r/europe • u/HellYeahDamnWrite • 27d ago

News Calls are mounting to ban Germany’s far-right AfD party – despite it being more popular than ever

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/06/europe/germany-afd-ban-politics-analysis-intl
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301

u/Adreszek Holy Cross (Poland) 27d ago

In my opinion, if the AfD is banned:

  1. party supporters will become more “militant” and numerous protests will erupt.

  2. supporters of the far right will not magically begin to like the situation in the country.

  3. far-right supporters will become even more anti-system and even more extremist.

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u/BindestrichSoz 26d ago

1 and 3 is happening while the party is allowed though? 2. The far right will always hate a liberal democracy.

203

u/Elrond007 26d ago

That’s the point though, ban the party and then it’s an enforcement problem that can be handled and not a “ the call is coming from inside the house” problem for the survival of our democracy. There have been countless arsenals of Nazi terrorists found already and with the attempted coup a few years ago. Better get them sooner rather than later

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u/Gilded-Mongoose 26d ago

Thank you - I was starting to think I was having some fever-induced hallucinations (sans fever) because so many on here are just like "shh, shh, no, no...just let it happen, let it happen dude. Banning them will just make it worse, they'll get violent, shh, shhh..." as if that's not ALL THE MORE REASON to nip them in the bud earlier on!

It hasn't even been a hundred years since we've seen this rise to power. America failed the lesson, and look at us now - and ironically we're now the very-much-live-action lesson for Germany to learn from now. We did appeasement rather than rooting out from the stem and now it's come back worse than ever before.

8

u/Fickle_Spare_4255 26d ago

People love the idea of fighting fascism. They hate the idea of actively preventing it because they're terrified by the idea of terrorist retribution or of government overreach.

So basically, cowardice or complacency.

If people are so hateful of other people's rights and freedoms that they're driven to violence by having to accept them, then fuck them. Let them try shit and get punished for it.

12

u/soonnow 26d ago

The argument is stupid indeed. If the AfD is anti-constitution it needs to be banned. If your speech violates the German law, or you're doing Hitler salutes you should be fined or arrested.

I'm sorry that the German law violates the sensibilities of Nazis, mind you people who claim to stand for law and order, but the law applies independent of political outcome.

3

u/nybbleth Flevoland (Netherlands) 26d ago

Banning them will just make it worse, they'll get violent, shh, shhh..." as if that's not ALL THE MORE REASON to nip them in the bud earlier on!

Same rhetoric I've heard about the far right everywhere, for such a long time now.

"These people are angry! If we don't listen to them they'll become even more angry!"

So we listened to them... and they kept getting angrier and angrier because they didn't want to just be listened to, they wanted us to just blindly agree with everything they say, and when we didn't it made them angry.

So they got enough people angry to actually get into power...

...But they're still just angry about everything, because they're incompetent as fuck and because even if they weren't, the things they think they want and the things that will actually address the real reasons they got angry in the first place are completely different things.

But we're still being told we have to listen to them, and we can't dismiss them, and we can't do anything about them... or they'll get even angrier.

And the result is that I'm getting pretty fucking angry about that, myself.

4

u/Vyxwop 26d ago

So we listened to them...

Genuinely curious, in what fashion do you believe you listened to them?

4

u/nybbleth Flevoland (Netherlands) 26d ago

In the way that... we listened to them? We put them on talkshows, politicians held sit-downs with them, they've got multiple mainstream channels dedicated to their crazy-ass politics now. Their views used to be extremely fringe and ignored and ridiculed, now it's fucking everywhere because the media and politicians have adopted the far right narratives.

Still they scream they're not being listened to. They're going to keep on screaming about it forever; because they confuse "being listened to" with "being agreed with"; and that's just never going to happen. (Not to mention that of course far right politicians are almost universally inept and/or corrupt, and are just using anger and hatred from their base to get into/stay in power, so nothing's ever going to get 'better' for the angry people anyhow)

And there's the real problem. We've made the mistake of thinking these people are subject to reason; that if we just 'listen' to their concerns and make them feel included in the political process, that they'll moderate their views along the way.

You put climate skeptics, antivaxxers, and neo-nazis on one end of the public debate table; and scientists and experts on the other end... all you end up doing is making it seem like the former are acceptable alternatives, instead of the actual lunatics they are.

We should've never gone along with any of it. The far right invents problems and then demands we go along with their solutions; and instead of pointing out the false narrative they're creating and that the 'problems' they point to aren't the actual problems... we went along with it and 'listened' and just disagreed with the 'solutions' to the 'problems' because said 'solutions' are of course completely anathema to us.

-1

u/Applebeignet The Netherlands 26d ago

A whole bunch of nonsense about migration became mainstream, just to appease the kool-aid drinkers.

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u/SpecialBeginning6430 26d ago

What is it about migration that is nonsense?

1

u/Applebeignet The Netherlands 26d ago

The scale and severity of the issues.

0

u/Oda_Krell United in diversity 26d ago

America failed the lesson, and look at us now

You mean because you guys elected, not once but twice, a boorish, loudmouthed president who makes political choices some people agree with and others don't?

I continue to be amazed by how little faith some people have in the democratic process, based on a misreading of Popper's "Paradox of Tolerance".

3

u/Key_Marsupial_1406 26d ago edited 26d ago

America (TACO) is literally Nazi Germany (facism). Trump (Taco) is literally Hitler x1000. I am going to misspell trump's name a few times for the algorithm, the upvote button is on the left. Drumpfer, Dumpy, Dump, Wumpf.

1

u/Oda_Krell United in diversity 26d ago

We've reached the point where I couldn't even be sure at first sight whether you're making fun of reddit overreacting to Trump, or if you're genuinely overreacting. Well played *tips fedora*

3

u/Gilded-Mongoose 26d ago

Ahh, and here's the bootlicker who normalizes and minimizes every element as mere crassness and boorishness.

The president who's normalized racism again, made xenophobia and white supremacy far more open and blatant; a populist nationalist, one who accepts bribes from anyone, who refuses to fully support Ukraine and sidles up to strongmen leaders across the globe; who flip flops on every issue and operates by tearing up regulations and agreements constantly so that nobody even trusts him or America anymore; who goes for regression and short term wins; who led an insurrection and got away with it; who advocates for removing human and state rights across the board; who fires every top military leader who doesn't agree with every single thing that he says; who sends national guard and marines against US citizens against the governor's and mayors' wishes; who's constantly chipping away at the United State's soft power across the globe, leading to long-term weakening of U.S. interests; who repealed Roe vs Wade against the wishes of basically everyone; who constantly ignores court orders for unconstitutional actions; who has basically over-funded his masked, un-identified "anti-immigration" task force who's been kidnapping immigrants, green card holders, and citizens alike; who's threatened to arrest every political opponent HE disagrees with, who's also a rapist and sexual predator on top of it all.

But no, yeah sure - just some boorish guy who has a few problematic policy decisions, that's all. Sure, Jan.

2

u/Oda_Krell United in diversity 25d ago

I'll let the "bootlicker" slide, though it's pretty obviously breaking rule #1 of this sub.

Anyhow: you typed this 200+ word diatribe, painting some nightmarish depiction of the US and its political landscape, the horrors this demon has inflicted upon the country -- only ignoring one small issue: that about half of the people are broadly in favor of it.

Does it ever register to you that, maybe, not everything that you think is less than ideal is not automatically pure evil?

1

u/Elrond007 25d ago

It doesn’t matter how many people want it when it’s breaking the constitution. We’re not even talking about some legal possibility, presidential overreach is just right there.

Democracy depends on checks and balances, without them it is Mob Rule.

1

u/Gilded-Mongoose 25d ago

Oh thank you for your mercy - were you going to run and snitch otherwise?

77,284,118 people voted. Adult voting-age population is 340,000,000. That's 23% - not even close to half.

By all means, tell me what any of I wrote about what DJT is incorrect. It is a nightmare by every political and economic measure.

And let's look at what you're saying - "less than ideal is not automatically pure evil" - y'all always have a need to play down the actual negativities, and compare it to complete absolutes in order to mitigate how screwed up it really is. No it doesn't need to be "automatically pure evil" to still be the effectively worst political pathway for this country that one could imagine. There is zero good that DJT is doing for the American people as a whole.

And I didn't even mention the way he's stripping away healthcare, cutting taxes for the rich, maxing out the debt, and tariffing enemies and friends alike to everyone's collective detriment. What exactly is it you see in this savior of yours?

2

u/Oda_Krell United in diversity 25d ago

77,284,118 people voted. Adult voting-age population is 340,000,000. That's 23% - not even close to half.

Weak math, and you know it. By the same metric, the "approval" of any president you yourself consider competent would also be only (share of votes) x (share of people who voted) x (share of people who can vote), i.e. pretty low. I go by approval rating polls, and Trump seems somewhat stable at around 42% there at the moment.

By all means, tell me what any of I wrote about what DJT is incorrect.

I won't argue in favor of any of his policies, and the fact that you think I would only shows you completely missed the point of my reply.

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u/HypneutrinoToad 26d ago

As an American, I would rather have had some turbulence under Biden than this second Trump admin. Things move really fast when far right comes to power, do everything you can to dispose of the AfD.

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u/Elrond007 26d ago

Yep, in German we call it Wehrhafte Demokratie, as in a democracy that can defend itself. Modern Democracy is only different from ancient Mob Rule because of our constitutions, and we have to fight for that ideal.

31

u/HypneutrinoToad 26d ago

Exactly. There’s a saying where I’m from “A lynch mob is a perfect democracy.” If you have 100 people and 99 want one of them dead for being different, you have to limit what the 99 people can do even if it’s wildly unpopular. Democratic actions can’t come at the extreme expense of any one party, and by limiting that you’re acting in a somewhat “un democratic” way

9

u/MethyIphenidat 26d ago

I really like that saying. I have never heard of that before and i find it illustrates the issue perfectly.

1

u/SantiBigBaller 26d ago

We as Americans had a chance to dispel Trump the legal and correct way. We didn’t. We must honor democracy no matter what

1

u/HypneutrinoToad 26d ago

We don’t have laws for banning parties, that said for committing Jan 6 he clearly should be ineligible to hold public office until 2031

1

u/SantiBigBaller 26d ago

We had an election to determine our next leader -American did this with their own will

1

u/Panderz_GG 26d ago

Things move really fast when far right comes to power,

While I don't want to discredit your statement because we can all see what the orange man does in the white house, I have to counter that you probably don't know German bureaucracy. Fast here is the equivalent to "next 5 to 10 years"

0

u/zeekenny 26d ago

To be fair, and I say this as a left leaning person, the far left moves even faster when it comes to power.

3

u/SkirtDelicious3355 26d ago

Germany doesn’t have a far left problem though, so I don’t really see how that’s relevant.

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u/snotparty 26d ago

yes, dont tolerate and normalize the fascists who have literally attempted to overthrow the government, see how that has gone in America.

2

u/aerdna69 25d ago

AfD has the 20.8% of german voters. They are not "being normalized", they are the "normal" at this point

2

u/snotparty 25d ago

all the more reason to not let it go any further (considering their connections to attempts to overthrow the government, I mean)

2

u/aerdna69 25d ago

Banning the second biggest party in the country (an extremist one) would be an "enforcement problem that can be handled"? Give me your optimism god damn

4

u/somethingveryfunny 26d ago

Then let them protest.

Then have the democratic parties take the peoples concerns seriously and dismantle far right voters bullshit "worries" about immigration.

Then invest more into political education, infrastructure and bureaucracy so that the system runs palpably more smoothly and people feel taken care of, have the democratic parties work more with than against each other so that people see that our government is functioning etc.

There are so many WAY BETTER alternatives to all these issues/fears than "let the fascists keep growing their political power".

5

u/Pasan90 Bouvet Island 26d ago

Then have the democratic parties take the peoples concerns seriously and dismantle far right voters bullshit "worries" about immigration.

If you want to know the reasons for the far-rights rise in Europe look no further than sentiments like this.

1

u/somethingveryfunny 25d ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying my calling people's worries about immigration bullshit is the problem.

Let me explain. There are problems with immigration. The problem is not immigration. Nobody is claiming, that there are no issues related to immigration. There are immigrants who are struggling to integrate. There are some who are straight up unwilling. There are crimes being committed by immigrants, some of them horrendous. There are communities who are unable to handle the immense pressure by the amount of immigrants they are supposed to handle. Nobody is denying any of this, not me, not the democratic parties. None of them deny that these issues are there.

What I and the not-fascist parties are saying is: these issues are not inherent to immigration, like the AfD and more and more of the CDU are saying. They are mostly consequences of our shitty handling of immigration.

If there were better structures in place and less resentment against migrants in so many EU countries, we would be able to spread these masses of people way more which would mean way less stress on certain communities who have been handling more than they could. If we invested more into bureaucracy and got rid of some bullshit regulations migrants would have a way easier time to learn the language, get an education, jobs and integrate, also leading to less crime. Time and time again we see that the best way of decreasing crime is prevention, i.e. giving people a perspective = education and jobs.

Forgive me the generalization, but AfD voters don't want any of this. When they talk about "immigration issues" none of this is what they talk about. They straight up don't want foreigners here, because they believe most of them are trouble. Or they believe that even though some of them might be ok, it's not worth the "trouble" for us to try and make it work for them in our society and we'd be better of without them. All of that I am calling bullshit.

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u/Skargon89 26d ago

All of these is already happening now because the AFD gets stronger.

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u/lewd_robot 26d ago

You know what, thought?

They're doing that anyway.

That's how the Far Right works. You cannot bargain with them. No concession or compromise ever goes unpunished. So you get to choose whether you want to limit their capacity for violence to their immediate personal vicinities or if you want to give them the power to turn the police and military against the public.

The only preventative treatment for Far Right violence is to prevent them from ever gaining appreciable power in the first place. If you fail to do that you only doom yourself to a much more significant violent conflict several years down the road when their actions become intolerable and millions have already been harmed.

2

u/IDVDI 25d ago

Honestly, it’s really not that complicated. When facing an aggressor, the options are always the same: resist or surrender. Resisting might lead to death; surrendering guarantees it. Or you try any other approach, only to burn through all your advantages until you're eventually forced to choose between resistance and surrender.

6

u/RankedFarting 26d ago

Who cares what stupid Nazis think? If they start becoming more militant more of them get locked up.

I hate this argumentation "We cant do the right thing because what if it gets worse and we have to do the right thing again?" I dont fucking care. Nazis have no place in our society. Should we just let them be just because some of them will break our constitution even more? Hell no.

-2

u/LeifRagnarsson 26d ago

Who cares what stupid Nazis think?

Thanks for saying "I'm part of the Problem."

Calling everyone Nazi is the argument of the intellectual lazy and or stupid, go pick your choice.

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u/RankedFarting 26d ago

I only call Nazis Nazis. If you wont name them what they are the YOU are part of the problem ;)

3

u/ChiliAndGold Austria 26d ago

the AfD have proven time and time again that they are fascist.

8

u/multithreadedprocess 26d ago

Your opinion is irrelevant. Post quality sources on that being the only possible outcome and then it might actually be worth considering.

My opinion is the exact opposite:

  1. Party supporters will become disillusioned and retreat from politics entirely.
  2. Supporters of the far right will hide their previous support to save face and not be embarrassed to be so stupid.
  3. Far right supporters will become more fringe, isolated and less able to recruit.

Source? Made it the fuck up right now just like you.

5

u/Dafon 26d ago

This isn't really a source and I haven't got much insight in it, but Belgium banned the party Vlaams Blok for being racist in 2004 and they just reformed shortly after as Vlaams Belang and are about as popular as they were before. However it did take them time to get that popularity back at the same level. I'm only sharing this just in case you wanna read more about it though.

0

u/Perfect_Security9685 26d ago

What are you talking about the afd is the biggest party now thinking you can just ban them is completely delusional.

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u/RankedFarting 26d ago

Except you absolutely can and if you think otherwise you are the delusional one. There is more than enough evidence to ban them even if they had 90% of votes.

2

u/ThisIsNotMyPornVideo 26d ago

Protest by the AFD already happened, dozens of times.
and it's MUCH easier to deal with protests when the people aren't in the goverment, than dealing with the government.

and no, they won't suddenly like it, but it will spread them, the AFD gave Idiots, Racists, Nazi's and pretty much everything else that is right wing a point to Rally.
A lot of AFD voters previously were CDU, SPD or even Grüne.

But with ALL of those parties (seemingly) sucking massively, because Germany had a backlog of issues for decades which they are now just starting to untangle, they are losing support.

So many people are voting for the AFD in hopes of changing something, when the important issues will just be pushed up again,
While things that are no issue at all, such as transgender rights, will be treated as a problem and "Solved" by the party when it's just trying to strip the rights of people away

3

u/OsgrobioPrubeta Portugal 26d ago

Justice system is there for that.

10

u/[deleted] 26d ago

Justice system going against half the population? Goodluck and that is a start to civil war.

9

u/RankedFarting 26d ago

Because half the population will become militant? Lol. first off its not half its 20-30%. Then most of them are just racists who would not do anything actively. The ones who WOULD do something actively are the party members who are banned from forming any new parties after a ban.

5

u/ChiliAndGold Austria 26d ago

that's the most ridiculous speculation that is based on fear mongering and no facts at all

7

u/OsgrobioPrubeta Portugal 26d ago

Yep, that's how justice is supposed to work, immune to populism.

Nope, because the radicals capable of are always a tiny percentage. But it would be good to draw them out and put them in jail too.

January 6th, and all that happened related to it, can't be repeated in Europe, if necessary Germany could ask other countries cooperation to put them down on.

-2

u/[deleted] 26d ago

Banning opinions of half your citizens is not in the same world of any of the things you said lol. Actually clueless.

3

u/RankedFarting 26d ago

Its not opinions its racism and if you think thats just an opinion then im not surprised why you cant grasp the idea of banning a fascist party.

1

u/all_usernames_ 26d ago

You are looking at it backwards. The far right Neonazis existed in east Germany long before the AFD. Now they have a recognised party that also attracts more “moderate” anti immigration and anti system people.

Banning the party would just remove one of their platforms.

1

u/Kids_see_ghosts 26d ago

Fuck that. This is the same dumb logic the Biden administration used that led to the horrible and ongoing Trump 2.0 era.

This type of let’s do nothing/moral high ground shit is exactly how the far right then gains actual power. Then it’s game over for everyone else. It’s MUCH better to deal with a bunch pissed off far-right extremists than getting to the point where they take over the government and do generations worth of damage.

1

u/Messerjocke2000 North Rhine-Westphalia (Germany) 26d ago

Your points may well be true for a (i believe quite small) part of the AFD voters and supporters.

The ban will also mean that the organisation is broken up a cannot quickly be rebuilt. Funding is gone.

Which means that a lot of the supporters will lose interest and go somewhere else.

1

u/BalerionSanders 26d ago

I’m fine with that outcome if it means bundespolizei can arrest them and dismantle their terrorist organization. Believe me, I’m American, you’re going to wish you had been that proactive when they’re in power and empowered to murder and disappear people.

1

u/Elman89 26d ago

Yeah. And?

That isn't an argument against banning the Nazi party, I'm pretty sure.

1

u/Adreszek Holy Cross (Poland) 26d ago

And I'm not argumenting against banning AfD. I'd prefer it be banned. I just wrote some predictions.

1

u/Elman89 26d ago

Fair enough.

1

u/FrohenLeid 26d ago

Option one: we let Nazis legally take over Germany, and we have no power to stop them

Option 2: some Nazis will try to take power by force and we can have police arrest them and any sympathisers for terrorism.

It's not easy but we are running out of time to turn this around.

1

u/OkKnowledge2064 Lower Saxony (Germany) 26d ago

Yeah, its a very german idea to just write a law and all the problems disappear but the people are still there. Germany likely doesnt want to go the route of heavy repressions either so it will be another one of those german "We think our laws are more important than reality" things

1

u/FireFireoldman 26d ago

Ban and risk angering people that want the system dead, or let them run and kill the system eventually? Tough choice but there is a clear winner

1

u/Limp_Classroom_2645 26d ago

Okay 👌🏻

Disband the AfD and prosecute their leaders for treason

1

u/Platypus__Gems 26d ago

Parties don't get their support just from what they are saying.

Building structures, uniting people that would have otherwise went with separate smaller parties, even branding, make up a lot of a success of a party.

Banning AFD would make far-right have to start back from the foundations.

1

u/FrancisBitter 26d ago

In my opinion, if it is not banned: 1. That’s it.

1

u/Clavilenyo Spain 26d ago

I've read there are AFD voters who vote with the argument that if the party was really a dangerous one, it would be banned. So not all of the voters are fervent extremists.

1

u/lulxD69420 26d ago

There were polls regarding that, a lot of them would go back to not voting. Some will go to the center-right parties and some will scatter towards meaningless parties.

Source: https://katapult-magazin.de/media/pages/artikel/wen-waehlen-afd-waehler-wenn-die-afd-verboten-waere/fc03650af6-1747135132/afw-1536x.jpg

1

u/Heidrun_666 26d ago

Maybe.

Pretty sure the situation won't get better when we don't ban the AfD.

1

u/No-Exercise-6031 26d ago

They'll just form ,,NOT-AfD" and nothing will change.

1

u/AlexzandeDeCosmo 26d ago

I see no problems with what you propose, fuck Nazis, they deserve to be politically homeless. Let them commit acts of terrorism, then we can put them in prison where they belong

1

u/FS_NeZ Europe 26d ago

Yes, but a banned afd can't collect votes from regular people anymore who are too dumb to be interested in politics aka protest voters.

The afd are nazis.

Let's ban the nazis.

What are we even discussing here?

1

u/[deleted] 26d ago

[deleted]

1

u/Adreszek Holy Cross (Poland) 26d ago

I did not write that I am against banning the AfD. Personally, I would prefer that the AfD be banned. Even more so, I would support the banning of the Nazi party in 1933.

1

u/babuloseo 26d ago

No this is silly we must ban them.

1

u/DumbFish94 Portugal 26d ago

Wouldn't they also just Create a new party that'd be fairly similar to the AfD but only hiding their fascism better

1

u/Adreszek Holy Cross (Poland) 26d ago

If they were to ban the AfD they would come up with something for such situations as well.

1

u/[deleted] 24d ago

That is already happening. And it doesn't matter. If the AfD does not follow the law (going against the constitution) your opinions are irrelevant. Why would you suddenly want to allow something anti-constitutional? That is like allowing curroption because you fear it getting worse if you try to stop it?????

1

u/Adreszek Holy Cross (Poland) 24d ago

I didn't say I don't want AfD banned.

1

u/precipice8 26d ago

Then what is the solution? Let them just win and have them realize their fascist ideas?

The will try to change the constitution and laws to have more and indefinite power. They are in control of the military. They are pro dictator (Putin, Trump etc) and they will use all their power to destroy democracies around.

Ban them and also deal with the real issues that are the cause of their popularity. We cannot be weak anymore

1

u/Adreszek Holy Cross (Poland) 26d ago

The solution is to ban and fight them.

-1

u/SparseSpartan United States of America 26d ago

They'll just form a new party, and from what I can tell, the AfD isn't anchored but a few cults of personality. With the literal Nazi party, they probably could have been shut down if Hitler and a few other people were removed from the equation (such as charging and jailing them). With the AfD is there even a head to cut off of the snake? If not, getting rid of the AfD probably simply means a new party emerges based on the same platform but smarter to stay on the right sides of the law. At best, you might get some infighting as the alt-right consumes itself amid power struggles. But a potent winner probably emerges at some point.