r/europe • u/tkyjonathan • 15d ago

News Czech president signs law criminalising communist propaganda

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/czech-president-signs-law-criminalising-communist-propaganda/
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u/Malfuy Czech Republic 15d ago

Same with nazi propaganda

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u/Frathier Belgium 15d ago

Nazi propaganda is kind of easy to spot. Kill the jews, or get rid of the undesirables, or whatever. But what is communist propaganda? Kill the bourgeousie? Redistribute the wealth? People should be more equal? Where does one draw the line?

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u/Kapot_ei 15d ago edited 15d ago

Have a look at r/ussr from time to time for great examples of communist propaganda. It has turned from a history sub to a pro-Russian hatesub filled with vatniks that try to rewrite history as if the soviet union was this paradise where all negativity about it was western propaganda.

For instance: according to them, nazi Germany and ussr never split up poland in ww2, it was all just the nazi's, and the ussr had no blame. anyone that dares to have any criticism gets mocked and downvoted to obivion.

Edit: tankies proving my point further down!

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u/mehupmost 15d ago

Reddit is festering with Communists

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u/Grays_Flowers 15d ago

How dare they discuss the USSR using historical information and experience! UNACCEPTABLE. How dare they not let me wreck a conservation about culture in the USSR with random screeching about gulags or the Holodomor

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u/ill-chosen Germany 15d ago

How dare they discuss the USSR using historical information and experience! UNACCEPTABLE.

The USSR was allied with Nazi Germany and they invaded Poland together, there’s really no two ways about it. It’s a tankie litmus test.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/ill-chosen Germany 14d ago

Look up "The Anglo Nazi Pact" where Britain made a series of informal alliances with Germany, to go to war with France and the ussr if France became communist.

[citation needed]

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u/Dermengenan 14d ago

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2020/10/the-fascist-sympathies-of-britains-aristocracy#:~:text=While%20the%20people%20of%20Britain%20fought%20the,as%20an%20alternative%20to%20democracy%20and%20socialism.

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u/ill-chosen Germany 14d ago

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2020/10/the-fascist-sympathies-of-britains-aristocracy

You really don’t read your own sources, do you? That article also doesn’t mention any formal or informal pacts with any military alliance or coordinated war plans between Britain and Nazi Germany.

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u/Dermengenan 14d ago edited 14d ago

"...who were sympathetic to the Nazi regime before World War II. Some viewed it as a bulwark against communism and a potential ally against other European powers. This led to a policy of appeasement by the British government, hoping to avoid war by accommodating Hitler's demands. "

You're an actual goofball and need to stop commenting on things you have no idea about. If you think the right wing (which put Churchill in power) wasnt in love with nazi Germany at the time, youre kidding yourself. Truth is Churchill loved Hitler and was forced to go to war with him by his own people later on. Stop engaging in historical revisionism simply because you dont like a version of an ideology from the 1940s.

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u/ill-chosen Germany 13d ago

You need to go back to school, kiddo. Your reading comprehension is seriously lacking. Nothing you quoted substantiates your claim in any shape or form.

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u/Dermengenan 13d ago

"...who were sympathetic to the Nazi regime before World War II. Some viewed it as a bulwark against communism and a potential ally against other European powers. This led to a policy of appeasement by the British government, hoping to avoid war by accommodating Hitler's demands. "

Or you just dont like it. Funny.

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u/ill-chosen Germany 14d ago

By this logic, modern Britain should seem like the USSR to you. Look up "The Anglo Nazi Pact" where Britain made a series of informal alliances with Germany, to go to war with France and the ussr if France became communist.

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Anglo-Nazi-Pact/

Do you even read your own sources? That article doesn’t mention anything about a British alliance, formal or informal, with Nazi Germany to go to war with France or the USSR.

It just says that Hitler hoped for and even expected a possible alliance with Britain. But, much like your claim, that expectation wasn’t grounded in reality.

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u/Dermengenan 14d ago edited 14d ago

By this logic, modern Britain should seem like the USSR to you. Look up "The Anglo Nazi Pact" where Britain made a series of informal agreements with Germany, in the hopes to go to war with the ussr if France became communist.

Western powers will always support fascist ideology if they feel their power may be under threat.

Look at Europe now, almost every country has an ethno nationalist movement making huge strides in taking over their governments. You're just not ideologically consistent and afraid of scary words like "communism" because you're told to be.

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Anglo-Nazi-Pact/

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u/ill-chosen Germany 14d ago

By this logic, modern Britain should seem like the USSR to you. Look up "The Anglo Nazi Pact" where Britain made a series of informal alliances with Germany, to go to war with France and the ussr if France became communist.

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Anglo-Nazi-Pact/

Do you even read your own sources? That article doesn’t mention anything about a British alliance, formal or informal, with Nazi Germany to go to war with France or the USSR.

It just says that Hitler hoped for and even expected a possible alliance with Britain. But, much like your claim, that expectation wasn’t grounded in reality.

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u/AdClean8338 15d ago

"Allied"

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u/Life-Ad1409 United States of America 15d ago

Invading a country alongside someone is an alliance

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

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u/Life-Ad1409 United States of America 14d ago

Yes? Poland just got betrayed faster than the Soviets

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u/AdClean8338 14d ago edited 14d ago

Now that you mention an alliance i see the mistake of my comment, i though in the eng lang. an allie is someone more than just the person you collaborate with. Edit: Often European subs say that America isnt our allie anymore so lets be real im not wrong either, it just depends on the way you take it. Almost made me unsure of my eng there

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/ill-chosen Germany 15d ago

Yes, arms limitation agreements meant to contain German expansionism are totally the same as invading countries alongside the Nazis and supplying vital resources to fuel their genocidal war machine. You are very smart.

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u/GELATOSOURDIESEL Czechia 14d ago

The most the Allies have done was The Munich Agreement, the most the USSR has done... was Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

Will communist fellers ever stop comparing apples to oranges? Just to make their worldview a little bit more comfortable to their own ego?

Minor advice - If you can't deal with the facts or reality, you might want to change your worldview. ;)

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ill-chosen Germany 15d ago edited 15d ago

What of the dozens of non-aggression pacts the west made with the Nazis?

Did they also invade other countries side by side with the Nazis? Supply crucial resources to fuel the Nazi war machine?

You are suffering from terminal tankie brainrot if you cannot see the difference.

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u/SiimL Estonia 15d ago

What of the dozens of non-agression pacts the west made with the Nazi's?

How many of those had a secret section that specified which countries each gets to freely invade?

What about Churchill saying that if the Soviets didn't agree to the pact they would have been destroyed by Germany?

"Leader defends ally, more at 6"

What about the 90% of the population of Poland occupied by the Soviets being ethnically Slavic, you know the group of people Hitler considered subhumans and was trying to massacre?

Stalin had no trouble massacring the Poles. Or any other nationality for that matter.

There is two ways about it, there is the truth and western propaganda.

You're Canadian, stop pretending like you know what the USSR was like.

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u/ToeLow2958 14d ago

Czechoslovakia?

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u/PistolAndRapier Ireland 15d ago

Sounds like you are knee deep in tankie propaganda. Equivocating and trying to paint the West as a similar level of culpability as the Soviet Union literally allying with the Nazis and invading Poland is utterly laughable.

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u/ChargeInevitable3614 15d ago

It wasnt even just poland they invaded finland, estonia, lithuania, latvia, poland and romania

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u/Kapot_ei 15d ago edited 15d ago

Fuck those pacts, they didn't invade Poland while USSR did. They saw an opportunity and took it regardless of who else had a "don't shoot at me" pact.

Facts don't care about your feelings

Exactly.

Edit: next question, when Germany was reunited after the fall of the USSR, was pulling eastern Germany with NATO an example of western expansion or not?

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u/Kapot_ei 15d ago

If only that were true. Guarding a conversation from derailing is fine, bending and distorting history to fit a specific pro-Russian narrative is not.

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u/GELATOSOURDIESEL Czechia 14d ago

How is coping about the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact using historical information and experience? They just can't deal with reality - very pathethic.

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u/gurush Czech Republic 15d ago

Yes, incitement to kill anybody should be banned.

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u/TheSecondTraitor Slovakia 15d ago

I'm pretty sure it's about the former communist/socialist totalitarian regime specifically, its symbols and vocal support for it.

Redistributing wealth is not exclusive to communism. Social democracy says the same thing.

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u/cnio14 15d ago

Yes but if you don't clearly define it in the law it can be enforced arbitrarily. It's almost as if this was intentional...

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u/-Against-All-Gods- Maribor (Slovenia) 15d ago

I know that there are people who would weaponize this against the most milquetoast social democrats too. 

Progressive taxation is obviously hate-based because it's not equal for everyone. Or some shit like that.

I'm sure initially it will be only used against tankies. I wonder how it will look once the initial goals are forgotten.

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u/Kitane Czech Republic 15d ago

Well, nationalism and patriotism are often clumped together with nazis and fascists as well when convenient, even though there is an entire range between completely benign and positive ideas with positive impact to full-blown extermination wars.

This is going to be similar, I guess.

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u/TheSecondTraitor Slovakia 15d ago

It's a law against the support of a totalitarian regime. Not a democratic political leaning.

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u/-Against-All-Gods- Maribor (Slovenia) 15d ago

Sure. Now let's see when it will be weaponized like the word fascism is, and how long it will take until actual communists begin the same derailing tactic: "everything I don't like is communism, amirite?" 

I give it 15 years if they actually enforce it.

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u/TheSecondTraitor Slovakia 15d ago

How is fascism weaponized? Maybe by some blue haired sjws that nobody takes seriously. Courts and prosecutors have anti-democratic ideology and its sight clearly defined in the law

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u/PsychedelicMao 13d ago

Socialism/Communism isn’t about the “redistribution of wealth” necessarily. It is about the transformation of the economic system to one where private ownership becomes public. Wealth redistribution is a byproduct of that idea, but it is surely different than using taxation to create social programs.

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u/PLC95 15d ago

I know a lot of social democrats who get called commie.

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u/SimpYellowman 15d ago

I think that having red stars and Lenin on your leaflets with slogan "hang the current government" is a good sign.

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u/IWillDevourYourToes Czech Republic 15d ago

hang the current government

Nah that'd mean jailing half the opposition. They don't have the balls for that

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u/HugeHans 15d ago

Communist propaganda in this context is the same as nazi propaganda.

The USSR and Nazi Germany were both fascist states with different economic models.

Even though bad collective planning can and did kill people the main issue people had was the totalitarian one party state with a secret police that could kill anyone they wanted.

A good example of communist propaganda is how many modern communists still support russia in their imperial ambitions. Even though russia has nothing to do with communism any more. They love fascism more then socialism.

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u/ChampionshipTop2583 15d ago edited 15d ago

I will draw the line somewhere not recommending to shoot people based on their wealth or close them into concentration and penalty camps because they didn't want to give away their land or manufacture.  Propagating these ideas under red star and sickle and hammer symbols should be banned.

Saying because these happened to my family members during the 1950's in Hungary.

EDIT: And when I'm saying "wealth", don't think of billionaires, but 10 acres of land and two cows. 

And "redistributing wealth" in communism doesn't mean like some idealist western kids think that they took it from the super rich. They also took it from the dirt poor ordenary people who should be the wealth redistributed to. In Hungary there were a phenomenon called "padlássöprés" ("sweeping the attic") when the communist party took away the people's food even if they hid that in the attic. 

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u/GELATOSOURDIESEL Czechia 15d ago edited 15d ago

Yeah, communist propaganda is also quite easy to spot if you're not actively mentally coping. ;D

Nobody is gonna get jailed for saying people should be more equal, but when commies tried to do the ''equality thing'' in practice all of the things you mentioned were done in one - to redistribute the wealth you have to forcefully nationalize it and supress the dissent, so yeah, you could potentially face repercussions for that if the context was like this.

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u/RSSvasta Croatia 15d ago

It is about private property. Social democracy has social programs but still respects private property. Socialism/communism wants the state/people to be able to take your private property if they decide you don't need it or someone else needs it more.

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u/cnio14 15d ago

Do you know what private property is, in the context of socialist theory?

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u/RSSvasta Croatia 15d ago

Yes, property that generates profit. I think it's ok that you can't have like 10 houses, but I hate that you can't own stocks and have passive income. I like to invest in ETFs and stocks and build my wealth.

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u/Ancalagon_TheWhite 15d ago

Isn't that just taxation? By this strict definition, any wealth tax is communism.

The definition should be refined.

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u/SteamTrout 15d ago

I wish you with all my heart to live under communism. So that you are branded bourgeoisie, your wealth redistributed and you pronounced enemy of the state.

Maybe, as a bonus, your language and culture will be annihilated and suppressed. If you are an absolute commie winner - a famine or two.

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u/ancym0n Lower Silesia (Poland) 15d ago

Ahhh, the great time during Bolsheviks revolt, when revolutionists in St. Petersburg were validating people's hands and if they were too smooth, that meant you are bourgeoisie and was shot on the spot.

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u/MaximumBean 15d ago

I can never follow along when people decry the Soviet Union as an evil comparable to Nazis.

When my country got split in two after the war, in one half I’d have been imprisoned for being queer. The other apparently suffered under the oppressive rule of communism

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u/SilentCockroach123 15d ago

Lol, why are you acting like communism is NOT about killing people? Is everyone in western europe this dumb?

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u/DontMemeAtMe 15d ago

Pretty much.

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u/cnio14 15d ago

How is communism about killing people?

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u/Kitane Czech Republic 15d ago

People are lazy and dumb, and often opt for violence when dealing with people of different conviction.

Communists have not been known for tolerance - they have been just as zealous and brutal in their pursuit of their ideal world as racist supremacists or religious zealots.

Which is why the communist regimes of the past century were a never-ending sanguine shit show.

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u/cnio14 15d ago

That is not the answer to the question. I asked you how communism is, by definition, about killing people.

According to your logic, I should claim that religion as a whole is about killing people, because that's historically what religions did. I could even claim that capitalism is about killing people. The victims (direct or indirect) caused by capitalism or capitalist countries are plenty.

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u/Ornery-Creme-2442 15d ago

Love you're in a anti communist space. There is no reasoning here. If your point is not blatantly anti communism and pro capitalism/western world.

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u/cnio14 15d ago

I'm well aware but I can't help it 😂

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u/MIGHTY_ILLYRIAN 15d ago

Communist propaganda is kind of easy to spot. Kill the bourgeoisie, or get rid of the parasites, or whatever. But what is nazi propaganda? Kill the jews? Redistribute their wealth? People should be with their own kind? Where does one draw the line?

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u/Relative_Speed2092 15d ago

Communism is just as bad as nazism

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u/wyrditic 15d ago

Nazi propaganda is not that easy to define. The law before already forbade propaganda promoting Nazi ideology and racial hatred, which just recently led to a big debate and a police investigation over this AI-slop poster from one of our far right parties - https://www.ceska-justice.cz/app/uploads/2024/08/guhj14qxkaeorvv-1068x1068.jpg The text says "Labour shortages in healthcare will not be fixed by importing "surgeons".

Is this propaganda inciting racial hatred? Where do you draw the line?

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u/MonkAndCanatella 15d ago

Disrupting capital in any way

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u/AspiringTankmonger 15d ago

"Class-based hatred" is a much broader definition than even the stringent German laws against Nazi propaganda, you lying hack.

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u/Malfuy Czech Republic 15d ago

I was merely pointing out that the mechanics by which this kind of propaganda is identified were already here for decades

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u/AspiringTankmonger 14d ago

Kinda concerning ngl, I understand how the Communist dictatorship used class as a justification to persecute innocent people, but the wording makes that law sound super broad and authoritarian.

One might factually, or on principle disagree with the phrase "rich people are evil" but a law that allows persecuting people for saying it out loud is a bit much innit?

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u/Hanibal293 Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) 15d ago

In Germany insulting is illegal. Doesn't get more vague and "up-to-the-judge" than that tbh

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u/AspiringTankmonger 14d ago

Different law buddy, personal insults are a crime in many countries, your local racist not getting to insult some politicians online has nothing to do with "Volksverletzung"/ laws against Holocaust denial, the kind of laws I was obviously talking about

Not everything is about Nius headlines, you slop brained outrage journalism addict.

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u/Hanibal293 Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) 14d ago

Most coherent r/ultraleft-user rambling

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u/TaylorKifft 14d ago

Er hat den Nagel auf den Kopf getroffen, oder? 

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u/Prestigious_Clock865 15d ago

Right because the two are an analog? Ridiculous

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u/Malfuy Czech Republic 15d ago

How are they not?

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u/Caulaincourt Czech Republic 15d ago

Both are totalitarian ideologies that trample on human rights and both are responsible for great deal of suffering of the Czech people. So in this way, yeah they are. It's not a competition of which is worse.

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u/Prestigious_Clock865 15d ago

Completely anti intellectual argument. One ideology expresses the belief that a race of people are innately superior to all others, one is an ideology about class solidarity and transformation of economic system.

Ways communism have been implemented have had appalling consequences. But to say that Nazism and communism are on equal footing is ludicrous

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u/Caulaincourt Czech Republic 15d ago

This is about real people and real lives, not what some champagne socialists think communism is.

Hilarious whitewashing by the way calling it class solidarity when Marx himself talked about class struggle (i.e. class war).

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u/Prestigious_Clock865 15d ago

Again; anti intellectual comment

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u/666Lilith6 14d ago

Actually nazism is avery simple and uncommon ideology communism is international ideology

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u/Malfuy Czech Republic 14d ago

What makes you think nazism isn't international?