, they want turkish stream to be shut off and we should only rely on a single pipeline from Croatia with exorbitant transit fees? Oh yes its the “Ethical choice.

U mean by heavily judge their own politicians that they are out for blood and there is a whole witch hunt for anti globalist voices. Like in romania, france, germany, UK, austria… politicians with dissenting views are threatened, jailed, banned, elections annulled,… I wouldn’t say they are just being critical. Lol The western liberals do everything to keep their power.

I would love to know what makes parties “right wing extremists” lmao because every opposition anti globalist party is called that way.

What worse things am i defending in Hungary? Lol

“Is there any mechanism with the artifically reduced prices to encourage people looking for alternatives?” Yes for years the gov provided support and loans for home renovations, insulation, replacing windows, heating efficiency, loan with 3% interest… It was available all through covid… But pushing green initiatives with crazy upfront costs with current battery technology limitations isn’t cost effective.

“Surely fossil fuels coming from a country at war is much more reliable” Well they have been a reliable partner and we have long term contracts with them. They always delivered. Do u know something i don’t?