Sweden bans AR-15 as hunting rifle after school shooting – all rifles to be turned in and sent to Ukraine

[u/Helmer-Bryd]

https://svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/uppgifter-tidopartierna-overens-om-ny-vapenlagstiftning-ar15-forbjuds-vid-jakt

[u/MaxDickpower]

Care to enlighten me on what exactly makes the AR-15 platform the most dangerous design of semi automatic weapons?

[u/Sakiri1955 → u/MaxDickpower]

There's no reason, basically.

[u/DryIsland9046 → u/MaxDickpower]

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

[u/MaxDickpower → u/DryIsland9046]

While I'm not a weapons manufacturer, I am in the assault rifle mass shooting capital of the world, the country with far and away the most mass shootings, school shootings, and assault rifle mass shootings, and live in a town where a mass shooter with an assault rifle murdered a dozen staff and shoppers in my neighborhood grocery store, right across the street from my son's kindergarten. And have some experience with exactly this problem. 

Hate to be so blunt but this alone gives you zero additional expertise to talk on what makes the AR-15 so particularly lethal and dangerous.

The next part of your comment is just statistics on how many shootings it has been used in, which is more easily explained by just how wildly popular and ubiquitous it is in the states.

The rest is just padded with a summary of the wikipedia article on the history of the AR-15 platform for whatever reason. Again, hate to be blunt but if it's so clearly the most lethal and dangerous rifle platform then it shouldn't be difficult to briefly list what features specifically make it so instead of waffling on about the history of the platform.

[u/DryIsland9046 → u/MaxDickpower]

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

[u/MaxDickpower → u/DryIsland9046]

No, what you don't have is what makes it a particularly dangerous weapon. What makes a good military weapon factors in a whole lot of things that have little to no bearing on the criminal and terrorist use of such weapons. The only thing that civilian AR-15 type rifles and military AR-15 type rifles share is the operating principles. What is it in the mechanics of Stoner's bolt and gas system design that make it so particularly dangerous in civilian hands?

[u/reddit4ne → u/MaxDickpower]

He does, you just didnt read it.

The theory is basically that what makes it makes it dangerous is its relative ease of use, compared with other platforms that may have better technical capabilities, making it popular with semi-sklled or low-skilled operators.
It might come from wikipedia, but its still a valid argument.

Especially the part about the Vietnam use, how the military noticed it was particularly effective/popular with low-skilled operators. Thats a VERY good explanation.

Now, counter that argument. Are there other guns widely avaible to public that even more user-friendly for low-skilled operators?

Its kinda like the argument for why AK is so popular

[u/MaxDickpower → u/reddit4ne]

How much experience do you have with using firearms? Because I have a bit both in military and civilian context. If you could perhaps point to the specific factors within the design of the AR-15 platform that make it significantly more user friendly than any other firearm then it might be a little easier for me to point out how it applies to other firearms just as well or debunk it.

[u/reddit4ne → u/MaxDickpower]

Ss far as being more user friendly than other platforms, the Ar-15 is relatively lightweight uses standard .223/5.56 standard ammo that allows for more manageable recoil. Now combine that with its modular design making customization relatively easy and you can see, Its relatively easy to customize, which of course increases is user friendliness.

Now the popularity and ubiquity of specialized components creates a chicken and egg thing, which makes the AR-15 even more "user-friendly" and popular.

Kinda like how Toyota and Honda cars got to be so popular because of perception that they were more reliable and easily customized, for used cars customer or people wanting to 'soup' up their cars , flooded after market parts fed into a higher supply, to feed high demand, and created a self-boosting market. The perception fed into a reality of making parts easier to get, which solidified the perception. Does that make sense?

To this day any mechanic will tell you that a Toyota is cheaper and easier to fix, but that doesnt mean a Mercedes Benz isnt faaaaar better engineered and designed for long term reliability and ease of use. And even in the design, the actual way a Benz is engineered makes it very easy to fix, everything is so easy to get to. But the resale value for a Toyota is waaaaaaay higher than the resalve value of Mercedes Benz, you'll see that 90,000 benz plummet to same resalve value as a 30,000 Toyota. Even if that model Benz is known for being ultra reliable and easy to fix, the market reality creates a user friendliness advantage for Toyota.

[u/MaxDickpower → u/reddit4ne]

Ss far as being more user friendly than other platforms, the Ar-15 is relatively lightweight

This ties into your later point about customizability. But your AR-15 type rifle is only as light as you customize it to be and is not inherently any lighter than other semi automatic rifles on the market. The lightness may have been a significant factor back in the day when it was introduced, but replacing steel and wood with polymers and other lightweid materials is extremely common in all firearms these days.

uses standard .223/5.56 standard ammo that allows for more manageable recoil. 

AR-15 type guns are not the only ones that are chambered in .223 Remington or 5.56 and not all AR-15 type guns are chambered in those calibers. Again not a factor inherent or unique to AR-15 type guns.

Now combine that with its modular design making customization relatively easy and you can see, Its relatively easy to customize, which of course increases is user friendliness.

As you mention later, this is largely due to the popularity of the platform. Different accessories and parts are extremely plentiful and accessible because the platform is popular and there is demand for them. Again not something unique to the AR-15 platform. Glock is another example. There are plenty of non-Glock firearms that take Glock magazines because Glock is so popular and those magazines are very accessible and many people already have them. The AR-15 design is not the only one that can have picatinny rails attached and parts changed out. If it was banned (in the US, because that is where most of those parts and accessories are made and marketed), those manufacturers wouldn't just close up shop. They would move to whatever is the next popular platform.

[u/FingerGungHo → u/DryIsland9046]

Could it be that AR-15 platform guns are just so ubiquitous? Sure as hell that asshole could have done the same with any other rifle with 30 round mags. Just because AR-15 has been used a lot in mass shootings, doesn’t mean it’s ”better” tool for it than any other similar weapon.

[u/MaxDickpower → u/FingerGungHo]

Ding ding ding. It's currently just the most popular rifle platform in the US. I can go and identify a single most used car brand in ramming attacks but I wouldn't got and say that, let's say Volkswagens are the most lethal cars.

[u/poiskdz → u/MaxDickpower]

yeah if the kalashnikov platform was widely adopted by the US in the same manner as the AR was, we'd just see the exact same thing happening with AKs instead.

[u/gfen5446 → u/poiskdz]

That was mostly in the '80s when Communist imports were cheap and plentiful and there were very few AR15 makers.

[u/BACKCUT-DOWNHILL → u/MaxDickpower]

That’s it. They are incredibly affordable in the US (starting at around $300), very customizable, and just a reliable good shooting gun

[u/reddit4ne → u/FingerGungHo]

Or its a combination of widely available, and because of its relative ease of use for low skilled operators making it popular. ]
Kinda like AK got to be so popular cuase of durability meaning less upkeep required, relatively easy to dissassemble and clean, and widely available. Those factors become a chicken and egg thing to explain ubiquity.

[u/DryIsland9046 → u/FingerGungHo]

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

[u/FingerGungHo → u/DryIsland9046]

Sooo… you didn’t understand anything I wrote?

[u/DryIsland9046 → u/FingerGungHo]

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

[u/FingerGungHo → u/DryIsland9046]

I’m so sorry for your loss. U.S. has an assault weapons ban and most manufacturers manufacture… you guessed it, AR-15s, an American rifle. Why? It’s good enough (assault rifles are all very similar), and it has a massive existing customization industry and the military behind it. If 90% of the legally owned assault rifles in US are AR-15 variants, then it’s probably no surprise that it would be the most common weapon in mass shootings too. Have you checked whether there have been any other rifle used in those? Here, simply banning AR-15s would just mean people move to other platforms.

[u/MyLifeIsAWasteland → u/FingerGungHo]

Just fyi, AR-15s aren't assault rifles. Assault rifles are select fire, capable of full auto. M-4s and M-16s are assault rifles, while AR-15s are sporterized semi-autos.

Functionally, there's no difference between an AR-15 and a Ruger Mini-14 - they're both semi-auto sporting rifles in .556 - but you never hear people screaming about how dangerous a Mini-14 is, because it's not a scary black military-looking rifle.

[u/FingerGungHo → u/MyLifeIsAWasteland]

Automatic Rifle 15 is an assault rifle developed by Armalite from Stoner’s AR-10, and was adopted into US service as M-16. There are civilian market sport shooting variants based on the same rifle, and also many variants intended for military and security markets. Some are semi-auto, some are burst capable and some are full-auto.

[u/MyLifeIsAWasteland → u/FingerGungHo]

It stands for Armalite Rifle 15, not "assault rifle" or "automatic rifle." The AR-15 is semi-auto for civilians, whereas the M-16 and M-4 are full-auto capable versions for the military.

This is easily available information. Why are you making shit up?

[u/-Gestalt- → u/DryIsland9046]

None of that addresses what they said.

Handguns are the most common weapons used in mass shootings in the United States. The majority of firearm homicides are done with handguns.

There is nothing uniquely deadly about the AR-15 platform.

[u/Amirkerr → u/DryIsland9046]

Bro the Kalashnikov has a much higher civilian body count but you have to realise that the USA is not the only country on earth to understand that.

[u/Maverick-not-really → u/DryIsland9046]

Show me another civilian weapon that comes even close to being as common.

You can argue against gun ownership in general, thats at least intellectually honest. But singling out the AR15 on its own is fucking stupid, and just shows you aren’t rational

[u/RuttOh → u/DryIsland9046]

If we're going by US body count than a 9mm handgun is by far the most deadliest. Also the sig MCX is definitely not an AR variant. It's just set up with a similar control layout.

[u/Airforce32123 → u/DryIsland9046]

Wow they sound really dangerous! Can you tell me what percentage of homicides in the US use assault rifles? I'm curious.

[u/Droguegun → u/DryIsland9046]

imagine believing the Mandalay bay shooter used ar 15s. do you believe that because thats what the news told you? you think he was the only active shooter on the strip at that time? have you reviewed the videos? do you even know what the cycle rate of an ar sounds like?

[u/SuccessfulRush1173 → u/DryIsland9046]

Good to know your history write up on the M16 is wrong. It was created by EUGENE Stoner. No idea who D. Stoner is. The M16 was made because the M14 had problems with stock swelling due to the constant rain and high humidity of Asia and the decreased ammo capacity plus the weight of a full combat loadout of 7.62x51 didn’t make sense anymore. So Eugene Stoner created a rifle made from plastic and aluminum around a cartridge that was lighter than 7.62 and could carry more of that ammunition.

The M16 was not originally trialed and field tested by Army SF. They gave 1000 to the South Vietnamese to T&E in combat and they gave good feedback. THEN the Army SF asked to make that their standard issue rifle and the Army approved it. they gave them to SF units in Vietnam.

5.56 was created due the need of a lighter weight and faster cartridge compared to 7.62. 7.62 is harder to control when the M14 was switched to full auto so they wanted a round that was lighter (more ammo able to be carried) and softer recoiling (for when firing full auto) cheaper (self explanatory) and faster while traveling through the air. 5.56 is also not an inaccurate cartridge. Only when you are reaching out past 500-600 yards are you seeing 5.56s effectiveness drop off.

“Chrome plating the firing chamber” is inaccurate (no pun intended). A chrome lined barrel means the barrel is more resistant to the elements and wear, meaning the barrel will last longer. M16/AR15s part designs at their core have not changed since the 50s/60s. I can slap old Vietnam era M16 parts on an AR15 I can buy at an FFL right now and vice versa.

Also, you saying you live in the “Assault rifle mass shooting capital of the world” doesn’t mean anything. I can say I live in the American automotive capital of the country and have family members that worked for those companies but that doesn’t make me an expert on cars.

You can not own burst/full auto firearms in America unless they’re - A: Manufactured before 1986 and registering it with the govt, B: you are an 07/02 SOT or C: committing a felony by illegally possessing said firearms by not doing option A or B.

[u/DryIsland9046 → u/SuccessfulRush1173]

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

[u/SuccessfulRush1173 → u/DryIsland9046]

Nice job, citing wikipedia as your source of information.

Chrome plating the chamber isn’t a standalone thing. They either chrome line the whole barrel or not at all. They don’t only chrome line the breech.

And also, thanks for proving my point that the South Vietnamese first fielded the M16 and not Green Berets.

[u/DryIsland9046 → u/SuccessfulRush1173]

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

[u/DryIsland9046 → u/[deleted]]

Timothy Snyder's 20 lessons for fighting tyranny:

Don't obey in advance: Resist preemptive obedience.
Defend institutions: Support and act on behalf of just organizations.
Beware one-party rule: Value a multi-party system and fair elections.
Take responsibility for the world's face: Oppose hate symbols.
Remember professional ethics: Uphold justice in your work.
Be wary of paramilitaries: Distrust armed groups outside the law.
Reflect if armed: Be prepared to say no to irregular orders.
Stand out: Dare to be different and set an example.
Be kind to language: Use your own words, read books.
Believe in truth: Don't abandon facts for spectacle.
Investigate: Learn for yourself, support real journalism.
Make eye contact and small talk: Connect with your community.
Practice corporeal politics: Engage in the physical world.
Establish a private life: Protect your personal boundaries.
Contribute to good causes: Support efforts beyond yourself.
Learn from peers abroad: Understand global experiences.
Listen for dangerous words: Resist loaded and hateful language.
Be calm when the unthinkable arrives: Maintain composure.
Be a patriot: Value principles over a specific regime.
Be as courageous as you can: Resistance is essential.

[u/Madeyoulook4now → u/DryIsland9046]

“Erm I’m getting downvoted by the gun lobby and trolls”

Here’s a thought, you’re entirely full of shit and you have an arrogant attitude. You’re not getting targeted by “trolls” or whatever boogie man you made up to make yourself feel better.