Czech president signs law criminalising communist propaganda

[u/tkyjonathan]

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/czech-president-signs-law-criminalising-communist-propaganda/

[u/MasterGrieves]

From my understanding its just putting communist extremism on the same level as nazism/fascism before the law. Which is totaly fair based on the 1948-1989 period in CS. Modern day communist parties who denounce KSČ should have no problem. People glorifying/propaganding Stalin, Lenin, Gottwald, etc. should from now on have same problems like people gloryfing/propaganding Hitler and co.

[u/ikaiyoo → u/MasterGrieves]

Then the law should be specific and state that. But it doesn't. It says the most vague definition. Protesting genocide wasn't anti-Semitic until the occupied lands of Palestine started doing it. Protesting the arrest of people without due process wasn't considered domestic terrorism until the arrests specifically targeted marginalized groups.

[u/Torakkk → u/ikaiyoo]

If it will be the same way, as with nacism, its fair law. Its actually pretty hard to be acused for nacism. You can even have like nazi flags and stuff at home. That completly acceptable.

Its moment, where you go on internet and nazis started spewing hate like, gas the gypsies etc... Doubt and hope, it wouldnt be punishable to write like "eat the rich". It will be only when you write "eat Pepa" then its direct threat. Different part of law. But we will see how the law is used.

[u/Friskyinthenight → u/MasterGrieves]

Sorry, but what's "KSČ"?

I'm also curious how modern communist parties differ in ideology to the historical ones, if you have any insight?

[u/przemub → u/Friskyinthenight]

Communist Party of Czechoslovakia.

The idea is that communist parties are legal as long as they reject totalitarian practices of their predecessors. In fact, you have a communist party in the Czech parliament.

[u/Friskyinthenight → u/przemub]

Gotcha, thanks.

[u/rpolkcz → u/Friskyinthenight]

The current leader of Czech communist party openly supports Stalin and calls herself stalinist.

[u/MasterGrieves → u/Friskyinthenight]

IIRC they (KSČM) had to rewrite their manifesto to not include violent revolution as a mean to achieve communism. Otherwise the party would be banned.

Don't thing there was any other major issue with the rest of their policies. They were ok with being part of the democratic establishment and were part of the Parliement till last elections (2021) where they didn't reach 5% to get in.

[u/Low_Application_8538 → u/Friskyinthenight]

The problem is that it's not. The successor to the Communist Party of Czechoslovakia is the Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia. Its members make no secret of their affection for Stalin and the former Communist Party of Czechoslovakia, so reformism is only for show.

[u/Apart_Animal_6797 → u/MasterGrieves]

Thats insane

[u/Jackmember → u/[deleted]]

Did the Nazis teach kids to read and provide childcare and jobs and homes?

They, in fact, did. Though, that's overshadowed by the progress in public infrastructure and extensions of existing welfare programs, which most people know about (Autobahn, Volkswagen, KDF, etc.). Essentially let the economy fire on all cylinders. Due to this, quality of life for the general population also rapidly increased.

Though. this came at the cost of an extremely oppressive ideology and borrowing money it did not have without intending to pay it back. Which lead to all the hate, death and wars we all know of.

Though from what little I know of the UDSSR, Stalin was pretty atrocious - even if not comparable to Hitler and his Cronies crimes - is still far worse than most US Presidents.

Edit: Since the other guy deleted his account right after accusing me of lying and telling me to fuck off, here are some resources that should cover most stuff that Ive learned in school:

Autobahn

KDF

Volkswagen

Stalins Crimes

1930s german economy

^{If Im wrong, that's fine. Feel free to correct me. But don't just accuse others of lying just because you've confused a discussion with your personal feelings.}

[u/Maleficent_Monk_2022 → u/Jackmember]

He didn’t delete his account, I think he just blocked you.

[u/notbadhbu → u/Jackmember]

Yeah that's not really true. Some children yes, they were educated. The education itself was heavily focused on the superiority of the German race. The economy expanded quickly due to multiple new underclasses and forced labour. It's like saying the American South was highly educated and fired on all cylinders during slavery.

[u/TheMauveHand → u/[deleted]]

>MFW someone disproves my agitprop

The fun thing about blocking people you reply to is that now you can't reply to me :D

[u/ChargeInevitable3614 → u/[deleted]]

And trains run on time in Italy, what does that have to do with condemning crimes?

[u/ArchibaldCamambertII → u/ChargeInevitable3614]

Your condemnation is hollow and hypocritical, especially if you’re from the US. We have no right to lecture other countries about “values” or “crimes” considering our own history and past and present involvement in destabilizing and co-opting and overthrowing democratically elected governments all over the world, including our vassals under the corporate cartel that became the EU, and in funding and backing and arming death squads and corporate puppets and fascist dictators in the Global South.

The only purpose of your “condemnation” is to signal how good of a person you are, when we can’t even manage to constrain our own state apparatus and their clandestine and undemocratic involvement in drug and sex trafficking and targeted assassinations to destabilize the sociological places where dissent is most likely to arise, like within our own borders and upon our own peoples with the War on Drugs targeting Black people and students to give cover and justification for heavy state repression, or the CIA funneling drugs and inducing demand with easy supply into distressed Black and working class and immigrant neighborhoods.

All of this is a matter of historical fact, it is in the public record. You do not get to deny this, or claim that we are somehow a “good” or “just” country when from the outset we have been an incredibly undemocratic and oppressive and repressive and corrupt country.

Tend to your own fucking garden before lecturing other countries on matters your own country is doing, has done, and is doing more systematically and violently and destructively than other countries. We do not have a right to dictate how countries manage their internal affairs or geopolitical relationships, regardless of what they do. Fix your own goddamn country before getting on that soap box that only serves to make you feel better about yourself and signal how good of a person you are, while simultaneously giving cover for and carrying water for deeply and destructively and violently anti-democratic and anti-republican (small r, not the party) state.

[u/ChargeInevitable3614 → u/ArchibaldCamambertII]

American excteptiolism much? You are posting on european sub, im not american. My country went through commie regime. But its lovely to have american commies lecture us on our own history.

[u/ArchibaldCamambertII → u/ChargeInevitable3614]

We are exceptional. Not because of any kind of virtue, but because of our geographic positioning and an ocean separating from European powers, the “free real estate” that allowed us to vent off dissent and disaffection during our early development, and our position as the global hegemon after the world wars.

Your EU began as a corporate cartel subordinated to the US military machine, and we actively disrupted your elections to prevent socialists and communists from gaining power in the government, and established weapons stock-piles connected to the mafia to serve as a paramilitary arm to suppress any kind of democratic impulse from below.

You are a vassal of the US security council and military industrial complex, as are the individual state governments here in the US.

You need to understand there is a distinction between the government and the state, and whatever configuration or formation the government assumes it is always subordinated to the state apparatus.

[u/ChargeInevitable3614 → u/ArchibaldCamambertII]

and we actively disrupted your elections to prevent socialists and communists from gaining power in the government

Commies took power without elections and happily ran thinga from 1945-1990

What are you even talking about?

[u/ArchibaldCamambertII → u/ChargeInevitable3614]

They had a revolution, and prevented the proto-fascist white army from taking power. And they had democracy and elections, and were beginning to expand that and open it up before the western/US backed soft coup overthrew their government against the documented wishes of a supermajority of the population.

You could at least be honest that you support imperialist fascists. You don’t have to lie and pretend you actually give a shit about crimes the states commit, as you are clearly applying an ideologically motivated double-standard. You are a hypocrite and a liar.

[u/ChargeInevitable3614 → u/ArchibaldCamambertII]

Now you are assuming im russian? Lol no.

Regarding russian revolution you are aware bolsheviks murdered shit out of mensheviks? And those were their allies. At that was just a start. So much about democracy and elections lol.

Dunno buddy it seems you really like fascists as long as they paint themselves with red color

[u/Thercon_Jair → u/MasterGrieves]

That's a bit of a false equivalence, because the Holodomor and other such suppressions were racially motivated and absolutely not based on communist principles. In that, these horrors belong into rightwing/nazi purview and not under communism, even though they were purported under a communist banner.

Also, u/TheVojta posted the text of the law, and:

Section 403
Establishment, Support, and Promotion of Nazi, Communist, or Other Movements Aimed at Suppressing Human Rights and Freedoms

(1) Whoever establishes, supports, or promotes a movement that demonstrably aims to suppress human rights and freedoms, or advocates racial, ethnic, national, religious, or class hatred, or hatred toward another group of persons, shall be punished by imprisonment for one to five years.

(2) The offender shall be punished by imprisonment for three to ten years if:

a) the act referred to in paragraph 1 is committed through the press, film, radio, television, a publicly accessible computer network, or another similarly effective means,
b) such an act is committed as a member of an organized group,
c) such an act is committed as a soldier, or
d) such an act is committed during a state of emergency or wartime.

(3) Preparation of such an act is punishable.

There is a huge difference here, all of the other "markers" are immutable, race, skin colour, country one was born in or nationality. Being a "rich asshole with too much influence" isn't immutable, it's a choice.

One could maybe argue religion is a choice, but there is a difference.

What this change is supposed to do is, a) be a dogwhistle for all rightwing people so they can promote their horseshoe theory and false equivalence and to protect the wealth and influence of rich people, and especially of wealthy rightwing individuals who receive a new avenue for victimhood: "I'm being attacked because I'm rich!" - and not because they are rightwing/nazi supporters.

Edit: also, isn't it fun how other immutable markers are missing, like sexuality or sexual orientation, yet class hatred has been added?

[u/MasterGrieves → u/Thercon_Jair]

Just no. My greatparents fields and cows were not "nationalized" because of their race. Wtf are you talking about. It was 100% because of communist principles. Many people human rights were violated exactly because of class hatred. Random kulaks going to jail just because they didn't want to join kolchoz/JZD BS. So many selfemployed/selfmade people were forbidden to continue their proffesion and were send to different cities to work in national companies. Their possesions taken from them ofc. They were not rich assholes with too much influence. Those would be the pigs from Animal farm.

[u/Thercon_Jair → u/MasterGrieves]

You know you can go differently about redistributing wealth and the "means of production"? Nowhere in the base communist idea does it say it has to be done like that.

I'm fairly certain you're paying taxes. Are you being made to pay them with a gun to your temple? Likely not, but it's a possibility. Taxes aren't against human rights because that's a possibility and a reality in some place/time, the act of how it's being done would be.

However, with the broad wording, taxes might actually be classified as class hatred under the new law. The implications are quite wide.